Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne

[Simpanx]

Will the Command Rank system be legacy linked?

 

No, per character.

[Icykill_]

This is exactly as I see it too...which is sad...especially in a game that has promoted alts as much as this game has.

 

Very, I feel your pain with my 35 alts...

 

I think the next thing we'll need to start demanding is legacy linked to every characters... if you have Valor 100 on 1 toon, then you have it on all... if you have max command lvl, then you have it on all

[Nordecke]

I'm done. I can't do this RNG junk anymore. Subscription cancelled. The amount of money invested in this game and my desire to keep all of that progress intact has officially been outweighed by Bioware's lack of content creation and focus on forcing us to repeat content over and over again as if it were new.

 

I just can't do it anymore.

 

RIP SWTOR.

[Cox_The_Beast]

Personal thoughts below, so don't get mad at me for expressing my opinions here.

 

Given what I've been reading, this will be the death of Pugging Ops and HM FPs, for a good while at least. Sure, those aspects of the game can be hellish at times, when ppl who levelled without learning how to play (and gear up) get in said content and pretty much are unable to pull their weight, but this is not a solution to that problem. Randomness in Gearing is never a good thing, especially if said gear is needed to run content.

 

I have to admit, making the game itself give players the gear in a constant improvement parabole may be a good idea, but gating said gear behind not only grinding - which is acceptable considering this is an MMO, so that's part of the game itself - but also RNG will make it hellish if you get the same pieces of gear constantly, like I do. Heck, I lost the count of how many legacy set gloves I got from those Alliance Crates, since I apparently only get that part 90% of the times for whatever reason, save for the 5 sets I (recently) completed. Over how many, 20?

 

IMHO, there's a far better solution to the problems the game is facing, be it the lack of subbing - which can be explained with the lack of committment this game needs, after all you can pretty much read a book while playing and go through anyway - or the huge amount of ppl who have no idea how to play. Make the game require a bit of thought process to be played in the first place.

 

If a player realizes that spamming the basic attack won't get him through, he'll obviously try another approach.

If a player realizes his gear is not making him perform as well as he should, he'll understand said gear is not the correct one for him.

Let the players learn how to play, and they'll not only solve the problem of "content is too hard" by improving themselves on their own accord, but they'll also not get the wrong gear anymore like they do now, because they simply won't get through that way. Easy peasy.

 

This is how ppl get hooked into a game, usually: there's a constant reward in terms of new stuff you can do and see once you get better at it. And let's face it, this game never was rocket science to begin with.

 

Tbh, while I always consider the story of a game I play before trying the game itself, I'm afraid SWTOR is becoming a movie with buttonmashing segments more and more as things go on. Which kind of defeats the purpose, at least to me.

And while story is all nice and good, it has to have the same weight as the action that is mixed into it, otherwise the action will become annoying. This game used to make me think "I'll get through this mission, destroying the enemies that are between me and my objective", because it was satisfying to face the challenge and get past it, but now it's turning into a "Great, I can't wait to watch the next cutscene, if only there were less things to blow away it'd be better though" thing.

 

When I began playing, there was a lot of knowledge needed to get through, because overlevelling and overgearing were simply impractical and/or extremely time consuming. Sure, back then top lvl was 50 but you get the idea. It was a constant parabole of growth that made players get through content, not their equipment only. As a result, players felt committed to Subscribe or at least stick around, and of course seeing "incompetent" ppl (don't read it as an offence, but as "ppl lacking the required knowledge to get through the game") was such a rare occurrance it was worth reporting to friends, in a joking attitude.

Now, I honestly see little point in subscribing more than those 2 months here and there to unlock content which I'll get through in a couple weeks tops anyway. And as sad as it is, I don't think this method of "enforcing" subscriptions will make many want to subscribe either.

 

Also, funny enough this pretty much goes against the whole Legacy System itself. I've run a respectable amount of characters through the old Vanilla Story and about 1/3 of them through the first 9 chapters of Kotfe - and of course, all of these also cleared every sort of content before that - and all the times having those alts was a perk, not a strain, because they would support each other, be it with crafting, gearing or filling spots in groups.

After what they're thinking to do, however this won't be possible, as every single character will be gated by itself in terms of gear and, because of that, in terms of content they can access. So, why would I even bother gearing all of my required (read it as "one character per role per side") characters, rather than gearing one or two of them tops? The huge amount of work needed would make it at the very least impractical to try using the same approach used until now.

I fear this in turn will mean less ppl running group content, at least in the time immediately after release - if only because ppl ought to have the common sense to stick to content they are geared for. I mean... How did we even get to this line of thought?

 

TL;DR: I'm afraid this will mean the end of alts as a perk for this game, and that group content will suffer too because of the absurd amount of work needed to get to the point when a character is ready for basic content. Unless RNG is fine tuned to give everyone only what they need, that is, but I don't see that happening... Maybe making players learn how to play by default could be a better option?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Cox_The_Beast

[Otchiver]

Alert: Mass Exodus incoming

[VegasTheLost]

As for the fear of getting tank gear to our dps, please check this

 

You can select your role.

 

edit: tank, instead of healer

Edited October 18, 2016 by VegasTheLost

[Icykill_]

Alert: Mass Exodus incoming

 

Yep, clear the door

[Otchiver]

Yep, clear the door

 

#Holdthedoor

 

FTFY

[andveryginger]

As an old school SWG player, I'm having a bit of flashback here.

 

This new gearing system is not TOR, in much the same way that the "combat upgrade" and final expansions of Galaxies were not SWG. It wasn't that they changed the combat system -- it needed a few fixes, no doubt -- but the CU completely altered the way that the game was played. Previously, characters could craft and run businesses; they could dance in the cantina, buffing the hunting parties before they went out into the field; their smugglers could stand in the courtyard in Coronet City and slice weapons to fine-tune and tweak them for better performance. This alternate style of play -- and the sandbox feel -- got blown away by the CU. This was the reason my husband and I left the game. Not because of the combat shift, but because SOE basically told us that the way we liked to play the game was invalid. That it changed to a Star Wars-veneer over a WoW-clone was insult to injury.

 

And yes, I played World of Warcraft. But I wanted SWG to be SWG -- not WoW.

 

At the moment, TOR is the only MMO that I play. I gave up WoW after Pandaria, when the good gear for my toon was locked behind too many rep grinds -- doing the same dailies, the same heroics, over and over and over again. This, after a major move to simplify complicated classes like Affliction-spec Warlock and, eventually, even the Unholy-spec Death Knight, both of which were my bread and butter. Not to say they weren't complicated -- the Affliction 'lock especially had a complicated rotation, which relied greatly on DoT-timers and other add-ons to fire correctly. But making it to max level and DPS -- and being able to play the class well -- was a journeyman's reward, not something to be gained simply by subscribing.

 

Just like 2005, I want TOR to stay TOR -- not transform into Overwatch or any other game. This new gearing system? Definitely isn't TOR. Nor are the changes to the combat system. I recognize that BioWare is attempting to simplify gearing and classes to make them more accessible to new arrivals. There comes a point, however -- just like WoW did -- that things are oversimplified and you begin to alienate the veteran player base. We have poured hours into this game, have formed friendships, developed attachments to toons. We've learned our classes, our rotations; we continue to learn and grow and earn gear. Those of us who are subscribers, have paid small fortunes into this game, and some since launch. This major overhaul is, like the CU in SWG, a slap in the face for the veteran player community.

 

Very few within that community have asked for these sort of changes. What we have asked for -- to fix old bugs and glitches; to add more ops and PvE content; to add more warzones and for better ranked PvP rewards; to make choices matter in well-written KOTOR-style stories. What we would love is for BioWare to concentrate on that and quit trying to make TOR something it isn't.

[Flying-Brian]

Eric and Devs, could you please take a look back at the patch notes for patch 1.1.0, which was is from 18 January 2012.

 

Battlemaster Gear Tokens have been converted into Battlemaster Commendations, which can be used to purchase any Battlemaster gear. This allows players to purchase any piece of gear instead of requiring them to purchase the piece indicated by the token.

Battlemaster Bags now contain Battlemaster Commendations instead of Battlemaster Gear Tokens. They still also contain Champion Commendations.

 

Thats when RNG gearing was removed from the game. 1 month after the game was launched, it was removed because it was such a crap system.

 

Get we get an RNG subsciption plan? When its time to pay for a sub, BW gets an RNG payment, from $0 - $15 each month.

[Psychopyro]

As for the fear of getting tank gear to our dps, please check this

 

You can select your role.

 

edit: tank, instead of healer

That is just for entering instances. There is no more group finder in it's current from, it's controlled from that screen.

[DRMM]

Battlemaster Gear Tokens have been converted into Battlemaster Commendations, which can be used to purchase any Battlemaster gear. This allows players to purchase any piece of gear instead of requiring them to purchase the piece indicated by the token.

Battlemaster Bags now contain Battlemaster Commendations instead of Battlemaster Gear Tokens. They still also contain Champion Commendations.

This. How does BW not remember that?

Edited October 18, 2016 by DRMM

[Vhaegrant]

As for the fear of getting tank gear to our dps, please check this

 

You can select your role.

 

edit: tank, instead of healer

 

That image has nothing to do with reward crate but is the replacement/additional way of queuing/ entering the content you want to play.

All that has been said so far about the command crates is that they select from a loot list determined by Advanced Class.

[Andryah]

 

[/snipped the top part, for brevity, but it was great analysis on your part].......

 

TL;DR: I'm afraid this will mean the end of alts as a perk for this game, and that group content will suffer too because of the absurd amount of work needed to get to the point when a character is ready for basic content. Unless RNG is fine tuned to give everyone only what they need, that is, but I don't see that happening... Maybe making players learn how to play by default could be a better option?

 

Why would this affect alts and alt-it is? It's not like a lot of players ran alts for the purposes of pushing them through new content and rep grinds. Some did I am sure, but I doubt many players bothered running all their alts through the more time intensive aspects of end game. Alts in this game have generally thrived on the core story and class arcs from release up through SoR.

 

As for group content, the only content that will likely suffer is the OPs run by progression raiders. They are actually adding some really nice 4 mans (Uprisings) and Eric hinted at some 8 man group content coming as well (more in January on this, and I doubt it is OPs).

Edited October 18, 2016 by Andryah

[ReclaimerDonar]

Get we get an RNG subsciption plan? When its time to pay for a sub, BW gets an RNG payment, from $0 - $15 each month.

 

I support this!

[JamieKirby]

Well, from experience from my leveling right now, is if you do all the content on the places that are part of Chapter 1, you will be level 65 by the end of chapter 1 or slightly after the start of chapter 2...so i am guessing you will be level 70 long before you finish the class story and i always use the mods from the vendors every 10 levels or so and 190 (current highest you can get for 2 data crystals each) is good enough to do all of the KOTFE content and considering that the heroics that give crates at the end of it tend to get me a belt and bracers everytime..

 

So, in the end, not much has changed....loot wise, all you are complaining about is the change itself......its something different and you are freaking out.

[Tanitha]

Why would this affect alts and alt-it is? It's not like a lot of players ran alts for the purposes of pushing them through new content and rep grinds. Some did I am sure, but I doubt many players bothered running all their alts through the more time intensive aspects of end game. Alts in this game have generally thrived on the core story and class arcs from release up through SoR.

 

As for group content, the only content that will likely suffer is the OPs run by progression raiders. They are actually adding some really nice 4 mans (Uprisings) and Eric hinted at some 8 man group content coming as well (more in January on this, and I doubt it is OPs).

 

Well, I have 4 marauders and 3 sentinels. 1 of my sentinels has not even done SoR let alone KOTFE. I can though use legacy gear to play ops with her, as I have 224 set from my main mara. All my maras and sents use that legacy gear. Now I will have to grind gear ON EACH ONE. In the old system, I could get crafted 220 implants, relics and earpiece, so using just the legacy gear I had immediately another alt ready for end game content. With new system, I'll have to get gear on EACH ONE if what they are saying is correct and gear is LOCKED for each character.

 

i also have 2 snipers, and 2 gunslingers again using same legacy gear (less geared, just 220 but using them when we need more ranged instead of mdps).

 

For me that makes me need to grind gear on 11 toons at least. And yes I have played the same ops at least on 4 maras to get one piece that I needed, or to help a fellow raider get something they needed, because of lockouts. With current system, I will need a lot of time to just gear up 1 TOON let alone more.

 

And for what? For no end-game content? For playing SOLO crap again and again? I don't even have a lot of money, I think on all my toons together, maybe 20 mil. I don't much grind heroics for money, or similar, I preferred doing some ops mostly, with PvP mixed in. They are more fun.

 

I always spent money on stuff I needed, or wanted. When I do heroics, I usually do them alone because I gather mats, and craft along the way.

[SgtJeremy]

Well it was a good run with SWTOR for me. I sub randomly depending on how often I plan on playing. If I need to be constantly subbed to gear, and RNG gear at that, I'm not really interested. I honestly had a lot of fun with this game, but all good things come to an end I suppose.

[ShadowLordIV]

@Musco: Do you guys know why you decided to add RnG to necessary end game loot? No new operations come upon release won't kill the game, but adding RnG factor to getting necessary gear will definitely kill the game. I have been playing since 1.0 and in 1.0 the rng loot factor caused a lot of problems and when I mean a lot of problems. You guys took over in 2.0 towards the end of a great era when the game was extremely populated and since then I have only seen the depopulation of a great game. All be it this engine that the game is on is not the greatest the game play is an excellent feature. Why not create a system that guarentee's the loot you need by letting you choose the things that you need. It would be redundant to get 2 chest pieces back to back and why not make the CXP system legacy based as well to gear alts out without the grind. To be honest it is like you guys are reverting back to 1.0 while trying to keep some of 4.0 in the game. 4.0 + 1.0 = 5.0 get it :rak_01: Ohh well please do not create a RnG scale factor necessary loot and you guys are already killing the pvp community by taking away the set gear you can easily get. Say a pvp'er who does no operations will be at a disadvantage over a pvper that also does end game raiding cause he will go through CXP faster then the regular pvper and what will that regular pvp'er do? Leave the game because he or she will not want to grind out to get on equal terms. On top of that you are starting season 8 fresh off the bat with no one getting pvp gear right off the bat? You guys need to fix the gearing system. Need to make it more guaranteed. If a person clears an operation they should be guaranteed a set bonus piece that they need or a left side piece that they need, not.. ohhhh I just got 3 ear pieces in a row *** Mate. Please change the RNG to something that isn't RNG...

[Kai-Del_Serromis]

I support this!

 

As do I

[-Wes-]

I think this revision holds promise. I definitely like that it allows players to choose their own path to gearing, and that's a huge boon for the player base. In addition, it greatly simplifies the maintenance of gear from a developer perspective, and that is good for all of us!

 

The random pack drop aspect, though, is just questionable strategy. Players HATE random drops when it comes to gear. I don't think any of us really mind random drops when the content doesn't actually count for something (CM packs), but random drops when you just need that one last piece of set bonus?

 

A better option would be tokens that players can trade in for whatever gear they need as well as for non-gear cosmetic items so there's still something to get even after a player is fully geared. Maybe, on top of the token, have a crate with random drops as well (non-gear again; maybe color crystals, decos, mounts, pets), which could keep people coming back for more "levels" even after they have the gear they want.

 

Finally, gear stats:

 

1. Please, make these things reasonably decent from an optimization standpoint.

2. Use tokens, one type only, and just set gear pricing such that the best tier costs more than the lowest tier. Example: T1 costs one token per piece; T2 costs three; T3 costs eight.

 

Again, give players the latitude to choose their own path to gearing. Some will want the decent gear with an early bonus. Others will want to "save up" and get that best gear as quickly as they can. In all cases, we want to enjoy ourselves while we play the game - the rewards should just come as an added bonus for having spent the time experiencing that enjoyment.

[AlixMV]

Eric and Devs, could you please take a look back at the patch notes for patch 1.1.0, which was is from 18 January 2012.

 

 

 

Thats when RNG gearing was removed from the game. 1 month after the game was launched, it was removed because it was such a crap system.

 

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

[unibim]

So... thats it with answering? What happened with "I'll be answering any questions in those threads all week."? Edited October 18, 2016 by unibim

[TrekkerVGER]

Unwanted changes on this scale made me leave Star Wars Galaxies in November of 2005. Large scale, unwanted changes made me leave Lord of the Rings Online in November of 2013. I certainly won't miss this game any more than them if this goes live.

[HORSE-DRAGON]

Most of my characters have a lot of data crystals in store. What should I do with them ? Spend them on gear or wait for new content ?