Help me please, Could a BH beat a force user in a fight?

[Death-Hammer]

I've always had trouble playing non-force users. I've always thought they would have no chance of beating a sith or Jedi in a fight. I recently watched Star Wars episodes 1-3 again when they happen to come on tv. Of course, during one of the movies Fett and Obi-one fight it out and the BH not only held his own but it could be argued that he won the fight. I was just wondering if I could get some of your thoughts about the reality of a bounty hunter, for instance, fighting the emperor. Could the Bounty Hunter win? Do non-force user really have any chance against a force user in a fight? Please also share your reasoning and thinking as to why. Thank you

[SerraShar]

I never watched the movies , so be warned..I have ZERO knowledge about Obi and Yoda and watever . And I really don't care for the movies .

 

With that out of the way , I do recommand that you play the game Kotor 2 . Where it was highly suggested that Jedi were being hunted down and killed by no force users who learned how to take on jedi and succefuly kill them .

 

I personally loved that game so much it's my favorite . And yes I believe that a BH can take on a sith or a Jedi . After all , in this game..each class is the ELITE of the ELITE . So if a sith warrior is supposed to stand out on Korriban enough that he is picked to become an apprentice , so do the others class . Be them force sensitive Jedi or Sith..or no force sensitive .

 

Some peoples Love to argue , trying to put Sith and Jedi above those who are not force sensitive . And I call ******** !

 

Everyone has a weakness no matter what he is using..the force..or a simple weapon .

 

As for taking on the Emprore....that is another cookie . The Jedi Knight took on the emprore and that whole fight felt like a fraude . As if the Emprore was messing around .

 

I doubt anyway can take on the empore..I mean play Kotfe and you'll see why .

 

Doesn't mean we can't get some Jar with Mojo and lock him in there though

[Death-Hammer]

I never watched the movies , so be warned..I have ZERO knowledge about Obi and Yoda and watever . And I really don't care for the movies .

 

With that out of the way , I do recommand that you play the game Kotor 2 . Where it was highly suggested that Jedi were being hunted down and killed by no force users who learned how to take on jedi and succefuly kill them .

 

I personally loved that game so much it's my favorite . And yes I believe that a BH can take on a sith or a Jedi . After all , in this game..each class is the ELITE of the ELITE . So if a sith warrior is supposed to stand out on Korriban enough that he is picked to become an apprentice , so do the others class . Be them force sensitive Jedi or Sith..or no force sensitive .

 

Some peoples Love to argue , trying to put Sith and Jedi above those who are not force sensitive . And I call ******** !

 

Everyone has a weakness no matter what he is using..the force..or a simple weapon .

 

As for taking on the Emprore....that is another cookie . The Jedi Knight took on the emprore and that whole fight felt like a fraude . As if the Emprore was messing around .

 

I doubt anyway can take on the empore..I mean play Kotfe and you'll see why .

 

Doesn't mean we can't get some Jar with Mojo and lock him in there though

 

thanks for your input. I'm just starting to wonder if maybe I should give BH a real chance. thanks again

[JLazarillo]

Just based on the movies, the only time I recall that you see a Force-user just completely shut down a competent non-Force-user is in ESB when shields himself from Han's blaster fire, and given Vader basically ambushed the rebels in that scene, I'm willing to call that as much about surprise as anything else.

 

What I haven't seen much outside this game is the EU, which I don't think should really be considered any more or less reliable because you have 100 different authors all claiming 100 different things. In this game, a Bounty Hunter taking down a Jedi or Sith is, at the very least, internally consistent in numerous situations. Consider that in the Knight storyline, one of the hardest bosses, probably the hardest boss, in fact, given that you're not even supposed to be able to beat him is a perfectly "normal" elite soldier.

[Scinald]

50 Megaton thermonuclear detonation >>>> the force.

 

BH wins.

[Frenesi]

50 Megaton thermonuclear detonation >>>> the force.

 

BH wins.

This.

 

Over the course of the story you defeat battlemaster of jedi order.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I've always had trouble playing non-force users. I've always thought they would have no chance of beating a sith or Jedi in a fight. I recently watched Star Wars episodes 1-3 again when they happen to come on tv. Of course, during one of the movies Fett and Obi-one fight it out and the BH not only held his own but it could be argued that he won the fight. I was just wondering if I could get some of your thoughts about the reality of a bounty hunter, for instance, fighting the emperor. Could the Bounty Hunter win? Do non-force user really have any chance against a force user in a fight? Please also share your reasoning and thinking as to why. Thank you

 

During the clone wars mandalorians fought jedi regularly and could beat them.

 

Jango Fett [boba Fett's father] was famous for fighting Jedi. A noted occurance - "It was then that Fett would carry out the act that would make him both famous and infamous for the rest of his life and career: using no weapon beyond his own hands, feet, and armored body, Fett vengefully killed six Jedi".

 

That said, regarding the Emperor. There is virtually no chance that a Bounty Hunter could beat the Emperor. The Emperor was noted to be the most powerful force user of his time, and it was also stated [whether it is true or not is open for debate] that he was the single most powerful force user in 'recorded history'. Considering all the fights he was ever in and the caliber of many of those who dared to take him on in open combat unsuccessfully, baring sheer dumb luck, I see no chance of a Bounty Hunter ever beating the emperor in one on one combat on open ground. He was simply too powerful for anything mundane to over come his utter mastery of the darkside of the force, to say nothing of his skill with a lightsaber. Some may say that Mace Windu beat him in a fight. I do not think that is what happened. Many people believe his "losing" to Mace Windu was nothing more than intentional as a means to make Anakin Skywalker turn to the darkside. I share this opinion.

[Deaconik]

Atton Rand - Jedi hunter(KOTOR 2)

He mentioned many ways how to defeat Jedi.

 

Also, this glorious quote from HK-47:

Answer: Select grenades, sonic screamers, cluster rockets, and plasma charges. Mines are also effective, as many Jedi will run to meet you in hand to hand combat. Silly Jedi.

 

My guess is that this is the standard equipment of a BH

 

+ there are lightsaber resistant materials

+ flamethrower cannot be reflected by saber, only by force technique(which isn't that easy if we are talking about the lore as only the strongest could do that)

+ sonic/chemical projectiles(hard to deflect from the lore point of view)

+ distractions(holo, sound, whatever) lowers force reactions in combat

 

From the lore view you need a really strong connection to the force + strong will + some luck. Basically BH > Jedi

[dr_mike]

50 Megaton thermonuclear detonation >>>> the force.

 

BH wins.

 

So that's how

.

[TalonVII]

Just because someone has the force it does not make them omnipotent. Anyone can be beaten. A non force user who sets the battlefield and just hits a force user with so many threats they can't stop them all.

 

Also shock grenades, sonic weapons, gas attacks, etc can overwhelm a sith/jedi.

 

Saying that force = win because the force always wins is completely full of crap. Cause at the end of the day, that force user is still MORTAL. Why in fantasy settings wizards and sorcerers can be beaten.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Just because someone has the force it does not make them omnipotent. Anyone can be beaten. A non force user who sets the battlefield and just hits a force user with so many threats they can't stop them all.

 

Also shock grenades, sonic weapons, gas attacks, etc can overwhelm a sith/jedi.

 

Saying that force = win because the force always wins is completely full of crap. Cause at the end of the day, that force user is still MORTAL. Why in fantasy settings wizards and sorcerers can be beaten.

 

While I agree that a BH could beat a jedi or a sith potentially [there are examples of it from canon sources], I think the odds greatly favor the jedi or sith, all things being equal. While it can be done, the example of a BH beating the Emperor, I would say that that is virtually no chance of that happening, baring sheer dumb luck or some outside influence. Straight up, on equal footing, Emperor is going to thrash that BH would fair amount of ease. He's just too powerful.

[TalonVII]

While I agree that a BH could beat a jedi or a sith potentially [there are examples of it from canon sources], I think the odds greatly favor the jedi or sith, all things being equal. While it can be done, the example of a BH beating the Emperor, I would say that that is virtually no chance of that happening, baring sheer dumb luck or some outside influence. Straight up, on equal footing, Emperor is going to thrash that BH would fair amount of ease. He's just too powerful.

 

Again, a prepared battlefield, the BH could win out, but it would be a long shot at best. But the BH say taking on the JK or JC, yeah there's a better shot of winning that fight.

[cool-dude]

I'm going to be that guy.

 

Plot armor can make anything possible, and the gun wielding classes have it on thick. Watch the " Hope Of Alderaan" trailer, because that is how a fight between a trooper/Bh and a Sith/Jedi would go. They do alright at the start, fighting droids and enemy soldiers, but then the Sith show up, and they begin getting slaughtered, and it is at this point a Jedi comes and saves them.

Edited November 21, 2016 by cool-dude

[Essodu]

I would think it would also vary wildly on a case by case basis. For example, Palpatine would be essentially untouchable to anyone that does not wield the force. Back when some of the EU stories about him were considered valid by people, one of his feats included tearing open a wormhole that devastated an entire fleet of starships in the span of just a few seconds. He did this without ritual or even a preparatory period, requiring a mere act of will and the expenditure of a great deal of energy to accomplish the feat.

 

On the other hand you've got your average Jedi Knight or Sith, which there is plenty of evidence to suggest could potentially be taken down by a sufficiently prepared and skilled non-force user. The main issue would be that force users do indeed have much greater sensory perception than those without, sometimes even to the point of possessing a pseudo-controllable power of foresight. Catching one with their proverbial pants down can be quite difficult, if not outright impossible in the case of the aforementioned rare few that possess foresight.

 

As far as the game is concerned, the player characters are meant to represent the pinnacle of their chosen path. Each is unusually gifted or powerful in their own way, be it skillful use of firearms or a way above the norm connection to the force. Assuming equal skill and playing field, a force user would likely win due to the sheer ridiculous number of things at their disposal. Luckily most of the non-force users seem to make it a point not to fight "fair" whenever possible. Helps level the playing field a bit.

[LordCamTheGreat]

50 Megaton thermonuclear detonation >>>> the force.

 

BH wins.

 

Ummm both vitiate and nihilus devoured entire worlds at a time xD

[Frenesi]

Ummm both vitiate and nihilus devoured entire worlds at a time xD

 

Vitiate and Nihilus are on their own level though, and none of playable characters reach up there. Also, both went down like *******. Vitiate twice.

 

Our particular BH can take vast majority of sith and jedi out there, potentially all the way up to "playable force user" league, which is pretty damn high. Becouse if Agent can hold her ground against Dark Council member, I don't see why walking tank that BH is can not. Then Revan league starts, but guys there are generally established as OP as ****.

[Essodu]

Vitiate and Nihilus are on their own level though, and none of playable characters reach up there. Also, both went down like *******. Vitiate twice.

 

Our particular BH can take vast majority of sith and jedi out there, potentially all the way up to "playable force user" league, which is pretty damn high. Becouse if Agent can hold her ground against Dark Council member, I don't see why walking tank that BH is can not. Then Revan league starts, but guys there are generally established as OP as ****.

 

See, that's the thing. Satele Shan is supposed to have inherited quite a bit of power from her ancestors, Revan and Bastila, yet she comes to admit that the Jedi Knight PC has grown much stronger than her. The Sith Warrior, meanwhile, is constantly made out to be this monstrously powerful force user that nobody can quite figure out why, exactly, they're so strong. PC force users all have stories that build them up as these absolute beasts. Depending on choices made, the Sith Warrior may even be implied to be stronger than Revan himself.

 

So bearing that in mind, one must conclude that the playable force users are, in fact, floating around in the realm of OP. Still far from insane **** like Vitiate, of course, but also certainly nothing to shake a stick at. Storywise, I have a hard time believing that a BH or agent would win a head on fight against one of these individuals. They would require a lot of planning and prep work to make sure everything possible is working in their favor.

[Frenesi]

See, that's the thing. Satele Shan is supposed to have inherited quite a bit of power from her ancestors, Revan and Bastila, yet she comes to admit that the Jedi Knight PC has grown much stronger than her. The Sith Warrior, meanwhile, is constantly made out to be this monstrously powerful force user that nobody can quite figure out why, exactly, they're so strong. PC force users all have stories that build them up as these absolute beasts. Depending on choices made, the Sith Warrior may even be implied to be stronger than Revan himself.

 

So bearing that in mind, one must conclude that the playable force users are, in fact, floating around in the realm of OP. Still far from insane **** like Vitiate, of course, but also certainly nothing to shake a stick at. Storywise, I have a hard time believing that a BH or agent would win a head on fight against one of these individuals. They would require a lot of planning and prep work to make sure everything possible is working in their favor.

 

To be honest, I don't like using Knight as measuring stick. The guy has absolutely nothing special about him, yet somehow takes out Vitiate. He doesn't show any feats (again, outside of killing Vitiate for no *********** reason). However, he ends up being Battlemaster of the order, which gives some insight into his realistic power level. And that level is something BH deals with during his story.

 

Warrior is much simplier - she is clearly established as threat to Council members, which puts her somewhere above them/ on level with most powerful ones. Same for Inquisitor, being from upper levels of DC power, but not overpowering others too much (or he would be dead by now).

 

Consular is harder to evaluate, but she shows some pretty damn amazing force using over her history, and takes out First Son. So she is also somewhere up there with those 2.

 

Now, as I said, BH deals with previous Battlemaster, which gives us some picture on his level compared to Knigh. As for "higher DC" level, there's another character on that power level. Jadus, who at some poitn is called "second to the Emperor" if memory serves. Same Jadus who fails to kill Agent, who is arguably weaker fighter than BH, with lesser amount of tools at her disposal. Mind you, it also happens somewhere in the middle of Agent story, when she supposedly isn't quite experienced yet.

 

PS: genders are given based on my own characters

[Kinsal]

Sure TKM BH 3xxx some medic a exceptional virbo knuckle. I used to take out those op Jedi all time. "Jedi Stomp". Unless they were master enhancer and they would just force run away Edited November 28, 2016 by Kinsal

[Dementedwitterer]

Yes, a bounty hunter could beat a Jedi in a fight. It just means they have to prepare and think, Sonic grenades to throw you off balance, mines, grenades. Then there are long range surprise attacks. Snipe a Jedi from just outside the range of their sensory bubble, but not far enough that they have time to deflect the headshot with their sabers.

 

It's been a while since i played Kotor2 but Atton talks about Revan's Jedi Killers and the methods they use. You can probably find it on youtube. Although seeing as Atton himself s force sensitive it makes you wonder if he was subconsciously influencing his assassinatons. Food for thought.

[ekimmak]

I'd say it boils down to a bit of mental chess, where one side has a bigger advantage.

 

If a BH prepares a grenade, then the Jedi will see it, and just force push it back in their face. It's not going to work if they see it coming.

 

But there's a thing I noticed in the non-force user storylines. A lot of the time, they think they're going to win. Take that Sith girl on Dromund Kaas. She mocks you for thinking you have a chance, saying that "Only another Sith could defeat me. Or a Jedi. Or a really lucky mandalorian, I guess..." And I don't fight her fair. I get out of the way of her lightning, I smack her in the face to interrupt her casts, and she goes down. The advantage they have by being force sensitive is lost because they weren't expecting me to be so much trouble.

 

A lightsaber is dangerous. But so is being slammed into a concrete surface by rocket propulsion.

[DodgeHopper]

This brings up a point I've always wondered. Why do you never see Jedi/Sith employ tactics or techniques of enemies such as Bounty Hunters? You would think they could use such things as a 'force multiplier' for their abilities. I know that in one of the Knights of the Old Republic games I played as a gunslinging Jedi, and I had a great time of it.

[Essodu]

This brings up a point I've always wondered. Why do you never see Jedi/Sith employ tactics or techniques of enemies such as Bounty Hunters? You would think they could use such things as a 'force multiplier' for their abilities. I know that in one of the Knights of the Old Republic games I played as a gunslinging Jedi, and I had a great time of it.

 

Both Jedi and Sith are extremely prone to becoming drunk on their own power. It tends to make them quite arrogant, though Jedi are often thoroughly blind to this fact; Jedi believe themselves infallible, and Sith are normally too hopped up on the dark side to care either way. Those rare few that do take the pragmatic approach end up being absurdly dangerous. More often than not it's the stupidly powerful ones rather than the weak ones that resort to pragmatism, also. Darth Malgus would be a pretty good example of a powerful Sith that opted for a more common sense approach, at least in the later years of his life. He was as hotheaded as any other Sith during his youth.

[KWONRYU]

With prep-tijme, a Bounty Hunter/Batman could defeat even the Emperor/Superman.

 

Prep-time is important, knowing the targets weaknesses and exploiting them.

[Applejacxs]

Bounty Hunter(Mando) vs a Sith or Jedi.

 

Just like with anything it depends on the experience . I dont think its out of the questions that Mandos would have developed techniques to fight force users. Same with Republic , Imp Soldiers also. Your in a war were force users freely fight with you and against you. You need to be prepared.