MuskyBoy Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) With the utility that causes tracer missile/grav round causing a 40% slow for 6 secs would you be prepared to trade in the snare on blazing bolts/boltstorm for a ranged root (on a 15 sec CD)? Seems to me that with this utility the slow from tracer/grav trivializes the snare on blazing bolts/boltstorm (to some degree) given it can have 100 % up time (I am aware that the snare is a 70% slow compared to the 40% from grav/tracer) meaning you can use tracer grav to kite and the root to help escape. Thoughts Edited April 1, 2016 by MuskyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) If the same as a Ravage immobilise during channel, yes. It would be irritating to have a cooldown on the immobilise which has no connection to either the cooldown of Boltstorm or the resets on Boltstorm cooldown. So I'd rather it was simply attached to the channel. Bear in mind that Boltstorm applies ~6s of 70% slow. If that became a 3s immobilise it would not have all that much difference in how far someone could move but an immobilise prevents most gapclosers / escapes which is significant. I'd rather it replaced one of the worse Masterful utilities like the Stealth Scan boost and allowed any spec of commando to add immobilise to the Full Auto/Boltstorm channel (on top of the slow from Gunnery, which would only actually do something after the immobilise) in the same way Knights can spec for the immobilise in their utilities. The potential uses are broad from team focusing immobilised targets (if you can focus within the channels) and kiting out of 30m gapclose range during the channel. And it is something which could be applied to any spec. Would it be too obnoxious? How about when compared to sniper leg shot, knock back and cover, roll and cover again. Or maybe root on sage knockback, force slow and force speed into the distance. Those are pretty obnoxious but it's in the game anyway. Commandos just can't do that kind of thing. For added reference the immobilise would only be slightly longer to apply damage compared to a regular root. All roots break on damage after 2s while a Full Auto or Boltstorm is 3s or less depending on alacrity. The key thing being that a Full Auto or Boltstorm is substantial damage. Again just like a utilitied Ravage channel but at range. Edited April 2, 2016 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) My thought is similar to a slinger leg shot. If the devs refuse to make the 4 sec no leap on rocket out a base passive then a ranged root would make that ability work the way I believe its intended. I'm looking to actually remove the 70% snare from boltstorm and give the ranged root (immobilizes for 5 secs and breaks on damage). As I said with the slow utility from grav/tracer you shouldn't require an additional snare (from boltstorm/blazing bolts) given you can keep the 40 % slow up on a target 100% of the time. Edited April 2, 2016 by MuskyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 (immobilizes for 5 secs and breaks on damage Boltstorm is 3s long, at what point is it going to root the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 An entirely new ability similar to leg shot (15-20 sec cd) at the expense of the snare on boltstorm. I know it won't happen since combat is as low as operations on the devs priority list, but do you think it would be better or wprse for the class and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 A separate ability? Hell no. A utility which adds root on channel to Full Auto and Boltstorm yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyDarkkitten Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Boltstorm is 3s long, at what point is it going to root the target. I would assume if something like this was added it would be for the duration of the channal they were immoblised then slowed for 6 secs at its end. I think replacing the slow with a root flat out is a better approch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 No it would be op already have a root on rocket punch if specced even if ppl think its useless which it isn't. Boltstorm is devastating as is with the slow on top of the fact how often it can be used. Gunnery is honestly 100% fine as a spec in terms of damage and utility mandos and mercs in general just have fundamental flaws when it comes to dcds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 No it would be op already have a root on rocket punch if specced even if ppl think its useless which it isn't. Boltstorm is devastating as is with the slow on top of the fact how often it can be used. Gunnery is honestly 100% fine as a spec in terms of damage and utility mandos and mercs in general just have fundamental flaws when it comes to dcds. The usability of a melee root is extremely poor for a ranged class. A key point being, whatever you're using it for, the target is within 4m of you and still has full use of their abilities, whatever class that is, they are able to continue damage on you for most of the duration of the root. Worse than that, unlike a ranged root it cannot be used to prevent a gapcloser or gap maker unless hilariously, that person is trying to leap/move away from you when you happen to be next to them. The beneficial things you can do by stopping someone who is next to you are extremely niche. Like rooting someone for a knockback. Using Rocket Punch in a game is more useful than sabre attacks on the sorcs/sages and that's where it ends, adding a root at a range of 4m doesn't inconvenience an opponent anywhere near as much as doing it at 30m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 No it would be op already have a root on rocket punch if specced even if ppl think its useless which it isn't. Boltstorm is devastating as is with the slow on top of the fact how often it can be used. Gunnery is honestly 100% fine as a spec in terms of damage and utility mandos and mercs in general just have fundamental flaws when it comes to dcds. Merc/mando utilities aren't fine. Rocket out is useless given all the gap closers in the game. If the utility that gives leap/pull immunity on rocket out had been made base I would never have made this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The usability of a melee root is extremely poor for a ranged class. A key point being, whatever you're using it for, the target is within 4m of you and still has full use of their abilities, whatever class that is, they are able to continue damage on you for most of the duration of the root. Worse than that, unlike a ranged root it cannot be used to prevent a gapcloser or gap maker unless hilariously, that person is trying to leap/move away from you when you happen to be next to them. The beneficial things you can do by stopping someone who is next to you are extremely niche. Like rooting someone for a knockback. Using Rocket Punch in a game is more useful than sabre attacks on the sorcs/sages and that's where it ends, adding a root at a range of 4m doesn't inconvenience an opponent anywhere near as much as doing it at 30m. It's a root which is very strong in its self and that does a hefty amount of damage rocket punch root is mainly used for defensive purposes not to be broken by damage but to move away or heal up. Obviously a ranged root would be better but gunnery with its tremendous slowing power doesn't need it would simply be overkill especially if any changes were to come in the future (lol) for the entire AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Merc/mando utilities aren't fine. Rocket out is useless given all the gap closers in the game. If the utility that gives leap/pull immunity on rocket out had been made base I would never have made this thread. Please re read what I wrote I'm not talking about merc mando utility that all 3 specs have the option to take I'm talking about gunnery specifically as a discipline is fine in the utility department. On that note though merc /mando utility are great in the sense of most of them being viable options. What we suffer from the most compared to other classes is that we don't have enough points to take stuff that are crucial to our general survival and mobility with and without its like night and day. It's not so much the actual gap closers these days that are making melee strong it's the immunity they have. Sins fury maras, power techs, vengeance juggs and concealment all have great utility mostly attached to gap closer that allow them to stick on a target. That is where the main engagement is imo and usually ends up with who has what up last the and the most Also wasn't aware you were correlating this with rocket out as it wasn't stated in the first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) If you had have read my second post you would have read me correlating this to rocket out. The point was in all 3 classes you can keep a slow in a target the entire time if you take the 40% slow utility (which most probably do) so removing the snare on boltstorm isn't as big a deal. I only related it to gunnery as they were the class which would have had to give the most (70% snare on boltstorm) to get a ranged root. Also if merc/mando utilities don't cover all the abilities necessary for survival/kiting then they can't be fine. Edited April 13, 2016 by MuskyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zez-Kai-Ell Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 you really think the class need a root? Sure give a root to a class witch such nuking power, i agree commando is not easy to play, but most suggestions i have seen since long time is just people wanting an easy mode class shooting without chance to escape them, if insted complain so much and trully would learn and improve more on it that would be productive, or then sure give them buffs but reduce their damage then in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share Posted April 14, 2016 you really think the class need a root? Sure give a root to a class witch such nuking power, i agree commando is not easy to play, but most suggestions i have seen since long time is just people wanting an easy mode class shooting without chance to escape them, if insted complain so much and trully would learn and improve more on it that would be productive, or then sure give them buffs but reduce their damage then in return. No, the class need rocket out to work. A root is only needed because devs didn't give leap/pull immunity on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zez-Kai-Ell Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 No, the class need rocket out to work. A root is only needed because devs didn't give leap/pull immunity on it. mate the class eighter lose part of his insane dame cause saying she does not have it is lie or stay as it is, you cant expect keep high damage and same time more control over target, or you wanna break class? cause there is already enough classes for it. and class have immunity to leap on it if you use utility, once again is your choice on the style how customize play style, or is ment a ranged being able to keep all the time advantage over melee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) So make the class have to use a tier 3 utility to make its only escape viable. Don't even say hydraulics/HTL is an escape either. Edited April 14, 2016 by MuskyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zez-Kai-Ell Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 So make the class have to use a tier 3 utility to make its only escape viable. Don't even say hydraulics/HTL is an escape either. maybe, any change has to be well think ed to avoid bad balances like have been happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share Posted April 14, 2016 It's already a poorly designed escape because you don't go forward. Needing space behind means it's only usable in certain positions. Making immunity to pulls/leaps base will not make them overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 If you had have read my second post you would have read me correlating this to rocket out. The point was in all 3 classes you can keep a slow in a target the entire time if you take the 40% slow utility (which most probably do) so removing the snare on boltstorm isn't as big a deal. I only related it to gunnery as they were the class which would have had to give the most (70% snare on boltstorm) to get a ranged root. Also if merc/mando utilities don't cover all the abilities necessary for survival/kiting then they can't be fine. Actually didn't see the second post my bad if gunnery were to trade its 70 % slow per tick for 3 secs for a ranged root on a 15 ish sec cd that would actually be a nerf imo and I wouldn't go for that. As for a baseline ranged root for mandos in general ehhh it would be helpful all around prob push arsenals set up nuke power over the top though, medics would love it and IQ could use it especially since the slow they apply is really pretty weak but long duration. Smoke screen as base would def help all tress in the kiting department especially in yolo que I would personally go for this more so than a root especially if it meant giving up the slows. An alternative idea could be to also replace the rocket punch portion of the afterburners utility and place the root on maybe something like missile blast and give the root an icd of 10-15 seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DsevenO Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) If you're going to have a root, put it on priming shot (or something similar for the other specs). Adding some baseline immunities (like pts have to stun damage) and/or adding immunities to certain abilities like rocket out (instead of having to waste talents) would go a small way to balancing the class. Edited April 14, 2016 by DsevenO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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