Tipps for how to deal with double sappers

[Drake_Averrod]

I main a sentinel and thus play this class most of the time and I would like to ask the pvp community how to best deal with 2 stealthers.

 

I have no issues with one. I stand far away enough from the node, so that by the time the stun wears off I can still jump to the stealther. BUT: Are there any good tactics for two stealthers when you are alone guarding a node (which happens often when I am solo queing and no one else feels inclinded to stay at the node)?

 

I am strictly speaking from a sentinel/marader point of view. I could imagine usining force camouflage right after the stun breaks off, just so I can not be double sapped and as soon I get into combat I am safe, But the timining with this can be rough.

 

Can anyone give me some tipps? Or should I just yell at the group for leaving me guard alone?

[zhezvya]

Honestly, you should not guard as a sent/mara. For me, as a player who plays stealth 99% of the time, warriors are easy prey, even if you stand away from pylon/turrett. I would just open to cap, you engage to interrupt- flashbang/force lift- you use cc breaker-stealth out-mezz-cap. Blood Ward utility helps to avoid that, though. You should charge with Saber Ward on ,to interrupt after calling inc. But I'm not sure if it is possible to break cc and activate Saber Ward fast enough when 2 stealths arrive.

 

Go for the main fight, maras/sents are more of a use there.

[Yezzan]

If you get mezzed, the first thing you do is to call it. Your primary role, as a guard, is to prevent/delay cap, until help arrives. If you find yourself doing guard duty, most of the time, then you want to align your utilities to deal with getting controlled.

 

So you might want to pick :

Jedi Enforcer

Stoic

Defensive Roll

Force Fade

Expunging Camouflage

Fleetfooted

Zealous Ward

Zealous Judgement

 

As for how to guard against it; that is hard to say, you could force camo or use twin saber through to interrupt the capper, pop saber ward, and then use saber throw; but all this depends on reflexes and latency. If they are good, they will cap and you can;t do anything about it.

[MackPol]

Only way I have found is Camo and/or Saber Ward stun immunity which I take. It is still a game of chance and reflex :/

As said you should leap with Saber Ward up. You can also try Mad Dash to resist but thats even more uncertain

Do not interrupt with Saber Throw cos it has travel time and might not interrupt in time.

 

Two decent stealthers will cap on you. Stealth should defend or Sorc.

On the bright side most steatlth geniuses will open on you so you can get some solo kills xd

[Wimbleton]

It's a good question and the real answer is that as soon as you recognize this is the case, you need to make it very clear that you need help.

 

I always want to see how good my opponent stealthers are, to see if they will white bar me without clicking etc. The best ones, tandem CCing you, the math just does not add up in your favor. They WILL eventually get the pylon.

 

As a sorc I can break an additional sap/flashbang/stun but all they have to do is go and get out of combat while my whitebar is refreshing and come back well before I have my PVP cleanse and bubble back up and I'm done.

 

What I try to do is what I mentioned first, and make sure people know when I need help and then refuse to guard if I have no PVP cleanse and/or bubble.

 

Even a single good OP can eventually work you through all your CDs and get the click. Only thing you can do is make sure that you are far enough away that they cannot sap/cc then immediately click. Making them roll to the click will give you a split second in most cases to insta damage them after the CC wears off.

[Ryuku-sama]

IAs a sorc I can break an additional sap/flashbang/stun but all they have to do is go and get out of combat while my whitebar is refreshing and come back well before I have my PVP cleanse and bubble back up and I'm done.

 

As a Sorc.. Get bubble stun, have bubble on you, stand on the node and pop your bubble by right clicking the buff... Then you're in combat with all your stun breaks up.

 

Sorc, Sin and Op have no reason to refuse to guard.. They are nigh impossible to solo sap cap and still hard to sap cap with two stealthers.

 

Everything else is easy sap cap for two stealthers.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Ryuku-sama

[Greezt]

As a Sorc.. Get bubble stun, have bubble on you, stand on the node and pop your bubble by right clicking the buff... Then you're in combat with all your stun breaks up.

 

Sorc, Sin and Op have no reason to refuse to guard.. They are nigh impossible to solo sap cap and still hard to sap cap with two stealthers.

 

Everything else is easy sap cap for two stealthers.

 

Juggs can have two breakers, PTs have shoulder cannon. I don't know how the stealth changes affected snipers yet, so can't comment on them. The only classes that really shouldn't be guarding are maras/mercs, though.

[Nadforce]

Juggs can have two breakers, PTs have shoulder cannon. I don't know how the stealth changes affected snipers yet, so can't comment on them. The only classes that really shouldn't be guarding are maras/mercs, though.

Merc. Forced to guard on voidstad - by 7 from a pve guild who wanted to fight up near the first container, i.e. about 2-3x ranged out of range of the door.

Naturally the other side, not being idiots, tried sneaking. Solo operative at first, creamed that guy.

Then he came back with CC backup that knew what they were doing. Forced to use cc break, but did not have enough resolve to take the next cc that came right after i used it.

Guess who got blamed instead of their blindingly bad 'lets pretend that noone can get by us and a lone merc can stop all who do anyway, they are so op now' tactic.

 

Even if we entertain the 'mercs are op' argument, then yes, in imaginationland, if it was not for CC, then I really can delay whoever for a long time (if cooldowns are ready) and get backup. But that only works once or twice, depending on whether I have to blow all my defenses or not.

And in any case it is defeated by CC and having team so far away they can't even get there before the charge is placed when you include time for communication and for any of them to begin reacting to it. Specially when you are not on their guild voicechat.

On voidstar that is just not good enough.

 

Anyway, I guess I am advocating differentiated resolve rules on warzones. And much shorter cooldown on cc breakers.

On voidstar you practically need more resolve (sooner and longer, like 1 cc=full resolve to prevent multi cc). It is not that I like the 2x full defense slugfests, it gets boring and tedius, but cc is just way too good there, specially in randoms.

On other warzones it is not as bad, mostly because it is not a almost certain loss if a single node gets captured.

[Banderal]

Guess who got blamed instead of their blindingly bad 'lets pretend that noone can get by us and a lone merc can stop all who do anyway, they are so op now' tactic.

 

I compare the solo-guard to the field goal kicker in USA football. The whole rest of the team had the entire game to stop the other side, and score themselves. And now you are down to the last seconds and the team is down by a point or two. And if you miss the field goal, somehow it's YOUR fault the team lost. Like the entire rest of the game didn't matter. That's the solo guard. You make one mistake, or even not a mistake, you just lose the node to one or two good players and your team doesn't show up to help - and suddenly it's somehow your fault the entire game is lost.

 

Back a bit more on topic though... I solo guard an mara a lot, but I'm fury. I don't volunteer for it, but it seems preferable vs. having no one there. On fury it's a bit easier, as long as you can get the CC immunity up with force-crush. It buys you a few seconds, and if you are lucky they will waste their flashbang/whirlwind on you while it's active. Although I've had the force-crush immunity bug out because of lag I guess. I've had cases where I activate it, and it's on cooldown so it got activated, yet I'm also hit and mezzed by a flashbang that just went off "at the same time".

 

Or you always have the old stand-by of just waiting for their DPS team mate to show up and attack you while they are still capping, thus breaking the cc for you. Not that I was in a dual stealther cap team which totally had the node until some lighting sorc showed up and freed the defender from the Cc... or anything like that.

[Ryuku-sama]

Juggs can have two breakers, PTs have shoulder cannon. I don't know how the stealth changes affected snipers yet, so can't comment on them. The only classes that really shouldn't be guarding are maras/mercs, though.

 

Juggernaut: You cannot activate Endure Pain (the utility was changed in 5.0) while stunned. Moot point.

PT: Yes, but why would a stealther attempt a sap cap? PT's got mobility and control but they are currently the weakest class as far as survivability goes. Just open up and burst them down.

Sniper: Why the **** would you guard with one? Entrench can be waited out.

[Liquor]

Pt is fine as a guard. Shoulder cannon will stop a cap.

 

But the biggest thing to do is pre-fill the call out. It's a quick double tap of the enter key to get the incoming call out quickly.

 

I have all my call outs in notepad and I display it in my streams because people thought I had it macroed

Before the match starts you can see me copy and paste the calls into 2 chat boxes. Well one is hidden behind an image but usually my off node call out is there and the main nice is in the top left chat box.

 

Most often you will see my call out in civil war as we head to mid. When I see a couple break off to snow, I double tap enter to get my " -=. SNOW. =-. " Incoming call out. This lets the guard on snow to expect incoming and someone from mid to break off to snow for an assist. It is very effective when players pay attention and react accordingly.

 

At times I will focus target on a node guard and keep an eye on his HP and buffs. If he is engaged I will make the call for him. So many new players don't get those calls out quick enough.

 

It's quick and easy. Too bad more players don't do this. At least pre-fill the chat box for the node you're guarding. When sapped double tap enter and get help asap

[Banderal]

Sniper: Why the **** would you guard with one? Entrench can be waited out.

 

That's relevant to guarding the keep-2-turrets-out-of-3 maps, and voidstar. On AHG, since most good sap-cappers will wait until 30 seconds left, you sort of know when to pop entrench. At least, that's been my experience when I play my engineering sniper. And, also, of course, an engineering sniper can just keep the flame-probe-thing (forget what it's called now) on the node pretty much 100% of the time.

[Greezt]

Juggernaut: You cannot activate Endure Pain (the utility was changed in 5.0) while stunned. Moot point.

PT: Yes, but why would a stealther attempt a sap cap? PT's got mobility and control but they are currently the weakest class as far as survivability goes. Just open up and burst them down.

Sniper: Why the **** would you guard with one? Entrench can be waited out.

 

You're right about Juggs,I forgot about the utility change. Snipers are good guards, they break and then entrench. As Banderal mentioned, Engineering can deny a node 100% of the time with their AoE. In any case, I was thinking about their stealth detection - I don't know how the new stealth levels affect it, but if snipers can still detect stealthers they're viable guards.

[Banderal]

You're right about Juggs,I forgot about the utility change. Snipers are good guards, they break and then entrench. As Banderal mentioned, Engineering can deny a node 100% of the time with their AoE. In any case, I was thinking about their stealth detection - I don't know how the new stealth levels affect it, but if snipers can still detect stealthers they're viable guards.

 

I don't know about snipers and stealth detection, but I have noticed a very distinct lack of being able to detect stealth with my mara the way I used to. It was not uncommon in the past to see a stealther a few meters away and be able to quickly target and attack before they got "out of range" again... but that has not happened once that I can remember since 5.0 hit. Stealthers basically got an "always on black-out-super-stealth", right? Which kind of sucks. My main for a long long time was a shadow tank, so I like stealth, but that still sucks.