Lhancelot Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) Been awhile since I logged into swtor, long story short, after many years of devotion I stopped my sub months ago and took my money and time elsewhere. Just curious when the new patch (5.0) came out, and how the classes are balance-wise in PVP? In comparison to the past how is it now? Also, is the gear grind the same for PVP? Soak up tokens from warzones, buy gears, aug the gears, change mods and enhancements? Have they improved the effectiveness of some stats in PVP, such as defensive stats for tanks or are tanks basically just DPS that can guard still? I see merc/commandos got a buff, this was one of the reasons I quit awhile back, because of this class being one of my favorites yet always was subpar especially in ranked (solo). Anyway, lots of questions here, any input would be nice. Just curious if I should give it a spin, or if I am better off just leaving it alone. Edited December 18, 2016 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teclado Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Hey Lhance, good to see you around again! Just curious when the new patch (5.0) came out, and how the classes are balance-wise in PVP? In comparison to the past how is it now? Early access was Nov 29th, official launch was Dec 2nd. Class balance is this: Mercs are unkillable and everywhere (no I am not joking), and that pretty much sums it up haha. Mara, Sniper, and Assassin are in a pretty good place. PT and Jugg are the new favorites to focus in arenas and generally get wrecked by mercs. Sorc healers are still the best pvp healers, although it's probably not by a huge margin. Sorc dps is pretty weak. Operatives are kind of ok. Also, is the gear grind the same for PVP? Soak up tokens from warzones, buy gears, aug the gears, change mods and enhancements? Haha, NOPE! There is no such thing as warzone commendations, there is no such thing as pvp gear. They got rid of expertise. Currently, all new gear comes from "Command Crates" that you get when you level up your "Galactic Command" level. You do this by playing stuff in game, including running warzones. When you hit level 70, your XP bar turns into a Command XP (CXP) bar. There are 300 levels. Every time you gain a level, you get a crate. When you open the crate, you will always get one gear piece along with a few other junk items. The gear piece is random and can be green, blue, or purple (quite rare - about 1/20 or so chance to get a purple piece). No, I am not making this stuff up. Yes, it is terrible. Fortunately, there are some improvements coming. Have they improved the effectiveness of some stats in PVP, such as defensive stats for tanks or are tanks basically just DPS that can guard still? Nope, still the same. And gearing a tank in that manner is basically impossible now, unless you pay 100 million or more on crafted mods. The good news is that people seem to agree that bolster is working surprisingly well. I see merc/commandos got a buff, this was one of the reasons I quit awhile back, because of this class being one of my favorites yet always was subpar especially in ranked (solo). Oh man, you are in for a treat then. Mercs got a new ability that can be used while stunned and absorbs all single target damage, reflects some of it back to the attacker, and heals you. Also, there are a few ridiculously good new utility points. One will make your Energy Shield heal you for 75% of your max health when it expires. Another makes Kolto Overload heal you up to 70% (rather than 35%). So basically, if used well, you can have three heal-to-full type abilities. Mercs have better defensives than Juggs now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Been awhile since I logged into swtor, long story short, after many years of devotion I stopped my sub months ago and took my money and time elsewhere. Hello again Just curious when the new patch (5.0) came out, and how the classes are balance-wise in PVP? In comparison to the past how is it now? Not too bad, I know there is a lot of crying about Mercs being OP currently, however that always happens when you tend to get more of one specific class turning up for the party. I'm sure if people had been up against 4 snipers or 4 operatives then they would be rethinking about who is OP currently. Some bugged utilities are making operative healers pretty nigh on unkillable atm Also, is the gear grind the same for PVP? Soak up tokens from warzones, buy gears, aug the gears, change mods and enhancements? PvP / PvE gear is the same and is earned the same way. It's a grind and a half, 5.1 may possibly mitigate this slightly but the whole gearing system is fundamentally flawed even with the incoming changes. Have they improved the effectiveness of some stats in PVP, such as defensive stats for tanks or are tanks basically just DPS that can guard still? Same, stances are gone as well, so DPS can actually guard as DPS. I see merc/commandos got a buff, this was one of the reasons I quit awhile back, because of this class being one of my favorites yet always was subpar especially in ranked (solo). YMMV. They got the hard swap mechanic required, players are slowly learning that continuing to bash the merc isn't really going to work that well. Utilities have been re-ordered and finally feel like they've been given some love and attention rather than just slapped into a slot. Utilities themselves? We've been given some new ones to work for improving survivability, such as Kolto working to heal us up to 70%, Shield buff to heal us after the 12s if players keep going at us, a new reflect that heals us (that one is dubious that we required it tbh). Essentially you get to stay up longer and finally do some damage, you don't just crumble even with DCDs up like you did pre.5.0. Anyway, lots of questions here, any input would be nice. Just curious if I should give it a spin, or if I am better off just leaving it alone. YMMV. Worth a peek purely for the Merc changes. The frustration is still there, especially in Ranked with the players who are just there for easy CXP levelling and have no intention of playing properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bob- Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Been awhile since I logged into swtor, long story short, after many years of devotion I stopped my sub months ago and took my money and time elsewhere. Just curious when the new patch (5.0) came out, and how the classes are balance-wise in PVP? In comparison to the past how is it now? Also, is the gear grind the same for PVP? Soak up tokens from warzones, buy gears, aug the gears, change mods and enhancements? Have they improved the effectiveness of some stats in PVP, such as defensive stats for tanks or are tanks basically just DPS that can guard still? I see merc/commandos got a buff, this was one of the reasons I quit awhile back, because of this class being one of my favorites yet always was subpar especially in ranked (solo). Anyway, lots of questions here, any input would be nice. Just curious if I should give it a spin, or if I am better off just leaving it alone. Howdy Lhance, you've been given the rundown on gear grind and class balance etc.. I don't mind these things too much, what really irks me about this new system is all the PVE Sandbaggers that are in WZs now. I'm seeing a new level of * I won't even try* So many people join and then sit on a node and afk. Vote to kick is still useless. These people aren't interested in actually competing in matches, they just want to get them over with for quick Command XP. It's even worse for ranked, these guys enter and / stuck for a quick end. Similar to getting your companion via Warzones. It's annoyed me enough that ive cancelled my sub. Competitive PVP has always been an issue in relation to class balance and matchmaking but this just feels ridiculous. I'm not interested in getting frustrated over something so pointless so i'm out. Good Luck to you if you resub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) Great, thanks for the detailed explanation Teclado, Bob and Transcendent! I might make a lowbie just to try to acclimate to the game again. I miss PVP (flawed as it always has been here). I am surprised sorcs still rule the healing house though! And, sorc dps is bad now? What changes did they do to sorcs btw, I always enjoyed sorc healers and dps with my mercs/commandos the most. So, mercs got vast buffage, and somehow dps sorcs got nerfed? The gear grind sounds weird, so why did they get away from the old type of gear grind, with ranked wzs etc., did they ever mention why they made this change? Not complaining, just curious if they had an explanation. Anyway, thanks and good to see some vintage vets still here on the forums. Edited December 18, 2016 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Great, thanks for the detailed explanation Teclado, Bob and Transcendent! I might make a lowbie just to try to acclimate to the game again. I miss PVP (flawed as it always has been here). I am surprised sorcs still rule the healing house though! And, sorc dps is bad now? What changes did they do to sorcs btw, I always enjoyed sorc healers and dps with my mercs/commandos the most. So, mercs got vast buffage, and somehow dps sorcs got nerfed? The gear grind sounds weird, so why did they get away from the old type of gear grind, with ranked wzs etc., did they ever mention why they made this change? Not complaining, just curious if they had an explanation. Anyway, thanks and good to see some vintage vets still here on the forums. They want you to be able to get gear however you want. In 5.1, they're reintroducing "tokens" as another way to get gear, but you will still get gear from command crates like how it is currently. In 5.1, you can work towards specific pieces from ops bosses and with a currency from warzones that you can use to get specific pieces though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 The gear grind sounds weird, so why did they get away from the old type of gear grind, with ranked wzs etc., did they ever mention why they made this change? Not complaining, just curious if they had an explanation. Promise you will not laugh? The vendor GUI was too complicated. Sadly I'm not even joking about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Great, thanks for the detailed explanation Teclado, Bob and Transcendent! I might make a lowbie just to try to acclimate to the game again. I miss PVP (flawed as it always has been here). I am surprised sorcs still rule the healing house though! And, sorc dps is bad now? What changes did they do to sorcs btw, I always enjoyed sorc healers and dps with my mercs/commandos the most. Sorc Healers are still just a tad above the others, but that's because their healing powers just plain have better synergy with PvP than the others and that hasn't changed. Merc healers are near invulnerable and the best of them are really doing well, so much so that I challenge the idea that there's still a material difference between them and Sorcs. Operative healers seem to be doing a tad better, but not a lot of changes to Operative heals. As for Sorc DPS, it's just plain that they don't do enough damage to make up for the increase in survivability that many specs have now. They nerfed nearly every damage and healing power Sorcerers have by about 3-7%. They nerfed Corrupted Barrier (heal on Barrier) so that it's really not that useful anymore. Only real upside for Sorc DPS is that they unnerfed Force Speed (back to base 20 sec. CD) but that's lost in the sea of nerfs. I'm pretty happy though. The whining has moved to Mercs and the FOTM rollers have moved on. So, mercs got vast buffage, and somehow dps sorcs got nerfed? That's the long and the short of it. The gear grind sounds weird, so why did they get away from the old type of gear grind, with ranked wzs etc., did they ever mention why they made this change? Not complaining, just curious if they had an explanation. Anyway, thanks and good to see some vintage vets still here on the forums. Honestly, Bolster really seems to be doing its job now. With the removal of Expertise, it seems that implementing Bolster appropriately is easier for them. So personally, I just don't care about gear. I just use my 208s until I get a piece of tier set bonus gear to swap out. It's not so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) Promise you will not laugh? The vendor GUI was too complicated. Sadly I'm not even joking about that. Naw that wasn't it. What was is that gearing was a mess even though it wouldn't seem like it if you had been around and keeping up. Gearing makes a lot of sense if you understood it, but not so much if you were new or just coming into the game. Remember the game didn't do anything at all to really inform you how and where to gear. So you hit level cap and just were expected to know what to do. Sure, we knew what to do because we've been here through all the iterations. But for people who don't frequent these forums and aren't obsessive about this stuff it was sort of overwhelming. It didn't help that PvE token gear was atrociously itemized on purpose. The new system is very easy, but that ease comes with a big lack of control over gearing. And for many veteran MMORPG players, that loss of control is extremely off-putting. Edited December 18, 2016 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banderal Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Welcome back Lhancelot! I have nothing much to add to the info that's already been given. I don't think this has been mentioned, though... if you have any 65's laying around that had old PvP gear, you'll be in mid's with gear that works fine with bolster, and you'll have your old set bonuses. Kinda nice for you. Kinda sucks for the pre-65s that are now in mids with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) But for people who don't frequent these forums and aren't obsessive about this stuff it was sort of overwhelming. It didn't help that PvE token gear was atrociously itemized on purpose. Well, that is essentially the same thing. Vendor GUI and tooltips are hard to read after all, I mean it's also hard to use Google to learn something as well. So it isn't really any surprise that this game has been dumbed down a lot over the last couple of years (/s). I still think if they had layered the new system over the old one and let players choose their own path for gearing it would have gone better. 40+ Command Ranks in and I've only had one piece of set bonus gear, so I'm not overly impressed. Edited December 18, 2016 by Transcendent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) Well, that is essentially the same thing. Vendor GUI and tooltips are hard to read after all, I mean it's also hard to use Google to learn something as well. So it isn't really any surprise that this game has been dumbed down a lot over the last couple of years (/s). I still think if they had layered the new system over the old one and let players choose their own path for gearing it would have gone better. 40+ Command Ranks in and I've only had one piece of set bonus gear, so I'm not overly impressed. As time passes the systems flaws are proving numerous for sure... At this point I am Disintegrating 90 to 100% of everything in the GC crates and most folks I talk to are doing the same. Players disintegrating everything in the packs or even a majority percentage basically shows the system is awful and pointless. The only thing I keep from the packs is the reputation tokens.... and the occasional set piece which so far has been 1 belt and 1 bracer on 2 different characters with a cumulative rank of approx. 35'ish... My guild is setting up an Ops group though we are mainly a PvP guild...with the changes to the system coming we decided we need to fire up an Ops group and farm them for gear... Ultimately the system doesn't deliver an experience where you acquire gear by playing your preferred content because the gains are all over the place and soon to be heavily tilted towards specific tasks once again...Operations and group PvP to insure wins (optimal CXP and gear acquisition). Seems more like early MMO design than new innovative design...this tack on system would have been fine if they just left it at the tokens for gear but they had to add a punishment mechanic.... So many possibilities and somehow they chose to find another way to make gearing cumbersome and through the hoop... Edited December 19, 2016 by Soljin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Seems more like early MMO design than new innovative design.. Change for the sake of change. Also making it an endgame gearing only thing, as in you can only start once you've reached endgame isn't an improvement. Excluding pref. or f2p from the system as well. Not an obvious move to improve gearing which I feel was almost in the right place in 4.0. That seemed like it was the one thing they got right with 4.0, now it's swapped in 5.0 and the story was the thing they got right. Aside from improving merc / mando survivability in PvP, which is the only reason I'm here still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazz_Devlin Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Uber uber uber crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazz_Devlin Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Naw that wasn't it. What was is that gearing was a mess even though it wouldn't seem like it if you had been around and keeping up. Gearing makes a lot of sense if you understood it, but not so much if you were new or just coming into the game. Remember the game didn't do anything at all to really inform you how and where to gear. So you hit level cap and just were expected to know what to do. Sure, we knew what to do because we've been here through all the iterations. But for people who don't frequent these forums and aren't obsessive about this stuff it was sort of overwhelming. It didn't help that PvE token gear was atrociously itemized on purpose. The new system is very easy, but that ease comes with a big lack of control over gearing. And for many veteran MMORPG players, that loss of control is extremely off-putting. and you don't see the problem with this bull$hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 Welcome back Lhancelot! I have nothing much to add to the info that's already been given. I don't think this has been mentioned, though... if you have any 65's laying around that had old PvP gear, you'll be in mid's with gear that works fine with bolster, and you'll have your old set bonuses. Kinda nice for you. Kinda sucks for the pre-65s that are now in mids with you. Thanks man, good to see you Banderal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 and you don't see the problem with this bull$hit Honestly if they would have awarded a set piece at set intervals the system would be perfect. I would have given set pieces out at: 1 - belt 8 - bracers 15 - boots Etc. till Tier 1 was done Then start again at 101, 108, etc. for tier two. I see the problem to answer your question, I'm just not personally upset by it. I don't have a problem with the concept, just the implementation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Honestly if they would have awarded a set piece at set intervals the system would be perfect. I would have given set pieces out at: 1 - belt 8 - bracers 15 - boots Etc. till Tier 1 was done Then start again at 101, 108, etc. for tier two. I see the problem to answer your question, I'm just not personally upset by it. I don't have a problem with the concept, just the implementation. Huh! Yeah this wold have worked...Seems obvious after you pointed it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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