CrazyOldMystic Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Truthfully a heal buff on some spec choices and a secondary shield with reflect. Other then that commandos/mercs are exactly the same way they always have been. Except we are missing four abilities between the two adv classes. Electro net still has the same cool down, our damage is still the same, so aside from the over kill in extra heals and a secondary shield. What exactly are you guys complaining about? Other then making bs threads which right now number around what is it 7 threads in the pvp section complaining about mercs/commandos. Do you even realize what has actually changed on this class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bob- Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Trump is President elect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuuu Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 (edited) what lil balance there still was in warzones is gone that is the really simple explanation on what happen. Merc gona get nerfed if one is go by what BW does, after they buff things... the Merc self healing is 2x better then the juggs self healing not to mention they have 2 skills that does this, + there own base healing. if this isnt nerfed on them I Will be shocked, there reflect is also broke so is sins it ignores things with "immune" tag on it and damages those "immune" things with reflect Edited December 24, 2016 by Kyuuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 what lil balance there still was in warzones is gone that is the really simple explanation on what happen. Merc gona get nerfed if one is go by what BW does, after they buff things... the Merc self healing is 2x better then the juggs self healing not to mention they have 2 skills that does this, + there own base healing. if this isnt nerfed on them I Will be shocked, there reflect is also broke so is sins it ignores things with "immune" tag on it and damages those "immune" things with reflect Nah, i suppose they'll nerf their damage with the big hammer and make him another troll class like conc op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Nah, i suppose they'll nerf their damage with the big hammer and make him another troll class like conc op. Honestly, I suspect that Arsenal will see damage nerfs and there will be a defense nerf attacking one or more of their new cooldowns/utilities. BTW - That's just a guess, I'm not advocating for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 I do not disagree that the healing and the secondary shield is too much. LIke the Jawa above me said they are probably going to miss the target and nail the dps. Arsenal/gunnery damage on grav rounds/tracer missile is no where near where it used to be. They nerf that again and we might as well be shooting spitballs at operative/scoundrel healers. What I find sad is most of these complaint threads on mercs/commandos are all complaining not about the healing/secondary shield but electro net. That thing has not changed in forever and has been there forever. Not since launch but still a long time. Goes to show have these guys do not even bother to find out what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 (edited) I do not disagree that the healing and the secondary shield is too much. LIke the Jawa above me said they are probably going to miss the target and nail the dps. Arsenal/gunnery damage on grav rounds/tracer missile is no where near where it used to be. They nerf that again and we might as well be shooting spitballs at operative/scoundrel healers. What I find sad is most of these complaint threads on mercs/commandos are all complaining not about the healing/secondary shield but electro net. That thing has not changed in forever and has been there forever. Not since launch but still a long time. Goes to show have these guys do not even bother to find out what they are talking about. They're most likely complaining about electronet because there's so many mercs around. Similar to how in ~2.5, when they MARGINALLY buffed Concealment's damage and gave them a nice QoL buff, everyone and their mom was QQing about operatives when nothing really changed. It's just cause there were a lot of them playing the class. However, this doesn't give merc a free pass, as merc IS actually pretty OP in the defense department. Edited December 25, 2016 by QuiveringPotato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Trump is President elect Back To The Future ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 They're most likely complaining about electronet because there's so many mercs around. Similar to how in ~2.5, when they MARGINALLY buffed Concealment's damage and gave them a nice QoL buff, everyone and their mom was QQing about operatives when nothing really changed. It's just cause there were a lot of them playing the class. However, this doesn't give merc a free pass, as merc IS actually pretty OP in the defense department. I agree, but to be honest all it has done is put a bulls eye on mercs/commandos. As soon as a wz starts you get about four to five glowy sticks shoved up your arse. Me ill be messing with the vanguard, even though three some years later it is still in purgatory. Not really a ranged tank, not really a melee tank, and not really a trooper. The operative/scoundrel and assassin/shadow has always been a number one problem in pvp in this game. They designed both those classes around lots of stealth, and lots of crowd control. Both areas have taken a hit over the years but operative/scoundrels still seem to be overpowering in heals and can still roll for easy wins in normal huttball. On that end I have no idea how to even fix that issue. Its much larger then most people realize, as it involved two advance classes. I get what your saying about the operative. The one time I lost it over a operative was when they were so mega buffed, that a entire team focusing the operative in question could not kill said operative. He just stood there spamming heals despite us interrupting him. This was a long long long time ago. I just hope this thread does some good and get players to realize what is actually going on with the merc/commando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I agree, but to be honest all it has done is put a bulls eye on mercs/commandos. As soon as a wz starts you get about four to five glowy sticks shoved up your arse. Me ill be messing with the vanguard, even though three some years later it is still in purgatory. Not really a ranged tank, not really a melee tank, and not really a trooper. The operative/scoundrel and assassin/shadow has always been a number one problem in pvp in this game. They designed both those classes around lots of stealth, and lots of crowd control. Both areas have taken a hit over the years but operative/scoundrels still seem to be overpowering in heals and can still roll for easy wins in normal huttball. On that end I have no idea how to even fix that issue. Its much larger then most people realize, as it involved two advance classes. I get what your saying about the operative. The one time I lost it over a operative was when they were so mega buffed, that a entire team focusing the operative in question could not kill said operative. He just stood there spamming heals despite us interrupting him. This was a long long long time ago. I just hope this thread does some good and get players to realize what is actually going on with the merc/commando. The difference with operatives and their super strong survivability in the past (and currently, somewhat) is that we output absolute poop damage. A commando can hit you for 36k+ and over 20k on nearly every rotational ability, at 30m range, extreme kiting capabilities, with what's essentially 3 lives and the ability to facetank any class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 The difference with operatives and their super strong survivability in the past (and currently, somewhat) is that we output absolute poop damage. A commando can hit you for 36k+ and over 20k on nearly every rotational ability, at 30m range, extreme kiting capabilities, with what's essentially 3 lives and the ability to facetank any class. I could see what your saying about the operative, its not the first time I have heard that, but what most players including myself see is getting stunned allot by an operative. This puts the operative class on target board. As for the commando yes currently you could say it has 3 lives now and the kiting is true. Like I have said they remove the buff to heals and the extra shield I think the class will be fine. They nerf our damage the mercs/commandos are going to have real problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I could see what your saying about the operative, its not the first time I have heard that, but what most players including myself see is getting stunned allot by an operative. This puts the operative class on target board. As for the commando yes currently you could say it has 3 lives now and the kiting is true. Like I have said they remove the buff to heals and the extra shield I think the class will be fine. They nerf our damage the mercs/commandos are going to have real problems. Don't let these people merc-shame you. Mercs are the new swtor overlords. Savor your position at the top of the pyramid, where every other class has sat at one point or another! You deserve this. Stop being apologetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I could see what your saying about the operative, its not the first time I have heard that, but what most players including myself see is getting stunned allot by an operative. This puts the operative class on target board. As for the commando yes currently you could say it has 3 lives now and the kiting is true. Like I have said they remove the buff to heals and the extra shield I think the class will be fine. They nerf our damage the mercs/commandos are going to have real problems. That's kinda funny, because PT is actually the only class in the game that can truly stunlock you in hardstuns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadessaWayland Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 The difference with operatives and their super strong survivability in the past (and currently, somewhat) is that we output absolute poop damage. A commando can hit you for 36k+ and over 20k on nearly every rotational ability, at 30m range, extreme kiting capabilities, with what's essentially 3 lives and the ability to facetank any class. but its the mistake off you players self on red eclipse am mostly the only merc around most stile play jugg mara assassin and sorc opertive sniper and if you are all fighting ea other is for a merc and snipers easy kills so don't blame us i just w8 till my team and other are fighting i just come in much later and kill players with lower health first you must always look around where other players are and not boom smack i fight right away i always look what the enemy have for classes if i see they have snipers i know they gone position there self in places where the enemy cant see them good so i just walk around in big circles and look where they are so i can get them and not kill my team in the back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 The difference with operatives and their super strong survivability in the past (and currently, somewhat) is that we output absolute poop damage. Except in 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greezt Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Except in 1v1. No, op damage output is low in 1v1 too. They can outlast pretty much anything, that's all. When people complained about ops it was never their insane DPS, just the CC and roll + heals (which gets annoying). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 It seems fine in lowbies, then again.. everything seems to do more damage there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) I am not ashamed of being a commando nor am I apologizing for my class. What I am doing is recognizing that the poster has legitimate points. I never like being the overlords class. why? I know what comes next a overkill nerf that leaves your class utterly destroyed. As for position your points are correct, however the new huttball map does not allow for this. No matter how hard you try your going to be right smack dab in the middle of the action. Your points are something newer commandos/mercs should listen to. Our class everything is dependent on timing and positioning. These overkill buffs have just let us break that rule a little bit. On the vanguard you get two maybe three stuns right now. I think three if you spec something. The cryo grenade sometimes does what it is supposed to and sometimes not. With a operative you hear that knife sound stun, and then stun again. Ive learned over the years the best thing to do with someone constantly stunning you is to use concussive round on them. Yes in low level pvp everything is much more powerful. Example my hammer shot on a alt of mine hits like a ton of bricks in low level pvp. Edited December 26, 2016 by CrazyOldMystic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 What I am doing is recognizing that the poster has legitimate points. The problem is people want to make "legitimate" points, but fail to include the finer details. All they can do in their hate and bias is make blanket statements like, "NERF MERCS OMG OP'D!!!!!!!1!!! What I mean is that when someone says nerf mercs, that includes healing mercs. That includes IO mercs. Are IO mercs overperforming? Are healing mercs overperforming? I am pretty sure IO still sucks. I am pretty sure healing mercs still perform under sorc healers and in some situations even under ops healers. The arsenal spec is no more overperforming than any of the past top apex pvp classes btw. In fact, some may argue they are not even as OP'd as some of the past classes have been. I can't grant any concession whatsoever to any whine thread. It doesn't matter anyway, because the circle of shine revolves at the whim of the BW devs, not at the beck and call of the forumquesters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) What I mean is that when someone says nerf mercs, that includes healing mercs. That includes IO mercs. I think part of this problem lies with the Leaderboards showing no specs, therefore not teaching people what actually is there. Same goes for clicking on a character in general. There is info that there is a Mercenary - but not exactly what kind of Mercenary. Edited December 26, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I think part of this problem lies with the Leaderboards showing no specs, therefore not teaching people what actually is there. Same goes for clicking on a character in general. There is info that there is a Mercenary - but not exactly what kind of Mercenary. That's actually a good point Alrik. People are too lazy to actually research the very subject they complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 Well this was never a whining thread. I made the post to point out facts about the status of commandos/mercs. A I got tired of seeing thread after thread complaining about electro net, even though the ability has not changed at all, and is exactly the same as it always has been. Yes people assume. Yes the devs will not listen to feedback and I can expect a overkill of arsenal/gunnery dps by way of nerf. What follows after that is healers are op ever single thread, because there will be no nuke class out there to balance the field. As is it takes about three average gear mercs/dps to take down a decent operative healer. In voidstar where time is a factor you had better up that to six. I know the devs dont care, I was here when they got rid of 8 people in a group qing up. Now to do that you have to jump through all kinds of hoops, and that again has only hurt pvp. Moving warzones out of rank to replace them with arenas? We all saw the result of that bone head move. They still wont concede it was a bad idea. Sorry about the ran this time just making a point, that yea I understand how people are, and how the devs are. In the end a discussion is two people talking. I could have held my ground and just shouted at the other person, but what would that have accomplished? How would that be a actual discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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