Sell Arma Rasa/HK-55 recovery mission for 2- 5$ on web as digital extension of Kotfe.

[Riftgrinder]

Congratulations - You've won a medal for completely missing the point of my rant.

Not really, I just chose to dismiss your point.

If the main reason you stayed subbed was because of the sub rewards, then you really need to re-examine your life. Considering how big a deal you make this out to be, I start to wonder.

 

Most people who subscribe do so to have a superior, better experience, I assume. The sub rewards are a novelty, I don't know how many players really care for them. It's just something to make us feel appreciated. And having a 6-month early access to a piece of content would make me feel very appreciated.

Up till now it's always just been some trinkets, but this is different altogether.

[Ratajack]

I don't think anyone expects BW to just give it away. There will be a pricetag, I'm sure of it. And there should be.

 

And that price tag should be a minimum of $120, IF BW decides to cater to the "entitled, whining, crying, have to have even though I KNOW I did not meet the requirements to have it" at the expense of those that actually MET the the requirements to have access to the BONUS chapter.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

So? Because it's a standalone story, it doesn't count? What kind of logic is that?

 

Because it is NOT in any way central to the game or part of the core story, then not having access to that BONUS chapter does not in any way affect any player's ability to play the game. Therefore, not having access to something they did NOT meet the criteria to receive will not harm them.

[Riftgrinder]

I'll try to explain:

If they give bonus content to everyone for free or for 4 USD/EUR. Then a lot more players would just wait until they sell the content on website or CM instead of remaining subbed. Of course there would still be small amount of players who sub to get full access to game but let me say this: number of subs would be a lot lower.

 

And that means less money = less money for new content.

We already see it on forums. Players crying about lack of end game content.

I just think it's funny you think the main reason people stay subbed is because of the the rewards. And if what you think is true... Well, that'd be just sad. Some kind of Stockholm Syndrome going on.

 

And BTW, this forum and reddit is just a small bubble. It doesn't reflect the game's whole playerbase, just a small subset of players. So take anything you read here with a huge grain of salt.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Riftgrinder

[Riftgrinder]

And that price tag should be a minimum of $120, IF BW decides to cater to the "entitled, whining, crying, have to have even though I KNOW I did not meet the requirements to have it" at the expense of those that actually MET the the requirements to have access to the BONUS chapter.

 

 

 

 

 

Because it is NOT in any way central to the game or part of the core story, then not having access to that BONUS chapter does not in any way affect any player's ability to play the game. Therefore, not having access to something they did NOT meet the criteria to receive will not harm them.

I'm loving this! $120? So the only reason you subbed for eight months straight was because of the potential rewards that you didn't know anything about beforehand? And not because of the benefits you get as a subscriber?

Edited September 17, 2016 by Riftgrinder

[CrazyCT]

Not really, I just chose to dismiss your point.

If the main reason you stayed subbed was because of the sub rewards, then you really need to re-examine your life. Considering how big a deal you make this out to be, I start to wonder.

 

Most people who subscribe do so to have a superior, better experience, I assume. The sub rewards are a novelty, I don't know how many players really care for them. It's just something to make us feel appreciated. And having a 6-month early access to a piece of content would make me feel very appreciated.

Up till now it's always just been some trinkets, but this is different altogether.

 

Wow, you've won another medal. I'll try and explain again. This time, try and catch the point I'm making. Don't be embarrassed if you have to read it more than once, you clearly missed it last time.

 

If BW/EA release the bonus content, even for a price, they are basically telling everyone that it's ok to unsub for 11 months of the year. "Only sub for one month, get the full story. For a small fee, you can also get any bonus things we told our loyal fans that they would be the only ones to get."

 

Now, just about every loyal fan seeing this will either follow the new plan (everyone else is getting away with it, why shouldn't they) and unsub, knowing they can just pick up the gifts later if they want them, or they will just walk away altogether at the "betrayal" of giving exclusive gifts to everyone.

 

You'll be able to count on the fingers of one foot how many months EA will let this game continue for with no subscriptions.

Edited September 17, 2016 by CrazyCT

[Ratajack]

I'm loving this! $120? So the only reason you subbed for eight months was because of the potential rewards that you didn't know anything about beforehand? And not because of the benefits you get as a subscriber?

 

Whether those who actually MET the requirements to have access to the BONUS chapter received anything else for the $120 they paid to remain subscribed for those 8 months is IRRELEVANT.

 

The fact is that everyone who MET the criteria to have access to the BONUS chapter subscribed for 8 months at a cost of $120, based on the single subscription model. Did they pay that $120 solely to access the BONUS chapter? Maybe some did, and maybe some did not, but EACH AND EVERY player who MET the criteria to receive the BONUS chapter DID pay to subscribe for those 8 months.

 

To think that anyone who did NOT meet the criteria should be able to pay a PITTANCE to have access to something they KNOW they are NOT entitled to access, when those who actually MET the criteria paid $120 to have access to the BONUS chapter is beyond ENTITLED.

[masterceil]

So the only reason you subbed for eight months straight was because of the potential rewards that you didn't know anything about beforehand?

 

We knew it was going to be a playable chapter. Your whole argument is that this sub reward was content, not a trinket - which is something everybody new beforehand, yes.

 

And yeah, I was considering letting my sub lapse. I could easily afford most of the unlocks I need to keep my life comfortable. I did specifically keep my sub active because I wanted the reward. You could say BioWare incentivised my continued loyalty with the reward. If I knew the sub rewards would eventually just be up for sale on the CM, I might see it as just another unlock I can buy, and not support the game with my $13-15/mo.

 

So yeah, I knew what it was beforehand - not that it involved the Shroud, but that it was playable content - and I did work to maintain my subscription for it. Next argument?

[Riftgrinder]

Wow, you've won another medal. I'll try and explain again. This time, try and catch the point I'm making. Don't be embarrassed if you have to read it more than once, you clearly missed it last time.

 

If BW/EA release the bonus content, even for a price, they are basically telling everyone that it's ok to unsub for 11 months of the year. "Only sub for one month, get the full story. For a small fee, you can also get any bonus things we told our loyal fans that they would be the only ones to get."

 

Now, just about every loyal fan seeing this will either follow the new plan (everyone else is getting away with it, why shouldn't they) and unsub, knowing they can just pick up the gifts later if they want them, or they will just walk away altogether at the "betrayal" of giving exclusive gifts to everyone.

 

You'll be able to count on the fingers of one foot how many EA will let this game continue for with no subscriptions.

Right, because we all know the only reason people subscribe to SWTOR is because of the sub rewards. /sarcasm

Whether those who actually MET the requirements to have access to the BONUS chapter received anything else for the $120 they paid to remain subscribed for those 8 months is IRRELEVANT.

 

The fact is that everyone who MET the criteria to have access to the BONUS chapter subscribed for 8 months at a cost of $120, based on the single subscription model. Did they pay that $120 solely to access the BONUS chapter? Maybe some did, and maybe some did not, but EACH AND EVERY player who MET the criteria to receive the BONUS chapter DID pay to subscribe for those 8 months.

 

To think that anyone who did NOT meet the criteria should be able to pay a PITTANCE to have access to something they KNOW they are NOT entitled to access, when those who actually MET the criteria paid $120 to have access to the BONUS chapter is beyond ENTITLED.

Now, now... You're the one acting like an entitled jerk. If the only reason they stayed subbed for 8 months was due to future sub rewards... They only have themselves to blame. And them rage-quitting would most likely be negligible to SWTOR's bottom line.

I, once again, assume BW will most likely more than make up for whatever they "lost" from these players by allowing rest of the player base to buy in.

[Monumenta]

SWTOR Knights of the Fallen Empire Terms and Conditions:

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

 

So you and I and Bioware all agree, the word exclusive has never been used leaving them with all options open in the future.

 

You can pretend the grammar proves your point, it obviously proves mine.

[Riftgrinder]

We knew it was going to be a playable chapter. Your whole argument is that this sub reward was content, not a trinket - which is something everybody new beforehand, yes.

 

And yeah, I was considering letting my sub lapse. I could easily afford most of the unlocks I need to keep my life comfortable. I did specifically keep my sub active because I wanted the reward. You could say BioWare incentivised my continued loyalty with the reward. If I knew the sub rewards would eventually just be up for sale on the CM, I might see it as just another unlock I can buy, and not support the game with my $13-15/mo.

 

So yeah, I knew what it was beforehand - not that it involved the Shroud, but that it was playable content - and I did work to maintain my subscription for it. Next argument?

And we thank you for your service.

 

The ONLY reason you stay subbed was because of the playable chapter at the end of it? The one you knew almost nothing about? That seems wasteful, if you ask me.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Riftgrinder

[CrazyCT]

And we thank you for your service.

 

The ONLY reason you stay subbed was because of the playable chapter at the end of it? The one you knew almost nothing about? That seems wasteful, if you ask me.

 

So you didn't sub, because you didn't want the bonus stuff, but now you are here cause you want the bonus stuff?

[jauvtus]

The golden rule: Whoever owns the gold, makes the rule.

Who makes more money for BW? The ones who sub for months/years continuously, vast majority of them regularly buying in Cartel Market OR the ones who sub for 1 month to access the full expansion and pay a little extra for "sub rewards" (srsly though, how can one buy a SUB REWARD??), minority of them occasionally buying in CM?

So who should BW cater for?

[Monumenta]

The golden rule: Whoever owns the gold, makes the rule.

Who makes more money for BW? The ones who sub for months/years continuously, vast majority of them regularly buying in Cartel Market OR the ones who sub for 1 month to access the full expansion and pay a little extra for "sub rewards" (srsly though, how can one buy a SUB REWARD??), minority of them occasionally buying in CM?

So who should BW cater for?

 

Your argument is that they should back the Cartel Market shop over everything?

 

What storyline?

It doesn't have Kephess.

 

best argument in thread so far

Edited September 17, 2016 by Monumenta

[Riftgrinder]

So you didn't sub, because you didn't want the bonus stuff, but now you are here cause you want the bonus stuff?

Clearly:

First of all, I'm pretty sure you only have to play up to Chapter IX in order for it to unlock. So, BW, did indeed retroactively change the TaC, assuming what you posted here is true.

 

And secondly, I have already played through it. I enjoyed it far more than I thought I would and I want more people to experience it. And I don't want this chapter to fall into obscurity behind an exclusivity wall.

 

This is why I want it be exclusive for a time (to make some of us feel we've gotten our money's worth), and then be available to the public. Not for free, of course.

=============

The golden rule: Whoever owns the gold, makes the rule.

Who makes more money for BW? The ones who sub for months/years continuously, vast majority of them regularly buying in Cartel Market OR the ones who sub for 1 month to access the full expansion and pay a little extra for "sub rewards" (srsly though, how can one buy a SUB REWARD??), minority of them occasionally buying in CM?

So who should BW cater for?

To the people who are willing to pay, of course.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Riftgrinder

[Ratajack]

Right, because we all know the only reason people subscribe to SWTOR is because of the sub rewards. /sarcasm

 

First, see the post a bit earlier in the thread in which the poster confirms that at least SOME people DID subscribe only to be eligible to have access to the BONUS chapter.

 

Now, now... Everyone had the same opportunity to subscribe for those 8 months... Those who did NOT have only themselves to blame. And them rage-quitting would most likely be negligible to SWTOR's bottom line.

 

Fixed that for you/.

 

 

I, once again, assume BW will most likely more than make up for whatever they "lost" from these players by allowing rest of the player base to buy in.

 

How do you expect a few ONE TIME purchases to "more than make up" for the loss of many months of RECURRING revenue, especially when you want those ONE TIME PURCHASES to cost only a PITTANCE of the $15/month that subscribers pay?

Edited September 17, 2016 by Ratajack

[ZanyaCross]

The golden rule: Whoever owns the gold, makes the rule.

Who makes more money for BW? The ones who sub for months/years continuously, vast majority of them regularly buying in Cartel Market OR the ones who sub for 1 month to access the full expansion and pay a little extra for "sub rewards" (srsly though, how can one buy a SUB REWARD??), minority of them occasionally buying in CM?

So who should BW cater for?

 

Subs get free cc each month so please don't bring that tired "subs spend more money on the market" BS here. It's been debunked so often that it should be on Snopes.

[Ratajack]

Clearly:

 

=============

 

To the people who are willing to pay, of course.

 

Those willing to pay (the most) would be the SUBSCRIBERS, who regularly financially support this game.

[ZanyaCross]

First, see the post a bit earlier in the thread in which the poster confirms that at least ONE person DID subscribe only to be eligible to have access to the BONUS chapter, and as we all know anecdotal evidence of one or two people is acceptable as long as they reinforce my own erroneous opinion.

 

Those willing to pay (the most) would be the SUBSCRIBERS, who regularly financially support this game, but let's ignore what a small minority they are and that as a whole FTPs probably spend more collectively.

 

 

Fixed that for you.

Edited September 17, 2016 by ZanyaCross

[jauvtus]

Which is better business-wise?

1. You give a bonus chapter for those who sub for 15$/month for 8 months. Let's say 1000 subs, that's 120,000$

2. You give the bonus chapter away for 5$. Let's say 10000 buy it, so 10 times more than the subs would have subbed, that's 50,000$.

[Ratajack]

Subs get free cc each month so please don't bring that tired "subs spend more money on the market" BS here. It's been debunked so often that it should be on Snopes.

 

Subs still are the ones who financially support this game.

 

BW has stated multiple times that the VAST MAJORITY of CM sales are made by SUBSCRIBERS.

 

If Johnny wants to start subscribing now and maintain his subscription, to receive future subscriber rewards, I applaud him. Johnny does NOT qualify to receive ANY past subscriber rewards if he was NOT subscribed on the appropriate date(s), though.

[ZanyaCross]

Which is better business-wise?

1. You give a bonus chapter for those who sub for 15$/month for 8 months. Let's say 1000 subs, that's 120,000$

2. You give the bonus chapter away for 5$. Let's say 10000 buy it, so 10 times more than the subs would have subbed, that's 50,000$.

 

Most of those subs would have subbed anyway. Also, $5 for the chapter is completely at odds with the pricing in the cartel market and deliberately unrealistic and disingenuous.

[ZanyaCross]

BW has stated multiple times that the VAST MAJORITY of CM sales are made by SUBSCRIBERS (who get free cartel coins every month, so of course they'll spend more on the market).

 

Fixed that for you.

Edited September 17, 2016 by ZanyaCross

[jauvtus]

Subs get free cc each month so please don't bring that tired "subs spend more money on the market" BS here. It's been debunked so often that it should be on Snopes.

 

I know we get free CC. But who buys more CC directly? Subs or preferred players?

 

No, that's not a real question, BW confirmed majority of CC is bought by subs, not prefs.

[masterceil]

And we thank you for your service.

 

The ONLY reason you stay subbed was because of the playable chapter at the end of it? The one you knew almost nothing about? That seems wasteful, if you ask me.

 

I've got a bottle of Tanqueray on my counter, that's $25 I'm sure I could have spent elsewhere. I've got a motorcycle in front of my apartment, that's $256/mo that I wouldn't strictly need to be spending, seeing as I do also own a car. I've got a 40" telly that I mostly use to watch Amazon Prime videos on, despite having a computer that could do the same. (I've also got Amazon Prime.)

 

I often spend money on little things to make my life more enjoyable. I'm sure you do, too. 50¢/day isn't too much to get a groovie new companion and an extra chapter on all my toons that I care to take through KOTFE.

[Riftgrinder]

First, see the post a bit earlier in the thread in which the poster confirms that at least SOME people DID subscribe only to be eligible to have access to the BONUS chapter.

True. I think it's just a small subset of players, though. I can't know for sure, I don't have the metrics.

Fixed that for you/.

Thank you, I guess? (Not really.)

How do you expect a few ONE TIME purchases to "more than make up" for the loss of many months of RECURRING revenue, especially when you want those ONE TIME PURCHASES to cost only a PITTANCE of the $15/month that subscribers pay?

If you threw $15/month at BW/EA for a potentially short and unknown episode you didn't really know anything about. Then the question you gotta ask yourself now is: was it worth it? Was this 1-hour playthrough worth "$120"? Pretty sure most would say 'no', if this was the ONLY thing they were paying for. With that money they could've bought 2 AAA titles Day 1 and gotten a lot more value out of the same amount of money.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Riftgrinder