Marr and Satele

[Aeneas_Falco]

I hope the OP is right and it was a Valkorian mind trick, because the whole 'the Force is gray, there is no light or dark side' nonsense is both objectively terrible and at odds with the film series SWTOR is based on.

 

Sadly I think it probably was actually Satele and Darth Marr, because Revan's Mary Sueness was also wrapped around him supposedly finding a balance between light and dark. (even though he didn't and SWTOR Revan was mainly an evil twit)

Edited April 10, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[SerraShar]

Yeah. Weird. Suspicious, even.

 

Kinda funny how you can point out "I don't know what's worse: that you [Marr] went soft or that Satele fell to the dark side." And Satele shrugs it off like it's nothing, rather than trying to claim that it's "not really" the dark side. I wonder what that could possibly mean, she said sardonically.

 

 

Make you think if that was really Satele ?

 

Marr felt real enough . But...if that is the real Satele , then damn......

 

She took a downfall pretty hard .

 

But this shouldn't be a surprise . If we look back , the story so far is going passive-agressive on us

 

especially with Valk going nutty . At one point he is all fatherly ''You are the best part of me that I want to keep''

 

and here he goes all Psycho ''Urgh why did I ever think you could rule anything ! You are a dissapointement! (spank spank spank) .

 

so goddamn frustrating !!!

 

[SerraShar]

I hope the OP is right and it was a Valkorian mind trick, because the whole 'the Force is gray, there is no light or dark side' nonsense is both objectively terrible and at odds with the film series SWTOR is based on.

 

Sadly I think it probably was actually Satele and Darth Marr, because Revan's Mary Sueness was also wrapped around him supposedly finding a balance between light and dark. (even though he didn't and SWTOR Revan was mainly an evil twit)

 

I doubt the games want to follow the movies . And hopefully they won't . Just like you won't see any games charachter mentioned in the movies .

[Aeneas_Falco]

I doubt the games want to follow the movies . And hopefully they won't . Just like you won't see any games charachter mentioned in the movies .

 

There are certain things where the game should follow the movies, considering it is basically a work of fanfiction based on the films. Of course SWTOR should be an original story with original characters, but the writers could have accomplished that without introducing a major deviation of how the Force is described in the films.

 

The Force not having a divide between light and dark, with morally gray force users being on the 'true' path while Jedi and Sith are both equally wrong, is just not Star Wars. It's Galen Marek levels of bad. Good thing this entire story was rendered officially non-canon by Disney.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[YaanaOhtar]

I think we dont have to worry about that. Right now, it is clear that there is Dark side and Light side in KOTFE, Senya and the older twin brother are light side, dark side is Arcaan and Vaylin. They only said the belief of the force being ally, servant or payments are wrong. Marr also said he were wrong to deny the Jedi teaching. If they are real - Marr and Satelle -, then combining their teaching may mean that we combine their experience of how should we fight against Zakuul - not their philosophy of Sith and Jedi -.

[PadsterPwns]

There are certain things where the game should follow the movies, considering they're basically a work of fanfiction based on the films. Of course SWTOR should be an original story with original characters,, but the writers could have accomplished that without introducing a major deviation of how the Force is described in the films.

 

The Force not having a divide between light and dark, with morally gray force users being on the 'true' path while Jedi and Sith are both equally wrong, is just not Star Wars. It's Galen Marek levels of bad. Good thing this entire story was rendered officially non-canon by Disney.

I was going to post but you just summed up my thoughts exactly, thanks.

[Euphrosyne]

Make you think if that was really Satele ?

 

Marr felt real enough . But...if that is the real Satele , then damn......

 

She took a downfall pretty hard .

 

But this shouldn't be a surprise . If we look back , the story so far is going passive-agressive on us

 

especially with Valk going nutty . At one point he is all fatherly ''You are the best part of me that I want to keep''

 

and here he goes all Psycho ''Urgh why did I ever think you could rule anything ! You are a dissapointement! (spank spank spank) .

 

so gosh darn frustrating !!!

 

I'm not sure how much more explicit I can get about these spoilers without dropping a really huge spoiler on you, so: keep thinking about those questions. They are important.

[Euphrosyne]

There are certain things where the game should follow the movies, considering it is basically a work of fanfiction based on the films. Of course SWTOR should be an original story with original characters, but the writers could have accomplished that without introducing a major deviation of how the Force is described in the films.

 

The Force not having a divide between light and dark, with morally gray force users being on the 'true' path while Jedi and Sith are both equally wrong, is just not Star Wars. It's Galen Marek levels of bad. Good thing this entire story was rendered officially non-canon by Disney.

 

What makes you think that the opinions espoused by the characters in Chapter XII are correct?

[Slowpokeking]

The twin brother were different which make me believe Valkorion did not teach either philosophy here. Senya were a head Knight and she is completely calm. Sith teaching using emotion , control the Force as you said to break free, Arcaan were not using emotion but emotion drives him. Jedi teaching absent emotion be one with the Force, Senya and the twin brother were not absent emotion but focus on serving Valkorion

 

We don't know much about Thexan, he might just be nicer Sith like Lana or Marr. Remember he was in the raid against the Republic/Empre as well.

[MasterFrostZero]

Satele thinking about killing the Outlander made a lot of sense to me, especially the Knight. All three of them know what Vitiate was capable of, and that killing his host has usually put a stop to his plans. In this case it wouldn't have helped as Valkorion had just left, but she might not have realized that at first.

[Slowpokeking]

Satele thinking about killing the Outlander made a lot of sense to me, especially the Knight. All three of them know what Vitiate was capable of, and that killing his host has usually put a stop to his plans. In this case it wouldn't have helped as Valkorion had just left, but she might not have realized that at first.

 

Shouldn't she try to seal Valkorion off with Wall of Light like Nomi Sunrider and other Jedi did to Exar Kun?

[SerraShar]

Shouldn't she try to seal Valkorion off with Wall of Light like Nomi Sunrider and other Jedi did to Exar Kun?

 

do they even know how to do that ?

[starwarsfansix]

Shouldn't she try to seal Valkorion off with Wall of Light like Nomi Sunrider and other Jedi did to Exar Kun?

 

Keyword: other jedi. It took the entire Jedi order to seal Exar Kun on Yavin 4. And I bet Valkorion is more powerful that Kun.

[DeltaBos]

The Force not having a divide between light and dark, with morally gray force users being on the 'true' path while Jedi and Sith are both equally wrong, is just not Star Wars. It's Galen Marek levels of bad. Good thing this entire story was rendered officially non-canon by Disney.

 

That level of archaic thinking and logic about the force is exactly why the Jedi and Sith are constantly doomed. There's a reason force users like Galen Marek and Revan are as powerful as they are, they don't allow the limitations of viewing the force a as moody cosmic entity to hold them back. Do some homework on the unifying force. Also, I don't get what you mean by "Galen Marek levels of bad." The story was written 100x better than the stupid knock off movies we got.

[PadsterPwns]

That level of archaic thinking and logic about the force is exactly why the Jedi and Sith are constantly doomed.

Jedi aren't exactly constantly doomed, in fact they have a great track record of avoiding doom most of the time, the biggest threat they had took 1000 years to plan and carry out. Besides, the Jedi and Sith fight because of their ideologies complete differences, the Jedi use the Force to protect and help the populace of the Galaxy whereas the Sith use the Force to subjugate and claim the Galaxy. It's their ideologies that cause the conflict, their alignments are the bases for them. The last part is exactly why walking both paths is basically impossible as how can you stay balanced when your constantly being tempted to subjugate other people whilst also wanting to help them? The answer is that you can't, if you try it you'll eventually fall or go insane.

There's a reason force users like Galen Marek and Revan are as powerful as they are, they don't allow the limitations of viewing the force a as moody cosmic entity to hold them back.

And yet there are plenty of Force users near or above their level of power who only follow one side, prime examples being Yoda, Sidious, EU Luke, Darth Caedus etc.. I also would like to draw attention to the fact that Revan was pretty much insane by the Foundry and SOR, his torment and obsession with vengeance literally splitting him apart. As for Marek he was pretty much redeemed by the end of TFU, he had decided to spare both Sidious and Vader despite the fact that his earlier goal was to become a Sith. I wouldn't class Marek as a Dark Side user what so ever at the end of TFU, if anything he became a Light Side user. Could you provide any examples of Force users that use both sides and don't fall, get redeemed or go insane?

[adormitul]

When speaking about grey force users we mean that they use both sides of the force dark and light. Like Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr yes its confirmed he also used both sides of the force. Edited April 11, 2016 by adormitul

[YaanaOhtar]

That level of archaic thinking and logic about the force is exactly why the Jedi and Sith are constantly doomed. There's a reason force users like Galen Marek and Revan are as powerful as they are, they don't allow the limitations of viewing the force a as moody cosmic entity to hold them back. Do some homework on the unifying force. Also, I don't get what you mean by "Galen Marek levels of bad." The story was written 100x better than the stupid knock off movies we got.

 

Jedi, true Jedi have never doomed themselves, until some stupid knight or padawan who think themselves above the rule like Revan then everything get destroyed.

[PadsterPwns]

When speaking about grey force users we mean that they use both sides of the force dark and light. Like Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr yes its confirmed he also used both sides of the force.

I don't know that much about Katarn or Korr but AFAIK didn't both of them only use Dark Side abilities rarely?

[adormitul]

I don't know that much about Katarn or Korr but AFAIK didn't both of them only use Dark Side abilities rarely?

 

No quite often actually sure Jaden suffered from guilt in using his dark side powers but he still freaking used them and accepted that he used them both and had no problem anymore.

[starwarsfansix]

No quite often actually sure Jaden suffered from guilt in using his dark side powers but he still freaking used them and accepted that he used them both and had no problem anymore.

 

Both him and Katarn follow the ideologies of the Jedi order though.

[PadsterPwns]

No quite often actually sure Jaden suffered from guilt in using his dark side powers but he still freaking used them and accepted that he used them both and had no problem anymore.

Going by what starwarsfansix said, I'd guess that managing to use both the Light and Dark depends on character and ideology.

Both him and Katarn follow the ideologies of the Jedi order though.

Thanks for the info, both of you, I'm not too familiar on Katarn and Korr tbh.

 

I think it goes something like: using the Dark and Light is risky but so long as they're cautious and aren't tempted by negative emotions/power they can stick to their ideology. (This is based on all of the examples so far)

Do you guys think that's accurate?

[starwarsfansix]

Well, Katarn is (well, was, since the EU is gone) the most pragmatic jedi I can think of. I believe one of his lines during the training course of Jaden Korr and Rosh Penin was "The Force is not inherently good or evil, it's how you use it that determines it's nature".

 

P.S. I strongly suggest you play the Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast games. They're old, but have the best lightsaber gameplay to date in my opinion.

[PadsterPwns]

Well, Katarn is (well, was, since the EU is gone) the most pragmatic jedi I can think of. I believe one of his lines during the training course of Jaden Korr and Rosh Penin was "The Force is not inherently good or evil, it's how you use it that determines it's nature".

 

P.S. I strongly suggest you play the Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast games. They're old, but have the best lightsaber gameplay to date in my opinion.

I don't really like that view of the Force tbh, I get that it's supposed to be more like real life morals applied to the Force but... I feel like the person who wrote that bit forgot that the Dark Side literally tempts and corrupts people.

 

I think I actually have Jedi Academy, Plague Inc has been eating up my time.

[adormitul]

Both him and Katarn follow the ideologies of the Jedi order though.

 

Katarn maybe sorta depends lets say the ideologies of the jedi order he was part of where less restrictive then what we know way less restrictive.

Jaden well he strangled somebody to death once that does not sound quite jedi like and not with the force with his bare hands. Jedi try no to kill and incapacitate I am pretty sure that was not in his mind.

[Audoucet]

I don't really like that view of the Force tbh, I get that it's supposed to be more like real life morals applied to the Force but... I feel like the person who wrote that bit forgot that the Dark Side literally tempts and corrupts people.

 

A glimmer of hope.

 

You are right, But you will always find people telling you otherwise because they WANT to "be dark AND nice". Don't listen to them. Hell, don't even listen to me, just listen to the overwhelmingly obvious proofs in the movies and TV shows.

 

They will always try to exploit one or two examples, 90% of the time not even canonical, but don't lose sight of the overwhelming number of counterexamples.

 

And don't bother with Katarn, it's like Revan, it was a player character in a RPG. And Jacen Solo's canonical version is actually Kailo Ren.

 

What is using the dark side like ? It's mostly like using cocaine morphin and methamphetamine to fight the bad guys. Some won't IMMEDIATELY go batcrap crazy, Kailo Ren is a good example, but most of the time they'll just go full Anakin with red eyes in 30 minutes.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Audoucet