Really?

[leehambly]

I'm sorry you cannot open the threads in which people let them know how they felt about this random crate junk. It must be a challenge for you to open this one. I don't want to burden you with having to try anymore so I will just not bother to respond to your posts, you clearly have nothing to add to this topic since we're talking about changes requested by the community you seem to know nothing about.

 

Nice attempt at a swerve. Are you actually trying to suggest this entire playerbase speaks with a single voice? You say I'm not adding anything new, and yet this opinion is apparently totally absent since apparently what you are demanding is what everyone asked for, with that single voice - so which is it? It cannot be both!

 

Like I said: its a bus, not a taxi. You might not want to admit it, but there are shades of grey here... they are clearly concerned about rate of drops and don't want it to be a simple queue up and get leet stuffs which the previous two releases (3.0 and 4.0) have been.

Edited December 21, 2016 by leehambly

[DarthSpuds]

The important part of the article is that he quit his job and moved to ANOTHER COUNTRY to follow his passion. I bet about 0 of you have ever had the guts to do that. But it's real easy to criticize on an anonymous forum.

 

I did it.

 

But it didn't work out, so I was man enough to admit the mistake and move on.

 

All The Best

[Smuglebunny]

As far as that guy moving to a new country for a job, hey thats cool and everything. And Im not attacking the guy personally. But, the fact that they would use the word humility or humble set me off.

 

The word I was thinking of was extreme arrogance, malice and foolishness. They hid all the details of this update until the last minute BECAUSE THEY KNEW we would hate it.

 

This update is PURELY designed to retain subs for as long as possible by preying on people who are addicted and just cant unsub. This makes them take longer to do everything and so stay subbed for longer.

 

That is the SOLE reason for the update.

 

But they are humble.

 

OH and almost NO new content. In YEARS! (hey not enough content? slow them down x4 instant new content right?)

 

They just invented a way to slow our progress while making nothing new. Oh uprisings. Ive done 2 they dont pop.

And they are just flashpoints.

 

There is nothing new. Just a reason to slow us for money. The only reason they are making any changes is to save subs cuz they FOOLISHLY didnt understand how MUCH we would hate it. They are making changes that suit them and as minimal as possible to quell dissent. They are CERTAINLY NOT listening to players.

 

But the best ideas need to go in game no matter whos they are right? RIGHT!?

 

Humble.

 

Right.

 

no.

 

 

But it didn't work out, so I was man enough to admit the mistake and move on.

 

 

Bioware/EA never admits making mistakes. Isnt that what being humble is? They dont even know what it MEANS.

Now they have done the largest blunder in SWTOR history, no apology, never a reversal. We put on our stone faces and move forward right BW? Like all the other many blunders. And make sure never to fix a bug no matter how many months or years it exists.

 

Humble.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Smuglebunny

[Sargrith]

Here's the thing as I see it.

 

If you're really humble you don't say it over and over. You don't have to.

 

If you're really listening you don't need to say it over and over. Your actions will speak for you.

 

Did they listen? We all know the answer we all saw it when they released 5.0 after pages of people telling them this random crate thing was not wanted or acceptable. They didnt do a damn thing, they told us to wait and see that it wouldn't be as bad as we think it would. We all saw, we posted about how much more we hated it then we even thought we would. We demanded, and lets be fair we aren't negotiating with them we are demanding from them a good game with a reasonable gearing system, they change the system or remove it entirely so get away from the random crate gearing. Did they listen, well lets look at 5.1....no still not listening.

 

They can say whatever they like. We can all see the truth of it though in what they actually do. And right now, what they say and what they are doing do not match up.

[Ryenke]

Ok, so one at a time.

Your existing 4.0 set pieces (the armouring) are more than sufficient for HM raiding. The diff between 6x4.0 set pieces and 6x5.0 is less than a single augment mk-10. Likewise the rest of your raid team. Have you even tried to raid yet? Nim raids were done on release day in 4.0 gear :/

 

RNG was throughout 3.0 and 4.0 JUST not per raid, only per player. You would often, as a raider, walk away with nothing. And yes, the ninja problem is and always has been there.

 

If the feeling of progression was all that the token loot gave you and amassing a huge stack of unused tokens was the only reason you were raiding, then idk... I simply don't know what to say to that. Seems like your interest was waning already... and this is the crux of the matter... stop using the RNG as an excuse for your waning interest. Agreed, there is a lack of new group content. But using the rng cxp loot system as a reason why you cannot CONTINUE doing ops form 4.0 to 5.0 is well, its indicative of not trying at all.

 

5.1 allows the unlucky to be able to fill in those gaps. I see it as a good option, and cannot wait to see exactly how they are going to implement it, since its not 100% crystal clear atm.

 

Finally (cos I'm off for a bit after this and responding to the other two above), you have to be honest with yourself at the end of the day: Is it the loot system or content? I could not and would not have a single response if your response is "group content", other than maybe "yeah... they need to sort that". You cannot blame the loot for this though.

 

No new group content is no good, no arguing that.

 

But you really don't seem to hear. To get raid gear for my healers I used to run raids on my healers. To get gear for my 'play dps' toons I used to run around and play. Now I would have to use all the time I used to play 4+ toons on a single toon and get whatever RNG has to offer that one toon. And nope, 5.1 won't help because Pub raid team won't be able to spare that 1/8 extra piece once a week to me, and I won't RING win that 1/8 chance to win the single piece in a pug imp side. Can't do dailies, events for fun on a dps toon anymore, so no ZERO, NIT, NADA upgrade gear for them (And I'm a bad dps, won't show my face in a veteran level fp without the basic lowest current tier gear, cause that wouldn't be fair to other players.).

 

Pre 5.0 I controlled the gearing of my toons mostly. For my main toons, Yes, I had some RNG on the gear I was working on, but with 5 good pieces droping from every op, I had a better than 1/5 chance of getting something. And since I usually ran 2 ops, I pretty much had a guarantee upgrade 1 time a week. And comm gear could tide me over for left side gear inbetween. For my dps toons, I geared them at the pace I earned comms. When they had a mixture of 216/208 gear I'd take them into group content.

 

Now, in the first three weeks of 5.0 have been starting to experience what life would be if I continued to sub: Play 10 to 20 hours a week and get an upgraded piece of gear for a single toon by RNG. Good RNG might mean one upgrade a week, Bad RNG means probably one upgrade pice a month. The 1/8 chance to get something in 5.1 will work out to maybe one more piece of gear every 8 weeks if I was lucky so an extra 6 pieces of gear a year,. lol, yea only people who are lying to themselves could be honest and say that is better. It isn't. It is Smoke and Mirrors.

 

Why do I stare at the log-in screen trying to decide if I want to log in to a toon in 5.0 - because there is nothing to look forward to. Can't do group content, the folks who say 'you can do group content with your current gear' - well, no, I can't (dps toons are not good enough, healers - if they could find a group - are wasting time doing so because they won't get any gear to help them move to harder stuff). In otherwords, the grind + RNG have completely demotivated me to play, because I find them to be completely unfun.

 

I'm done here by the way, no more answers. Grind + RNG fest 5.0 SWTOR is no fun. No matter how many times you and the devs try to tell me that they are fine, I know what it is I don't like. Stop patronizing me and telling me they are great for me, and/or I don't understand what I don't like. IMO, there is no THRILL, EXCITEMENT in 5.0 just the opposite. IMO, the devs have shown ZERO ZIP NADA evidence that they listened to my point of view and made only the most infinitesimal change (which would add MORE of the grind + RNG menchanics into my game) to supplement the new GRIND + RNG fest 5.0 new gearing. They didn't understand anything if they think 5.1 is evidence of LISTENING, or them making HUMBLE changes.

 

5.1 is the same/worse than 5.0. And 5.0 is GRINDgoRNGRound house of horrors.

 

So let me ask you the same question you started with with me, tell me just why are you here in the threads where people are speaking out against 5.0 changes? The only reason I can see for you to be here is to patronize and belittle those who don't like 5.0. So, right back atcha but why are you here? Really. Would love to know.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Ryenke

[Sargrith]

Here's the thing as I see it.

 

If you're really humble you don't say it over and over. You don't have to.

 

If you're really listening you don't need to say it over and over. Your actions will speak for you.

 

Did they listen? We all know the answer we all saw it when they released 5.0 after pages of people telling them this random crate thing was not wanted or acceptable. They didnt do a damn thing, they told us to wait and see that it wouldn't be as bad as we think it would. We all saw, we posted about how much more we hated it then we even thought we would. We demanded, and lets be fair we aren't negotiating with them we are demanding from them a good game with a reasonable gearing system, they change the system or remove it entirely so get away from the random crate gearing. Did they listen, well lets look at 5.1....no still not listening.

 

They can say whatever they like. We can all see the truth of it though in what they actually do. And right now, what they say and what they are doing do not match up.

 

So focused am I on how bad their gearing method is and how much its hated I over looked other parts of the game they are listening and humble about.

 

How many threads were there asking for companions be returned? Dozens at least likely way more. How many came back with 5.0...with 5.1....yeah listening.

 

How many people asked for nature breaks in the story, so that it just didn't go chapter to chapter without a break that allowed you to take a break or maybe just take it all in. Again dozens of threads about that throughout 4.0 all the way to 5.0. How did that work out in 5.0....yeah listening here too.

[Soljin]

Very biased post on our part.

 

Sorry, but it is naïve to think that players dictate the direction of a game. I know you and some others feel very strongly about this.. but at the end of the day.. you are a voluntary consumer of a product serving a very wide customer base with differing tastes/wants/needs. We play it as it is presented, or we don't.... it's that simple.

 

As for listening to players.. this MMO has done fairly well, particularly in the QoL aspects, of making the game less tedious in many ways and improving mechanics of game play. So to imply that they never listen is absurd.

 

None of which excuses mistakes made in taking new directions..... but new directions do carry risk, and they need better risk mitigation as part of doing so. Right now they pick a new direction.. and they push it out and debug it on live servers with paying customers. That part.. DOES need to be addressed better.

 

Yep we were voluntary consumers...

 

I wanted to support this game, I want it to succeed because I love Star Wars but at this point I am not going to pay for a second job.

 

Running the same content on all fronts with RnG everywhere is not my idea of fun.

 

Some seem to want to give Bioware/EA a break because this is a business... I'm not going to lie, I don't care about their profit one bit. When I start seeing business based design in my game instead of fun focused design....it starts becoming less fun because they chose to make it less about fun...go figure..

Edited December 21, 2016 by Soljin

[Ryenke]

Yep we were voluntary consumers...

 

I wanted to support this game, I want it to succeed because I love Star Wars but at this point I am not going to pay for a second job.

 

Running the same content on all fronts with RnG everywhere is not my idea of fun.

 

Some seem to want to give Bioware/EA a break because this is a business... I'm not going to lie, I don't care about their profit one bit. When I start seeing business based design in my game instead of fun focused design....it starts becoming less fun because they chose to make it less about fun...go figure..

 

Very nice post. Completely agree.

[leehambly]

No new group content is no good, no arguing that.

 

But you really don't seem to hear. To get raid gear for my healers I used to run raids on my healers. To get gear for my 'play dps' toons I used to run around and play. Now I would have to use all the time I used to play 4+ toons on a single toon and get whatever RNG has to offer that one toon. And nope, 5.1 won't help because Pub raid team won't be able to spare that 1/8 extra piece once a week to me, and I won't RING win that 1/8 chance to win the single piece in a pug imp side. Can't do dailies, events for fun on a dps toon anymore, so no ZERO, NIT, NADA upgrade gear for them (And I'm a bad dps, won't show my face in a veteran level fp without the basic lowest current tier gear, cause that wouldn't be fair to other players.). ]

 

Ok, this should be a pm really, as this is just turning into a conversation between the two of us... but...

 

ok, so you used to raid purely to gear... gear for what?

Veteran fps are bolstered - doesn't matter what gear you are in. Just pile in. Half the time I forget which spec I'm in, the other half of the time, my group mates don't even seem to realise there is such as thing as a spec.

 

Pre 5.0 I controlled the gearing of my toons mostly. For my main toons, Yes, I had some RNG on the gear I was working on, but with 5 good pieces droping from every op, I had a better than 1/5 chance of getting something. And since I usually ran 2 ops, I pretty much had a guarantee upgrade 1 time a week. And comm gear could tide me over for left side gear inbetween. For my dps toons, I geared them at the pace I earned comms. When they had a mixture of 216/208 gear I'd take them into group content.

 

Correction: you had a 5/8 chance not a 1/5. There are eight people, I guess you are looting using a token system, so all eight of you rolling for 5 pieces. So yes, on that basis - you were virtually guaranteed a piece, ie: 10/8. However there is a chance you got nothing, from either, right? I am nothing if not fair.

 

Crafted gear will do the same as the old comm gear. Not sure if you yourself are a crafter, or which server you are on, but there is loads on the GTN currently on the server I play on, and I hope its the same for you. I would like server merges as and when possible.

 

Now, in the first three weeks of 5.0 have been starting to experience what life would be if I continued to sub: Play 10 to 20 hours a week and get an upgraded piece of gear for a single toon by RNG. Good RNG might mean one upgrade a week, Bad RNG means probably one upgrade pice a month. The 1/8 chance to get something in 5.1 will work out to maybe one more piece of gear every 8 weeks if I was lucky so an extra 6 pieces of gear a year,. lol, yea only people who are lying to themselves could be honest and say that is better. It isn't. It is Smoke and Mirrors.

 

Do we really know how good or bad these rolls are? Idk... I can only speak for myself. I admit I have been (apparently) lucky... idk though, I could be the unluckiest sod going (I'm not - I actually got set pieces in 3 of the last 4 boxes I've opened :/) Fact is they have said they will monitor it and adjust accordingly.

 

To me though, why are you so focused on purely gearing?

 

Why do I stare at the log-in screen trying to decide if I want to log in to a toon in 5.0 - because there is nothing to look forward to. Can't do group content, the folks who say 'you can do group content with your current gear' - well, no, I can't (dps toons are not good enough, healers - if they could find a group - are wasting time doing so because they won't get any gear to help them move to harder stuff). In otherwords, the grind + RNG have completely demotivated me to play, because I find them to be completely unfun.

 

A willing healer not able to find a group? I'm a willing healer and never have to wait more than a couple of minutes. And healers get as much loot as any other role. If the only reason you are playing at all is to gear characters, then yes, I agree, prolly best to leave. I would join you if that were my sole (or even main) purpose in the game.

 

I'm done here by the way, no more answers. Grind + RNG fest 5.0 SWTOR is no fun. No matter how many times you and the devs try to tell me that they are fine, I know what it is I don't like. Stop patronizing me and telling me they are great for me, and/or I don't understand what I don't like. IMO, there is no THRILL, EXCITEMENT in 5.0 just the opposite. IMO, the devs have shown ZERO ZIP NADA evidence that they listened to my point of view and made only the most infinitesimal change (which would add MORE of the grind + RNG menchanics into my game) to supplement the new GRIND + RNG fest 5.0 new gearing. They didn't understand anything if they think 5.1 is evidence of LISTENING, or them making HUMBLE changes.

 

I'm not telling you anything other than if the only reason you are playing is to gear characters and you don't want to gear characters, then yes, you should stop playing. I sense it is more to do with there being nothing new that you are interested and you feel the only thing left is to gear characters. That's your decision.

 

So let me ask you the same question you started with with me, tell me just why are you here in the threads where people are speaking out against 5.0 changes? The only reason I can see for you to be here is to patronize and belittle those who don't like 5.0. So, right back atcha but why are you here? Really. Would love to know.

 

This bit is prolly better done as a sidebar but hey ho...

Why am I in the game? I like playing the characters. I like GSF, I like PVP, I like solo PVE, I like group PVE. Fk it, I even like decorating my Strongholds and then mindlessly jumping about on the GS throwing exploding huttballs at each other.

The reason I am on this board? Because its the forum of a game I play, a lot.

The reason why I am responding to people posting half-assed, half-thought through bs? Because many don't have the honesty, insight or circumspection to sit down and consider, from a development perspective, the issues and possible solutions. Its simply I WANT THIS THE WAY I WANT IT AND I WANT IT NOW OR IM GOING. If a 5 year old said that in response to something, the answer would be pretty clear, innit? This is not a single player game in cheat mode. All MMO's suffer from a certain amount of toxicity within the playerbase... its part of the modern gamer for some reason, you can prolly tell I'm no youngster, but it seems to me that not only do they not know how to lose but they don't even seemingly know how to win - and I am not talking about objectives.

There is a mantra in the catering trade that says a customer with a bad experience will tell 10 people, while a customer with a good experience will tell 1 person. I can only really give the perspective from my point of view. Gearing - couldn't care less, its a by-product of playing. Content - THAT'S the issue.

I am certainly no white knight for the developers, but you HAVE to be honest with your reasoning and come to terms with the fact that there is no CONTENT to keep you going. The loot issue IS the sideshow, as you said about the 5.1 update.

I have played another MMO, from beta to sunset, which underwent drastic, controversial changes that massively affected the playerbase and I watched as pile after pile of, frankly, bs was tipped onto one tiny part of the game. The game we ended up with, with a tiny portion of the original players, ended up being an extremely valuable experience. Now I'm not saying that this cxp system could be the making swtor, but what I am saying is this is SO not anything drastic. Its just some gear... its not even some gear, its how some of that gear is handed out.

 

It was always coming - from a long way out... myself I don't understand why the level cap needs raising - just re-baseline it. Every release we have had a 5 level increase - that isn't sustainable. 2.0 = 10% increase, 3.0 = 9% increase, 4.0 = 8% increase, 5.0 = 7.5% increase. I've not done the whole numbering on the gear in detail, but I would not be surprised to find this is about the same. Each release, the next set of tiers becomes less and less important - its bound to the character, that's where the significant stat increase comes from, not the gear itself. So something was going to have to change.

 

It's not my intention to be patronising, but its hard when the over-riding attitude is "just gimme the gear already" - and when pointed in the direction of the content, the response is "I don't wanna play that, gimme the gear or I'm going"... well, its clearly not the gear then! If the content were up to muster there would not be an issue... no one would care. Apart from Pvp'ers. Shhh.

 

Apologies for length - as I said it would be better in a pm or a chat or whatever.

[Jamtas]

Have you played 5.0?

 

You can't squelch, but you'll damned well try to take a few more sub with you, right?

 

They have "listened" to an extremely vocal part of the community regarding 5.0, they had enough "humility" to backtrack on a decision and will continue to "monitor" the situation. For one, I was "excited" about the 5.0 changes, since the method of gearing imho had become rote and involved, often, dealing with pug ******s and meh generally... but now I'm "thrilled" to see the apparent reason why so many have left has a planned resolution. Did you miss an update?

 

We will see.

 

So here is the deal with humility in this sense. If it was truly listening to players (could have done that by listening pre launch of this idea, but whatever) and saying "we were wrong" - which has not been said rather "we hear your feedback and are making changes to your wishes." types of things, then I could agree with humility.

 

But I can't take that word as genuine because I believe these changes weren't the result of really wanting to listen to players but a result of negative press and loss of subscription revenue (which they are already on high alert for after being called out in EAs most recent Quarterly report) . After that callout, having another quarter come and go with a sub decrease (esp on heels of an expansion) would not bode well for those in leadership/mgmt positions for the game.

 

So where he says "humility" I see "racing to cover my butt".

[TUXs]

Here's the thing as I see it.

 

If you're really humble you don't say it over and over. You don't have to.

 

If you're really listening you don't need to say it over and over. Your actions will speak for you.

 

They can say whatever they like. We can all see the truth of it though in what they actually do. And right now, what they say and what they are doing do not match up.

I could not agree more with this observation. Great post!!!

[Jamtas]

. Its simply I WANT THIS THE WAY I WANT IT AND I WANT IT NOW OR IM GOING. If a 5 year old said that in response to something, the answer would be pretty clear, innit?

 

Is the 5 year old a paying customer? This isn't a situation where a child is being given something and should be grateful of the gift.

An adult says" this si what I want for my money. If you aren't going to provide that, then I'll leave and take my money elsewhere." That isn't wrong to do. It may not change a company's mind, but the paying customer has every right to make a demand for what they spend their money on. They just have to be able to say, OK I'll live with their response and keep paying, or follow through and leave if my concerns aren't met.

[DarthDymond]

Yep we were voluntary consumers...

 

I wanted to support this game, I want it to succeed because I love Star Wars but at this point I am not going to pay for a second job.

 

Running the same content on all fronts with RnG everywhere is not my idea of fun.

 

Some seem to want to give Bioware/EA a break because this is a business... I'm not going to lie, I don't care about their profit one bit. When I start seeing business based design in my game instead of fun focused design....it starts becoming less fun because they chose to make it less about fun...go figure..

I don't know about anyone "giv[ing] Bioware/EA a break because this is a business" - it's just that for a lot of us the product they're putting out is good/enjoyable enough to still be worth the price they're charging for it. For others that's obviously not that case, which is normal for entertainment products. Different people have different tastes, different priorities for what they're looking for in their entertainment, and different valuations for how much money or time they think something is worth.

 

Recognizing "it's a business" and that we're consumers, not the bosses, is just about not taking it personally when they do something you don't care for and managing your expectations as to what developments / changes we are realistically likely to see. No one is saying that you should keep playing or paying if you're not enjoying yourself.

[Jamtas]

I don't know about anyone "giv[ing] Bioware/EA a break because this is a business" - it's just that for a lot of us the product they're putting out is good/enjoyable enough to still be worth the price they're charging for it. For others that's obviously not that case, which is normal for entertainment products. Different people have different tastes, different priorities for what they're looking for in their entertainment, and different valuations for how much money or time they think something is worth.

 

Recognizing "it's a business" and that we're consumers, not the bosses, is just about not taking it personally when they do something you don't care for and managing your expectations as to what developments / changes we are realistically likely to see. No one is saying that you should keep playing or paying if you're not enjoying yourself.

 

I can agree with this. For some there is enough content they haven't played or they haven't reached the point where playing the same content has gotten boring.

 

If you're still having fun in game, keep playing and hope it continues.

But, those of us who want change or we leave have the right to voice that opinion and then to leave if we don't like it, or some can stay begrudgingly because they've made friends in game and this is the place where they can "hang out"

[leehambly]

Is the 5 year old a paying customer? This isn't a situation where a child is being given something and should be grateful of the gift.

An adult says" this si what I want for my money. If you aren't going to provide that, then I'll leave and take my money elsewhere." That isn't wrong to do. It may not change a company's mind, but the paying customer has every right to make a demand for what they spend their money on. They just have to be able to say, OK I'll live with their response and keep paying, or follow through and leave if my concerns aren't met.

 

Indeed, absolutely! And as an adult have the good grace to just go...

 

You do not need to announce it to a bunch of randoms you have never met as some sort of life-changing event. You do not need to try to get other people to quit. You do not need to hold your sub over their heads like the sword of Damocles. And you definitely do not need to continually bleat on and on when steps have already been put in place to remedy the apparent concerns. If, in that respect, all of this comes down to differing priorities, approaches and styles... then yeah, maybe. I have enough experience to know that demanding things with an ultimatum isn't an good opening gambit in a negotiation.

 

People are now dissing an update they actually know next to nothing about, even the developers aren't sure yet (though they do see more sure today than in the livestream), they've been on it for about a week.

 

Could you imagine walking out of a shop that unfortunately couldn't fulfil your custom order precisely how you wanted it to be done, even though they don't do custom orders, and then ranting at every customer that goes in? Is that how an adult acts? That's a traffic barker, a window licker, w/e you wanna call it - he's an adult all right, but :/

[Ryenke]

Indeed, absolutely! And as an adult have the good grace to just go...

 

You do not need to announce it to a bunch of randoms you have never met as some sort of life-changing event. You do not need to try to get other people to quit. You do not need to hold your sub over their heads like the sword of Damocles. And you definitely do not need to continually bleat on and on when steps have already been put in place to remedy the apparent concerns. If, in that respect, all of this comes down to differing priorities, approaches and styles... then yeah, maybe. I have enough experience to know that demanding things with an ultimatum isn't an good opening gambit in a negotiation.

 

People are now dissing an update they actually know next to nothing about, even the developers aren't sure yet (though they do see more sure today than in the livestream), they've been on it for about a week.

 

Could you imagine walking out of a shop that unfortunately couldn't fulfil your custom order precisely how you wanted it to be done, even though they don't do custom orders, and then ranting at every customer that goes in? Is that how an adult acts? That's a traffic barker, a window licker, w/e you wanna call it - he's an adult all right, but :/

 

Just sayin: those Bioware devs keep telling us to leave our feedback, "they want to hear it and they are listening".

[Jamtas]

Indeed, absolutely! And as an adult have the good grace to just go...

 

You do not need to announce it to a bunch of randoms you have never met as some sort of life-changing event. You do not need to try to get other people to quit. You do not need to hold your sub over their heads like the sword of Damocles. And you definitely do not need to continually bleat on and on when steps have already been put in place to remedy the apparent concerns. If, in that respect, all of this comes down to differing priorities, approaches and styles... then yeah, maybe. I have enough experience to know that demanding things with an ultimatum isn't an good opening gambit in a negotiation.

 

People are now dissing an update they actually know next to nothing about, even the developers aren't sure yet (though they do see more sure today than in the livestream), they've been on it for about a week.

 

Could you imagine walking out of a shop that unfortunately couldn't fulfil your custom order precisely how you wanted it to be done, even though they don't do custom orders, and then ranting at every customer that goes in? Is that how an adult acts? That's a traffic barker, a window licker, w/e you wanna call it - he's an adult all right, but :/

 

Again, poor analogy. We aren't at their headquarters, we are on an online forum that they request feedback delivered to.

 

The dissing of the update comes form the data they have shared. You can praise or dis based on that.

 

Based on their feedback - they will only drop a fixed token(s) on final boss and a chance at the rest. The numbers they are thinking of on the rest is in the 20% range from Eric's post. The gear drop will still require a tie in to the GC system. That is all information they have posted.

 

And this game is a custom shop of sorts. Additions and subtractions form this game have been form player feedback. This isn't a boxed up console title on the shelf at gamestop you take at whatever finished product you are holding. This is an MMO which is ever evolving.

 

Listen if you are the type that just "takes it" and either leaves or stays, so be it.

Others are not.

[leehambly]

Again, poor analogy. We aren't at their headquarters, we are on an online forum that they request feedback delivered to.

 

The dissing of the update comes form the data they have shared. You can praise or dis based on that.

 

Based on their feedback - they will only drop a fixed token(s) on final boss and a chance at the rest. The numbers they are thinking of on the rest is in the 20% range from Eric's post. The gear drop will still require a tie in to the GC system. That is all information they have posted.

 

And this game is a custom shop of sorts. Additions and subtractions form this game have been form player feedback. This isn't a boxed up console title on the shelf at gamestop you take at whatever finished product you are holding. This is an MMO which is ever evolving.

 

Listen if you are the type that just "takes it" and either leaves or stays, so be it.

Others are not.

 

Just because something is online, shouldn't change how you conduct yourself in public. It is still, effectively, their "shop".

 

Ok, go read Eric's post again... they are just numbers, he says they are just numbers... I knew as soon as I saw his numbering people would assume they were real - he really should have put X, Y and Z etc. Idk, maybe they are 20%, maybe they aren't - what I do know is: It's a cut and paste job, done quickly.. hence the Jarg & Sorno duplication, so the principle behind it is clear... bosses 1-4 are a chance (size is tbc), boss 5 = 100%. The numbers haven't been decided yet. That's all we know for sure. That and they are extremely responsive and careful at the moment about drop rates, so take from that what you will.

 

And yes, ofc the game evolves but in doing so, its guided by the developers to ensure it doesn't run into a cul-de-sac. They had to change course on the gearing, mainly because the usual system of binding it to the content isn't really viable in the latest release - although personally I would have liked to see all gear bound to solo KOTET Veteran Chapter 2 only, but that's me being facetious. Previously, as you know, it was bound to each ops - until the last update, when they updated all the ops and bound it to the whole lot. It was never going to be an option with no ops update. Again, the lack of new, substantial group end-game content is the real issue, not merely a method of gear delivery, per se.

 

Is a shame, cos tbh, for me, the quality of the solo content they have given us is excellent and I don't think it would take a whole lot to actually make those 25 chapters into actual group content.

 

I'm not the type to give a ultimatum. No song and dance required. It'll just be turned off.

[Jamtas]

Just because something is online, shouldn't change how you conduct yourself in public. It is still, effectively, their "shop".

 

Ok, go read Eric's post again... they are just numbers, he says they are just numbers... I knew as soon as I saw his numbering people would assume they were real - he really should have put X, Y and Z etc. Idk, maybe they are 20%, maybe they aren't - what I do know is: It's a cut and paste job, done quickly.. hence the Jarg & Sorno duplication, so the principle behind it is clear... bosses 1-4 are a chance (size is tbc), boss 5 = 100%. The numbers haven't been decided yet. That's all we know for sure. That and they are extremely responsive and careful at the moment about drop rates, so take from that what you will.

 

And yes, ofc the game evolves but in doing so, its guided by the developers to ensure it doesn't run into a cul-de-sac. They had to change course on the gearing, mainly because the usual system of binding it to the content isn't really viable in the latest release - although personally I would have liked to see all gear bound to solo KOTET Veteran Chapter 2 only, but that's me being facetious. Previously, as you know, it was bound to each ops - until the last update, when they updated all the ops and bound it to the whole lot. It was never going to be an option with no ops update. Again, the lack of new, substantial group end-game content is the real issue, not merely a method of gear delivery, per se.

 

Is a shame, cos tbh, for me, the quality of the solo content they have given us is excellent and I don't think it would take a whole lot to actually make those 25 chapters into actual group content.

 

I'm not the type to give a ultimatum. No song and dance required. It'll just be turned off.

 

Ok, so you'll just take whatever they give you and play or silently walk away. Your point is made that is your style. It isn't mine. I amke feedback because I want to stay in teh game, not jsut say "oh well, they didn't do what i wanted even though I kept quiet". I'll just go play another game.

I don't treat the game like a gift I take or leave. I use the forums for feedback as they requested, not as a place of business I should only say positive things as to not scare other customers away.

 

Eric's post show what they are considering. And feedback is what will re-enforce those numbers or change them (assuming they are listening as they've been saying)

[TUXs]

I'm not the type to give a ultimatum. No song and dance required. It'll just be turned off.

That's great. TONS of customers are just like you...in fact, I'm like you. When I don't enjoy SWTOR any longer, I'll cancel my sub, remove my bookmark and move on to something else, never looking back. I may PM a few of the people I've enjoyed over the years, but that'll be it.

 

Until that time though...I'll post here because I DO enjoy the game, but the direction they're taking it is not a good one. If others want to voice the reasons they're quitting, let them...it's good freaking feedback that Bioware should want to have. It's not "tantrums", it's feedback brought about through frustration most likely, because NONE of us sub just to hate the game...we ALL had an interest in it and obviously still do if we're posting.

[leehambly]

Eric's post show what they are considering. And feedback is what will re-enforce those numbers or change them (assuming they are listening as they've been saying)

 

for clarity...

 

Everything listed below is an example and not necessarily what will be in-game, these are just representative of the way the system will work.

 

This means the numbers are made up. Doesn't mean they aren't right though... but that might just be a coincidence. We will have to wait and see.

Edited December 21, 2016 by leehambly

[leehambly]

Ok, so you'll just take whatever they give you and play or silently walk away. Your point is made that is your style. It isn't mine. I amke feedback because I want to stay in teh game, not jsut say "oh well, they didn't do what i wanted even though I kept quiet". I'll just go play another game.

I don't treat the game like a gift I take or leave. I use the forums for feedback as they requested, not as a place of business I should only say positive things as to not scare other customers away

 

Nope, its about the ultimata being thrown around left, right and centre. An ultimatum is a sign that something is already past the point of no return. Crying wolf if you like. That is how it can be viewed. Might as well ask for your post to be ignored.

Edited December 21, 2016 by leehambly

[Costello]

I find it hard to believe that they are Star Wars fans let alone passionate about making this the best Star Wars game possible.

 

I see nothing from the content that marks them as passionate about Star Wars, you can watch any show on TV and it will likely have more Star Wars references than you will see in ToR. If there are any 'Easter Eggs' they are amazingly well hidden, likewise I don't see any passion of any kind of even nods to popular culture.

 

If you were to do a write up on ToR and have a trivia section showing where the game paid homage to anything it would be bloody short probably limited to a droid on Hutta with no arms and some bounty hunter looking types on the deck of one of the Imperial ships.

 

If people are passionate about something then they put that little bit more effort or thought in to make it stand out, or to give a nod to the fans so if someone is in the know they they get a laugh out of it and see the development team are on the same wave length. If instead you hate your job and just want to clock off you do the bare minimum to get through and then get out.

 

The only thing the devs here appear passionate about is Mass Effect, with Reapers in the shape of the Eternal Fleet and a Geth inspired speeder for the Light Vs Dark reward.

 

As for listening and being humble, there doesn't seem to be much evidence of that in the game or on the forums. Has Charles ever come in to discuss the story with the players?

 

Last would be Galactic Command, so bad that it received its own shout out. How can you possibly tied a lateral progression system (Excellent idea) to gearing (which will become junk next level increase). The game needs a lateral progression system, there isn't the level of new content to keep people entertained, so they have to rehash old content and the best way to do this is to make it relevant by tying it to a progression system. Simple straightforward, all you then have to do is make every level on the new system worth some points to increase stats and people can grind away working towards more crit, damage or speed all great. Instead they tie a horrific grind of old content to random lock boxes that will become obsolete in a year which is probably less time than it takes to get the gear from the system.

 

It doesn't work and people start leaving so their solution make it so completing the hardest content in the game + a token grind can get you a piece of gear ((though statistically someone else will get it) that in all horribly bastard luck would have it will be the next piece you pull out of a crate) and call this working towards a specific piece. No thats completing an op and getting piece of gear, there is no working towards it. If you don't kill the last boss no amount of working will get you that piece of gear and if you lose out on the roll you haven't worked towards anything. The devs have replied on simply things that have confused people, perhaps someone that came up with this solution can explain how that is working towards anything. If you have bad luck with rng crates and bad luck with operation boss drops how is that working towards anything. You might run the operation 100 times and never win the roll, so how is that working towards anything your in the same place as someone that has never bothered running a NiM op.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Costello

[StupidWiz]

Indeed, absolutely! And as an adult have the good grace to just go...

 

You do not need to announce it to a bunch of randoms you have never met as some sort of life-changing event. You do not need to try to get other people to quit. You do not need to hold your sub over their heads like the sword of Damocles. And you definitely do not need to continually bleat on and on when steps have already been put in place to remedy the apparent concerns. If, in that respect, all of this comes down to differing priorities, approaches and styles... then yeah, maybe. I have enough experience to know that demanding things with an ultimatum isn't an good opening gambit in a negotiation.

 

People are now dissing an update they actually know next to nothing about, even the developers aren't sure yet (though they do see more sure today than in the livestream), they've been on it for about a week.

 

Could you imagine walking out of a shop that unfortunately couldn't fulfil your custom order precisely how you wanted it to be done, even though they don't do custom orders, and then ranting at every customer that goes in? Is that how an adult acts? That's a traffic barker, a window licker, w/e you wanna call it - he's an adult all right, but :/

Well said!