Stop the Imperial domination in PvP - The Harbinger

[TrixxieTriss]

I spoke too soon and jinxed myself. Now Reps have turned to crap. 😢 , but it doesn't help that some of the losing Imps started to resort to cheating.

I was having a great time yesterday / last night / very early morning. It was awesome, I had hardly lost any matches and I was on a 4 hour winning streak. Then I popped into a match and everyone was complaining they hadn't won any matches in hours. I get this sinking, sick feeling in my stomach and think "oh no". Next thing that winning streak turned into a losing streak.

 

The thing is the imps hadn't actually improved in skill and except for the few cheats that appeared, weren't actually that good and shouldn't have won most of those matches. We only lost because the reps seemed to have lost their ability to think and got drawn into the imp death match mode, which they really aren't that good at. We were winning most of those matches and were ahead till the teams feel apart, didn't listen or got fooled into playing like imps.

I was pretty annoyed to see the exact imp players I had personally been steam rolling earlier, resort to cheating or forming groups/Premades with cheaters. I'm good enough to still beat them in combat, but my under skilled teams were having some difficulties. If you can't win with out cheating, you need to L2P, not chest. You will never get any better, but those people you cheat against and ultimately grind against you, will get better. Eventually your cheats won't be enough. Exactly like when you are fighting me or other skilled players. You'll actually get worse if you rely on cheating and those people you cheat against will steam roll you. A cheater vs skill will always lose. I dare one of you cheats to prove me wrong.

Any way, back on topic. It seems Reps "can" only play at certain times, it's obvious this is when the players with brains are on.

 

To my rep teams, don't fall into the imp death match mode, you will lose. Imps are better at it than you because that is the only way they know to play. But if you get into death match type fights with them, you can do it at the nodes. Good players can death match and play objectives. Reps are good at ovjectives, imps are good at death matching. It's easier to learn to death match, than actually use your brains and out think the other teams. Once you can out think them to win, the death matching comes naturally by constant grinding at nodes. Don't stress, you will get better. Then when you can do both, you'll hardly ever lose to imp death squads.

I'll use an American sport anology to simplify this. It's Nerds (reps) vs Jocks (imps), the nerds are already smart, the jocks usually aren't (at least in then movies) and nerds can always bulk up and learn to play a sport, but jocks can't grow brains. Sorry imps, I'm not actually meaning you don't have brains, it's just a basic analysis of imp PVP attitude.

 

So Reps.

Objective play = win

Death matching like imps = loss

Learning to play objectives and fighting = unstoppable.

[Technohic]

how can you...

 

I mean...

 

hmm...

 

pubs often only have 10 (or fewer) players in reg 65 queue at the same time. imps have something like 30. if you have 4 or 5 bad players in pub queue, then those 4-5 players are always on your team. if you have 10-15 bad players out of the imp 30, then those bad players are not always on your team. do you see what the problem is yet? it's not just a solo ranked issue. it makes it pointless to queue on the weaker faction. even really good players cannot carry and get extremely frustrated by having 4-6 derps constantly on their team when it's not like that for the other team. and as a pub, unless you pull an arena, you're almost always fighting imps. whereas the imps don't always end up fighing on or with the scrub pubs b/c they have enough ppl in queue to get same faction matches going. why would anyone pug pub in that scenario?

 

edit: the numbers I gave you were examples. however, all 3 servers I'm on, the weaker faction runs into the same issue: you get stuck with the same players every pop on pub side, but there's a larger imp population, so if you have all derps one match, you aren't virtually guaranteed the same 5 derps for the next 60 minutes.

 

I keep hoping they finally get to cross faction so I can use my gunslinger over my sniper again. It really is what you talk about on Pub. You can even wait after getting out of a match with a bad team to try to get off their re-queuing schedule but it seems like you still will wind up with them.

[Soljin]

4/5 of times, Imperials win the warzone. Please for the love of god make it so the teams are always mixed in sides like in the Odessen warzone to stop them from winning almost every match due to uneven player skill.

 

Regards, a very salty Republic healer.

 

I like this idea because the factions are severely uneven in PvP on Harbinger. Of course if you're running in a group of 4 and/or Q-syncing then its much better but otherwise you are looking at a high loss ratio as a Pub. Downside is I don't like the two factions being all chummy TBH.

 

I have more Imperial characters and have always played Empire but I recently decided it was time to switch factions and try to help change the tide. My next move is to role up a Pub healer and start taking that beating....

 

Currently running a Shadow for objective guarding and thieving....problem with back capping is the Pub team usually cannot take their current objective when the enemy splits off to retake their lost node....Nor will they peel off to try and defend the stolen node....Just tunnel vision and kill feeding all game long.

 

That said I prefer the challenge of playing the underdog and I plan to keep at it....after all there is no real reward for PvP in this game once you are geared (in 1 day) so why not take on the challenge.

 

Its pretty awesome when you win on the Pub side in a pug....because you know you really worked for it.

 

All other things aside the obvious way to fix the faction imbalance is make all WZ's cross faction...otherwise the problem will persist. World PvP if they ever manage that would be where the real factional war would take place...Conquer world objectives type PvP.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Soljin

[foxmob]

I keep hoping they finally get to cross faction so I can use my gunslinger over my sniper again. It really is what you talk about on Pub. You can even wait after getting out of a match with a bad team to try to get off their re-queuing schedule but it seems like you still will wind up with them.

 

yes. it's a numbers game. and once the numbers game begins to impact gameplay, the numbers game gets worse b/c players flock to the larger faction.

 

I'm in a dead guild (<forty-six and two>), and the friends I transferred over with have all left the game. but when I transferred over, I could queue with any of my guildies in any comp and we'd do very well. or we wouldn't get completely stepped on. but trying to queue now w/o a full 4m of reliable teammates? ****. you just pray that fight or reactor happen to be in queue. and that's just frustrating too. cuz I don't want a carry. I just want to have something in between futility and carry. which is where pubs are most of the time. so yeah. x-faction plz. tnx.

Edited July 20, 2016 by foxmob

[wiseread]

On my server the pubs mostly move as a big group not because they want to form a gank squad, but because they know they can't 1v1 someone say if you're guarding a node in civil war:D Edited July 21, 2016 by wiseread

[DarkSaberMaster]

I spoke too soon and jinxed myself. Now Reps have turned to crap. 😢 , but it doesn't help that some of the losing Imps started to resort to cheating.

I was having a great time yesterday / last night / very early morning. It was awesome, I had hardly lost any matches and I was on a 4 hour winning streak. Then I popped into a match and everyone was complaining they hadn't won any matches in hours. I get this sinking, sick feeling in my stomach and think "oh no". Next thing that winning streak turned into a losing streak.

 

The thing is the imps hadn't actually improved in skill and except for the few cheats that appeared, weren't actually that good and shouldn't have won most of those matches. We only lost because the reps seemed to have lost their ability to think and got drawn into the imp death match mode, which they really aren't that good at. We were winning most of those matches and were ahead till the teams feel apart, didn't listen or got fooled into playing like imps.

I was pretty annoyed to see the exact imp players I had personally been steam rolling earlier, resort to cheating or forming groups/Premades with cheaters. I'm good enough to still beat them in combat, but my under skilled teams were having some difficulties. If you can't win with out cheating, you need to L2P, not chest. You will never get any better, but those people you cheat against and ultimately grind against you, will get better. Eventually your cheats won't be enough. Exactly like when you are fighting me or other skilled players. You'll actually get worse if you rely on cheating and those people you cheat against will steam roll you. A cheater vs skill will always lose. I dare one of you cheats to prove me wrong.

Any way, back on topic. It seems Reps "can" only play at certain times, it's obvious this is when the players with brains are on.

 

To my rep teams, don't fall into the imp death match mode, you will lose. Imps are better at it than you because that is the only way they know to play. But if you get into death match type fights with them, you can do it at the nodes. Good players can death match and play objectives. Reps are good at ovjectives, imps are good at death matching. It's easier to learn to death match, than actually use your brains and out think the other teams. Once you can out think them to win, the death matching comes naturally by constant grinding at nodes. Don't stress, you will get better. Then when you can do both, you'll hardly ever lose to imp death squads.

I'll use an American sport anology to simplify this. It's Nerds (reps) vs Jocks (imps), the nerds are already smart, the jocks usually aren't (at least in then movies) and nerds can always bulk up and learn to play a sport, but jocks can't grow brains. Sorry imps, I'm not actually meaning you don't have brains, it's just a basic analysis of imp PVP attitude.

 

So Reps.

Objective play = win

Death matching like imps = loss

Learning to play objectives and fighting = unstoppable.

 

How exactly were the Imps cheating?

[Ruhun]

How exactly were the Imps cheating?

 

A lot of players on Harb openly use speed hacks. The server is a cesspool.

[JargoFett]

A lot of players on Harb openly use speed hacks. The server is a cesspool.

 

I've been playing on the Harbinger in PVP consistently almost daily for 2 years now and during that time, I've only seen one person using a speed hack in those years so your statement about "a lot of people" using them seems like you either don't know how speed buffs work on characters or you just saw one person doing it and so you decided to say "a lot" and to use it as a way to bash The Harbinger server.. which seems to be all you do in "a lot" of your posts.

Edited July 21, 2016 by JargoFett

[Ruhun]

I've been playing on the Harbinger in PVP consistently almost daily for 2 years now and during that time, I've only seen one person using a speed hack in those years so your statement about "a lot of people" using them seems like you either don't know how speed buffs work on characters or you just saw one person doing it and so you decided to say "a lot" and to use it as a way to bash The Harbinger server.. which seems to be all you do in "a lot" of your posts.

 

I can tell when a player is using a buff, the hacks look entirely different.

I'm pretty vocal about my distaste for Harb, but that's only because I fell for the hype.

[-Bob-]

I've been on Harb for awhile and i play my imps 99% of the time because well, pubs skill level is sorely lacking during the times i play. I rarely, if ever, see anyone using a speed hack or any other sort of cheat for that matter. If it's happening, then it has to be during times i'm not logged in because i just don't see it.

[DarkSaberMaster]

I've been on Harb for awhile and i play my imps 99% of the time because well, pubs skill level is sorely lacking during the times i play. I rarely, if ever, see anyone using a speed hack or any other sort of cheat for that matter. If it's happening, then it has to be during times i'm not logged in because i just don't see it.

 

Same here. I do believe people do hack in cheat in the game. I personally haven't seen it. Or just don't know that I have seen it. I asked that person because she/he said that they started losing because the Imps started cheating. Which caused his/her groups to fall apart. Just sounds iffy to me and would like to know how this person knows cheating was going on and what examples did they see.

[Fiqh]

4/5 of times, Imperials win the warzone. Please for the love of god make it so the teams are always mixed in sides like in the Odessen warzone to stop them from winning almost every match due to uneven player skill.

 

Regards, a very salty Republic healer.

 

Easy solution. Do what I did. Give in to the dark side. Make an imp. Preferably FOTM. Join a guild. Que as a group. Now you get to stomp pubs too. If you can't beat em, join em so they can carry you.

[TrixxieTriss]

How exactly were the Imps cheating?

 

I'm not going to explain all of that again in another post when I've pasted extensive explanations in other threads.

 

Specifically this one where I've explained in a few posts what is happening and where I can, how it's done.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=886094

[TrixxieTriss]

I've been playing on the Harbinger in PVP consistently almost daily for 2 years now and during that time, I've only seen one person using a speed hack in those years so your statement about "a lot of people" using them seems like you either don't know how speed buffs work on characters or you just saw one person doing it and so you decided to say "a lot" and to use it as a way to bash The Harbinger server.. which seems to be all you do in "a lot" of your posts.

 

Lucky you if youve only seen 2. But I can tell you it is widely used these days, just not at maximum settings, so it is hard to recognise if you don't know all class abilities and buffs.

But please do not start that whole "hacks" aren't happening argument when a lot of people have evidence of it, have seen evidence posted of it (that has since been removed) and are seeing it daily.

It's not only happening on Harbinger, but on all servers. But harbinger has the most because harbinger has the highest PVP population. It's not harbinger bashing.

Edited July 22, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[DenariusJay]

You cant defend repubs because by and large they are very hit and miss. You can catch streaks where they win but for the most part on Harbinger, Imps totally and utterly destroy everything. Most matches on my Imp toons are just afk wins, cause Pubs quit or don't even bother. When I play on pub toons I just get drunk and fool around cuz its usally 2vs8 or something stupid like that.

 

 

CLiff notes: Imps rull, pubs drool.

[TrixxieTriss]

Same here. I do believe people do hack in cheat in the game. I personally haven't seen it. Or just don't know that I have seen it. I asked that person because she/he said that they started losing because the Imps started cheating. Which caused his/her groups to fall apart. Just sounds iffy to me and would like to know how this person knows cheating was going on and what examples did they see.

 

I can see how my post may have come across as someone blaming hacks for losing. I see it all the time when people complain of hackers when there aren't any. Most are confused with class ability and skill, but I am not. I can tell the difference between cheating and abilities/skill. I could go into heaps of technical details and explainations, but it's against the forum guidelines and the last thing we need are more people doing it, I've also played the game nearly ever day since launch, between 4-8 hours a day. Yes I'm a PVP addict, but Ive also got the experince to know the difference between skill/abilities and cheating.

Some of the cheats are very subtle, which makes them much harder to recognise, especially to less experienced or casual players who often get confused. The ones that stand out are from people who don't know what they are doing, what settings to use or are just people trolling. The people who know how to use them properly will fly under most people's radar and won't be recognised. This is why a lot of people say they've never seen them.

I've been accused of cheating myself so many times that it must be in the hundreds by now. People just don't know abilities 90% of the time. But there has been a resurgence of cheating since season 7 started. It's mainly dropped off in ranked because the good players can spot it straight away and call out the cheats. Which is why we saw such out rage from the ranked community in those first 4-5 weeks of season 7.

But what happened in ranked has filtered through to regs because of Bios attitude to not giving a rats behind if people cheat. I think just about everyone would agree that Bio doesn't do anything to cheaters or if they do its a slap on the wrist.

To make matters worse, one of the biggest cheats in this game posted detailed instructions in the forums on how to do it and posted heaps video links of them doing it. This was copied by lots of people.

Considering Bios attitude and the easy to access information, it's no wonder more people are doing it.

 

I'll just add, that my teams were already falling apart, that would have happened anyway. But the few imps who started to cheat because they kept losing, only speed up the process.

[Shubhabrata]

Here is a lowbie match I played yesterday where Reps really shined and won against a huge odd.

 

Keep working together and there can be more matches like this, even at endgame.

 

Enjoy

 

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My referral link - http://www.swtor.com/r/z82hGV

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[TrixxieTriss]

Here is a lowbie match I played yesterday where Reps really shined and won against a huge odd.

 

Keep working together and there can be more matches like this, even at endgame.

 

Enjoy

 

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My referral link - http://www.swtor.com/r/z82hGV

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Pretty good team work for lowbies. I couldn't fully see names and guilds because the quality wasn't good enough on the iPad, but were some of you premade?

[Shubhabrata]

Not in the traditional sense of premade. We met that day in last warzone and decided to stick together. No VC or such, though. Just some decent players hanging out

[Icykill_]

Not in the traditional sense of premade. We met that day in last warzone and decided to stick together. No VC or such, though. Just some decent players hanging out

 

That's what I call a casual random premade, with out chat, which are more common than guild Premades these days.

It's a good way to make friends with other pvpers and to learn off each other.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Well, anyway, I've given up discussing here. This will probably be my "last Hurra" in terms of discussing in PvP.

(By the way, the *original* German-language "Hurra" is an outcry of joy. Interesting how it got changed that way in U.S. language ...)

 

My point is, that leaving one faction which is not as good as the other makes the game become even more unfun for those who remain. It's like in war "I'm sorry, but I'm switching over to the better side, because they are winning more often". To the remaining people, this would feel like treason in RL. Here, it seems to be pretty normal.

 

People don't want to carry less skillful players. They even have special words for them : windowlickers, mouthbreathers, autists, or the infamous "bad".

 

In RL, I'm working in a firm where there are at least 2 Autists working as well, one of them in my own team.

In the firm I was working in RL before that it was even more heavy : It's a firm which consists to 1/3 of handicapped people, physically handicapped and mentally handicapped. Of course it wasn't one of those highly competitive firms out in the market. It was an highly socially oriented firm, in part even built to give those handicapped people a place they could work as well as they are able to !

 

From this experience in RL comes my point of view. Some of them might ACTUALLY are "mouth-breathers" and "window lickers" - because they are RL handicapped people !

 

And yet PvP players use worde like these as insults. And then laugh about that and say "but we weren't entirely serious ! We were only joking !" Well, then there is the tiny word of "entirely" ... It means that ... well ... in part, yes ... they were ...

 

I have been working with them long enough to know that they want THEIR place in the world as well. The less skillful ones. The mouthbreathers. The window lickers. The Autists.

 

At least the most toxic players in PvP and in PvE deny them their place in the world - in this game, that is. "Go play Hello Kitty !" they might say - as if "Hello Kitty" was just the RIGHT game for Stephen Hawking, the physician, who isn't able to move his body anymore. Highly intelligent ... I bet he'd be ablke to beat most of you in MENTAL games ... But in PvP ... Well, no.

 

You don't want to carry less skillful players. People often enough say so. A lot of people have a name, a special word for them : "Bads".

 

Well, let's imagine a charity soccer / basketball / baseball / whatever match between teams which consist to 50 % of top 5 players in the world - and 50 % of severely handicapped people. Not the like of Pistorius, but REALLY handicapped. NOT able to win any Paralympics medals !

These top 5 players of the world - how would they feel ? Would they think like "I don't want to carry them ?" Would they complain that they are in mixed teams with less skillful players ?

Of course they wouldnm't give their team members names like "mouthbreather" or "window licker" or simply "Autist".

Why ? because it would be a charity match. THEN, they would have to GO DOWN FROM their platinum level of playing to GIVE the other team members A CHANCE to play with them !

Of couse, it would be too easy, far too easy, if these top 5 world players would just play the whole charity match among themselves. They DO NOT NEED the "help" from the other, the handicapped team members. They just don't need them. They could pretty much form a "closed circle" and perform THE WHOLE MATCH among themselves !

But the world is watching. In this charity match, people would notice, people would see that the top 5 world players would not help their team mates. Everyone would notice that they don't help them, finding their place in the team - and, even more important - get their own events of satisfaction ! By scoring a goal, for example !

 

This is more or less the background against which I'm measing this "competitive scene" here. When I read "but I don't want to carry bads" I must think "but I did so in RL !" And I can't understand it why it is so ... "dangerous" ? for people to have less skillful people in their own team. And the more toxic players act as if the presence of not very skillful players is like a spreading illness and everybody needs to get away from that or might become as dumb as them themselves !

 

Everyone of my own generation says tat people have become more selfish, more aggressive these times. And I agree.

 

I blame Bioware, too. For not providing a proper kind of matchmaking for those less skillful players. A person just can develop only so much. Sir Stephen Hawking will never be a good PvP player.

 

But, people often use Bioware's fault as what I call an "shield argument". It's perfect to hide behind that - and meanwhile carry on with old behavious. "But we can't change the mistakes Bioware did !" might say the farmer.

 

Exploiting others rather than teaching them seems to be the preferred method.

Okay, there might people who "don't want to learn". Well, but what about the rest ?

 

And, why even being toxic in the first place if one knows that the own toxiticy will most likely destroy PvP in the long run ? Or are people only thinking quarterly these days ? "In the long frun" might even get dismissed, because people just can't think further than 1-3 years. That a forest warden has to think IN CENTURIES is something that has become even more alien these days. And that's why companies exploit the tropical forests : Because their own home forests are already depleted by their quartery way of thinking, I guess.

 

Leaving a less skilled faction for the better faction simply makes the whole game more unfun for those who remain in the less skillful faction.

 

And by saying "you're a fool if you don't switch factions, too", one forces people to adapt to / adopt the SAME play style as the one who says this - and forcing someone to do things the own way is rather selfish in my eyes, too.

 

"Adapt, or be damned" or something like that. Or, in other words : "Do what we all do, or drown."

This is a herd of selfishly thinking people. All want the same - getting away from the less skillful faction - and assume that this is the ONLY way. Those left won't be happy.

 

This is basically what I wanted to say. And I do know that you won't understand me. That'Äs why I wrote that this is probably my last discussion reply here.

 

Good, if tides turn, but I'm too much disappointed by now.

 

Mimimi ?

[Technohic]

Alrik; where you work, do those handicapped people try and want to succeed? Do they want to take advice you give and try to do better? I'm guessing that if they are seriously wanting to find their place in the world; the answer to that would be yes.

 

See; the last time I played my GS regularly; I was in a similar scenario over and over. It was always tougher as a pub, but I did it and had my shares of winning until it got worse. Server transfers had happened. Anyone I had ever played with regularly were scattered. I come and go in this game as I please so, I didn't keep track so I was alone. Queues were popping left and right in my new homes I was playing around with between the Shadowlands and the Harbinger; yet eventually; those sparse wins stopped. I kept trying harder and harder; even trying to give directions, which is not really in my character. The game was suddenly not becoming fun for me.

 

I can remember the exact moment I decided it was time to give it up. I was stuck with the same group over and over, even if I tried to sit out a few minutes; it was the same team. I started to notice that they could play their classes, but they had no interest in playing objectives. Some were under geared and I saw that and was never nasty about it; the most I would do is replace them from node guard when I saw them there. I became increasingly frustrated that I either guarded the node or else I'd go and help get a node captured while the other one falls. Then I would get over to another node captured, and we'd lose the one I just left.

 

The exact moment after yet another day of that was; I queued into a AHG with the same team I had been on. I'm sitting there frustrated and trying to think of a way to get a win. I look around and that team I have been on? Hopping around typing stupid crap and chat, having a good time. And you know what? That's fine. They can have fun doing that, but they can have fun like that without me being frustrated. The other side; seems to have more people with the same intentions as me. Then I fight against my own side enough to have good matches.

 

I'm sorry; but this is not a job and I don't get paid. This is my rec time, and while I still will try to be patient and nice to others; I'm not going to make it my duty to entertain others.

[Shubhabrata]

While it is only natural to want to win all the time, we do have to admit that face rolling one side again and again is a boring way to spend time. Don't we all say we want balanced games, all the time? Why restrict ourselves to balancing classes only? Why not try to balance the factions ourselves?

 

The devs can't balance the factions for us, it is the players who can. Let's pose this question to ourselves, wouldn't it be more fun to have a 6-5 huttball that lasts the full length and a last second goal instead of a 6-0 huttball that ends in two minutes? Isn't that getting more worth out of our buck?

 

Now the question is, how as a player we can do that. Simple answer, relog to the other side when our side is stomping the other faction regularly and take a few friends with us. The power is with us, pvp players, to make this game fun and challenging, even out the playing field. Even half a team worth of competent players can tip the scale of balance.

 

I played Guild Wars 2 briefly, and what struck me as remarkable there was people taking up the responsibility to lead other players through world quests. I think they were called commanders or something. As a new player, who did not have any idea about the nature of such quests, I would follow the commander to whatever end, and so would many others.

 

Perhaps we need more examples of such leadership from the republic veterans, and imperial defectors, if republic pvp is to shine again. Complaining that "reps suck" and switching to imp side isn't the solution to the problem and no one can help us achieve faction balance, if we all take the easier way out.

 

I know that this post will probably not make much difference to a lot of players/readers of forums and perhaps many will dismiss this idea lightly, but hopefully, it will change the minds of a few people. It may not be much, but at least it will be a step towards a healthier pvp future.

 

-----------------------------

aka Faith (mara/sent)

[Technohic]

I could play on my commando in stead of my merc but that might actually make pubs worse.

[Icykill_]

I could play on my commando in stead of my merc but that might actually make pubs worse.

 

No, stay on your merc so I have something easy to kil. lol