Is this lack of communication normal?

[Ghisallo]

to the OP yes its normal at this point. Why?

 

1. as others said, at one point, due to things on PTS that were unpopular, the family members of a Dev were actually stalked irl.

 

2. now note, this is speculation. We have now had 2 straight quarterly reports where SWTOR was not mentioned. Battle front? Yes. Galaxy of Heroes? Again yes. This is not good in terms of how they view the financial performance of the game.

 

3. There is a dynamic I have seen in many MMOs. When you are between expacs people can get bored under the best of circumstances due to running out of content. For many KOTFE exacerbated this issue because of the dearth of new content. However this is somewhat mitigated when you have an IP like this one. They problem is that said mitigation only goes so far. If in advance of an expac you announce changes that upset people those who may have otherwise stayed leave before the expac even dropped.

 

If you keep stringing them along however with platitudes and vague meaningless spin, they may stay long enough for the expac to drop and then, even if they are annoyed by the changes, they have paid for the expac (so you got some money out of them) and they may stay anyway simply because there is something new to do, even if they are annoyed by the changes. The tricky part is to make sure the "spin" you put out is crafted in such a way as to mollify a majority of players enough so that it is an effective string.

 

I think a good indicator that #3 is correct is the vagueness of their statements regarding new group content. Things like "we are talking about it"..."we would like to add some"... etc. I think that now, SWTOR is stuck where they are at. They did a rather substantial paradigm shift with this expac and that chased off a lot of the FP/OPs runners. It did attract some story oriented people, though the server status listings speak for themselves imo. Thing is is it very unlikely that the people who left will return. Since it appears their current budgeting only permits them to roll out one type of content in any significant amount this would amount to them chasing off the few people that returned because of the story focus without replacing them with group content players. BUT if they were to come out and say this they likely fear a decent portion of their remaining group players would bail.

 

In short this expac put them in a bad spot when it comes to communicating in a way that can actually inform the player based because it would likely result in even more lost players.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Ghisallo

[DarthSpuds]

to the OP yes its normal at this point. Why?

 

1. as others said, at one point, due to things on PTS that were unpopular, the family members of a Dev were actually stalked irl.

 

This simply cannot continue being used as an excuse for Bioware treating the people who provide the funds that pay their wages with complete and utter contempt.

 

All The Best

[ZanyaCross]

This simply cannot continue being used as an excuse for Bioware treating the people who provide the funds that pay their wages with complete and utter contempt.

 

All The Best

 

Ugh, statements like that are a prime example of why the community deserves to be kept at arm's length. Too many people here have a maturity problem, and all it takes is that one in a thousand to become a real problem.

[Ghisallo]

This simply cannot continue being used as an excuse for Bioware treating the people who provide the funds that pay their wages with complete and utter contempt.

 

All The Best

 

Well if you noted I had a LOT more going on there than that one sentence but I do think it is relevant again if what Eric references here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9053205#edit9053205 for reasons that would be apparent to those who have seen the information. Now the other factors are also part of it. If it was just #1 I would agree with you, no excuse, however it isn't the only factor.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Ghisallo

[Tsillah]

Do you have a fever? I never said any such thing. I laughed at your claim that you personally polled 879 people or what ever absurd number it was you claimed from you guild to find out their opinions on KotFE. Congrats on being in a guild in an MMO? I guess that's what you were fishing for here??

 

It is possible in theory that you are trying to have an actual discussion here about the topic. If that's the case then I can only point out that condescension and agression are not the best methods to conduct a fruitful discussion.

 

However, there is the distinct possibility that you're attempting to get a reaction from people with this abrasive style. And instead of directly trolling people as the term would be, you seem to prefer to ride on the edge of what's acceptable or perhaps just on the outside of it, so that it doesn't entirely look like trolling but the same effect is achieved.

 

Are you unaware of your agressive style or is this a matter of the end justifies the means?

 

You've hammered in the nail quite a few times in this thread already I'd say.

[DarthSpuds]

Ugh, statements like that are a prime example of why the community deserves to be kept at arm's length. Too many people here have a maturity problem, and all it takes is that one in a thousand to become a real problem.

 

Ah, I see.

 

So how about everyone gets sent to prison now, because statistically around 30% of us (based on average US figures) will commit some kind of criminal offence during our lives.

 

Knee-jerk over-reaction that actually causes more problems than it solves.

 

Yup, that's definitely the way to go.

 

All The Best

[Bruticis]

It is possible in theory that you are trying to have an actual discussion here about the topic. If that's the case then I can only point out that condescension and agression are not the best methods to conduct a fruitful discussion.

 

However, there is the distinct possibility that you're attempting to get a reaction from people with this abrasive style. And instead of directly trolling people as the term would be, you seem to prefer to ride on the edge of what's acceptable or perhaps just on the outside of it, so that it doesn't entirely look like trolling but the same effect is achieved.

 

Are you unaware of your agressive style or is this a matter of the end justifies the means?

 

You've hammered in the nail quite a few times in this thread already I'd say.

 

I certainly have been accused of being too abrasive both in real life and other forums when I feel someone is being abusive or exhibiting bully-like behavior; I do admit that and it's probably not a good habit to maintain. There's a certain mindset from a select few individuals around here that I find deplorable. These individuals are extremely toxic and incredibly abusive towards both the developers and anyone that's currently enjoying the game. While I don't consider my comments as "fighting fire with fire", I can see why some might view it as such.

 

I'm well aware no one made me the SWTOR forum internet police but it's quite difficult to watch these miscreants continue their abuse without being called out for their behavior. I think if you searched my previous posts you'd be hard pressed to find any of my comments leveled at anyone that's simply offering negative feedback in an adult fashion. They're several dozen threads on the first page alone filled with complaints and you don't see me in any of those.

[Tsillah]

I certainly have been accused of being too abrasive both in real life and other forums when I feel someone is being abusive or exhibiting bully-like behavior; I do admit that and it's probably not a good habit to maintain. There's a certain mindset from a select few individuals around here that I find deplorable. These individuals are extremely toxic and incredibly abusive towards both the developers and anyone that's currently enjoying the game. While I don't consider my comments as "fighting fire with fire", I can see why some might view it as such.

 

I'm well aware no one made me the SWTOR forum internet police but it's quite difficult to watch these miscreants continue their abuse without being called out for their behavior. I think if you searched my previous posts you'd be hard pressed to find any of my comments leveled at anyone that's simply offering negative feedback in an adult fashion. They're several dozen threads on the first page alone filled with complaints and you don't see me in any of those.

 

Thank you for your clear reply. I can only add as a bystander that your style does strike me as bullying in style as well, so indeed I see it as a fighting fire with fire in that sense. That's my opinion and the last thing I want to do is tell you how to run your life, so please do not take it as an attempt to push you in a given direction, but perhaps it can give you a moment's pause to think about it.

 

When two people have opposing opinions, they each think they are right. And because people tend to think they are right, it's amazing what sort of behaviour they will justify in the name of being right...in their opinion.

 

I do believe that the way you reply does not improve the situation that you deplore but rather creates additional negativity and makes their replies also more extreme as well as giving them a reason to post more negative posts. Remember, they also believe they are right and you won't be able to change their minds. Certainly not if you attack them for attacking someone else. In fact by using aggresive tactics it acknowledges that this is the right tone for the discussion.

 

In my experience, if you really are triggered by other people's comments (which is very much understandable), the best way to deal with them is to give them no reply at all and if they post often, put them on ignore. Why? Because if your goal is to fight negativity and you reply in such a forceful manner, you give them a reason to post another negative post and they then feel justified to be equally agressive in return. So in fact you are increasing their negative presence instead of decreasing it.

 

It all depends on what your goal is of course. What's more important to you? Letting them now how much disdain you have for them or actually changing the tone of the discussion? I can guarantee you that these two are mutually exclusive. If you just want to express your anger and disdain, I can tell you, you are pretty successful. If you want the negativity to stop or become less, I can tell you, you are doing the opposite of what it takes and are exacerbating the situation.

 

As the Shadows ask: What do you want?

Edited September 15, 2016 by Tsillah

[Transcendent]

I can see why some might view it as such.

 

Then why do it?

[_NovaBlast_]

Except, it itsn't.

 

No matter where you stand on what BW is doing, per a good proper running business you are required to have open communication. This isn't the government where they can be silent.

If they want their money to stay running, they have to be open in communication. They have to talk.

 

As for their "metrics" as they have mentioned. They fix their metrics to read how they want to read it. Which is a horribly sad thing to base a game that centers around content for all sorts of people. Because as it is now, they have alienated 3 or more different playing groups. They have even alienated the people who wanted story because the "story" they produced was not at all like previous story telling nor even flowed properly.

 

So yes, say what you want per the "doom & gloom" crowd, BW is killing themselves in the game with their non-existent communication & ignoring of problems.

 

I Completely disagree with all your points in your response and point to my op for the reason.

 

Your entitled to you opinion but we will have to agree to disagree on this subject

[CaptRogue]

I Completely disagree with all your points in your response and point to my op for the reason.

 

Your entitled to you opinion but we will have to agree to disagree on this subject

 

Except my opinion is still one based on fact & experience. So not quite sure how you could disagree with some of what I said, unless you do not deal with the real world at all & have never held a job.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Someone threatened to kidnap one of the devs' kids or something like that a while back. They're silent for the children.

[Exly]

If the community manger is breaking forum rules (Eric) does that mean Tait gets to issue a ban & take over?

 

 

If -eric did receive a forum ban and was not allowed to post for a week our to who would notice. I know that I wouldn't.

[dr_mike]

Someone threatened to kidnap one of the devs' kids or something like that a while back. They're silent for the children.

 

So they say.

 

If that was true, that player should have been arrested an example made of them.

 

Funny how it wasn't.

 

Funny also how when a BW employee causes trouble, all you get is silence from BW as well.

 

If the community manger is breaking forum rules (Eric) does that mean Tait gets to issue a ban & take over?

 

 

No, nothing is done. They refuse to discuss matters as well.

Edited September 15, 2016 by dr_mike

[_NovaBlast_]

Except my opinion is still one based on fact & experience. So not quite sure how you could disagree with some of what I said, unless you do not deal with the real world at all & have never held a job.

 

the fact that you think your statements contain fact is also an opinion....to which we will disagree.

[WheresMyWhisky]

So they say.

 

If that was true, that player should have been arrested an example made of them.

 

Funny how it wasn't.

 

Funny also how when a BW employee causes trouble, all you get is silence from BW as well.

 

 

 

No, nothing is done. They refuse to discuss matters as well.

 

The dev was tracked down in real life and they have been a lot less communicative since you can read the thread below. There are thinngs about it on reddit I wont link but it isn't here say it did happen

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8183242

Edited September 15, 2016 by WheresMyWhisky

[CaptRogue]

the fact that you think your statements contain fact is also an opinion....to which we will disagree.

 

lol Okay. You're already proving my points quite well. But lets see on this:

Name one public business, that relies on consumers to stay open, that can stay in operation when it does not communicate it's good(s) but still requires the consumers to pay it's fee's/products??

 

The fact that you're diverting statements, legitimate questions & any sort of thought process here only says to me & others, that you are like a few of the others here who want to cause problems but not seriously talk or discuss anything.

(You even posted your own thread & once people disagreed with you there, you started insulting their opinions. You can't do that on a public forum & expected to be taken as anything other than an internet bully or troll.)

[dr_mike]

The dev was tracked down in real life and they have been a lot less communicative since you can read the thread below. There are thinngs about it on reddit I wont link but it isn't here say it did happen

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8183242

 

I've read it. I'm also familiar with Eric's posts.

 

My point stands. Reread what I wrote and what you quoted. You missed the last half of it.

Edited September 15, 2016 by dr_mike

[Radzkie]

The dev was tracked down in real life and they have been a lot less communicative since you can read the thread below. There are thinngs about it on reddit I wont link but it isn't here say it did happen

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8183242

 

I still don't understand why other MMO's are capable of open communication and SWTOR is not. SWTOR cannot be the only MMO that has crazy people willing to do these sorts of things over a disagreement. What are other MMO community managers(or whatever they're called) doing that allows them to speak so openly...?

Edited September 15, 2016 by Radzkie

[cardmonkey]

Think its cause re or bioware are just that good where the crazies pop up people really need a life

[dr_mike]

I still don't understand why other MMO's are capable of open communication and SWTOR is not. SWTOR cannot be the only MMO that has crazy people willing to do these sorts of things over a disagreement. What are other MMO community managers doing that allows them to speak so openly...?

 

I work for a webhosting company and have for over 2 decades. We've had 4 instances of something along these lines. 3 were turned over to the police and dealt with. The other one is that idiot we deal with out of Waco, Texas.

 

We're lucky though. Since we openly deal with under ages, we have to document everything including parent's phone numbers. I haven't done it myself as I;m partially deaf but we've had to call a few parents over issues.

 

They get dealt with real quick.

[_NovaBlast_]

This simply cannot continue being used as an excuse for Bioware treating the people who provide the funds that pay their wages with complete and utter contempt.

 

All The Best

 

Ugh, statements like that are a prime example of why the community deserves to be kept at arm's length. Too many people here have a maturity problem, and all it takes is that one in a thousand to become a real problem.

 

100% QFT and when you call them on it they try to bait you a conversation to justify their over inflated sense of importance as a "customer" as well as an higher than average entitlement complex.

 

which is why i took a long break from coming here ...i can feel another one coming.

Edited September 16, 2016 by _NovaBlast_

[VirtualMorrigan]

So they say.

 

If that was true, that player should have been arrested an example made of them.

 

Funny how it wasn't.

 

 

I have my doubts about this incident. Also, anyone who ever worked in customer support will have a story or two to tell about upset customers behaving in unacceptable manners. What happens there is that, if the offense is bad enough, that customer is excluded from service. What never happens is that because of one such incident, communication stops.

 

But clearly Bioware is manned by special snowflakes.

[OneHit]

I don't doubt that its possible to track one of these devs down in real life. If they were really scared would they do these cantina tour events. Obviously its the Internet and most people are a lot tougher here then in real life. Its an easy place to make wild comments. I think if you work in this industry you probably have to have some thick skin. That doesn't justify someone making threats about your family especially your wife an kids. I know not many of us would take that too kindly.

That being said. An mmo is going to attract a large number of people. That's the point. On average you're going to come across some unstable people. I don't think its fair to punish the whole community based on the actions of one person

[DarthWoad]

Ugh, statements like that are a prime example of why the community deserves to be kept at arm's length. Too many people here have a maturity problem, and all it takes is that one in a thousand to become a real problem.

 

Well that's a very negative way of thinking isn't it? Do you really think the game is going to get better and better if they don't interact with their customers....you know... the ones who are paying their salaries?

 

It's going to get worse. I don't think you know very much about customer service, or how MMOs work in general.