Marr and Satele

[Slowpokeking]

Disagree, while the Eternal Fleet was the biggest instrument in Zakuul's dominance of the galaxy, I don't believe we have seen anyone even come close to matching Vaylin, Valkarion, or Arcann. They seem almost as demi gods before the current cast of Jedi and Sith in the galaxy. I can understand the sheer power of the Zakuulian empire, both in military might, and in the Force, driving someone to the breaking point, it's happened before, just look to Darth Krayt for an example.

 

The Dread Masters and Revan, Exar Kun, Darth Nihilus and Exiled, I don't see how they are weaker.

 

Also, Vitiate is a Sith, his power came from Sith Ritual and the study of the Dark Side.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[LordGarmaZabi]

The Dread Masters and Revan, Exar Kun, Darth Nihilus and Exiled, I don't see how they are weaker.

 

Also, Vitiate is a Sith, his power came from Sith Ritual and the study of the Dark Side.

 

I said the current Sith and Jedi in the Galaxy, everyone you listed in the first sentence is dead. but i'll humor you anyways.

 

Valkarion is no longer a Sith, and no longer draws exclusively from the Dark Side, and he states himself to be stronger for it.

 

I have no idea why you bring up Revan, his strength comes from balancing Light and Darkness, and if anything, he reinforces the idea that transcending Jedi, and Sith is the way to power.

 

Darth Nihilus and the Exile were only powerful due to becoming wounds in the force, with one becoming a husk who only knew hunger, and the other seeming to have lost any extraordinary ability upon losing this trait.

 

The Dread Masters had to pool the power of six ancient Sith Lords together to reach extraordinary heights, and even then, when they weren't on Oricon, they could be defeated by Jeric Kaeden of all people.

 

I don't know enough about Exar Kun to comment.

[adormitul]

Disagree, while the Eternal Fleet was the biggest instrument in Zakuul's dominance of the galaxy, I don't believe we have seen anyone even come close to matching Vaylin, Valkarion, or Arcann. They seem almost as demi gods before the current cast of Jedi and Sith in the galaxy. I can understand the sheer power of the Zakuulian empire, both in military might, and in the Force, driving someone to the breaking point, it's happened before, just look to Darth Krayt for an example.

 

Senya.

[LordGarmaZabi]

Senya.

 

Senya has stated that even as children, her offspring had surpassed her.

[Slowpokeking]

I said the current Sith and Jedi in the Galaxy, everyone you listed in the first sentence is dead. but i'll humor you anyways.

 

Valkarion is no longer a Sith, and no longer draws exclusively from the Dark Side, and he states himself to be stronger for it.

 

I have no idea why you bring up Revan, his strength comes from balancing Light and Darkness, and if anything, he reinforces the idea that transcending Jedi, and Sith is the way to power.

 

Darth Nihilus and the Exile were only powerful due to becoming wounds in the force, with one becoming a husk who only knew hunger, and the other seeming to have lost any extraordinary ability upon losing this trait.

 

The Dread Masters had to pool the power of six ancient Sith Lords together to reach extraordinary heights, and even then, when they weren't on Oricon, they could be defeated by Jeric Kaeden of all people.

 

I don't know enough about Exar Kun to comment.

How is Exar Kun dead? He was only sealed of with the wall of light on Yavin.

 

Most of Vitiate power came from his Sith study, those planet eating rituals are ancient Sith ritual, Exar Kun had used it as well.

 

Revan is powerful enough when he is only using one side.

 

Nihilus and the Exile's power came from the dark/light side. they are Sith/Jedi.

 

Arcann could be defeated as well on Korriban, the Dread Masters could destroy entire fleet's will.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

Senya has stated that even as children, her offspring had surpassed her.

 

No,she defeated Vaylin in chapter 8.

[Slowpokeking]

If you did the Dashade quest, he will tell you that Exar Kun was using the same ritual.

 

Even in the TotJ, you don't see Exar Kun actually dies, he just used the ritual to make himself a pure spirit.

[adormitul]

Senya has stated that even as children, her offspring had surpassed her.

 

yeah then why did she defeated one of offsprings. Her words do not match what we saw.

[LordGarmaZabi]

How is Exar Kun dead? He was only sealed of with the wall of light on Yavin.

 

Most of Vitiate power came from his Sith study, those planet eating rituals are ancient Sith ritual, Exar Kun had used it as well.

 

Revan is powerful enough when he is only using one side.

 

Nihilus and the Exile's power came from the dark/light side. they are Sith/Jedi.

 

Arcann could be defeated as well on Korriban, the Dread Masters could destroy entire fleet's will.

 

Valkarion states that he became as powerful as he is by abandoning the Sith teachings, and embracing a life he'd never be able to as a Sith, you disagreeing isn't really relevant.

 

Revan was powerful enough to what ? Defeat the Mandalorians he outnumbered by a huge margin (I believe Canderous states 30 to 1, but it's been a while) ? Take over half the Galaxy because he found a magical ancient alien device that the known Galaxy couldn't hope to match (hey, that sounds familiar.) ? To beat his own apprentice ? Not really all that impressive.

 

Nihilus' ability to consume worlds came from him being a wound in the force, Kreia directly states this. Likewise, the Exile's ability to resist this came from her being a wound in the force. But since Valkarion could do everything Nihilus could do anyways, without being a wound in the Force, and losing any semblence of Humanity, I have no idea why you think he's a compelling example.

 

The Dread Masters are six different people who have to combine their power to achieve that effect, and, again, Jaeric being able to defeat them when they weren't on Oricon speaks very negatively to their ability in combat. Additionally, you trying to prove your point by bringing up scenerios like fighting Arcann on Korriban where we'd have outside help (This isn't even mentioning how Arcann already ROLFstomped Korriban), or having the Dread Master go six on one with him speaks to how powerful the guy is.

[Slowpokeking]

Valkarion states that he became as powerful as he is by abandoning the Sith teachings, and embracing a life he'd never be able to as a Sith, you disagreeing isn't really relevant.

 

Revan was powerful enough to what ? Defeat the Mandalorians he outnumbered by a huge margin (I believe Canderous states 30 to 1, but it's been a while) ? Take over half the Galaxy because he found a magical ancient alien device that the known Galaxy couldn't hope to match (hey, that sounds familiar.) ? To beat his own apprentice ? Not really all that impressive.

 

Nihilus' ability to consume worlds came from him being a wound in the force, Kreia directly states this. Likewise, the Exile's ability to resist this came from her being a wound in the force. But since Valkarion could do everything Nihilus could do anyways, without being a wound in the Force, and losing any semblence of Humanity, I have no idea why you think he's a compelling example.

 

The Dread Masters are six different people who have to combine their power to achieve that effect, and, again, Jaeric being able to defeat them when they weren't on Oricon speaks very negatively to their ability in combat. Additionally, you trying to prove your point by bringing up scenerios like fighting Arcann on Korriban where we'd have outside help (This isn't even mentioning how Arcann already ROLFstomped Korriban), or having the Dread Master go six on one with him speaks to how powerful the guy is.

 

But his power, including his immorality came from the Sith ritual, he uses dark side lightning, which side of his power came from the light? We fought him in this chapter and all of his skills are dark side.

 

He was able to stand against the Empeor and affect his will for 300 years.

 

It's still dark side force, Valkarion's power is dark side as well. His planet eating ritual is pure dark side.

 

Kothe/Lana was able to defeat Arcann as well, without a elite squad's help. Arcann was stomping Korriban by himself? Or with legions of Zakuul knights and fleet?

[Slowpokeking]

What part of Valkarion's power wasn't Sith technique?

 

The immortal spirit? It was ancient Sith ritual.

Essence Transfer? Sith technique.

Force Lightning? Typical Sith skill, he used it a lot as Vitiate the SIth Emperor.

[YaanaOhtar]

The Zakuul are stubborn, I don't see how they are superior. Their stubbornness is their weakness as well. You don't need to break him, just defeat him.

 

Well it does make them harder to break compare to Jedi and Sith since they would not doubt. During a fight between Force users if one doubts their purpose, their powers they will be thrown off their balance. The Knight were completely loyal to the emperor they will use all their abilities for him.

[starwarsfansix]

Btw in KotOR 2 every single jedi was hiding, and only the guy on Onderon was doing something that could be considered helping. Satele is doing pretty much the same thing.

 

P.S. Idk why you idolize Nihilius so much, the guy was a slave to his own power. When you think about it, Vitiate is the same as him, at least prior to KotFE (although I still believe he is after total galactic domination).

[Canareth]

yeah then why did she defeated one of offsprings. Her words do not match what we saw.

 

Senya is a saber expert, having been a honcho in Valkorion's guard since, well, before Vaylin was born. Vaylin doesn't even take the saber seriously as a weapon, down to wanting to fight what can be Lana + a Sith Lord/Jedi Battlemaster barehanded in Chapter III.

 

She still fought Senya evenly for a long time.

[kubosz]

What if Satele is influenced by a spirit different than Marr?

 

Two codex entries from this chapter do seem to point in this direction (or maybe it's just wishful thinking and overimagination on my part):

1) The "Force Ghost" entry tells a story of the dead Sith who possessed her child and used him as a vessel.

2) The "Disappearance of Satele Shan" speaks of the mysterious woman - the Jedi Master herself - being encountered on a ship by the patrol team. Supposedly, there was another being with her there - but the dialog with Marr and Satele imply that they met on Odessen, not during her prior travels. Who was the mysterious second person then?

 

After waking up from Valkorion-induced comma, one of the items we find on her ship is her mother's book which apparently discusses both dark and light aspects of the Force. We do not know much about Satele's mother, except that she was exiled by the Jedi and then mysteriously disappeared. Maybe during her exile, Tasiele Shan either fell into darkness or came in contact with Valkorion and now influences her daughter and, through her, the person who is destined to decide the fate of the galaxy?

 

...

...

Who am I kidding, it's going to be Revan again, isn't it?

[Slowpokeking]

Well it does make them harder to break compare to Jedi and Sith since they would not doubt. During a fight between Force users if one doubts their purpose, their powers they will be thrown off their balance. The Knight were completely loyal to the emperor they will use all their abilities for him.

 

Why do you need to break them? Does Sidious need to break Windu or Yoda? Did Jedi try to break most of the Sith?

 

They are hard to break, but on the other side, they don't get to learn from mistakes.

[ganondorq]

Senya is a saber expert, having been a honcho in Valkorion's guard since, well, before Vaylin was born. Vaylin doesn't even take the saber seriously as a weapon, down to wanting to fight what can be Lana + a Sith Lord/Jedi Battlemaster barehanded in Chapter III.

 

She still fought Senya evenly for a long time.

 

it's not clear that she was going to fight us at all in chapter 3.

 

it looks like she foresees us escaping there, or that she'd at least need to block the star ship blasts.

 

vaylin appears to foresee things all through the story.

[SerraShar]

coming late to this but...

 

 

I personally don't believe in coincidence , and I found it very odd that after you fight Valk he talk about ''training and finishing or needing training'' and right after that...you meet your Trainers.....Satele and Marr....

and it was all a coincidence that they were there ? and the oddest thing was Satele who say something like 'we found you in the wood , but we were unsure if we should help you or end you''...my LS was having a WHAT??! End me? wth for ?....weird......and weirder that it is Satele who say that . if it were Marr toward a LS toon maybe..but...just weird .

 

[YaanaOhtar]

Why do you need to break them? Does Sidious need to break Windu or Yoda? Did Jedi try to break most of the Sith?

 

They are hard to break, but on the other side, they don't get to learn from mistakes.

 

As I said, break is similar to throw them off balance. Jedi and Sith constantly try to break each others, put in doubt, anger, intimidation, redemption, etc......l these wont work against Zakuul since they believe whatever they do is for the Emperor. Hench Satele said : "You can't truly break them". Mind you Sidious lost against Windu, Yoda spirit and balance was broken and lost against Sidious. Since according to Bioware Arcaan and Vaylin are "stronger" in the Force than you, and you can't break them, you need another way to win against them.

 

I dont think they mean to put the "grey" force in here. Vaylin was never taught how to use the Force, Acraan is completely embracing the darkside while his brother is the lightside. So there is Light and Dark side in Zakuul, they are just no against either one.

[Slowpokeking]

As I said, break is similar to throw them off balance. Jedi and Sith constantly try to break each others, put in doubt, anger, intimidation, redemption, etc......l these wont work against Zakuul since they believe whatever they do is for the Emperor. Hench Satele said : "You can't truly break them". Mind you Sidious lost against Windu, Yoda spirit and balance was broken and lost against Sidious. Since according to Bioware Arcaan and Vaylin are "stronger" in the Force than you, and you can't break them, you need another way to win against them.

 

I dont think they mean to put the "grey" force in here. Vaylin was never taught how to use the Force, Acraan is completely embracing the darkside while his brother is the lightside. So there is Light and Dark side in Zakuul, they are just no against either one.

 

No, Jedi don't try to break powerful Sith, they manage to use the Sith' mistake of their lust and overconfidence. Sith don't try to break powerful Jedi, either. They use the Jedi's stubbornness against themselves. This, was how the Jedi fail in PT. Sidious didn't lost to Windu, he staged the fight to lure Anakin. Yoda didn't get broken by Sidious, you can see he was countering the lightning with strong will which even surprised Sidious. But he still couldn't win because of strength.

 

Jedi and Sith only would try such trick on the weak/young ones because their faith is not strong enough, against the old and experience ones, they use their stubbornness/overconfidence to find the blindspot and fight them.

 

Also, those "strong faith" were never shown in the story. If Arcann believe the Emperor, why did he try to kill his father to claim the throne? Vaylin didn't really trust her brother either, you can see she was shocked when her brother ordered to execute half of the knights. Both of them act like their father, like a Sith(especially Arcann), not some Zakuul belief..

[YaanaOhtar]

No, Jedi don't try to break powerful Sith, they manage to use the Sith' mistake of their lust and overconfidence. Sith don't try to break powerful Jedi, either. They use the Jedi's stubbornness against themselves. This, was how the Jedi fail in PT. Sidious didn't lost to Windu, he staged the fight to lure Anakin. Yoda didn't get broken by Sidious, you can see he was countering the lightning with strong will which even surprised Sidious. But he still couldn't win because of strength.

 

Jedi and Sith only would try such trick on the weak/young ones because their faith is not strong enough, against the old and experience ones, they use their stubbornness/overconfidence to find the blindspot and fight them.

 

Also, those "strong faith" were never shown in the story. If Arcann believe the Emperor, why did he try to kill his father to claim the throne? Vaylin didn't really trust her brother either, you can see she was shocked when her brother ordered to execute half of the knights. Both of them act like their father, like a Sith(especially Arcann), not some Zakuul belief..

 

Well we can agree to disagree on how Jedi and Sith fight each others, cause they will use everything not just one method to defeat each others.

 

About the Zakuul belief, Arcaan and Vaylin behaved like Sith because they are using the Dark side - hate, fear, anger - they dont follow Sith philosophy just as the twin act like a Jedi but he did not follow Jedi philosophy. How should i say this...... Ok, Jedi and Sith anchor by their emotions - Jedi will be clear of emotion, Sith will have full of them - that is their teaching, Zakuul is not, their anchor is their conviction to a goal, Knights for their Emperor, Arcaan is to defeat his father or whatever. That is what we know so far. I believe it is also heavily depended on how they are trained, We saw Jedi are taught to be calm, Sith are emotional but we don't know how Zakuul are trained, we saw they are fine with light side and dark side. Were they only trained to fight and ignore the mental training?

[Slowpokeking]

Well we can agree to disagree on how Jedi and Sith fight each others, cause they will use everything not just one method to defeat each others.

 

About the Zakuul belief, Arcaan and Vaylin behaved like Sith because they are using the Dark side - hate, fear, anger - they dont follow Sith philosophy just as the twin act like a Jedi but he did not follow Jedi philosophy. How should i say this...... Ok, Jedi and Sith anchor by their emotions - Jedi will be clear of emotion, Sith will have full of them - that is their teaching, Zakuul is not, their anchor is their conviction to a goal, Knights for their Emperor, Arcaan is to defeat his father or whatever. That is what we know so far. I believe it is also heavily depended on how they are trained, We saw Jedi are taught to be calm, Sith are emotional but we don't know how Zakuul are trained, we saw they are fine with light side and dark side. Were they only trained to fight and ignore the mental training?

 

Sith also dominate their emotion, they want to control their emotion as weapon rather than being driven by it. How is Arcann different from a Sith? He killed his father for power, then he used the power like a tyrant and let many people of his own(his mother, the Scions, Koth and a lot more) defect to others side. Who is more rational? Arcann or Darth Marr/Darth Jadus?

 

This all comes from Valkorion, no matter what did he claim himself to be, he is Vitiate, he is a Sith and all his superpower came from the Sith way. This is why his children all act no different than the Sith, just not as rational as he was due to power/age/vision.

[YaanaOhtar]

Sith also dominate their emotion, they want to control their emotion as weapon rather than being driven by it. How is Arcann different from a Sith? He killed his father for power, then he used the power like a tyrant and let many people of his own(his mother, the Scions, Koth and a lot more) defect to others side. Who is more rational? Arcann or Darth Marr/Darth Jadus?

 

This all comes from Valkorion, no matter what did he claim himself to be, he is Vitiate, he is a Sith and all his superpower came from the Sith way. This is why his children all act no different than the Sith, just not as rational as he was due to power/age/vision.

 

The twin brother were different which make me believe Valkorion did not teach either philosophy here. Senya were a head Knight and she is completely calm. Sith teaching using emotion , control the Force as you said to break free, Arcaan were not using emotion but emotion drives him. Jedi teaching absent emotion be one with the Force, Senya and the twin brother were not absent emotion but focus on serving Valkorion

[adormitul]

No, Jedi don't try to break powerful Sith, they manage to use the Sith' mistake of their lust and overconfidence. Sith don't try to break powerful Jedi, either. They use the Jedi's stubbornness against themselves. This, was how the Jedi fail in PT. Sidious didn't lost to Windu, he staged the fight to lure Anakin. Yoda didn't get broken by Sidious, you can see he was countering the lightning with strong will which even surprised Sidious. But he still couldn't win because of strength.

 

Jedi and Sith only would try such trick on the weak/young ones because their faith is not strong enough, against the old and experience ones, they use their stubbornness/overconfidence to find the blindspot and fight them.

 

Also, those "strong faith" were never shown in the story. If Arcann believe the Emperor, why did he try to kill his father to claim the throne? Vaylin didn't really trust her brother either, you can see she was shocked when her brother ordered to execute half of the knights. Both of them act like their father, like a Sith(especially Arcann), not some Zakuul belief..

 

While the fight between Windu and Sidious is so debatable a better example would have been Anakin and Obi Won I mean the guy lost well half his limbs and his lungs. And we know Anakin was stronger in the force that did not matter did it?

[Euphrosyne]

coming late to this but...

 

 

I personally don't believe in coincidence , and I found it very odd that after you fight Valk he talk about ''training and finishing or needing training'' and right after that...you meet your Trainers.....Satele and Marr....

and it was all a coincidence that they were there ? and the oddest thing was Satele who say something like 'we found you in the wood , but we were unsure if we should help you or end you''...my LS was having a WHAT??! End me? wth for ?....weird......and weirder that it is Satele who say that . if it were Marr toward a LS toon maybe..but...just weird .

 

Yeah. Weird. Suspicious, even.

 

Kinda funny how you can point out "I don't know what's worse: that you [Marr] went soft or that Satele fell to the dark side." And Satele shrugs it off like it's nothing, rather than trying to claim that it's "not really" the dark side. I wonder what that could possibly mean, she said sardonically.