Cartel Pack Changes with the GEMINI Pack

[Nuffmeister]

Sure, except, it isn't true...

 

The Revenge Pack and the Gemini Pack have the same number of items, 4 per pack... 2 random drops, 1 gift, 1 scrap...

 

The Plunderer Pack and Visionary Pack are likewise 4 items, same item allotment.

 

What is sad is that people keep paying even when being lied right to their face...

 

From what I can gather they increased the price because they can and tried to obfuscate it in a meandering explanation that, to me, could be condensed to "We raised the price because we felt like it and if we give some ******** excuse you'll lap it up and keep buying them."

 

I see no incoming change that necessitates a price increase with this shipment compared to the last one. Same amount of items I can see but with a price hike. At least have the balls to just say you increased the price because you wanted to, not some waffle that deliberately tries to mislead your customers.

 

That's just my take on it and I very well may be misinterpreting what he has said and be completely wrong. /shrug

[Dottore]

Sure, except, it isn't true...

 

The Revenge Pack and the Gemini Pack have the same number of items, 4 per pack... 2 random drops, 1 gift, 1 scrap...

 

The Plunderer Pack and Visionary Pack are likewise 4 items, same item allotment.

 

What is sad is that people keep paying even when being lied right to their face...

 

Right, BioWare ist just a Liar!

 

4 Items in the old packs, and 4 Items in the new packs. Just checked it out a few minutes ago.

 

Shame on you BioWare!

[Mijamotto]

I don't understand why the packs and how they work couldn't stay as they were before KOTFE launch

[StupidWiz]

Yeah, I bought some GEMINI packs yesterday. I was wondering why they had different price than the revenge ones while having the same amount of items. I was thinking maybe these packs were new so maybe it'd eventually drop to revenge pack's in a couple of weeks.

[Alssaran]

4 Items in the old packs, and 4 Items in the new packs. Just checked it out a few minutes ago.

 

Am I the only one who's going to point out that the comparison between the packs is not talking about a change to the mechanics inbetween the last two packs, but about a change in mechanics from "KotFE launch packs" and "GEMINI packs"?

 

This post does not necessarily indicate that part of the change was not already present with the Revenge packs. It's more likely that the increase in items and the inclusion of new bronze items into the pack made them raise the price from 200 CC to 300 CC in order to compensate the slight increase in overall yield after the Revenge pack and the relative increase in development cost of new bronze items each month. Even though they might be minor and unimportant, they still need to be developed (designed, coded, and even implemented).

 

I don't really buy those packs all that much anymore, but I can accept the change for what it is.

[DarthDymond]

Sure, except, it isn't true...

 

The Revenge Pack and the Gemini Pack have the same number of items, 4 per pack... 2 random drops, 1 gift, 1 scrap...

 

The Plunderer Pack and Visionary Pack are likewise 4 items, same item allotment.

OK, then why start the price increase with the GEMINI PACK?? And why even bring up that there are 6 more packs in KOTFE HYPERCRATES when trying to justify an increase in cost versus the previous KOTFE packs?? He makes it seem like that is a benefit of the current GEMINI pack and why the price was increased.

So because they didn't hike the price back up with Force Alliance Pack (when they went from 1 item per Pack back to 2) that means... what? That they missed their chance?

 

They have always been playing around with both the prices and offerings of the Packs looking for a sweet spot - many times it's adjusting the price down, sometimes like with this Pack and in the middle of the Stronghold Shipment they adjust it back up:

A Hypercrate was over 7,300 in the original Cartel shipment for 24 Packs and no rep items, with the Contraband shipment they added a reputation item and lowered the price; Starfighter Packs added in GSF items to the drop mix, later shipments took them back out; with the Stronghold Packs they added in an additional drop (decorations were separate from the standard item drops) and then with the Shadow Packs they took it back out (decos became one of the possibilities for the item drops), they also lowered the price of Packs in one Strongold Pack and then raised it back up in the next just like happened here; they added in the bonus "Platinum Packs" for the Explorer Hypercrates, changed how they worked from one Pack to the next within that same shipment, then took them out entirely; somewhere along the line they changed the random crafting materials into the Jawa Junk drops; with the Alliance Packs they first took out reputation items and changed it to a single drop while lowering the price, then with added back in a second item drop per Pack, in the middle of the Shipment they took out all Bronze items and replaced them with chance cubes, now they've added back in Bronze items, kept chance cubes and are raising the price.

 

There's no "supply" side to deal with digital goods, so it's all about the "demand" and calculating out what gets the best return. The only 'right' price for these Packs is the one that gets them the best return, overall. So yeah, vote with your wallets - you have direct control over the "demand" side of the equation and that's the driving factor here.

Edited June 30, 2016 by DarthDymond

[DarthDymond]

From what I can gather they increased the price because they can and tried to obfuscate it in a meandering explanation that, to me, could be condensed to "We raised the price because we felt like it and if we give some ******** excuse you'll lap it up and keep buying them."

 

I see no incoming change that necessitates a price increase with this shipment compared to the last one. Same amount of items I can see but with a price hike. At least have the balls to just say you increased the price because you wanted to, not some waffle that deliberately tries to mislead your customers.

 

That's just my take on it and I very well may be misinterpreting what he has said and be completely wrong. /shrug

They dropped the price for the Underworld Alliance Packs, which only had one 'rare' item drop and then with the Force Alliance Pack they increased the drop back up to two 'rare' items - at that point they had a 'reason' to jack the price back up, but held off to see what the returns would be like if they left it at that price point, even with two drops.

 

They tried a few other things, like replacing Bronze items with Grand Chance Cubes and adding Platinum rarity items, to balance out the lower price point and still get the return they were looking for, but apparently have now come to the conclusion that it wasn't working at that price - so they are adjusting it back up to pre-Underworld Alliance Pack levels.

Edited June 30, 2016 by DarthDymond

[xordevoreaux]

When gasoline was $5 a gallon, the oil industry started tossing around a term called "demand destruction" when people found alternatives to commuting -- everything from grabbing that old 10-speed bike out of the garage to carpooling to telecommuting to selling their gas-guzzling SUVs.

 

"demand destruction" was basically a fancy way of saying that the oil industry priced itself out of its own market.

 

Listening to the people in my guild's voice chat on Tuesday -- which the entire evening's conversation was about the heroic payout nerf -- Bioware has reduced, all on its lonesome with no other dynamics at play, demand for its own cash product. I had one member say "look, I'm on a fixed income, no way will I buy buying those hypercrates at that price. Never again."

 

Another of BW's self-inflicted wounds.

[Glower]

 

Pack Pricing Changes

You will notice that with the GEMINI Pack, the price has moved back to 300 Cartel Coins. As with any price change we want you to understand why it changed. The short explanation is

 

 

Crappy digital items to add IRL value... Nah, it's all about money. Right?

Edited June 30, 2016 by Glower

[IanArgent]

If you're not getting value for your CC, don't buy the packs. Simple as that.

[IanArgent]

Crappy digital items to add IRL value... Nah, it's all about money. Right?

 

Most things are about money, in the end.

[Kirtastropohe]

I feel for eric and everyone working on the game, as in many cases I feel they are put in an unwinnable position of trying to follow the dictates of the bean counters while trying to give the players something when they don't have the staff or clout to do it. That being said, it doesn't insulate them or anyone from having to deal with the consequences of their decisions.

 

I find this sudden price increase very distasteful. Especially given how they changed the model for the packs and screwed us with the grand chance cubes in the first place. They are doing a very good job of confusing how things are done. A pack has items in it, those should be the items we get, period. The grand chance cubes was a giant money grab and incredibly greedy.

 

To now come back 6 months later or whatever it is and say they are increasing the price without giving any additional packs in a crate and justifying it by saying they changed things and had given us more when KOTFE came out, that is just crazy logic. It doesn't get to work that way. You had a product, you released it and the fact that you didn't raise the price then is your issue. Coming back now and raising the price without really giving us anything except a screw job of now ensuring more bronze level stuff is just being incredibly tone deaf and greedy.

 

I'm not anti-capitalist, and EA has a right to make money, but if CC transactions are what's really brining in the lion's share of the money, then it would seem logical to not continue to anger your customers and insult them with money grabs and coming off as wanting to bleed everyone dry.

[Alssaran]

To now come back 6 months later or whatever it is and say they are increasing the price without giving any additional packs in a crate and justifying it by saying they changed things and had given us more when KOTFE came out, that is just crazy logic.

 

Only that they are not saying that. They are explaining that the price of a hypercrate that people now perceive as "too high" was a lot higher back in the day, and that those earlier hypercrates contained less at a higher price. Even with a price increase up to 6,200, while subjectively too much for me, the hypercrate is still a way better deal than the first three shipments. The first shipment was nearly 7,000 CC for six packs less. This deal, while an increase from early KotFE levels, is still a way better deal than the early CM days and the run-up time to KotFE. That's what Eric is putting into perspective in his post.

 

I find this sudden price increase very distasteful. Especially given how they changed the model for the packs and screwed us with the grand chance cubes in the first place.

 

Subjectively, I don't like chance cubes occupying the normal item slots because I want new items in new packs. Objectively, I can't see the GCC as a ripoff - even though I don't like them. They are a way to introduce additional safe revenue into a hypercrate, bring old items back into circulation, and they are a direct extension of the BSG packs people saw as favourable.

 

The GCC itself are not a ripoff. I dislike them, but I made a good penny from buying and re-selling them. If they wouldn't occupy an item slot, and they would take their own "bonus roll" slot, then I would seriously consider them a good thing.

 

You had a product, you released it and the fact that you didn't raise the price then is your issue. Coming back now and raising the price without really giving us anything except a screw job of now ensuring more bronze level stuff is just being incredibly tone deaf and greedy.

 

Or they do what literally every other industry is doing and have variable prices as their product demands more investment and has a higher payout. The re-introduction of new bronze items and the increase back to pre-KotFE levels of item drops (two item slots) made them re-consider their pricing model. They simply adjusted the 200 CC model back to the level where it was before KotFE, and the hypercrates still remain a good deal due to having more packs in them than before KotFE dropped, but remaining at the same price / content relation.

 

And they gave you something. New bronze items, which also take time and investment to develop, and a whole new item ever since the Force Alliance pack. They took a good look at the data and found that raising the price back to pre-KotFE levels is entirely possible due to the packs containing the same amount of content.

 

I'm not anti-capitalist, and EA has a right to make money, but if CC transactions are what's really brining in the lion's share of the money, then it would seem logical to not continue to anger your customers and insult them with money grabs and coming off as wanting to bleed everyone dry.

 

They increased the content at least since the Revenge packs. They reintroduced bronze items, and those also take some time to develop. They raised the price, but the hypercrates are still not that much more a ripoff than they were at pre-KotFE levels, seeing they contain six packs more ever since KotFE, and they still don't outprice the pre-KotFE hypercrates.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Alssaran

[CaptRogue]

Honestly Eric.... You could sell each pack for a Dollar and still turn tons of profit if not more..... Your justifications are weak, your excuses are weak, and your backbone may as well be non-excistant.

How so many people are able ot put up with this complete and utter nonsense you mask as feedback is beyond me. As it is quite obviously and solely aimed at trying to convince any doubters to buy your Cartel Garbage after all.

You sir, are the only idiot right now. You do realize Eric has NOTHING to do with what gets put out. He is just the voice. Ever heard don't shoot the messenger? Yeah, that applies here. Get over yourself & quit attacking Eric, he didn't do anything but let everyone know. Which was fine.

 

Tell me people of BIOWARE Austin, or all people of BIOWARE even; Does making a contract with EA require you to turn in your Balls? Is there NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU with the spine to come out in the open and admit that ALL OF THIS HAS GONE FAR ENOUGH?

Aside from reporting your post, yes THIS HAS GONE FAR ENOUGH on your part. Grow up. There is nothing in game that warrants this much hate & insults from you. It's all your choice to buy the fluff in game. Just because it's not what you want, doesn't matter. You still chose to buy it. Grow up yourself & quit throwing petty high school insults at the BW Team. They may make a lot of mistakes but this one isn't imperative to the game. This one is all on the players. Want to fuss at someone, fuss at all the people who are buying the packs & supporting the "crap" you say it.

 

bated braith.

It's baited breath. Learn to spell if you're going to try & use it as mockery.

[IanArgent]

It's baited breath. Learn to spell if you're going to try & use it as mockery.

 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/bated-breath

 

Seriously. It's not what comes out of your mouth after a sushi dinner.

[Aulus_Claudius]

If you're not getting value for your CC, don't buy the packs. Simple as that.

 

Couldn't agree more. They removed all value from their packs by giving out their rarest contents like it's Christmas in this 'event.' Just don't buy them anymore; they're worthless and you'll be handed their contents giftwrapped in a year or two anyway.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Aulus_Claudius

[DashaAdair]

It's baited breath. Learn to spell if you're going to try & use it as mockery.

 

Bated is correct, short for abated.

 

It is usually good to understand the correction before making it.

 

Of course if your breath is really cheesy you could use it to catch mice...that would be baited :-)

[Tsillah]

Honestly Eric.... You could sell each pack for a Dollar and still turn tons of profit

 

Considering that 5500 CC costs 35 Euro here and that the previous hypercrate cost 5400 CC and contained 30 packs, they were selling packs for a 1.03 Euro. That's 3 cents over a buck.

 

The new pack costs 1.38 Euro each. I based this on buying 5500 + 1050 CC and calculating the value of 6300 CC for the hyper crate.

 

This means the price increase is about a third which is quite significant, but you need to use math a bit more because packs really actually only cost just over a buck each.

 

The price increase would be less if you could buy 6500 CC instead of 5500 CC for a fair price. So the price increase in the current packs exists because of 2 reasons:

 

1) The increase in cartel coin cost per hypercrate

2) The unavailability of a cartel coin purchase that just covers the cost of a hypercrate. You need to either buy 1050 CC extra at a much higher cost per CC or overspend by a lot by getting the 14500 CC option in game.

 

I think point 2 is the most unfair in the whole point because it's a hidden cost price increase.

[NermalDetonator]

People were complaining because a hypercrate could very well yield more old items than new with way too many chance cubes, resulting in greatly varying crate values.

They were also complaining because the 'silver' items were on the level of previous bronze items quality/rarity/design-wise, but cost more to unlock in collections because of their rarity rating.

 

And those people were morons. Now your cubes are basically replaced with a 5k item, for a net loss of about 3-400k a pack. Bronze items are essentially worthless from a credit standpoint (silver too for that matter). The cubes were where the bulk of a hyper rates value was. You could sell the cubes and easily buy whatever gold item you were chasing. So now we get 6 or so more filler bronze items, the value of packs plummets AND BW raises prices.

 

The new packs have a whopping 5 bronze items that you are going to be sick of because these 5 items are going to comprise about 50% of all pack contents. 2 chairs, a pet, one armor and one mount. None of which will be worth jack squat by the end of the week. Enjoy drowning in the glut of your "new" items people who whined about the cubes...

 

Unless you had maxed your entire collection, you had a much better chance of getting something "new" (as in you didnt own) with chance cubes replacing bronze.

Edited June 30, 2016 by NermalDetonator

[Khevar]

Bated is correct, short for abated.

Ha! Muphry's Law in action!

 

I wonder if CaptRogue will return to this thread? Or if the shame and embarrassment will keep him/her away ...

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Ha! Muphry's Law in action!

 

I wonder if CaptRogue will return to this thread? Or if the shame and embarrassment will keep him/her away ...

 

Do you mean Murphy's Law? Couldnt resist man, since you were calling out someone, that got called out for vocabulary lol

[Khevar]

Do you mean Murphy's Law?

Nope.

 

Muphry's law is a thing.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Khevar

[DarthDymond]

Nope.

 

Muphry's law is a thing.

That... is kind of awesome.

[josephxp]

I feel if the packs had a layout like this:

 

1 Pack item + 1 Grand Chance Cube + 1 Pack Item or Grand Chance Cube+ companion gift+ jawa scrap (Seriously why did you make them drop scrap??? went from 15 green to 14, 10 blue to 8, 3 purple to 2)

 

The price increase would be acceptable because we are getting 1 more item (GEMINI packs drop the same 4 items as a revenge pack drops 4 items, and GEMINI drops less scrap, your paying more for much less)

 

So ya add another item like the layout i did above and have the jawa scrap drop its 15/10/3 like it did and people will be more likely to buy the pack. Simple fix everyone is happy about the item drop to CC ratio.

 

If not your going to see a decline in CC sales going to buy hypercrates which would make you make less cash because less people will buy them at a higher price with 0 improvement, the new packs gave less then the previous on scrap alone so... ya uncalled for.

[Valethar]

And yet the packs are still bloated with companion gifts and jawa trash that is essentially useless.

 

Not what we'd call 'adding value' to the packs.