So....about Vaylin....

[SerraShar]

Yeah, we have 1 option if you want a f/f romance for literally every character we take through the story. I think I've romanced Lana 30 times. Hopefully they'll add another one that's not just flirting that goes nowhere like Acina. Each class has at least 1 heterosexual option they can have in addition to the new ones added in KotFE.

 

some have 2 lol but yeah..I'm so with you there . Maybe when the missing companions come back..they grow a soul and think of us..for once .

 

30 times !!! Omg..I have been Slacking!!!! gotta catch up!

[Paulsutherland]

Romance for gray ? LOL

 

Uh..honestly though , like I said..I personally would've been happy to redeem her even if she die in the end . At least you know you saved her from the clutch of Valk for good . That would've made the final battle even more intense........

 

The gray option ... the option that we all think is neutral is the option that will screw you over. I learnt this from Mass Effect while I was tryng to calm Wrex down. picked the gray option that said it wouldn't result in his death and three seconds later Ashley shoots him.

 

So here ... it would be something like you stab Vaylin as we do now, then the platform we're on breaks and Arcaan falls to his death or a random tree comes out of nowhere and crushes Lana.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Paulsutherland

[SerraShar]

The gray option ... the option that we all think is neutral is the option that will screw you over. I learnt this from Mass Effect while I was tryng to calm Wrex down. picked the gray option that said it wouldn't result in his death and three seconds later Ashley shoots him.

 

So here ... it would be something like you stab Vaylin as we do now, then the platform we're on breaks and Arcaan falls to his death or a random tree comes out of nowhere and crushes Lana.

 

Truth be told..I dont even know how peoples end up with gray alignement lol I'm always either full dark or full LS .

 

There is no gray option in this game...at least I dont think so .

 

But yeah , redeem + companion or kill could be the choices . Or the opposite redeem + death or Ds choice is keep as companion but no redemption . Because if I recall proprely , in that final battle on my DS Sorc once I used the holocorn on her and arcann (who was dead) , Arcann joined me but Vaylin wouldn't . She would say something like ''you are so eager to forgive the outlander when she killed you!'' . So then , I had a dialogue choice and I said something about joining me and she got mad saying I stole the kill that she wanted . Which was killing Senya .

 

That is where I end up using the bottom reply where you tell her Senya suffered ALOT when you killed her and that seemed to please her alot cose she was all ''I like you now '' and joined me .

 

Based on that reaction , we could have 2 kind of redemptions here . One LS and one Dark Side , I guess .

[Paulsutherland]

Truth be told..I dont even know how peoples end up with gray alignement lol I'm always either full dark or full LS .

 

There is no gray option in this game...at least I dont think so .

 

But yeah , redeem + companion or kill could be the choices . Or the opposite redeem + death or Ds choice is keep as companion but no redemption . Because if I recall proprely , in that final battle on my DS Sorc once I used the holocorn on her and arcann (who was dead) , Arcann joined me but Vaylin wouldn't . She would say something like ''you are so eager to forgive the outlander when she killed you!'' . So then , I had a dialogue choice and I said something about joining me and she got mad saying I stole the kill that she wanted . Which was killing Senya .

 

That is where I end up using the bottom reply where you tell her Senya suffered ALOT when you killed her and that seemed to please her alot cose she was all ''I like you now '' and joined me .

 

Based on that reaction , we could have 2 kind of redemptions here . One LS and one Dark Side , I guess .

 

I wanted the 'Darth Occlus' title on my inquisitor so I had to stay neutral ... it's wasn't that bad, though I did bounce into the Light I / Dark I a few times. One minute I was kind to people the next then I tured into a right ****. If it went to far I'd even it out with the 'Black Talon' mission.

 

I blame Senya and Arcaan for Vette's or Torian's death! After saving them I was prepared to go full DS on them.

[RagingSkull]

I agree with the OP, and several others in this thread. I think KOTET would have been a lot better if they had given us more choices in this expansion. Joining Vaylin being one of them.

 

I'll admit I'm uncertain on whether Vaylin was killed or not. However, I do believe Vaylin would have been beyond any form of help from a light sided player. However, a dark sided player in chapter 9 has a 'positive' effect on her when revealing the fate of her mother. I do wish they could have given us the option to side with her during that final battle in Chapter 8. It would have felt like that moment in 'KOTOR' when you must choose between becoming Darth Revan or staying on the light side.

 

Regardless I do like what they did with Vaylin's backstory, and how she interacts with various NPCs throughout the arc. Especially that droid she drags from Lokath to Zakuul. Natasha Loring does an excellent job as her voice actress.

 

Perhaps if they decide to go and expand/fix/improve 'KOTET,' they would consider what we've been saying.

[Paulsutherland]

It would have felt like that moment in 'KOTOR' when you must choose between becoming Darth Revan or staying on the light side.

 

I love that part of the game. Well I love Kotor in general, those Sith/Rakata ships were so cool. heh wish the dark side ending to that game was 'canon.' Dark side femRevan would have taken none of the Emperors ****.

 

Regardless I do like what they did with Vaylin's backstory, and how she interacts with various NPCs throughout the arc. Especially that droid she drags from Lokath to Zakuul. Natasha Loring does an excellent job as her voice actress.

 

I was expecting her to turn green when throwing that droid around on Lokath.

[Stultophobe]

Is she just running around inside your head now?! We didn't eradicate her spirit like we did to Valkorian! I don't know about you guys, but I gave her the choice to side with me, she approved and she (along with Arcann and Senya, beautiful family moment fyi) helped me wipe the floor with Valkorian. So, she's just there now? Is that what future chapters could be about? I wanted to help the lady, especially after seeing the 'Betrayal' trailer, so maybe that opportunity will arise, but I feel a lot of the player base may not like that. Thoughts?

 

I believe that Vaylin is gone. When you kill Vaylin on Odessen and see the Force effect go into your character, that's Valkorion binding her spirit to his own. That's why Vaylin only appeared in your mind after Valkorion deliberately manifested her. Therefore, destroying Valkorion would also destroy Vaylin.

 

It was subtle, and maybe you didn't notice, but Vaylin was a bit off-character in the final chapter. She was more an echo of the person we'd come to know. The "real" Vaylin would not have chosen sides. She would have lashed out at both Valkorion and the Outlander.

 

I could be mistaken, of course.

 

I also don't agree that Valyin was/is redeemable. I think the writers went out of their way to show us this, while still not making her an entirely unsympathetic character. So much had been taken from her that it would almost feel disingenuous were she to "reform". Unlike Arcann, Valkorion had turned Vaylin into an animal. Animals are not redeemable -- they simply are what they are.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Stultophobe

[Xilizhra]

I also don't agree that Valyin was/is redeemable. I think the writers went out of their way to show us this, while still not making her an entirely unsympathetic character. So much had been taken from her that it would almost feel disingenuous were she to "reform". Unlike Arcann, Valkorion had turned Vaylin into an animal. Animals are not redeemable -- they simply are what they are.

They're also not sapient, which is rather the point. Vaylin still is.

[RagingSkull]

Well..

Are there any suggestions that you would add to KotET?

 

Guss as a love interest?

 

Lol back to Vaylin: Give us the option to join her in a battle against Senya and Arcann? Assuming you have them or you wouldn't be able to 'help her.

 

Then have her make an appearance at the end of KOTET walking into the throne room scaring the crap out of Lana and Theron. Maybe even force choking them and throwing them aside.

[Canareth]

I believe that Vaylin is gone. When you kill Vaylin on Odessen and see the Force effect go into your character, that's Valkorion binding her spirit to his own. That's why Vaylin only appeared in your mind after Valkorion deliberately manifested her. Therefore, destroying Valkorion would also destroy Vaylin.

 

It was subtle, and maybe you didn't notice, but Vaylin was a bit off-character in the final chapter. She was more an echo of the person we'd come to know. The "real" Vaylin would not have chosen sides. She would have lashed out at both Valkorion and the Outlander.

 

I could be mistaken, of course.

 

I also don't agree that Valyin was/is redeemable. I think the writers went out of their way to show us this, while still not making her an entirely unsympathetic character. So much had been taken from her that it would almost feel disingenuous were she to "reform". Unlike Arcann, Valkorion had turned Vaylin into an animal. Animals are not redeemable -- they simply are what they are.

 

It's subtle but once Vaylin knows Valk is in the Outlander's head, she starts off every confrontation demanding him. When she decides Valk must be on Voss, that's also when she escalates from just burning the planet to blowing a lot of it away.

 

Vaylin wants revenge and the Outlander finally gives her that with the Holocron. It's about the only time she seems legitimately happy with the Outlander.. Her deciding to deal with Valkorion first makes sense.

 

And I do think that was Vaylin herself because she DOES try to wallop Valk first, he just stops her, while he can't stop the Outlander from doing anything in their own mind.

 

Which would also be the only way to rehabilitate.Vaylin if her spirit survived. Valk ripped everything positive out of her.

[Paulsutherland]

It's subtle but once Vaylin knows Valk is in the Outlander's head, she starts off every confrontation demanding him. When she decides Valk must be on Voss, that's also when she escalates from just burning the planet to blowing a lot of it away.

 

Vaylin wants revenge and the Outlander finally gives her that with the Holocron. It's about the only time she seems legitimately happy with the Outlander.. Her deciding to deal with Valkorion first makes sense.

 

And I do think that was Vaylin herself because she DOES try to wallop Valk first, he just stops her, while he can't stop the Outlander from doing anything in their own mind.

 

Which would also be the only way to rehabilitate.Vaylin if her spirit survived. Valk ripped everything positive out of her.

 

Do you think her spirit/mind/essence has been locked in the holocron?

[RagingSkull]

Redemption for the Light

Companion for the Dark

 

?

 

As the others have said, she was just too crazy nor did she want any form of redemption. She rejects it a few times when talking to either Senya, Arcann or the Outlander.

 

Though as I said in my previous post. I do believe she would have listened to a dark sided player if said player were to turn on Senya/Arcann enabling her to do what she's wanted to do for most of KOTFE/KOTET. Afterward, I could see both Vaylin and the Outlander being attacked by Valkorian, resulting in Vaylin being injured, demoralizing her forces and losing her connection to the Eternal Thone thus sending the fleet into genocide mode.

 

For chapter nine she could turn up at the end and stand as your 'right hand.' Maybe even throw in some knights in the background kneeling before you.

 

Regardless of whether or not anything happens. I think all of the characters except Lana and Theron will quietly become secondary characters to whatever awaits us in the future.

 

I Agree with the author of a post. To leave her in live was the excellent decision. Two options killing her, and one, at least one that she lived. Ideally became the companion. It is clear, that it the main protagonist in this chapter and what she is considered the madwoman, dangerous, but what it differs from Jessa Williams in? No differs. My character couldn't cope with it? Seriously? She is just a girl, with strong sensitivity to force, and teenage ambitions, but she falls short even what was done by Dread Masters, without speaking about that what the inquisitor in story line faces. To kill from the fact that she mad on a will of the father... I don't know how at you, but our mentally ill people are treated, but don't kill what dangerous they would be. The light side received light Arcann, the dark side got only a throne. For all 25 chapters people fell in love with this character. Let such, but it has it charisma (many thx Natasha Lorigton for this). It needs to be returned until her spirit is caught in the character. If it isn't pleasant to someone it, let kill, but it is a lot of people there is, a lot of, which would like that Vaylin lived. She trusts nobody, is afraid of treachery, and it is key to success to gain her trust. She will become the powerful apretice for any Force user.

#WeWantVaylin

 

I forgot about the Dread Masters. They were loyal to the Sith Emperor, if one of those could be redeemed then maybe there is hope for Vaylin.

Heh if Vaylin did join us, she can have the title of Emperor's/Empress' Wrath.

 

#WeWantVaylin

[Paulsutherland]

Don't forget about the Sith chick on Taris (Imp Taris Story) she was pretty wacky and insane too. She would have made a cool Imp companion.

 

I think all of the characters except Lana and Theron will quietly become secondary characters to whatever awaits us in the future.

 

More than likely. Most of the main characters can be killed off, in fact I think the only one who can't is Gault.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Paulsutherland

[AshlaBoga]

Killing mentally ill people is a rather DS thing to do.

 

Not sure if BW understands implications.

[Eshvara]

Killing mentally ill people is a rather DS thing to do.

 

Not sure if BW understands implications.

 

It depends on the situation, she's a danger to the galaxy in the state she was in. When someone is insane and starts shooting bullets around in circles, cops or whatever aren't going to think twice about putting said person down either.

[AshlaBoga]

It depends on the situation, she's a danger to the galaxy in the state she was in. When someone is insane and starts shooting bullets around in circles, cops or whatever aren't going to think twice about putting said person down either.

 

She has severe childhood trauma and acute PTSD.

 

She's been subjected to tortures that don't even exist in the real world, psychic-psychological abuse by her 1481 year old galactic enemy #1 abomination of a father.

 

In all of SWTOR, I think her backstory is the harshest.

Danger or not, throughout the game we get the chance to spare enemies (Sith, Dread Master Cal, Rakata, Revanites...) This was a missed opportunity.

[Eshvara]

She has severe childhood trauma and acute PTSD.

 

She's been subjected to tortures that don't even exist in the real world, psychic-psychological abuse by her 1481 year old galactic enemy #1 abomination of a father.

 

In all of SWTOR, I think her backstory is the harshest.

Danger or not, throughout the game we get the chance to spare enemies (Sith, Dread Master Cal, Rakata, Revanites...) This was a missed opportunity.

 

Nobody is denying that she didn't have it beyond bad, that doesn't make it okay for her to keep terrorising planets, people, staff, you.

Disregarding her lines that got cut out, they didn't make it seem she was anything more than insane. You can't reason with people who barely have a sensible mind.

 

The way she became crazy or whatever you want to call it doesn't change the fact that she's dangerous.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Eshvara

[SithKoriandr]

She has severe childhood trauma and acute PTSD.

 

She's been subjected to tortures that don't even exist in the real world, psychic-psychological abuse by her 1481 year old galactic enemy #1 abomination of a father.

 

In all of SWTOR, I think her backstory is the harshest.

Danger or not, throughout the game we get the chance to spare enemies (Sith, Dread Master Cal, Rakata, Revanites...) This was a missed opportunity.

 

We did have the opportunity to spare her. Why do people keep forgetting this? Do they think just because she keeps turning you down, that means we didn't have the opportunity?

 

My Consular tried many times for her to stand down and work with them. She laughs it off and attacks you. Her own mother pleads with her and she turns her down. Her brother does the same (if you spare him) she turns away.

 

Vaylin has some valid reasons for the way she is. This being Star Wars, redemption for those deeds can be found (real world would laugh some one like that off as ever being redeemable). She didn't want it. She even knew what she was doing was wrong and she didn't care.

 

However, PCs got multiple chat options to try to get her to stand down. It just wasn't going to get to the point where she finally says "Okay, you're right. I surrender to your mercy."

[josephinec]

We did have the opportunity to spare her. Why do people keep forgetting this? Do they think just because she keeps turning you down, that means we didn't have the opportunity?

 

My Consular tried many times for her to stand down and work with them. She laughs it off and attacks you. Her own mother pleads with her and she turns her down. Her brother does the same (if you spare him) she turns away.

 

Vaylin has some valid reasons for the way she is. This being Star Wars, redemption for those deeds can be found (real world would laugh some one like that off as ever being redeemable). She didn't want it. She even knew what she was doing was wrong and she didn't care.

 

However, PCs got multiple chat options to try to get her to stand down. It just wasn't going to get to the point where she finally says "Okay, you're right. I surrender to your mercy."

 

We ask her to surrender in battle, not to come with us and get healing. Those are two totally different things. Unless I missed a dialogue option, we never said, "you can get the help you need".

 

We can spare a Dread Master who served her dad (out of his own free will as far we know) for centuries and more likely than not did stuff that made her and Arcann look like playground bullies, and Revan escapes punishment because he's sort of dead. Just saying.

[TrueBritannia]

The crucial point about Vaylin was that her mind had all but collapsed, her power destroying her. Unlike Arcann who shows glimmers of hope before his redemption, Vaylin shows none whatsoever; in fact, she only grows more unstable and psychopathic with time.

 

Vaylin and Valkorion are actually very similar, which explains why Valk fears her. In a sense Valkorion is right; caging Vaylin (or killing her) were the only choices. Her power was simply too great; she'd never be able to use it judiciously. As Valkorion himself demonstrates, such power leads to very dark places. As a child Vaylin was quickly walking the same path Tenebrae did, and that was with Senya's concerted efforts to help her. Ironically her complete insanity was what probably stopped her from being a full-on Valkorion mark 2, devouring worlds etc.

 

She was a tragedy from the start, and the inability to save her is only proper I think. It hammers it home all the more how horrific her life was and what a depraved thing Valkorion is.

[Paulsutherland]

Nobody is denying that she didn't have it beyond bad, that doesn't make it okay for her to keep terrorising planets, people, staff, you.

Disregarding her lines that got cut out, they didn't make it seem she was anything more than insane. You can't reason with people who barely have a sensible mind.

 

The way she became crazy or whatever you want to call it doesn't change the fact that she's dangerous.

 

Between her and Arcann I think Arcann did more damage to innocent planets/lives with that whole bomb five planets stunt and the incident with the knights.

 

You can reason with her in Chapter 9. When the PC and Valkorian are trying to persuade her to their side. She says something along the lines of 'The Outlander is right!' I'm not sure if the LS has a similiar choice or not but I know you can get Arcann to persuade her.

 

On the note of being dangerous. We've already got a fair share of companions who could be dangerous for the Alliance. (Xalek, Broonmark, C2-N2)

[Eshvara]

Between her and Arcann I think Arcann did more damage to innocent planets/lives with that whole bomb five planets stunt and the incident with the knights.

 

You can reason with her in Chapter 9. When the PC and Valkorian are trying to persuade her to their side. She says something along the lines of 'The Outlander is right!' I'm not sure if the LS has a similiar choice or not but I know you can get Arcann to persuade her.

 

On the note of being dangerous. We've already got a fair share of companions who could be dangerous for the Alliance. (Xalek, Broonmark, C2-N2)

 

In the dark side story you can reason with Arcann but not with Vaylin. While they both hated you, he comes to his senses, she doesn't, she rather kills you over her dad... I mean how far gone can you be to think the outlander is worse than Valk!

 

Vaylin and Arcann were both bad in terms of what they did to people, while he commanded to blow up 5 planets, she chose which and loved doing it.

I think in that they are equally bad. Arcann did have the knights fight each other to the death, which was just beyond stupid.

[Paulsutherland]

In the dark side story you can reason with Arcann but not with Vaylin. While they both hated you, he comes to his senses, she doesn't, she rather kills you over her dad... I mean how far gone can you be to think the outlander is worse than Valk!

 

Vaylin and Arcann were both bad in terms of what they did to people, while he commanded to blow up 5 planets, she chose which and loved doing it.

I think in that they are equally bad. Arcann did have the knights fight each other to the death, which was just beyond stupid.

 

Hmmm?? She does in two of three of the DS choices. I have no idea about the lie option.

 

Option 1: You tell her Valk will cage her again. Valkorian tells her to ignore you and she decides to side with us.

 

Option 2: [Lie] Something about Senya - I haven't done this one so I don't know how it plays out.

 

Option 3: You tell her Senya screamed endlessly and she says we're fun. ( XD )

[josephinec]

The crucial point about Vaylin was that her mind had all but collapsed, her power destroying her. Unlike Arcann who shows glimmers of hope before his redemption, Vaylin shows none whatsoever; in fact, she only grows more unstable and psychopathic with time.

 

Vaylin and Valkorion are actually very similar, which explains why Valk fears her. In a sense Valkorion is right; caging Vaylin (or killing her) were the only choices. Her power was simply too great; she'd never be able to use it judiciously. As Valkorion himself demonstrates, such power leads to very dark places. As a child Vaylin was quickly walking the same path Tenebrae did, and that was with Senya's concerted efforts to help her. Ironically her complete insanity was what probably stopped her from being a full-on Valkorion mark 2, devouring worlds etc.

 

She was a tragedy from the start, and the inability to save her is only proper I think. It hammers it home all the more how horrific her life was and what a depraved thing Valkorion is.

 

You assume that the hell that she went through on Nathema was the only way she could ever control her immense power. Yet the Wrath, the Inquisitor, the Barsen'thor and the Hero of Tython are supposed to be the most powerful members of their respective orders and they got training.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20, but that logic suggests that Vitkorion should have taken her as an apprentice like Exal Kressh. Think about it: if he was going the Social Darwinist route, him elevating Vaylin above her brothers would have still potentially created animosity. Hell, with Arcann's envy issues, it definitely would have. But this is the most evil person in the galaxy we're talking about, so.

[SithKoriandr]

We ask her to surrender in battle, not to come with us and get healing. Those are two totally different things. Unless I missed a dialogue option, we never said, "you can get the help you need".

 

We can spare a Dread Master who served her dad (out of his own free will as far we know) for centuries and more likely than not did stuff that made her and Arcann look like playground bullies, and Revan escapes punishment because he's sort of dead. Just saying.

 

We ask her to stop and join us for sure. Asking for her to stop and get healing specifically, I don't recall (might have had that option) but it doesn't matter how we ask it, just that we did.

 

She didn't want anything to do with it. She knew what she was doing and she didn't want to stop. Yes, it's because of what happened to her and what happened to her sucked.