Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) I think for many of us, we owe Charles an apology. While I ultimately did feel that KOTET had a stronger story in terms of pacing, relevance and player choice, I also believe some of our criticisms of KOTFE were misinterpreted, harsh, and unfair. A lot of folks complained that the monthly chapters came across as "filler" and that the pacing was incredibly slow at times. Part of the explanation for this was due to these chapters being centered around returning companions instead of the main plot, and I think that led to an assumption among many of us, including BioWare, that we did not want companions to interfere with the story. That could not be further from the truth. I can only speak for myself, but I've been an avid fan of BioWare since Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic released in 2003. The one aspect of BioWare games that I love above all else is the characters you meet along your journey. Whether it's Carth throwing a temper tantrum, Garrus making a sarcastic remark, Varric embellishing another story, or even Lana constantly trying to micromanage the situation, we, the gamer, grow with these characters and truly begin to care for them (or detest them in the case of Carth). For me, what largely made the class stories in SWTOR so memorable were the companions and the roles they played. That's largely been absent from the game since launch. Companions had no role in ROTHC or SOR and only a handful of our companions had a role in KOTFE/KOTET. I think that many would likely agree with me that in future story content a focus on the returning of our remaining companions (as well as keeping the ones already returned relevant) would be something a lot of players want and look forward to. I believe focusing on the class companions could kill two birds with one stone: introducing characters many players already love as well as providing more personal flare to the story by different classes seeing old companions or love interests. I'd also desperately urge you, Charles, to reconsider monthly chapters. In my opinion, having a new chapter of story every month gave me something to be excited for and another reason to log in. Before KOTFE, I would just unsubscribe after a while as there was nothing to look forward to. However, the monthly chapters gave me a reason to stay subscribed. While I understand there is also a pressure for new group content, which I am in support of, I don't see why we can't still continue monthly chapters while also sprinkling in more uprisings or other forms of group content along the way when they are ready. If it's just a budgetary and staffing issue, then I can understand the team's constraints. Either way, I just wanted to apologize and say thanks to you, as well as the rest of the writing team at BioWare Austin, for all of the great stories you have written and continue to write. These are just my own personal remarks coming from an avid, long-time BioWare fan, a dedicated, long-time MMO fan, and of course a life-long, die-hard Star Wars fan. Edited December 9, 2016 by Aowin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I would sub for monthly chapters and companion alerts. But since we finished the Eternal Throne, maybe the monthly chapters can be like the epilogue, or prelude to the next expansion. And we still the rest of our companions. Surely the point of the alert system is to cut costs where you do not have to voice your main character and add new cutscenes? If so, why is there seemingly some hesitance in using this cheap content to its fullest? But wow, how can they top this expansion? You're the master of the galaxy now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngFour Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) /signed ETA: I don't want the LI's coming back via Alliance Alert. Make Zenith come back that way or something, but to get the LI's back in Interlude type chapters, like the HK one (BUT NOT behind a "Sub for 6 months and you'll get a Vector Hyllus bonus chapter!" Please, God, no) would be aces. I'd totally resub if I hear something like this is in the works. Edited December 9, 2016 by AngFour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 I would sub for monthly chapters and companion alerts. But since we finished the Eternal Throne, maybe the monthly chapters can be like the epilogue, or prelude to the next expansion. And we still the rest of our companions. Surely the point of the alert system is to cut costs where you do not have to voice your main character and add new cutscenes? If so, why is there seemingly some hesitance in using this cheap content to its fullest? But wow, how can they top this expansion? You're the master of the galaxy now. Likewise. It really was great knowing a new chapter of BioWare Story would come every month. It broke up the monotony of doing warzones, flashpoints, dailies, or operations over and over. I think that would be a fantastic idea. Unfortunately, we already know we aren't going to get anymore story until the next expansion. I do think one of the aspects missing from KOTET was a satisfying epilogue. Alliance alerts have generally been used for the less popular companions or the ones who can't speak basic. Since BioWare has saved many of the popular ones for last, including most of the love interests, I can't see them being relegated to a simple alliance alert. I think because we are the peacekeeper/emperor of the eternal fleet, it's a great time to make a much more personal story about the people we know. There is no new, looming threat over our heads, so I think that gives BioWare flexibility to do different kinds of storytelling. A great example of what I'm referring to are the loyalty missions that were in ME2 and DAI, of which focused a great amount of detail on the specific companions in your party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 /signed ETA: I don't want the LI's coming back via Alliance Alert. Make Zenith come back that way or something, but to get the LI's back in Interlude type chapters, like the HK one (BUT NOT behind a "Sub for 6 months and you'll get a Vector Hyllus bonus chapter!" Please, God, no) would be aces. I'd totally resub if I hear something like this is in the works. Agreed. Love interests are too important to be relegated to mere "alliance alert" status. That works with less popular companions or the ones that don't speak basic, but not for anybody else. All of the major companions deserve to be front in center in the story and I'm sure Charles and the rest of the writing team agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 NOTE: there may be some mild spoilers in this post, so PLEASE do not read it if you have not played KotET and do not want the story spoiled for you I would like to say that....aside from one chapter I hated (mainly based on how it was set up, forced encounters, boss fights, etc) the story was superb....AFTER I took it all as one block. Chapter by chapter, not so much, but as a fluid storyline it was fantastic. I credit the story, dialog, even the choreography. Now, there was quite a bit about the storyline that was NOT fun, and a few spots where I think some opportunities to dial up the fun a bit was missed, but overall it was a great effort... ...as one block. It was not as good in single bites. Kotet fixed most of what was wrong with Kotfe IMO. More interesting variety of mission types Vehicular combat (fantastic IMO) Choices that had more of an impact (though i dare say not quite to the "matter" point yet, but close) VERY interesting and engaging battle setups, with wave battles, stage battles that were far more fluid, open battlefields with enemy fronts and a large presence of help, like in my original class stories. Not as many forced encounters that seemed worthless Ability to recruit animals to help (that was HUGE fun IMO) There were still a few flaws, including the end boss fight IMO, but overall it was fantastic....and was put out in one block, as KofFE should have been IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 You know what I miss? Companion missions. The ones where we'd go and help our companion do something important, like kick out a cheapskate tenant from their 3000 year old reptilian muscle mountain, or decide whether to carve a Hutt into small pieces for revenge. Those are what I miss the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 There were still a few flaws, including the end boss fight IMO, but overall it was fantastic....and was put out in one block, as KofFE should have been IMO. I definitely respect that you prefer the "binge" approach. That being said, when I stated a return to monthly chapters, that doesn't necessarily have to do with the main plot of an expansion. As someone suggested above, these monthly chapters could be an epilogue to the current expansion and a prelude to the next one. They could be conceived as a "buffer" of sorts just so we aren't deprived of story for an entire year. In my personal opinion, the HK Bonus chapter was by far the best chapter in KOTFE, and that had nothing to do with the main plot of the story. I think many would agree and enjoy those kind of chapters in the interim between the main expansion stories. I enjoyed KOTET, but it was far too brief and having to wait another year for more story is utterly demoralizing. Monthly chapters gave me something to look forward to, even if the KOTFE ones had some issues (not because of companions). I think they can be done right and I'd like to see BioWare do them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 You know what I miss? Companion missions. The ones where we'd go and help our companion do something important, like kick out a cheapskate tenant from their 3000 year old reptilian muscle mountain, or decide whether to carve a Hutt into small pieces for revenge. Those are what I miss the most. That really aligns with what I'm addressing with regard to companions. Some of the best storytelling moments are getting to know your companions and interacting with them. We just haven't had any of those moments truly since launch. I'd like to see a return to that, having more in-depth and interesting relationships with these characters. I think it's a great time now to do so with where we are in the story and as I suggested to the poster above, I could potentially even see something like that happening for monthly chapters in-between expansions that focus on bigger story plots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardera Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 i dont owe bioware nothing i pay 14.99 a month for a lackluster game and the story is all we got right now so it better be GREAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkashepard Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I would prefer it if companion reintroduction are limited to class/faction rather than giving Outlander all companions in every classes (I have enough comps already!!). Have several characters play the same role in the story, like characters sharing the same background (force-users/military etc) and they share the same plot (like Kaidan/Ashley in Mass Effect). So they don't have to use more unique resources to fit each and every character into the story (as in Alliance alert). I wouldn't mind my Wrath meeting Lord Scourge but why should she care about Ashara, Raina, Elara, Doc, Kira, Corso, Akavi, Risha, Tharan, Mako, Nadia, Zenith, Andronikos, Felix... my god.... even Khem Val/Zash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 I would prefer it if companion reintroduction are limited to class/faction rather than giving Outlander all companions in every classes (I have enough comps already!!). Have several characters play the same role in the story, like characters sharing the same background (force-users/military etc) and they share the same plot (like Kaidan/Ashley in Mass Effect). So they don't have to use more unique resources to fit each and every character into the story (as in Alliance alert). I wouldn't mind my Wrath meeting Lord Scourge but why should she care about Ashara, Raina, Elara, Doc, Kira, Corso, Akavi, Risha, Tharan, Mako, Nadia, Zenith, Andronikos, Felix... my god.... even Khem Val/Zash. I definitely understand what you are saying (some of those companions I don't care very much about even though I've done all the class stories). That being said, BioWare already set a precedent with half of the companions returning and they seem to want to give everybody access to every class companion in the game. I'm not necessarily against it if each companion is brought back in a compelling way. Some of those companions you listed could still be brought back in alliance alerts, so I don't think it would necessarily be an issue of resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGitzDmC Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I would sub for monthly chapters and companion alerts. But since we finished the Eternal Throne, maybe the monthly chapters can be like the epilogue, or prelude to the next expansion. And we still the rest of our companions. Surely the point of the alert system is to cut costs where you do not have to voice your main character and add new cutscenes? If so, why is there seemingly some hesitance in using this cheap content to its fullest? But wow, how can they top this expansion? You're the master of the galaxy now. Great idea. They could introduce somehow old companions in a way that's neither an Alliance Alert or a full Chapter. Somewhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthWoad Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) In my opinion, having a new chapter of story every month gave me something to be excited for and another reason to log in. But I thought the RNG boxes were enough reason for you to log in anyway? SWTOR doesn't need new story content. It needs more RNG content because the newcomers already have lots of story to get through, and RNG is great, right Aowin? The game is set up in such a way that benefits the veteran over everybody else. You said it yourself....so why add MORE story content. New players will have all this story to get through, it would be very confusing for them to remember everything Edited December 9, 2016 by DarthWoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGitzDmC Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I would prefer it if companion reintroduction are limited to class/faction rather than giving Outlander all companions in every classes (I have enough comps already!!). Have several characters play the same role in the story, like characters sharing the same background (force-users/military etc) and they share the same plot (like Kaidan/Ashley in Mass Effect). So they don't have to use more unique resources to fit each and every character into the story (as in Alliance alert). I wouldn't mind my Wrath meeting Lord Scourge but why should she care about Ashara, Raina, Elara, Doc, Kira, Corso, Akavi, Risha, Tharan, Mako, Nadia, Zenith, Andronikos, Felix... my god.... even Khem Val/Zash. First, sorry for the double post lol I don't agree with your opinion, but you gave me an idea. Even if I only use 2-4 companions per toon, I love to have as many as I can. Feels better. They could perhaps introduce important companions (story or lore-wise) like Lord Scourge, plus romance companions for the sole purpose of continuing our romances (or not) in a good way, something that could not happen in an Alliance Alert. Other characters that might not be as relevant can come back in an Alliance Alert, like Zenith, Tharan, Vik, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 First, sorry for the double post lol I don't agree with your opinion, but you gave me an idea. Even if I only use 2-4 companions per toon, I love to have as many as I can. Feels better. They could perhaps introduce important companions (story or lore-wise) like Lord Scourge, plus romance companions for the sole purpose of continuing our romances (or not) in a good way, something that could not happen in an Alliance Alert. Other characters that might not be as relevant can come back in an Alliance Alert, like Zenith, Tharan, Vik, etc. Exactly what I was thinking. Love interests or companions relevant to the main story (such as Lord Scourge) must be re-introduced into the story. Any other companion that really doesn't have a role could just be relegated to alliance alerts and players could pick them up if they want. I think that would be the best of both worlds considering alliance alerts are optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngFour Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I would prefer it if companion reintroduction are limited to class/faction rather than giving Outlander all companions in every classes (I have enough comps already!!). Have several characters play the same role in the story, like characters sharing the same background (force-users/military etc) and they share the same plot (like Kaidan/Ashley in Mass Effect). So they don't have to use more unique resources to fit each and every character into the story (as in Alliance alert). I wouldn't mind my Wrath meeting Lord Scourge but why should she care about Ashara, Raina, Elara, Doc, Kira, Corso, Akavi, Risha, Tharan, Mako, Nadia, Zenith, Andronikos, Felix... my god.... even Khem Val/Zash. Poor Vector, usually left off lists like this. That's okay, me and his three other fangirls will just sit quietly over here in the corner Anyway, I can get behind this. My Agent has 30+ companions (that's after the deaths and exiles). I would love for her to get Quinn because Imperial Military similarities and all that, but I can live without her getting him. I just want my characters to get their LI's back. They are the important ones. The rest is just fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGitzDmC Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Poor Vector, usually left off lists like this. That's okay, me and his three other fangirls will just sit quietly over here in the corner Anyway, I can get behind this. My Agent has 30+ companions (that's after the deaths and exiles). I would love for her to get Quinn because Imperial Military similarities and all that, but I can live without her getting him. I just want my characters to get their LI's back. They are the important ones. The rest is just fluff. Indeed lol I think I'm going to follow that "If BW doesn't do this, I'll cancel my sub" thing, but only for Vector Like, seriously, it bugs me (pun intended) that he hasn't been introduced in the new storylines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngFour Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Indeed lol I think I'm going to follow that "If BW doesn't do this, I'll cancel my sub" thing, but only for Vector Like, seriously, it bugs me (pun intended) that he hasn't been introduced in the new storylines. Seeing as they tied in the other companions in a flimsy way, I can come up with a pretty flimsy way to tie Vector in: Gemini droids operate basically by hive mind. Bam. Need insight on the hive mind. Bam. Theron: We think we might know someone who has personal-- Agent: Vector Hyllus Theron: I'm not quite sure. Dawn-- Agent: Vector Hyllus. He's on Alderaan. Near House Cortess. We can walk up to any Joiner and ask. They will literally point us in the right direction. Theron: Huh. My contact is on Alderaan. You might be on to-- Agent: Of course I am, Theron. Let's go get my husband. Lana: Husband? (Because they barely recognize anything from our history, despite Lana and Theron working closely with my Agent and her crew through SoR). BAM. I just wrote a fairly plausible way to work Vector in. Flimsy, but plausible. It's not like the other stories were rock solid (I groaned/laughed at your pun, BTW ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 Seeing as they tied in the other companions in a flimsy way, I can come up with a pretty flimsy way to tie Vector in: Gemini droids operate basically by hive mind. Bam. Need insight on the hive mind. Bam. Theron: We think we might know someone who has personal-- Agent: Vector Hyllus Theron: I'm not quite sure. Dawn-- Agent: Vector Hyllus. He's on Alderaan. Near House Cortess. We can walk up to any Joiner and ask. They will literally point us in the right direction. Theron: Huh. My contact is on Alderaan. You might be on to-- Agent: Of course I am, Theron. Let's go get my husband. Lana: Husband? (Because they barely recognize anything from our history, despite Lana and Theron working closely with my Agent and her crew through SoR). BAM. I just wrote a fairly plausible way to work Vector in. Flimsy, but plausible. It's not like the other stories were rock solid (I groaned/laughed at your pun, BTW ) It doesn't even have to be that flimsy. We could have brought Vector into KOTFE or KOTET merely because the Alliance was looking for new allies. The entirety of the killik species could have provided invaluable intelligence as well as eyes and ears throughout the galaxy. Since they communicate via hive mind, vector could be their representative and the killik could have fought beside the Outlander and the rest of the Alliance to beat back the eternal throne, which was a threat to all life. This story could still be plausible if the Republic and the Sith Empire now pose a threat to stability and peace in the galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkashepard Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) I definitely understand what you are saying (some of those companions I don't care very much about even though I've done all the class stories). That being said, BioWare already set a precedent with half of the companions returning and they seem to want to give everybody access to every class companion in the game. I'm not necessarily against it if each companion is brought back in a compelling way. Some of those companions you listed could still be brought back in alliance alerts, so I don't think it would necessarily be an issue of resources. Romance companions are resource extensive. Kaliyo, Aric, Torian and Vette have chapter dedicated for them each and yet none of them are particularly important to KOTFE/KOTET and practically serve as filler background character or choose which character to fridge so you can have a reason to hate the antagonist. Even the existing class romances don't have much additional romanced scenes. There's still 19 characters that we haven't seen yet and in addition to that, there's a SAG-AFTRA strike which could last a year or two. Edited December 9, 2016 by revkashepard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngFour Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 It doesn't even have to be that flimsy. We could have brought Vector into KOTFE or KOTET merely because the Alliance was looking for new allies. The entirety of the killik species could have provided invaluable intelligence as well as eyes and ears throughout the galaxy. Since they communicate via hive mind, vector could be their representative and the killik could have fought beside the Outlander and the rest of the Alliance to beat back the eternal throne, which was a threat to all life. This story could still be plausible if the Republic and the Sith Empire now pose a threat to stability and peace in the galaxy. That is better than mine, but I was going for flimsy to make it easier for the writers. Bottom line is we can all think of perfectly valid reasons and ways for our companions to come back in a comprehensible and meaningful way. Whether the writing team can or even will is an entirely different matter. I hope they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 Romance companions are resource extensive. Kaliyo, Aric, Torian and Vette have chapter dedicated for them each and yet none of them are particularly important to KOTFE/KOTET and practically serve as filler background character or choose which character to fridge so you can have a reason to hate the antagonist. Even the existing class romances don't have much additional romanced scenes. There's still 19 characters that we haven't seen yet and in addition to that, there's a SAG-AFTRA strike which could last a year or two. Perhaps it's just my opinion, but the love interest companions BioWare brought back were likely the least popular. I know I didn't personally romance any of those companions, besides Vette on a second playthrough. I think the monthly chapters would have likely been better received had Kira, Scourge, Quinn, DS Jaesa, or Risha returned first. I do not believe the union strike against EA and a few other publishers actually impacts BioWare since they had contracts in place with these actors years ago. Not to mention, BioWare is also considered one of the best studios in the industry when it comes to treating voice actors with respect and dignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowin Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 That is better than mine, but I was going for flimsy to make it easier for the writers. Bottom line is we can all think of perfectly valid reasons and ways for our companions to come back in a comprehensible and meaningful way. Whether the writing team can or even will is an entirely different matter. I hope they will. Well I sincerely hope they do. Some of the writers who wrote the class stories, and these companions, are still at BioWare Austin. Off the top of my head, Charles Boyd wrote the Trooper story, Hal Hood wrote the Smuggler story and co-wrote the Jedi Knight story with Drew Karpyshyn. Some of the other original writers may still be there, but just looking at the stories for these companions in the base game should be more than enough material to come up with compelling reasons to include them in future stories. BioWare rarely ever lets me down when it comes to their writing prowess. I think they are more than capable of doing an exceptional job with all of these companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngFour Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) Well I sincerely hope they do. Some of the writers who wrote the class stories, and these companions, are still at BioWare Austin. Off the top of my head, Charles Boyd wrote the Trooper story, Hal Hood wrote the Smuggler story and co-wrote the Jedi Knight story with Drew Karpyshyn. Some of the other original writers may still be there, but just looking at the stories for these companions in the base game should be more than enough material to come up with compelling reasons to include them in future stories. BioWare rarely ever lets me down when it comes to their writing prowess. I think they are more than capable of doing an exceptional job with all of these companions. Yes, yes. Trust me, I love Bioware's stories. I love SWTOR, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect. I have no real doubt that they can write a compelling story. But will they? That's the real question. All we can do is hope they will. Edited December 9, 2016 by AngFour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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