TheKilltech Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 (edited) normally i'm not much annoyed by the typical forum whining (with their usual doom & gloop + "i quit" extortion attempts) that comes with every change in every game that has a forum. yeah, that's the nature of forums. but with 5.0 gearing change i see some old veterans clinging to a (computer-) stone age gameplay system that prevents the game from evolving. and that clinging to a past long gone is eventually bad for everyone. seriously, why do players focus so much on grinding gear as their main activity? don't they know that playing games can actually be fun out of itself? how can repeating/grinding through content that plays the same every single time just to get stats so one can play the next higher 'difficulty' which is mostly the very same gameplay with increased mob stats to undo the gear progression previously made be considered... fun? how much conditioning have MMORPGs inflicted onto these player that they cannot break free from it? that (skinner box) system may have worked for the very first online games where technical and financial limitations didn't allow for much more. but today? and what's all the fuzz about having no new OPS if all they they are is just upsacled FPs. i mean just scale down mob stats appropriately and you could play them with 4 players as FPs. the gameplay would stay nearly the same with the biggest change being a better FPS rate. the number of player just doesn't feel meaningful in any way. but worst of all their replay value is next to null once you figured out the mechanics (or googled it to begin with to save yourself being kicked by a vet). maybe it's because i am from a different generation of gamers that didn't play these first online games and i got too used to the pure entertainment value of the raw gameplay of modern games that i so despise the concept that i need a reward for everything i do in order to do it because the core MMORPG gameplay itself is just... not fun. but with all the uproar on the forums with every change made i fear the dev are being too distracted to be really able to focus on that most fundamental problem. without it fixed i don't see how new generations of gamers can be won over to play this genre if they have experienced how fun games (on their own without counting social elements) can be? without adapting to these new players the games of old cannot last. yet with the uprisings in 5.0 i saw that the rigid combat system can be tweaked to be somewhat interesting. still far from perfect but it's a start. now imagine the devs iterating on this with constant feedback. imagine combat encounters becoming more dynamic and less repetitive/predictable and therefore more immersive such that even fighting a lot of trash will be enjoyable (regardless of rewards). yeah, i find the current skipping of trash is the blatant depiction of how broken MMORPG gameplay is! and perhaps even imagine this game bringing back a very old element of tabletop RPGs: the "dungeon master". the person responsible for making every run onto a dungeon a unique experience (by partially controlling mobs/environment placements and their reactions to player actions) may sound hard to implement but there is already one game that did just that: Left4Dead. yes, to shame all the MMORPGs it was a shooter that managed to revive this core idea of RPGs and it had incredible success with it. imagine how OPs, FPs and perhaps even the open world could be fun if we had that. a system, where all your small actions would suddenly matter - not story wise, but through gameplay (e.g. killing that black sun boss for loot might have been a bad idea with all the goons that are now constantly sent after you.. . oh and skipping all the mobs in the last FP run was perhaps also not so wise with the final boss managing to call upon them for help. hmpf) Edited December 26, 2016 by TheKilltech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forren-Midosea Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I havent read much but if you say that gambling is evolving.... you are seriously mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasStarWars Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) normally i'm not much annoyed by the typical forum whining (with their usual doom & gloop + "i quit" extortion attempts) that comes with every change in every game that has a forum. yeah, that's the nature of forums. but with 5.0 gearing change i see some old veterans clinging to a (computer-) stone age gameplay system that prevents the game from evolving. and that clinging to a past long gone is eventually bad for everyone. seriously, why do players focus so much on grinding gear as their main activity? don't they know that playing games can actually be fun out of itself? how can repeating/grinding through content that plays the same every single time just to get stats so one can play the next higher 'difficulty' which is mostly the very same gameplay with increased mob stats to undo the gear progression previously made be considered... fun? how much conditioning have MMORPGs inflicted onto these player that they cannot break free from it? that (skinner box) system may have worked for the very first online games where technical and financial limitations didn't allow for much more. but today? and what's all the fuzz about having no new OPS if all they they are is just upsacled FPs. i mean just scale down mob stats appropriately and you could play them with 4 players as FPs. the gameplay would stay nearly the same with the biggest change being a better FPS rate. the number of player just doesn't feel meaningful in any way. but worst of all their replay value is next to null once you figured out the mechanics (or googled it to begin with to save yourself being kicked by a vet). maybe it's because i am from a different generation of gamers that didn't play these first online games and i got too used to the pure entertainment value of the raw gameplay of modern games that i so despise the concept that i need a reward for everything i do in order to do it because the core MMORPG gameplay itself is just... not fun. but with all the uproar on the forums with every change made i fear the dev are being too distracted to be really able to focus on that most fundamental problem. without it fixed i don't see how new generations of gamers can be won over to play this genre if they have experienced how fun games (on their own without counting social elements) can be? without adapting to these new players the games of old cannot last. yet with the uprisings in 5.0 i saw that the rigid combat system can be tweaked to be somewhat interesting. still far from perfect but it's a start. now imagine the devs iterating on this with constant feedback. imagine combat encounters becoming more dynamic and less repetitive/predictable and therefore more immersive such that even fighting a lot of trash will be enjoyable (regardless of rewards). yeah, i find the current skipping of trash is the blatant depiction of how broken MMORPG gameplay is! and perhaps even imagine this game bringing back a very old element of tabletop RPGs: the "dungeon master". the person responsible for making every run onto a dungeon a unique experience (by partially controlling mobs/environment placements and their reactions to player actions) may sound hard to implement but there is already one game that did just that: Left4Dead. yes, to shame all the MMORPGs it was a shooter that managed to revive this core idea of RPGs and it had incredible success with it. imagine how OPs, FPs and perhaps even the open world could be fun if we had that. a system, where all your small actions would suddenly matter - not story wise, but through gameplay (e.g. killing that black sun boss for loot might have been a bad idea with all the goons that are now constantly sent after you.. . oh and skipping all the mobs in the last FP run was perhaps also not so wise with the final boss managing to call upon them for help. hmpf) who are you to decide what is fun and what is not? for everyone in the game? Edited December 26, 2016 by ThomasStarWars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahbal Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Oh great another one of these threads. Does no one on the defence side realise that getting higher level gear, to do higher level ops with your guild is the best experience in this game? Doing easy content with a small team is repetitive and stale, even the first time (fps, uprisings). Doing harder ops is fun as the completetion itself is very rewarding. Times that bydoing it with a large group of friends/guildes...and it is easy to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweessies Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 normally i'm not much annoyed by the typical forum whining (with their usual doom & gloop + "i quit" extortion attempts) that comes with every change in every game that has a forum. yeah, that's the nature of forums. but with 5.0 gearing change i see some old veterans clinging to a (computer-) stone age gameplay system that prevents the game from evolving. and that clinging to a past long gone is eventually bad for everyone. seriously, why do players focus so much on grinding gear as their main activity? don't they know that playing games can actually be fun out of itself? how can repeating/grinding through content that plays the same every single time just to get stats so one can play the next higher 'difficulty' which is mostly the very same gameplay with increased mob stats to undo the gear progression previously made be considered... fun? how much conditioning have MMORPGs inflicted onto these player that they cannot break free from it? that (skinner box) system may have worked for the very first online games where technical and financial limitations didn't allow for much more. but today? and what's all the fuzz about having no new OPS if all they they are is just upsacled FPs. i mean just scale down mob stats appropriately and you could play them with 4 players as FPs. the gameplay would stay nearly the same with the biggest change being a better FPS rate. the number of player just doesn't feel meaningful in any way. but worst of all their replay value is next to null once you figured out the mechanics (or googled it to begin with to save yourself being kicked by a vet). maybe it's because i am from a different generation of gamers that didn't play these first online games and i got too used to the pure entertainment value of the raw gameplay of modern games that i so despise the concept that i need a reward for everything i do in order to do it because the core MMORPG gameplay itself is just... not fun. but with all the uproar on the forums with every change made i fear the dev are being too distracted to be really able to focus on that most fundamental problem. without it fixed i don't see how new generations of gamers can be won over to play this genre if they have experienced how fun games (on their own without counting social elements) can be? without adapting to these new players the games of old cannot last. yet with the uprisings in 5.0 i saw that the rigid combat system can be tweaked to be somewhat interesting. still far from perfect but it's a start. now imagine the devs iterating on this with constant feedback. imagine combat encounters becoming more dynamic and less repetitive/predictable and therefore more immersive such that even fighting a lot of trash will be enjoyable (regardless of rewards). yeah, i find the current skipping of trash is the blatant depiction of how broken MMORPG gameplay is! and perhaps even imagine this game bringing back a very old element of tabletop RPGs: the "dungeon master". the person responsible for making every run onto a dungeon a unique experience (by partially controlling mobs/environment placements and their reactions to player actions) may sound hard to implement but there is already one game that did just that: Left4Dead. yes, to shame all the MMORPGs it was a shooter that managed to revive this core idea of RPGs and it had incredible success with it. imagine how OPs, FPs and perhaps even the open world could be fun if we had that. a system, where all your small actions would suddenly matter - not story wise, but through gameplay (e.g. killing that black sun boss for loot might have been a bad idea with all the goons that are now constantly sent after you.. . oh and skipping all the mobs in the last FP run was perhaps also not so wise with the final boss managing to call upon them for help. hmpf) This may be the single most impressive white knight posting ever. Poorly reasoned, but damn is the wall of text and the level of rationalization impressive. Somehow people who want to be able to gear, so they can return to the activities they like are WRONG and EA along with it's white knights are RIGHT. We should all be grateful to pay monthly for the right to hit the disintegrate button over and over. Gear is for the weak, or old people who don't love CHANGE. Don't worry too much little white knight, you won't have most of us to be triggered by for very long. We're all unsubbing and leaving until the corporate overlords at EA either give up or get booted out for devaluing the Star Wars IP with this garbage-fest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhedzaban Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Oh great another one of these threads. Does no one on the defence side realise that getting higher level gear, to do higher level ops with your guild is the best experience in this game? Doing easy content with a small team is repetitive and stale, even the first time (fps, uprisings). Doing harder ops is fun as the completetion itself is very rewarding. Times that bydoing it with a large group of friends/guildes...and it is easy to understand. Another one of these threads? Is that a joke? I can count on one hand the number of 'these threads'. Would you like to compare that to the number of whine threads? I've played since this game launched and have never once done a high level op with a guild, so according to you I'm doing it wrong and I should be miserable. Progression raiding is becoming passe, fewer people have the time or patience for it now. Wow gets away with it purely through high numbers of players, but for your average mmo like swtor ops is a money loss becuase casuals won't touch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKilltech Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) I havent read much but if you say that gambling is evolving.... you are seriously mistaken. what do you need the set bonus so desperately for that you need to gamble for it? you are so focused on getting purples that you are unable to realize that you don't really need them. the only players that may have a legitimate concern with it are the ranked PvPers. because this is the only case where even the slightest difference in nominal power (e.g. stats) between same skilled players can be the difference between win or loss and yeah, there it sucks having RNG meddling. but for everyone else it's just a luxury that isn't needed. if you complain and insist that you must grind it anyway then you have been conditioned into a addiction that you are simply unable to break free from. gearing has been made unimportant. THAT'S the major change. because of this the RNG for top gear hardly matters anymore as putting a lot of time investment into grinding gives you only a marginal advantage. how about you stop grinding for gear and start complaining about old content having too little replay value without rewards instead? Edited December 26, 2016 by TheKilltech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewlmenow Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) normally i'm not much annoyed by the typical forum whining (with their usual doom & gloop + "i quit" extortion attempts) that comes with every change in every game that has a forum. yeah, that's the nature of forums. but with 5.0 gearing change i see some old veterans clinging to a (computer-) stone age gameplay system that prevents the game from evolving. and that clinging to a past long gone is eventually bad for everyone. seriously, why do players focus so much on grinding gear as their main activity? don't they know that playing games can actually be fun out of itself? how can repeating/grinding through content that plays the same every single time just to get stats so one can play the next higher 'difficulty' which is mostly the very same gameplay with increased mob stats to undo the gear progression previously made be considered... fun? how much conditioning have MMORPGs inflicted onto these player that they cannot break free from it? that (skinner box) system may have worked for the very first online games where technical and financial limitations didn't allow for much more. but today? and what's all the fuzz about having no new OPS if all they they are is just upsacled FPs. i mean just scale down mob stats appropriately and you could play them with 4 players as FPs. the gameplay would stay nearly the same with the biggest change being a better FPS rate. the number of player just doesn't feel meaningful in any way. but worst of all their replay value is next to null once you figured out the mechanics (or googled it to begin with to save yourself being kicked by a vet). maybe it's because i am from a different generation of gamers that didn't play these first online games and i got too used to the pure entertainment value of the raw gameplay of modern games that i so despise the concept that i need a reward for everything i do in order to do it because the core MMORPG gameplay itself is just... not fun. but with all the uproar on the forums with every change made i fear the dev are being too distracted to be really able to focus on that most fundamental problem. without it fixed i don't see how new generations of gamers can be won over to play this genre if they have experienced how fun games (on their own without counting social elements) can be? without adapting to these new players the games of old cannot last. yet with the uprisings in 5.0 i saw that the rigid combat system can be tweaked to be somewhat interesting. still far from perfect but it's a start. now imagine the devs iterating on this with constant feedback. imagine combat encounters becoming more dynamic and less repetitive/predictable and therefore more immersive such that even fighting a lot of trash will be enjoyable (regardless of rewards). yeah, i find the current skipping of trash is the blatant depiction of how broken MMORPG gameplay is! and perhaps even imagine this game bringing back a very old element of tabletop RPGs: the "dungeon master". the person responsible for making every run onto a dungeon a unique experience (by partially controlling mobs/environment placements and their reactions to player actions) may sound hard to implement but there is already one game that did just that: Left4Dead. yes, to shame all the MMORPGs it was a shooter that managed to revive this core idea of RPGs and it had incredible success with it. imagine how OPs, FPs and perhaps even the open world could be fun if we had that. a system, where all your small actions would suddenly matter - not story wise, but through gameplay (e.g. killing that black sun boss for loot might have been a bad idea with all the goons that are now constantly sent after you.. . oh and skipping all the mobs in the last FP run was perhaps also not so wise with the final boss managing to call upon them for help. hmpf) Op says gameplay is fun itself but then goes to call operations just upscaled flashpoints with no replay value. I'll give it a 2/10 for the rambling, but I feel like I'm being too generous. Edited December 26, 2016 by Dewlmenow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKilltech Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Does no one on the defence side realise that getting higher level gear, to do higher level ops with your guild is the best experience in this game? Doing easy content with a small team is repetitive and stale, even the first time (fps, uprisings). Doing harder ops is fun as the completetion itself is very rewarding. Times that bydoing it with a large group of friends/guildes...and it is easy to understand. a devastating judgement about this game... and actually most MMORPGs. but true. however it turns out most players don't actively play in guilds. and this is why you forget to see that this concept just seems to make less and less money in the entire industry (if it nets positive at all). it's outdated and doesn't captivate younger players. BW turning away from it makes it obvious that they don't see a future in this direction. i think that with KOTFE/ET they even learned that doing single player story is way more profitable. sorry, but i think the gameplay you know seems to be dying out throughout all the games. it just seems it has a far too small audience. Edited December 26, 2016 by TheKilltech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowermanx Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 why do players focus so much on grinding gear as their main activity? Not meaning to be rude, but your wall of text is entirely summed up with this question, there was honestly no reason to go any further than this, because the answer to this negates any and all hypothesis you may want to come up with as to what is or isn't a good system. While its somewhat easy to explain problems with people's perceptions, at the end of the day, those perceptions wont be changed on any forums and they will either pay and play or walk away, making that task just as futile as the first. I'll leave you with the simplest way I can explain it. These games fundamentally work on the carrot on the stick approach to keep people interested enough to keep coming back for more. Now, when you remove that carrot and replace it with a box with a question mark on the side of, some people go nope, its not a carrot, in fact I don't know what it is I'm chasing after anymore, then question why they are here in the first place, then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePasserby Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Oh don't strain yourself too much over your white knighting, OP. People are breaking free ... by unsubbing. In droves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Kaitou-Kid Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Oh great another one of these threads. Does no one on the defence side realise that getting higher level gear, to do higher level ops with your guild is the best experience in this game? Doing easy content with a small team is repetitive and stale, even the first time (fps, uprisings). Doing harder ops is fun as the completetion itself is very rewarding. Times that bydoing it with a large group of friends/guildes...and it is easy to understand. I would rather do a FP/Uprising than an Operation at this point. I've completed every Op in the game at this point (minus Toborro's Courtyard, I think) and I still don't see it the way you do. Some of those runs came after multiple nightmarish attempts. Without a dedicated guild/friends, Operations are a crapshoot and an absolute nightmare when they fall apart. They take forever to get together and even longer to complete, so getting to X boss only for one person to get pissed off and quit is just annoying. I'm not saying you can't have fun with operations, I can see why some people would find it fun, but it's definitely not the best experience in the game for everybody. Some people, sure, but certainly not everybody and not enough to make it a consensus. There are legitimate reasons to dislike playing operations in this game, reasons beyond just "there hasn't been a new one in 2 years." For the record, I still think they should make new ops and I disagree with the OP's assertion that ops are just scaled up FPs. That's way off the mark in my opinion. But not everybody actually enjoys playing ops or getting gear through ops to play more ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Little to do with conditioning—everyone has their own opinion on what's enjoyable, challenging, rewarding and fun. Not understanding another's choice doesn't mean that person is wrong, or 'conditioned'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKilltech Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 what is the meaning of "white knight"? having the opinion that the core gameplay of this game (and actually all other MMORPGs i know) is fundamentally dull, repetitive and not fun doesn't normally get labeled as such. i haven't struggled with any other game so much as with this one (other MMORPGs i was unable to stand for more then a few minutes). if it wasn't for BW and their storytelling (which isn't at it's best here, yet still decent) i wouldn't dared to touch such a... meh but yeah, with their change of direction they got new players in like me that can't find fun in most of the aspects of MMORPGs. naturally i therefore don't think i'll find much in common with old veterans of the genre. and beware: BW is aiming to reach out to those other audiences. should they succeed there will be a lot of change to swallow for veterans i fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forren-Midosea Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) what do you need the set bonus so desperately for that you need to gamble for it? you are so focused on getting purples that you are unable to realize that you don't really need them. the only players that may have a legitimate concern with it are the ranked PvPers. because this is the only case where even the slightest difference in nominal power (e.g. stats) between same skilled players can be the difference between win or loss and yeah, there it sucks having RNG meddling. but for everyone else it's just a luxury that isn't needed. if you complain and insist that you must grind it anyway then you have been conditioned into a addiction that you are simply unable to break free from. gearing has been made unimportant. THAT'S the major change. because of this the RNG for top gear hardly matters anymore as putting a lot of time investment into grinding gives you only a marginal advantage. how about you stop grinding for gear and start complaining about old content having too little replay value without rewards instead? Again havent read much but please be so kind and go full team and try to do hard mode operation in full 228 gear. green gear that you get from packs You should augment it but you wont last one minute in first fight. You are saying BS. ONE BIG BS. This game was based on gear from very first day. Gear gives you heal, tankness, aggro, dps. EVERYTHING. Edited December 26, 2016 by Forren-Midosea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radzkie Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Breaking conditioning lmfao Tldr of the OP: I dont think somethings fun, you shouldnt think its fun either ok Edited December 26, 2016 by Radzkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizzlestick Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 how can repeating/grinding through content that plays the same every single time just to get stats so one can play the next higher 'difficulty' which is mostly the very same gameplay with increased mob stats to undo the gear progression previously made be considered... fun? how much conditioning have MMORPGs inflicted onto these player that they cannot break free from it? I hate to break it to you, but MMORPGs did not start this trend as you are implying. Diablo... Borderlands... You will find plenty of game genres that have, do, and will continue to do this. Probably because some people do in fact find it fun to grind for better loot. Not everyone has the same definition of fun as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Demanding a trinity setup, resisting the existence of entry level hardcore content, attempting to keep high end gear inside hardcore content....all of these things could be seen as detrimental to the game, especially in the current casual dominated market. However, gearing USING hardcore content, the carrot so to speak, is not one of those things that hurt the game IMO...I think that is one aspect of hardcore gaming that should remain in place...but perhaps could be SUPPLEMENTED by alternate means to gain the gear. Whether that be crafting, the GC system....anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundragon Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Oh don't strain yourself too much over your white knighting, OP. People are breaking free ... by unsubbing. In droves. If that were even remotely true, the development team would be making radical changes. What we see are small changes but RNG is still here to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 the only players that may have a legitimate concern with it are the ranked PvPers. because this is the only case where even the slightest difference in nominal power (e.g. stats) between same skilled players can be the difference between win or loss and yeah, there it sucks having RNG meddling. but for everyone else it's just a luxury that isn't needed. if you complain and insist that you must grind it anyway then you have been conditioned into a addiction that you are simply unable to break free from. gearing has been made unimportant. THAT'S the major change. because of this the RNG for top gear hardly matters anymore as putting a lot of time investment into grinding gives you only a marginal advantage. You seem to miss the point of the protest. We don't want the gear to have the gear. We want the gear to have the tools to do the content we want to do. Some of the Ops bosses have DPS checks you can't meet without it unless you're one of the top 0.1% of top end raiders. Most of us don't have machines or connections that will even allow that. (I usually play with 100ms ping. I don't want the gear to have the gear. I want the gear so I can go back to doing what I was doing a month ago. My sub is up in Feb. I purchased ESO yesterday. I am far from the only person with a sub running out or that is getting other games. If the devs don't get it together and provide what their paying customers want, they aren't going to have sufficient customers for EA to justify the investment to the shareholders. BW has already failed in their promise that the new system would keep people subbed longer and playing more. How long until EA decides enough is enough or pulls the plug to appease the share holders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirana Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 The issue is twofold, really more, but I'll throw out the more obvious ones. * The unforgiving gear grind, which was recently proven flawed by someone hitting CP rank 300 and having only average gear to show for it. The upcoming changes only create an additional grind. * The only new content are Story chapters that can be finished in a few hours, and short watered down HM's, known as Uprisings, they offer little to no challenge. So what we're left with is the same content we've been running for two years plus. Whether it's for Conquest, DvL or the CP grind, it's recycled content. People are frustrated, and quite simply bored. So they're venting and/or moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Demanding a trinity setup, resisting the existence of entry level hardcore content, attempting to keep high end gear inside hardcore content....all of these things could be seen as detrimental to the game, especially in the current casual dominated market. However, gearing USING hardcore content, the carrot so to speak, is not one of those things that hurt the game IMO...I think that is one aspect of hardcore gaming that should remain in place...but perhaps could be SUPPLEMENTED by alternate means to gain the gear. Whether that be crafting, the GC system....anything. I actually agree. The GC system is fine as a supplement to give people a chance at gear they wouldn't get since they don't do the end game content. And if BW was really wanting to make crafting relevant, you'd be able to craft any piece of gear in the game. But they aren't so you can't. They've made a bunch of bad decisions, the RNG end game gearing is just the latest and last for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 normally i'm not much annoyed by the typical forum whining (with their usual doom & gloop + "i quit" extortion attempts) that comes with every change in every game that has a forum. yeah, that's the nature of forums. but with 5.0 gearing change i see some old veterans clinging to a (computer-) stone age gameplay system that prevents the game from evolving. and that clinging to a past long gone is eventually bad for everyone. seriously, why do players focus so much on grinding gear as their main activity? don't they know that playing games can actually be fun out of itself? how can repeating/grinding through content that plays the same every single time just to get stats so one can play the next higher 'difficulty' which is mostly the very same gameplay with increased mob stats to undo the gear progression previously made be considered... fun? how much conditioning have MMORPGs inflicted onto these player that they cannot break free from it? that (skinner box) system may have worked for the very first online games where technical and financial limitations didn't allow for much more. but today? and what's all the fuzz about having no new OPS if all they they are is just upsacled FPs. i mean just scale down mob stats appropriately and you could play them with 4 players as FPs. the gameplay would stay nearly the same with the biggest change being a better FPS rate. the number of player just doesn't feel meaningful in any way. but worst of all their replay value is next to null once you figured out the mechanics (or googled it to begin with to save yourself being kicked by a vet). maybe it's because i am from a different generation of gamers that didn't play these first online games and i got too used to the pure entertainment value of the raw gameplay of modern games that i so despise the concept that i need a reward for everything i do in order to do it because the core MMORPG gameplay itself is just... not fun. but with all the uproar on the forums with every change made i fear the dev are being too distracted to be really able to focus on that most fundamental problem. without it fixed i don't see how new generations of gamers can be won over to play this genre if they have experienced how fun games (on their own without counting social elements) can be? without adapting to these new players the games of old cannot last. yet with the uprisings in 5.0 i saw that the rigid combat system can be tweaked to be somewhat interesting. still far from perfect but it's a start. now imagine the devs iterating on this with constant feedback. imagine combat encounters becoming more dynamic and less repetitive/predictable and therefore more immersive such that even fighting a lot of trash will be enjoyable (regardless of rewards). yeah, i find the current skipping of trash is the blatant depiction of how broken MMORPG gameplay is! and perhaps even imagine this game bringing back a very old element of tabletop RPGs: the "dungeon master". the person responsible for making every run onto a dungeon a unique experience (by partially controlling mobs/environment placements and their reactions to player actions) may sound hard to implement but there is already one game that did just that: Left4Dead. yes, to shame all the MMORPGs it was a shooter that managed to revive this core idea of RPGs and it had incredible success with it. imagine how OPs, FPs and perhaps even the open world could be fun if we had that. a system, where all your small actions would suddenly matter - not story wise, but through gameplay (e.g. killing that black sun boss for loot might have been a bad idea with all the goons that are now constantly sent after you.. . oh and skipping all the mobs in the last FP run was perhaps also not so wise with the final boss managing to call upon them for help. hmpf) You've obviously never been a part of a progression raid team so you don't know what you don't know. That's all I have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePasserby Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 If that were even remotely true, the development team would be making radical changes. What we see are small changes but RNG is still here to stay. You're assuming that Bioware developers actually know what they are doing. How cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I havent read much but if you say that gambling is evolving.... you are seriously mistaken. Well put lol. The denial is comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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