Oricon quest chain, what does it lead to?

[Jedi_riches]

 

But you're not even trying. I mean NGE, Hates You, Zorz and other reputed guilds were complete noobs when they started. They only became good because they started asking questions, reflected on what could be better, and so on. I'm sure if you tried you could be a decent player.

 

Sorry i think i am in the better position to judge my abilities, i know my limitations and ops is a step beyond them.

[LudhaninRolgge]

And I doubt anyone would have a problem with operations that are related to story. Operations that are part of a quest chain that is otherwise solo missions are the problem here.

 

It's possible we have different definitions. I care about the cutscenes, where the story and the drama is. 7 random people suddenly joining in might make the fight more memorable, but it seems to be bad for the drama. It's fine for enemies who are just some distant threat that has to be defeated, but bad for enemies my character has a personal beef with. To me, important part of the climax - if not the most important part of it - are the cutscenes before and after the bossfight, and these are things that just don't exist in operations.

When I defeat Kephess, I don't care that I defeated Kephess, I care what loot I got. When I finally defeat Arcann (which we probably will do), loot should be the last thing in my mind.

 

Let's assume one thing : Arcan is so powerful even Dark Nox/The Emperor Wrath/The Hero of Tython, you get the idea, have to gather a lot of people to defeat him. But then you show up all by yourself and wreck his face. Even though he was supposed to be even more powerful. What's the climax in that ? A bit like the Dread Masters would feel way less powerful if you defeated them all by yourself or as Revan feels like a kid when you defeat him in the solo instance.

 

You say 7 random people, if we'd have to defeat him as a boss raid I know I wouldn't go with 7 random people, I'd go with friends and that's part of what would make the fight epic. I don't know if you have a guild, or even want to, but defeating bosses with friend give a totally new amplitude to said boss.

[Damask_Rose]

I've done some ops with a great group of gildies. I didn't like them and have zero interest in doing more. I prefer good old tank and spanks. I find the highly choreographed fights that are a staple of ops to be annoying and silly, not fun. Sure, we chatted a lot on mumble, and that was fun, but guess what? That interfered with my ability to follow the story. I have no clue what happened storywise in those ops. I agree with Seireeni. If the final fights for KotFE are only ops, the whole story will be ruined. That's the joy of the Revan fight. Solo minded players and ops minded players can both enjoy the story their way!

 

I'm playing Black Desert Online a lot right now. It's a predominantly solo MMO, and yet I'm constantly chatting with my guild on mumble. Socializing is NOT exclusive to group play. In fact, I find it much easier to socialize when I'm soloing than when I"m grouping.

[VegasTheLost]

Let's clear some things up. Oricon IS NOT a story line. IF you took the time and read your ship's mission terminal you'll see it clearly states with spoiler warning that doing Oricon will result a loss of story. And it's clearly stated there that those missing stories are in the previous operations. These operations are the Dread Master story arc. Section X, Seeker droids and Oricon are only sidequests.

 

Wan't to see the Dread Master story arc? Do the OPs, all of them.

[Seireeni]

Let's assume one thing : Arcan is so powerful even Dark Nox/The Emperor Wrath/The Hero of Tython, you get the idea, have to gather a lot of people to defeat him. But then you show up all by yourself and wreck his face. Even though he was supposed to be even more powerful. What's the climax in that ? A bit like the Dread Masters would feel way less powerful if you defeated them all by yourself or as Revan feels like a kid when you defeat him in the solo instance.

 

You say 7 random people, if we'd have to defeat him as a boss raid I know I wouldn't go with 7 random people, I'd go with friends and that's part of what would make the fight epic. I don't know if you have a guild, or even want to, but defeating bosses with friend give a totally new amplitude to said boss.

 

I'm in a guild that consists of 4 people - all of us irl friends. One of us wouldn't do an ops run even if we put a gun to his head, and the two others only play occasionally (though they do ops when they play - the only reason I've done DP once is because I happened to be on my healer alt, and their DP group needed a healer. Too bad they failed to inform them I hadn't done it before and I had to hectically read up tactics from dulfy anytime someone in the group had to afk...)

 

However, that's beside the point. Even if I had 7 friends playing SWTOR, their characters would still be random people to my story. It's like you were finally approaching the main villain of your class story...and then some random jedi knight that have never appeared in the story storms in and kills the villain before you have a chance to say a word. If my characters need help to defeat Arcann, I'd rather have all these people I've gathered - Lana, Theron, Koth, Kaliyo, SCORPIO, Aric, you know - helping me. And who is there to help you in Revan solo fight? Satele. Theron. Lana. Darth frigging Marr.

 

They don't do that much damage during the fight, but lore-wise Marr and Satele are at least equal in their power, even to the jedi and sith player characters. I didn't wreck Revan all by myself, I did it with allies that have helped me throughout the whole expansion. I think it's much better climax than having 7 random characters that have never appeared in the story suddenly showing up because I can't defeat the main villain by myself.

[VegasTheLost]

They don't do that much damage during the fight, but lore-wise Marr and Satele are at least equal in their power, even to the jedi and sith player characters. I didn't wreck Revan all by myself, I did it with allies that have helped me throughout the whole expansion. I think it's much better climax than having 7 random characters that have never appeared in the story suddenly showing up because I can't defeat the main villain by myself.

 

Matter of fact they did the fight instead of you. In that, you're(mine, anyone's) contribution is almost zero. What is required from the player is to gather those orbs and bring it to the NPCs so they can do what they do. That's it. Revan dies either if you do some damage or you don't. He will go down. If you however hit Revan, you will be pushed around, force choked, knocked down, stunned. That fight particularly is THE WORST FIGHT BW HAD DESIGNED EVER. And some of you folks wan't more like that.

Edited March 29, 2016 by VegasTheLost
Type-o

[Jedi_riches]

 

However, that's beside the point. Even if I had 7 friends playing SWTOR, their characters would still be random people to my story. It's like you were finally approaching the main villain of your class story...and then some random jedi knight that have never appeared in the story storms in and kills the villain before you have a chance to say a word. If my characters need help to defeat Arcann, I'd rather have all these people I've gathered - Lana, Theron, Koth, Kaliyo, SCORPIO, Aric, you know - helping me. And who is there to help you in Revan solo fight? Satele. Theron. Lana. Darth frigging Marr.

 

They don't do that much damage during the fight, but lore-wise Marr and Satele are at least equal in their power, even to the jedi and sith player characters. I didn't wreck Revan all by myself, I did it with allies that have helped me throughout the whole expansion. I think it's much better climax than having 7 random characters that have never appeared in the story suddenly showing up because I can't defeat the main villain by myself.

 

This is true, from a pure story point of view I want to be the sole focus of any climax of the story, with the allies that I gathered, I mean what's the point of collecting allies if all I do if fight alongside 7 other 'outlanders' the climax of a story is mine not other peoples.

 

As you mention the solo SOR boss does not have you wipe the floor with Revan alone the solo mode has a Dark council member and the head of the jedi order on your team and that's not even mentioning Lana or the other none force sensitives you have with you on that fight.

[Jedi_riches]

That fight particularly is THE WORST FIGHT BW HAD DESIGNED EVER. And some of you folks wan't more like that.

 

Then don't do the solo mode go and do your precious operation mode instead. The solo mode just gives players who are not ready or good enough for ops see a whole story, if players were not able to do that then I feel the game would be loosing too many players for them to cope with (I know I would be in that position myself anyway)

Edited March 29, 2016 by Jedi_riches

[Seireeni]

Matter of fact they did the fight instead of you. In that, you're(mine, anyone's) contribution is almost zero. What is required from the player is to gather those orbs and bring it to the NPCs so they can do what they do. That's it. Revan dies either if you do some damage or you don't. He will go down. If you however hit Revan, you will be pushed around, force choked, knocked down, stunned. That fight particularly is THE WORST FIGHT BW HAD DESIGNED EVER. And some of you folks wan't more like that.

 

In no way do I think the Revan fight is perfect and I in fact think there's too much cc in it. Doesn't change the fact that I still would rather have that as the story's conclusion than an operation boss.

[VegasTheLost]

Then don't do the solo mode go and do your precious operation mode instead. The solo mode just gives players who are not ready or good enough for ops see a whole story, if players were not able to do that then I feel the game would be loosing too many players for them to cope with (I know I would be in that position myself anyway)

 

Wrong. In ToS Revan disappears at 9% HP you than kill the core so none of the living things will be killed on Yavin and after this you have to do the solo fight still to finish the storyline.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Then don't do the solo mode go and do your precious operation mode instead. The solo mode just gives players who are not ready or good enough for ops see a whole story, if players were not able to do that then I feel the game would be loosing too many players for them to cope with (I know I would be in that position myself anyway)

 

But, if I understand correctly, you want another broken fight were your participation is irrelevant. More than that, you're ready to let NPC kill Arcan instead of you ? I mean that's what Revan solo is all about. A bunch of NPC fighting each other while the player is just there to free them from time to time (and you're not even forced to do that since they'll auto-free after a certain amount of time). I mean, I play a game to actually play, not watch NPC do all the work while I'm stunted. And if said NPC are the one killing the big villain, you're not the hero, they are. Just like Dath Marr, Shae Visla, Lana, Satele, Theron and the other are the hero who killed Revan, not you.

[Jedi_riches]

But, if I understand correctly, you want another broken fight were your participation is irrelevant. More than that, you're ready to let NPC kill Arcan instead of you ? I mean that's what Revan solo is all about. A bunch of NPC fighting each other while the player is just there to free them from time to time (and you're not even forced to do that since they'll auto-free after a certain amount of time). I mean, I play a game to actually play, not watch NPC do all the work while I'm stunted. And if said NPC are the one killing the big villain, you're not the hero, they are. Just like Dath Marr, Shae Visla, Lana, Satele, Theron and the other are the hero who killed Revan, not you.

 

I play the game for fun, I don't care about the difficulty of the content I just want to watch a good story unfold so the SOR solo mode was great for me and yes there are quite a few of people like me out there.

[peter_plankskull]

I play the game for fun, I don't care about the difficulty of the content I just want to watch a good story unfold so the SOR solo mode was great for me and yes there are quite a few of people like me out there.

 

I realize not everyone can put forth 100% of there time in video games, but I do think there is a time were people should actually require strategy and tactics to overcome obstacles.

 

As it is now, a five year old can literally play this game, hell even a one year old, all they need to do is be able to move there character to a mob and let the companion do all the work. The solo aspect of the game at the moment is COMPLETELY automated with OPTIONAL player input which leads to degrading factors in entertainment. I'm not asking for 6k DPS checks requiring precise stuns and interrupts on a .5 second channel, or anything, but some difficulty integrated into the game would be nice, or at least making me question what I will do differently when facing mobs.

[Damask_Rose]

I realize not everyone can put forth 100% of there time in video games, but I do think there is a time were people should actually require strategy and tactics to overcome obstacles.

 

As it is now, a five year old can literally play this game, hell even a one year old, all they need to do is be able to move there character to a mob and let the companion do all the work. The solo aspect of the game at the moment is COMPLETELY automated with OPTIONAL player input which leads to degrading factors in entertainment. I'm not asking for 6k DPS checks requiring precise stuns and interrupts on a .5 second channel, or anything, but some difficulty integrated into the game would be nice, or at least making me question what I will do differently when facing mobs.

 

That's a separate issue. I fully agree that the solo content is far too easy. But the solution is to provide at least the option for harder solo content, not to force everyone who plays the game into operations.

[VegasTheLost]

You are not forced to do anything. If and when BW implements some solo harder content this forum will be flooded for nerfs. BTW I think some will find the upcoming EC too difficult...

[Jedi_riches]

You are not forced to do anything. If and when BW implements some solo harder content this forum will be flooded for nerfs. BTW I think some will find the upcoming EC too difficult...

 

Well that's for us to test now isn't it at this point nobody know the level of difficulty on EC.

[VegasTheLost]

Well that's for us to test now isn't it at this point nobody know the level of difficulty on EC.

 

Yeah sure we don't know it yet. I was making a reference to the 'careful what you wish for, it might happen... and you might not like it' saying.

[Seireeni]

BTW I think some will find the upcoming EC too difficult...

 

Sorry for being out of touch, but what are you referring to? They making changes to EC?

[Jedi_riches]

Yeah sure we don't know it yet. I was making a reference to the 'careful what you wish for, it might happen... and you might not like it' saying.

 

As far as we know there is nothing 'gated' behind a full EC weekly run (all 10 rounds) so solo players can still do what they need to get bowdaar (I would guess that he is linked to it probably in the same way of Forex or Pierce is with PvP) but other than that it does not appear as if there is anything requiring you to do all 10 rounds.

 

Considering the 'rewards' for EC I would not really bet that it is going to be overly difficult.

 

Sorry for being out of touch, but what are you referring to? They making changes to EC?

 

I assume you are not joking

 

EC stands for Eternal Championship a 'new mode' that should be coming with the next kotfe chapter along with Bowdaar.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Jedi_riches

[Seireeni]

I assume you are not joking

 

EC stands for Eternal Championship a 'new mode' that should be coming with the next kotfe chapter along with Bowdaar.

 

Ah. Considering we're talking about ops most of the time, I automatically thought you were referring to Explosive Conflict.

[Gaspodia]

I play the game for fun, I don't care about the difficulty of the content I just want to watch a good story unfold so the SOR solo mode was great for me and yes there are quite a few of people like me out there.

 

The Dread masters story arc is a good storyline, but one that runs through several ops and quest chains and (at the moment at least) is one that cannot be experienced in solo mode. It starts with the imperial planetary story on Belsavis and continues through KP, EC, TFB and S&V ops as well as the seeker droid/macrobinocular story chain (which ends in group content) and is resolved through the Oricon story quest chain and DF and DP ops.

 

If you don't wish to join groups to experience any of this, you will only be getting a part of the story. Having said that, I am sure that someone will have YouTubed the cut scenes if you are interested in following the story on this.

 

I can't really see the devs returning to each of the group-only sections of this chain (most of the chain is group content) and recreating solo content to mirror the story progression at this stage, but I do hope they continue to add solo alternatives such as the SOR ending for new content, to give people a choice of how they want their story to conclude. Ofc, the most complete experience may only come with doing *both* options, as was the case with SOR.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Gaspodia

[VegasTheLost]

Ah. Considering we're talking about ops most of the time, I automatically thought you were referring to Explosive Conflict.

 

Yeah I'm at work and in an online meeting, getting sleepy and lazy. You get the idea....

[gabigool]

But why should solo players be the only one who can have nice stories ? Raiders like operations with stories as well, why do you think the Dread Wars ops are the favourite of a lot of players ? PvPers like to have their warzone tied in the story as well and wouldn't be so happy if the new warzone was just some random guy telling them to beat themselves to death without any reason. And why would a story finishing in an op be a bad thing ? I mean it encourages players to try new things. The story was what appealed me to the game as well then I discovered there was way more than story because the game pointed me that way. If I didn't try new things, I would probably have left the game a while back and a lot of players would probably have done the same. Story should be a beginning, not an end. Story is here to teach you the basic of the game, to direct you to other content. It's only logical that the "next level" content is the step to finish story and in the case of an MMO, the next level is group content.

I understand that some people don't want to do ops for various reason, but the game should not be designed around people not willing to group in a game where social interaction and grouping is an important part.

If you're ok to pay a monthly subscription to play a solo game, that's fine by me. But I want my operation and my pvp to be tied in the story. And as I said, I would be trully disapointed if we kill Arcan in solo because it would be really anti-climatic (which is not a spoiler because we don't have to kill him yet and KotFE has been out for 6 month, you really should know who Arcan is by now)

 

So much this. There are many people on these forums that really ought to absorb this.

[Max_Killjoy]

There's no apostrophe in the word "want".

[Jedi_riches]

So much this. There are many people on these forums that really ought to absorb this.

 

So much no, if kotfe was to finish with only a operation then that would be the end for me, there is nothing to say that everyone can't get what they want both a op's version and a solo version. To me this game is only about the story the journey is more important than the destination (ie endgame) I would play the 8 class stories over and over again before I set foot in another operation.

 

Before anyone else starts stating that this is a MMO, there are other group content outside of raiding that is not the only aspect of group content in this game, there are assorted flashpoints heroics that you can group with to complete if you so wish operations is not the only option for group content available, plus I like helping guildies with stuff and chatting with a regular group of people while levelling so yeah there is still options for me for group content outside of operations.