HK-55 for non subscribers

[Ratajack]

1) Let me put things in big blue letters so YOU understand. QUALIFYING FOR A REWARD DOESN'T MEAN THE CONTENTS OF SAID REWARD IS ONLY OBTAINABLE BY SAID QUALIFICATION, BUT RATHER THAT THE SPECIFIC OFFER OF SAID CONTENTS IS ONLY OBTAINABLE BY SAID QUALIFICATIONS.

 

To satisfy my request, you must show that they have said that not only the reward (FREE CONTENT) is exclusive to subscriptions, but that the content itself is exclusive to subscriber rewards. Like I've said a thousand times, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you're not giving any good reason to believe you're right.

 

The terms and conditions clearly and explicitly state that:

 

 

*Terms and Conditions

 

* To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PST//7:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward. Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail or mission and are redeemable as of the launch of the monthly chapter(s). Players must have an active Subscription status to unlock 2 Days of Early Access for each Chapter.

*Players must have completed Chapters 1-9 to access their HK-55 Companion. After completing Chapter 9, players will receive an Alliance Alert that will take them on a mission to recruit HK-55.

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

* ACCEPTANCE OF END USER ACCESS AND LICENSE AGREEMENT ('EUALA'), PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION, AND ACCOUNT REGISTRATION REQUIRED TO PLAY. MUST BE 13+ TO REGISTER. ACCOUNT IS NON-TRANSFERABLE ONCE USED. PAID SUBSCRIPTION, VALID AND ACCEPTED PAYMENT METHOD OR PAID GAME TIME CARD (IF AVAILABLE) REQUIRED TO ACCESS SUBSCRIPTION GAMEPLAY. PAYMENT METHOD AGE RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY. SWTOR ONLINE SERVICE MAY BE DISCONTINUED. SEE EUALA FOR DETAILS. AGREEMENT TO SHARE ACCOUNT INFORMATION WITH LUCASFILM ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LTD. ('LUCASFILM') IS REQUIRED TO ACCESS GAMEPLAY. GAME INTENDED FOR PLAY ONLY WITHIN NORTH AMERICA, EUROPE AND CERTAIN OTHER TERRITORIES. USE OF CARTEL COINS SUBJECT TO DIGITAL SERVICES AGREEMENT. PRIVACY POLICY AND TERMS OF SERVICE AVAILABLE AT http://WWW.SWTOR.COM. ALL TERMS AND CONDITIONS TO PLAY THE GAME APPLY AT ALL TIMES. SUBSCRIPTIONS MAY BE CANCELLED AT ANY TIME. SEE http://WWW.SWTOR.COM FOR DETAILS.

 

As I said, CLEAR AND EXPLICIT conditions (rules) which MUST be met to receive the subscriber rewards

 

Notice that it does NOT say "until and/or unless we decide to sell it to the whiners for a pittance of what you will pay to subscribe for those 8 months."

 

No, it says in no uncertain terms " ** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016.

 

Notice that they state EXPLICITLY that an account MUST be continuously in an active subscriber status between January 11- August 1, 2016, and do not include anything remotely resembling anything like "unless we decide to cater to the whiners and cryers and sell it for a pittance of what those who legitimately earned it had to pay."

 

How can anyone who was not continuously subscribed from January 11-August 1, 2016 be qualified to receive that bonus chapter when the terms and conditions CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY say that ** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016.

 

How is that NOT exclusive, even if the word "exclusive" was not specifically used?

 

Notice that those terms and conditions do not say "qualified to receive for free", they clearly and explicitly state qualified to receive. To me, that means that NO ONE who was NOT subscribed on the appropriate date is qualified to receive the reward for that date, not just for free, but AT ALL. That also means that NO ONE who was NOT subscribed from January 11-August 1,2016 is qualified to receive the bonus chapter, not just for free, but AT ALL.

 

Now, you can try to justify, rationalize and pretend that BW was vague all you want, but the truth of their explicitness remains.

 

 

The word exclusive may not have been used, but they were VERY CLEAR AND EXPLICIT in their terms and conditions.

 

2) Can you link the source of the terms and conditions, or can you point me to where I can find them?

 

Google is your friend. But since you are obviously too averse to even the minimal effort required to use it, here is the link:

 

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/home

 

Scroll all the way down to the bottom for the terms and conditions.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Ratajack

[Transcendent]

How is that NOT exclusive, even if the word "exclusive" was not specifically used?

 

You're answering your own question now.

[BobTheTeepo]

The terms and conditions clearly and explicitly state that:

 

 

*Terms and Conditions

 

* To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PST//7:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward. Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail or mission and are redeemable as of the launch of the monthly chapter(s). Players must have an active Subscription status to unlock 2 Days of Early Access for each Chapter.

*Players must have completed Chapters 1-9 to access their HK-55 Companion. After completing Chapter 9, players will receive an Alliance Alert that will take them on a mission to recruit HK-55.

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

* ACCEPTANCE OF END USER ACCESS AND LICENSE AGREEMENT ('EUALA'), PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION, AND ACCOUNT REGISTRATION REQUIRED TO PLAY. MUST BE 13+ TO REGISTER. ACCOUNT IS NON-TRANSFERABLE ONCE USED. PAID SUBSCRIPTION, VALID AND ACCEPTED PAYMENT METHOD OR PAID GAME TIME CARD (IF AVAILABLE) REQUIRED TO ACCESS SUBSCRIPTION GAMEPLAY. PAYMENT METHOD AGE RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY. SWTOR ONLINE SERVICE MAY BE DISCONTINUED. SEE EUALA FOR DETAILS. AGREEMENT TO SHARE ACCOUNT INFORMATION WITH LUCASFILM ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LTD. ('LUCASFILM') IS REQUIRED TO ACCESS GAMEPLAY. GAME INTENDED FOR PLAY ONLY WITHIN NORTH AMERICA, EUROPE AND CERTAIN OTHER TERRITORIES. USE OF CARTEL COINS SUBJECT TO DIGITAL SERVICES AGREEMENT. PRIVACY POLICY AND TERMS OF SERVICE AVAILABLE AT http://WWW.SWTOR.COM. ALL TERMS AND CONDITIONS TO PLAY THE GAME APPLY AT ALL TIMES. SUBSCRIPTIONS MAY BE CANCELLED AT ANY TIME. SEE http://WWW.SWTOR.COM FOR DETAILS.

 

As I said, CLEAR AND EXPLICIT conditions (rules) which MUST be met to receive the subscriber rewards

 

Notice that it does NOT say "until and/or unless we decide to sell it to the whiners for a pittance of what you will pay to subscribe for those 8 months."

 

Yeah most terms and conditions don't say that, and that doesn't imply anything.

 

No, it says in no uncertain terms " ** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016.

 

And we already discussed this. To qualify for a Playstation 4 during a newsletter rewards program you may have to subscribe to a Sony Newsletter, doesn't mean you can't get a PS4 otherwise.

 

Notice that they state EXPLICITLY that an account MUST be continuously in an active subscriber status between January 11- August 1, 2016, and do not include anything remotely resembling anything like "unless we decide to cater to the whiners and cryers and sell it for a pittance of what those who legitimately earned it had to pay."

 

Like I've said and you don't seem to understand, them NOT saying otherwise, does not mean the opposite is true. In fact, you can generally assume in business speak, anything that isn't explicitly stated as true is not necessarily true. Unless they've actually explicitly said something in their terms and conditions, they're under no obligation to hold to your pre-conceived notions of how the program works.

 

How can anyone who was not continuously subscribed from January 11-August 1, 2016 be qualified to receive that bonus chapter when the terms and conditions CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY say that ** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016.

 

They aren't qualified to receive it (as in, get it for free, as part of the subscriber rewards plan). That doesn't mean they won't be able to purchase it later when this program ends or any time after.

 

How is that NOT exclusive, even if the word "exclusive" was not specifically used?

 

You answered your own question lol. This is the way businesses work, everything is worded properly to a T. If they don't say it's absolutely exclusive, you can THINK it is, but you don't KNOW it is. Don't you find it convenient at all, that the unambiguous exclusivity is not found ANYWHERE?

 

Regardless, like I've said, this may be Bioware just messing up and not being clear enough. But like I've said, any person who actually understands the English language COULD read what you've said and come out thinking it's at least *possible* that your assumptions that it's exclusive forevermore aren't NECESSARILY true. In case you haven't noticed, most people who pop in or create threads like this are literally asking if it's possible... Did you never stop and wonder if that's because Bioware didn't necessarily make it clear enough?

 

Notice that those terms and conditions do not say "qualified to receive for free",

 

They don't need to, it's directly implied linguistically. Subscribers receive this content for free if they meet the criteria. Therefore, when they say "receive", they are directly saying "receive this content for free".

 

they clearly and explicitly state qualified to receive. To me, that means that NO ONE who was NOT subscribed on the appropriate date is qualified to receive the reward for that date, not just for free, but AT ALL. That also means that NO ONE who was NOT subscribed from January 11-August 1,2016 is qualified to receive the bonus chapter, not just for free, but AT ALL.

 

Fair enough, that's your opinion, I respect it and probably I think you're right. BUT, I'm still going to have to highlight the key words here. You said "TO ME". That's precisely the point, it's just your opinion, your opinion is not found in the actual text from what I see. Your opinion certainly isn't disproven by the text, but the text doesn't ever seem to state for a fact that you're right.

 

Now, you can try to justify, rationalize and pretend that BW was vague all you want, but the truth of their explicitness remains.

 

Okay, I don't agree.

 

The word exclusive may not have been used, but they were VERY CLEAR AND EXPLICIT in their terms and conditions.

 

Funnily enough it wouldn't necessarily matter if the word exclusive were used. They'd have to say this content, specifically, is *permanently* exclusive to the subscription program, not just that the content is exclusive (as that exclusivity could be temporary).

[PorsaLindahl]

Imply is a word you all like to toss around a lot, in regards to the Terms and Conditions. "It doesn't imply this." Or "It doesn't imply that."

 

You're right. It doesn't imply a lot of things. It doesn't imply that you, while reading it, can comprehend the meaning of it.

 

What the Terms and Conditions do state is specifically written to avoid implying anything. It says specifically what steps are required to receive rewards. If you don't meet those specific requirements, then you don't qualify. There should be no debate over the matter.

 

Yoda said it best: "Do or do not." In this case: Sub or sub not.

[Transcendent]

There should be no debate over the matter.

 

You are here --------> STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion.

 

Of course it can and should be discussed and debated, why shouldn't it? Because you say so? Sure! Okay boss!

[lightSaberAddiCt]

You are here --------> STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion.

 

Of course it can and should be discussed and debated, why shouldn't it? Because you say so? Sure! Okay boss!

 

No Because BW has stated the rules. They decide the rules, they aren't really debatable. You either chose to abide by them, or not. But debating it does nothing. You can debate it all you want, in the end, BW has stated what needs to be done to qualify for it.

[Andryah]

No Because BW has stated the rules. They decide the rules, they aren't really debatable. You either chose to abide by them, or not. But debating it does nothing. You can debate it all you want, in the end, BW has stated what needs to be done to qualify for it.

 

Yep yep.

 

The internet has made some people feel like they have power over things they actually have no power over at all. This thread is a great example of the phenomena... people insisting they can debate and force changes to things they do not like.

 

Mostly humorous to watch, sometimes frustrating when we see a constant run of "amateur prosecuters" coming and going in threads like this to plead based on absurd assumptions.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Andryah

[LeeLoou]

How do you know if you qualified? There was a period of about 3 days where I had to cancel my sub because of banking issues but bought a game card to make sure I got things up and running as soon as I could. I have gotten my cartel coin allotment every month since aug 2015 but don't know if those 3 days voided me.

[denavin]

Forum moderators:

 

Kill this thread already its beating a dead horse that refuses to fall down.. Nothing here its a dead issue already....

[Tsetso]

Forum moderators:

 

Kill this thread already its beating a dead horse that refuses to fall down.. Nothing here its a dead issue already....

 

Don't. This is the most entertaining thread at the moment. If they kill it we have to resurect mcb's thread.

[Transcendent]

........debating it does nothing.....

 

Well it's entertaining at the very least. On the other side of things, at least BioWare gets to see other players viewpoints on certain aspects of the game. Look at it a slightly different way for one moment.

 

If the community hadn't objected to things like story content being released on the Cartel Market, would they have decided to continue down that path? It's only by players voicing their views and discussing that freely on the forums that helps give BioWare an indication of player feelings. Absolutely they will not take information from just one source (such as the forums), they'll take info from a variety of sources, including metrics to make a determination in the future.

 

So debating something, as long as it doesn't devolve into simple slanging matches (which seems to happen a lot lately) can be constructive.

[MACharlieV]

My 2 cents: speaking as someone whose pretty much been here since beginning (had quite a few lapses) but I am eligible for the chapter.

 

If Bioware decided to make it available via other means, I'd probably say that was really nice since they don't have to.

 

If they didn't and people complain, then I say tough luck.

[Sotof]

Honestly, my biggest problem with it being unavailable in the future is the fact it is story content. If it was just a mount or whatever, not a single person would care. But a core part of the game made unavailable forever because of some subscriber scheme? Seriously? Might as well bring out exclusive raids and warzones then.

[AgustinSarro]

Honestly, my biggest problem with it being unavailable in the future is the fact it is story content. If it was just a mount or whatever, not a single person would care. But a core part of the game made unavailable forever because of some subscriber scheme? Seriously? Might as well bring out exclusive raids and warzones then.

 

What most people fail to realize is the fact that its not a "core part", Its just extra. Think of it as a story from a comic book / videogame that happens between episodes from the original SW trilogy, but are not even mentioned in the movies.

The story of the chapter itself gives a finale to the Shroud quest series from 2.0, a series that is pure optional, hence if you havent done that, this bonus chapter doesnt make much sense.

[Sotof]

What most people fail to realize is the fact that its not a "core part", Its just extra. Think of it as a story from a comic book / videogame that happens between episodes from the original SW trilogy, but are not even mentioned in the movies.

The story of the chapter itself gives a finale to the Shroud quest series from 2.0, a series that is pure optional, hence if you havent done that, this bonus chapter doesnt make much sense.

It is a core part of the game in the same manner as an op, war zone or planet. As with everything in the game it is just "extra". Chapter 2 in the trooper story is just "extra", doesn't change that it is a core part of the game experience. Everything is optional in this game.

 

Point is that there is a big difference between making a silly item unavailable and making actual content unavailable.

[Nempo]

How do you know if you qualified? There was a period of about 3 days where I had to cancel my sub because of banking issues but bought a game card to make sure I got things up and running as soon as I could. I have gotten my cartel coin allotment every month since aug 2015 but don't know if those 3 days voided me.

 

If those 3 days were not one of the checkmark days, aka the days you would get stuff, then as far as they are concerned you never lost sub.

[LordArtemis]

As I have said in other threads pertaining to this topic, I think it is certainly possible this will, at some point, be available to all players, considering it is story content.

 

However, I don't expect that to be any time soon, and I personally feel that is how it should be. An exclusive reward is not an exclusive if everyone has access to it. It would be counterproductive for Bioware to offer an incentive to sub, only to turn around and give access to it to everyone almost immediately.

 

At some point this content will likely become less important to those that earned it, and at that point we may see it opened to everyone...as other exclusive story content has in the past.

 

For now it remains exclusive. It is my fault I missed out on the content. I'm ok with that.

[Noctivious]

Business practices like this is what turned me away from the game. Sometimes I return to see if they've come to their senses, perhaps at least making stuff like this available on the collectors edition vendor or something. But they don't, so I don't bother returning. It's sad really.

[ZionHalcyon]

Greetings All,

 

Given the number of reports we've received on this thread, here is a clarification of forum policies:

 

* Disagreement or debate within a thread is not considered off-topic.

 

* Continued disagreement within a discussion is not considered harassment.

 

As always, if you do receive any threatening, harassing, or otherwise rude PMs or see any posts within a thread, please report it. If you wish for someone to leave you alone on the forum, we suggest using the ignore feature.

 

Happy Posting,

CommunitySupport

 

Nice necro!

 

Quoting the above instead of your post because I think a ton of people could learn from that.

[InfernoSaber]

Have there been any news on making HK-55 available in cartel market for people who couldn't or weren't subscribed on January 11th 2016? Can someone ask Eric or Keith to make it happen?

[QuinlanSaathis]

Have there been any news on making HK-55 available in cartel market for people who couldn't or weren't subscribed on January 11th 2016? Can someone ask Eric or Keith to make it happen?

 

Absolutely NOT

[Khaleg]

Definately, but mainly because of their stupid idea how to handle such rewards ("be there at point x in history or during a certain time span" instead of "be sub for x months total" or something like that).

The problem is house made by Bioware, like so many are.

[Threjyan]

Absolutely NOT

 

why not?

 

i have the hk55 reward, and i think by now, everybody should be granted acess to it.

 

i only think that they should have it in the exact same conditions others have had.

[merovejec]

why not?

 

i have the hk55 reward, and i think by now, everybody should be granted acess to it.

 

i only think that they should have it in the exact same conditions others have had.

 

You know how people think about giving special rewards that were time-limited. People are happy they have something others cant get..

[casirabit]

why not?

 

i have the hk55 reward, and i think by now, everybody should be granted acess to it.

 

i only think that they should have it in the exact same conditions others have had.

 

I doubt they will due to the way they handled Nico and Shae. They called it a sub reward but forgot about those that already had both of them and therefore nothing was given to those. When saying a sub reward is where the mistake was made and not offering something else to those that had both of them. It was a big mess and so I doubt they would give HK55 like that.

 

I don't particularly care if they give out HK55 again but I will care if they give it as a sub reward and those that have it are left out again.