Really?

[Ryenke]

When you're next at that dictionary... look up "one eyed".

And also "honesty"... "former sub", that's fine - more than fine, everyone has their own thing to do, you are allowed to leave, but why are you here? Really. Would love to know.

 

Why am I here, really? Because I used to love this game. Because I started playing SWTOR a few months after my mother died and for several months there it was the only thing good in my life. Because this game deserves better than how it was butchered in 5.0.

 

Because even tho I know better, I can't squelch the hope something someone says might get through and into a devs head, the hope that someone at Bioware might see how bad this is and do something and the downward spiral might be stopped.

 

That is why, really.

[leehambly]

Why am I here, really? Because I used to love this game. Because I started playing SWTOR a few months after my mother died and for several months there it was the only thing good in my life. Because this game deserves better than how it was butchered in 5.0.

 

Because even tho I know better, I can't squelch the hope something someone says might get through and into a devs head, the hope that someone at Bioware might see how bad this is and do something and the downward spiral might be stopped.

 

That is why, really.

 

Have you played 5.0?

 

You can't squelch, but you'll damned well try to take a few more sub with you, right?

 

They have "listened" to an extremely vocal part of the community regarding 5.0, they had enough "humility" to backtrack on a decision and will continue to "monitor" the situation. For one, I was "excited" about the 5.0 changes, since the method of gearing imho had become rote and involved, often, dealing with pug ******s and meh generally... but now I'm "thrilled" to see the apparent reason why so many have left has a planned resolution. Did you miss an update?

 

We will see.

Edited December 21, 2016 by leehambly

[Sargrith]

When you're next at that dictionary... look up "one eyed".

And also "honesty"... "former sub", that's fine - more than fine, everyone has their own thing to do, you are allowed to leave, but why are you here? Really. Would love to know.

 

 

Same reason most of us are. This game could be worth playing if only the dev team wasn't determined to wreck it. If they actually listen, actually were humble, actually willing to abondon this crate system....than we could get back to playing. As is they have shown they won't listen, aren't humble and with these changes looking more like a shell game since it barely makes a difference....well they aren't appearing honest either.

[Ryenke]

Have you played 5.0?

 

You can't squelch, but you'll damned well try to take a few more sub with you, right?

 

Yes, I have played 5.0. I unsubscribed the day before early access became all sub access. A sub that had been continuously active since a few months before ROTHC hit. My subscription time runs out in 2017.

 

I'm not sure why my complete disagreement with the developers use of the words thrill and exciting to describe what I experience with RNG crates, my complete disbelief that the devs are humble or listening, or monitoring - why that makes you think I want to take a few more subs with me.

 

I assume each sub will make up their own mind whether the new allRNG SWTOR is worth their hard earned money. And I assume my posts are falling on deaf ears.

 

EDIT below to reply to part of your post that had not yet gone up when I quoted:

 

I see no evidence the developers have listened to anything. The stream and Erics post today clarifying the situation with PvE gearing unassembled pieces being all RNG (except for last boss) tells me that if they listened, they sure didn't understand.

 

And disappointment and dread is all I feel for each RNG crate. Disappointment and Dread do not equal Trhill and Exciting in my book.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Ryenke

[Sargrith]

They have "listened" to an extremely vocal part of the community regarding 5.0, they had enough "humility" to backtrack on a decision and will continue to "monitor" the situation. .

 

They have not. They totally ignored it. They didn't show humility in ignoring it they showed arrogance. You like the system by your own words. You can't then claim they listen to the group you keep trying to drive off as that group keeps saying they didn't listen with any authority.

[leehambly]

they have not. They totally ignored it. They didn't show humility in ignoring it they showed arrogance. You like the system by your own words. You can't then claim they listen to the group you keep trying to drive off as that group keeps saying they didn't listen with any authority.

 

... 5.1

[leehambly]

And disappointment and dread is all I feel for each RNG crate. Disappointment and Dread do not equal Trhill and Exciting in my book.

 

So are you a current sub or a former sub? Cos this dread for "each RNG crate" kinda indicates currency, and future.

Now, if only I had a dictionary. Being snippy is great, but it does come back and bite yer *** sometimes.

[Sargrith]

... 5.1

 

 

Is filled with meaningless changes....that's the point. Its a smoke screen meant to distract not fix. It isn't what people asked for its not even close. If they listened they would know that. So either they didn't listen or they ignored. You pick neither ends with them being honest.

[Ryenke]

So are you a current sub or a former sub? Cos this dread for "each RNG crate" kinda indicates currency, and future.

Now, if only I had a dictionary. Being snippy is great, but it does come back and bite yer *** sometimes.

 

I had a recurring subscription which I cancelled. I received a gift of a two month time card which I had added to my time just prior to 5.0 early access - so I had prepaid up through some time in February. I paid for that time, and I will probably play some (less and less each day it seems, we'll see) through that time. I thought KOTET was superb story so I will probably do those chapters on one or two alts before I say goodbye.

 

Since I cancelled my former subscription and removed my credit card from the account so that the last payment on my account was and will be November 2016, I consider myself a former subscriber who still has time on the books. If there is a better term for someone who is in that interim period I am willing to use it instead of "former subscriber".

[leehambly]

Is filled with meaningless changes....that's the point. Its a smoke screen meant to distract not fix. It isn't what people asked for its not even close. If they listened they would know that. So either they didn't listen or they ignored. You pick neither ends with them being honest.

 

The main problem was not being able to selectively spend gear tokens. Not only will you be able to do that in 5.1, but you will also be able to upgrade through the tiers. You are desperately looking for fault, this incoming change resolves that issue.

[leehambly]

I had a recurring subscription which I cancelled. I received a gift of a two month time card which I had added to my time just prior to 5.0 early access - so I had prepaid up through some time in February. I paid for that time, and I will probably play some (less and less each day it seems, we'll see) through that time. I thought KOTET was superb story so I will probably do those chapters on one or two alts before I say goodbye.

 

Since I cancelled my former subscription and removed my credit card from the account so that the last payment on my account was and will be November 2016, I consider myself a former subscriber who still has time on the books. If there is a better term for someone who is in that interim period I am willing to use it instead of "former subscriber".

 

Think the word you are looking for is "sub". It is a semantic point, but tbh you did start it.

Edited December 21, 2016 by leehambly

[kimiko_tomiyama]

The important part of the article is that he quit his job and moved to ANOTHER COUNTRY to follow his passion. I bet about 0 of you have ever had the guts to do that. But it's real easy to criticize on an anonymous forum.

 

Back in 2001 actually... Trust me on this... the language and culture of the country have a large impact on the difficulty. And somewhat irrelevant to the central argument of his proficiency in doing his job. I know people on both sides, competent at the job but struggling with the culture, and handing the move fine, but not that good at the job.

 

That being said, any project of this scale is a team effort and any accolades or vitriol should be shared. Moreover it is possible for somebody to be wrong for all the right reasons or right for all the wrong ones. I cannot see what is going on in the heads of the development team and, ironically therein lies a lot of the disdain in the game currently, myself included in that number. We don't know what they are thinking and rather than explaining it better or being more transparent, they at first seemed to double down and resort to canned phrases. "If you could see what we see, you'd be 'excited'. "We are watching closely." The only phrase that go missed was "We feel your pain."

 

Sadly, I cannot see them ever admitting that the crates were a major mistake, but I really hope that, by the time my sub comes up in early summer, they will have made some effort to address it.

[Ryenke]

The main problem was not being able to selectively spend gear tokens. Not only will you be able to do that in 5.1, but you will also be able to upgrade through the tiers. You are desperately looking for fault, this incoming change resolves that issue.

 

The main problem was not being able to selectively spend gear tokens because there are no gear tokens in 5.0. 5.1 will bring another go round with RNG (which in my opinion is the main problem with 5.0, the god awful grind being the secondary problem) to let one, if they are lucky, approximately a 1 out of 8 chance, fill in a selective piece of gear. In my opinion, that isn't even an improvement over the current system. Your mileage may vary.

 

But I haven't seen anyone or heard of anyone who would say "The main problem in 5.0 was not being able to selectively spend gear tokens" on a PVE side anyway. (perhaps that is true in the PVP side? I must admit I paid very little attention to that side of things because I do not enjoy pvp in SWTOR).

Edited December 21, 2016 by Ryenke

[Ryenke]

Think the word you are looking for is "sub". It is a semantic point, but tbh you did start it.

 

It is a semantic point, and if there were a word to describe someone who has unsubscribed such that they will no longer be paying for a service, but are in the window of time where the payment the person made in the past still covers the service, I'd certainly prefer it. Because I do not pay Bioware anymore: I do not consider my self a subscriber.

 

Again, your mileage may vary and it is a semantic point.

[leehambly]

The main problem was not being able to selectively spend gear tokens because there are no gear tokens in 5.0. 5.1 will bring another go round with RNG (which in my opinion is the main problem with 5.0, the god awful grind being the secondary problem) to let one, if they are lucky, approximately a 1 out of 8 chance, fill in a selective piece of gear. In my opinion, that isn't even an improvement over the current system. Your mileage may vary. But I haven't seen anyone or heard of anyone who would say "The main problem in 5.0 was not being able to selectively spend gear tokens" on a PVE side anyway. (perhaps that is true in the PVP side? I must admit I paid very little attention to that side of things because I do not enjoy pvp in SWTOR.

 

Well, if it isn't that, what the hell is the problem with the gear? Please, seriously, enlighten me.

[Ryenke]

Well, if it isn't that, what the hell is the problem with the gear? Please, seriously, enlighten me.

 

Ok, you asked for it.

 

I pretty much have two types of toons: Healers I used for raiding, and dps toons that I almost NEVER use in a raid but am more like the typical casual player: would do dailies, events etc. on. Different problems for the healer and the dps toons.

 

I can't gear my healers to raid in the current system.

 

Pub side healer was the fill-in/fall back healer to the regular 8 man progression team. If they had a healer on vacation or sick, I was good enough and (barely) geared enough to fill in. Problems: 1. RNG hates me, I will not have the gear to help a progression team and they are having enough trouble trying to gear themselves. 2. I don't have the time to devote to the grind to be able to get anything but the starter gear, and even then, with my RNG I could reasonably expect it to take 100 to 150 cxp levels to have complete STARTER set. Imp side healer usually pugged Hard Mode raids. I can't play that healer anymore because cxp on that toon is a loss for pub toon. So at best that toon will have the legacy items the pub healer gets but no off-hand/implants/relics/ear piece.

 

My dps toons I used to gear up with comm gear. This was fun for me. I'd set out goals - like where to use my blue comms vs. green comms, and slowly work them up to somewhat reasonable (tho not well balanced, I know) gear. Flashpoints would fill in enhancements and this was my 'fun time' in Swtor. Now in 5.0 problems 1. Can't play dps because that is cxp that main healer toon won't have to get pieces she needs. 2. No com gear anymore, just whatever RNG gives. So all the fun is gone. Why bother doing some bounties when I'm just going to disintegrate the crap I get anyway.

 

5.1 does nothing to help this at all. The grind is something I don't have time for. RNG means I can't work up a set of gear for fun, like I used to with my dps toons. RNG + a 1/8 chance one time a week in an op to get a specific piece means I won't have any unassembled pieces to use with the tokens I do get in crates.

 

I was hoping 5.1 would do something, anything to ameliorate the grind + RNG that utterly ruined SWTOR for me. But all it did was add an additional grind and RNG layer to supplement the command crate gearing - it did not offer an alternate route.

 

(And the ninja pug problem in ops in 5.1 is going to keep me from doing any raiding with pug groups, so what is the point.)

Edited December 21, 2016 by Ryenke

[Sargrith]

The main problem was not being able to selectively spend gear tokens. Not only will you be able to do that in 5.1, but you will also be able to upgrade through the tiers. You are desperately looking for fault, this incoming change resolves that issue.

 

You have no idea do you? Being guaranteed one piece in an eight person run....seriously. That's just insulting. And you still need their garabage tokens to get it? Yeah, meaningless smoke screen. Not even remotely a fix. I don't want to spend gear tokens, I don't want to have gear tokens involved in anyway shape or form. I want zero to do with their command crate system. That is what was asked for, that is not what was given.

[Zhedzaban]

Well, if it isn't that, what the hell is the problem with the gear? Please, seriously, enlighten me.

 

I think your right in that some people are just looking for excuses to unsub. They really don't need an excuse, if your unhappy you should leave but keep an eye on things to see if they improve. You can always come back, but staying and being miserable is just punishing yourself for no reason.

 

I've said this before on a different thread, where for whatever reason some players won't be happy unless they can fully gear all their toons in 2 weeks. It's ridiculous. And anyway what's the rush? Are all the raiders so dead set keen to get back into doing NM ops? The same ops you have been doing for 3+ years now? If there was new content I'd kind of understand the hurry, but there isn't so I just don't get it.

[leehambly]

Ok, you asked for it.

 

I pretty much have two types of toons: Healers I used for raiding, and dps toons that I almost NEVER use in a raid but am more like the typical casual player: would do dailies, events etc. on. Different problems for the healer and the dps toons.

 

I can't gear my healers to raid in the current system.

 

Pub side healer was the fill-in/fall back healer to the regular 8 man progression team. If they had a healer on vacation or sick, I was good enough and (barely) geared enough to fill in. Problems: 1. RNG hates me, I will not have the gear to help a progression team and they are having enough trouble trying to gear themselves. 2. I don't have the time to devote to the grind to be able to get anything but the starter gear, and even then, with my RNG I could reasonably expect it to take 100 to 150 cxp levels to have complete STARTER set. Imp side healer usually pugged Hard Mode raids. I can't play that healer anymore because cxp on that toon is a loss for pub toon. So at best that toon will have the legacy items the pub healer gets but no off-hand/implants/relics/ear piece.

 

My dps toons I used to gear up with comm gear. This was fun for me. I'd set out goals - like where to use my blue comms vs. green comms, and slowly work them up to somewhat reasonable (tho not well balanced, I know) gear. Flashpoints would fill in enhancements and this was my 'fun time' in Swtor. Now in 5.0 problems 1. Can't play dps because that is cxp that main healer toon won't have to get pieces she needs. 2. No com gear anymore, just whatever RNG gives. So all the fun is gone. Why bother doing some bounties when I'm just going to disintegrate the crap I get anyway.

 

5.1 does nothing to help this at all. The grind is something I don't have time for. RNG means I can't work up a set of gear for fun, like I used to with my dps toons. RNG + a 1/8 chance one time a week in an op to get a specific piece means I won't have any unassembled pieces to use with the tokens I do get in crates.

 

I was hoping 5.1 would do something, anything to ameliorate the grind + RNG that utterly ruined SWTOR for me. But all it did was add an additional grind and RNG layer to supplement the command crate gearing - it did not offer an alternate route.

 

(And the ninja pug problem in ops in 5.1 is going to keep me from doing any raiding with pug groups, so what is the point.)

 

Ok, so one at a time.

Your existing 4.0 set pieces (the armouring) are more than sufficient for HM raiding. The diff between 6x4.0 set pieces and 6x5.0 is less than a single augment mk-10. Likewise the rest of your raid team. Have you even tried to raid yet? Nim raids were done on release day in 4.0 gear :/

 

RNG was throughout 3.0 and 4.0 JUST not per raid, only per player. You would often, as a raider, walk away with nothing. And yes, the ninja problem is and always has been there.

 

If the feeling of progression was all that the token loot gave you and amassing a huge stack of unused tokens was the only reason you were raiding, then idk... I simply don't know what to say to that. Seems like your interest was waning already... and this is the crux of the matter... stop using the RNG as an excuse for your waning interest. Agreed, there is a lack of new group content. But using the rng cxp loot system as a reason why you cannot CONTINUE doing ops form 4.0 to 5.0 is well, its indicative of not trying at all.

 

5.1 allows the unlucky to be able to fill in those gaps. I see it as a good option, and cannot wait to see exactly how they are going to implement it, since its not 100% crystal clear atm.

 

Finally (cos I'm off for a bit after this and responding to the other two above), you have to be honest with yourself at the end of the day: Is it the loot system or content? I could not and would not have a single response if your response is "group content", other than maybe "yeah... they need to sort that". You cannot blame the loot for this though.

Edited December 21, 2016 by leehambly

[leehambly]

You have no idea do you? Being guaranteed one piece in an eight person run....seriously. That's just insulting. And you still need their garabage tokens to get it? Yeah, meaningless smoke screen. Not even remotely a fix. I don't want to spend gear tokens, I don't want to have gear tokens involved in anyway shape or form. I want zero to do with their command crate system. That is what was asked for, that is not what was given.

 

Thing is it is not black and white is it.

 

Granted, if only the last boss is a guaranteed drop then yes that isn't a great return. However, they have said they want the highest level, most difficult group content to be rewarded with the most cxp. If that is the case, people will be whistling through these, much like they were in 3.0 and 4.0... 4 man runs, main hand only runs... this is not new content (yes, I know that's the real problem) and people know it inside out. These so called HM Ops teams that cannot do it in 5.0, with at least 4.0 gear, should be hanging their heads in shame.

 

And as well as that one guaranteed loot, which will be upgradable(!) - so you don't even need to run HM's - each member will be getting shedloads of cxp AND also the other 4-6 potential drops.

 

Maybe this will take you back to a time when you ran the content for fun, for a laugh, ***** and giggles with your mates? Rather than simply getting in line for yet another unneeded set piece token?

 

So, yeah... tbh with the final sentence in your comment... you are after a taxi and this is a bus. Taxi line, frankly, is another game. Doesn't work like that. They weren't speaking solely to you, they were speaking to the entire playerbase and also ensuring some amount of integrity is maintained. And you know this... within a week of 5.1, there will be pugs grinding the end boss on Ops, parking chars and yet again, a pointless, unnecessary gear grind will begin... regardless of the fact that its near as dammit identical to what you already have and mostly unnecessary for what it is apparently preventing people from doing.

[leehambly]

I think your right in that some people are just looking for excuses to unsub. They really don't need an excuse, if your unhappy you should leave but keep an eye on things to see if they improve. You can always come back, but staying and being miserable is just punishing yourself for no reason.

 

I've said this before on a different thread, where for whatever reason some players won't be happy unless they can fully gear all their toons in 2 weeks. It's ridiculous. And anyway what's the rush? Are all the raiders so dead set keen to get back into doing NM ops? The same ops you have been doing for 3+ years now? If there was new content I'd kind of understand the hurry, but there isn't so I just don't get it.

 

Innit :/

[Sargrith]

Thing is it is not black and white is it.

 

Same old tired bull.......

 

it is black and white. They either listened and take random crate junk out of gearing Or they don't. They didn't so they didn't. That was what was asked for, they didn't do that so we know clearly how well they listened and how humble they are. We also know how honest they are.

 

Your defense of them not listening could be copy pasted from a dozen different "fans of their system." It hasn't been persuasive in the past before they released their " 5.1 we're humble and listening patch" and it still isn't.

[leehambly]

it is black and white. They either listened and take random crate junk out of gearing Or they don't. They didn't so they didn't. That was what was asked for, they didn't do that so we know clearly how well they listened and how humble they are. We also know how honest they are.

 

Your defense of them not listening could be copy pasted from a dozen different "fans of their system." It hasn't been persuasive in the past before they released their " 5.1 we're humble and listening patch" and it still isn't.

 

What an interesting world you live in... So, this conversation YOU had with them... is there a transcript the rest of us can read pls?

Edited December 21, 2016 by leehambly

[Zasszz]

I agree with the OP that the devs arent humble but instead very arrogant. I watched at least 4 dev live streams and then couldnt take the giggling about the command system any longer. Revisiting the same thing over and over and over. Why? Because they knew they couldnt reveal "more" from the story. They knew they had nothing else for the players. So the only thing left to be "excited" about was the idea of opening a crate we have to grind for as a replacement for the missing alternative content. Long time players arent excited at all once the story is done 2-3 times. There is nothing left to do.

 

Ive seen more new things to do in a content patch in the middle of a 6 month old expansion in other MMOs. 5.0 is a joke and the devs pretend its the 8th world wonder. I hate what they do to this game.

[Sargrith]

What an interesting world you live in... So, this conversation YOU had with them... is there a transcript the rest of us can read pls?

 

I'm sorry you cannot open the threads in which people let them know how they felt about this random crate junk. It must be a challenge for you to open this one. I don't want to burden you with having to try anymore so I will just not bother to respond to your posts, you clearly have nothing to add to this topic since we're talking about changes requested by the community you seem to know nothing about.