F2P access is not creating a positive experience - we are losing potential

[richiesilva]

The cred cap is the biggest reason I subscribe. I mentioned LotRO earlier. It is possible to "buy of" the gold cap in LotRO and that is a huge reason I don't sub to LotRO. So, I get very close to full access (there are still a few sub -only peks) to the game and I no longer have to give Turbine/WB a penny. The same would happen here if they raised the Preferred cred cap significantly.

 

Again, Preferred is not supposed to offer a viable alternative to subscribing. Also again, making the game easier for non-subscribers to play encourages them to remain non-subscribers; it does not encourage them to subscribe.

 

Who said preferred's supposed to offer a viable alternative to subscribing? I've been a sub many times as well as I've stayed preferred, I always come back beacause of warzones, Ops, Section X, Artifact Equipment Authorization, Hide Head Slot... (unlocks I haven't gotten yet which, at least on the GTN, are so expensive even an increase on cred cap wouldn't allow PS to buy them). It's very much possible to increase the credit cap without making it tempting for people to unsubscribe, 350k, a 100k increase from F2P, is downright idiotic.

Edited March 12, 2016 by richiesilva

[robertthebard]

Thank you for your detailed reply!

 

 

Absolutely, the point being he was frustrated and confused. He did not enjoy his experience. This is a dude that used to work as a manager for game spot works comic con booths each year. I take his assessment to heart being that he is knowledgeable about the industry.

 

I don't, and would recommend that any booths he's running replace him. Sprint is not Pay to Win. I can point you to some really solid examples of Pay to Win, so you can compare if you like. In fact, I'll just let you Google up Rappelz. Have a look at their item shop compared to ours, and let me know how accurate your friend's assessment of Pay to Win really is.

 

 

He's a pvp'er like myself, and wants to play with me. He frankly has no interest in any of those other options at the moment. So the a la carte option a would be a good fit for that scenario. But F2P in a sense worked well in that he is interested. I suppose the problem here is he just wants PVP at not the full suite of swtor. Keep in my he was more patient than most. Literally playing once a week to get a feel for pvp. Most people I'd argue arent that patient or would get distracted with another game in the meantime.

 

Hey Tux, check it out, an example where your hour cooldown wouldn't work.

 

 

Im thinking this would be the best route, nickle and dime them for each part so it makes more sense from a financial perspective to subscribe. But for the hardcore pvp or pve'ers they have what they want. $5 is more reasonable and i'd bet people would object less to that and create a more steady stream of revenue as opposed to a sporadic $15 just for pvp or pve solely.

 

Unless someone has some solid numbers that indicates that nobody that's F2P ever subs, or at least goes preferred, I'd say this model isn't working too bad. "My 3 friends" isn't any kind of sample size, especially given the complaint of "Pay to Win" concerning Sprint.

[branmakmuffin]

Who said preferred's supposed to offer a viable alternative to subscribing? I've been a sub many times as well as I've stayed preferred, I always come back beacause of warzones, Ops, Section X, Artifact Equipment Authorization, Hide Head Slot... (unlocks I haven't gotten yet which, at least on the GTN, are so expensive even an increase on cred cap wouldn't allow PS to buy them). It's very much possible to increase the credit cap without making it tempting for people to unsubscribe, 350k, a 100k increase from F2P, is downright idiotic.

I guess if people don't like it they can "cancel" their Preferred account.

 

[richiesilva]

I guess if people don't like it they can "cancel" their Preferred account.

 

 

Yeah, it's pointless talking to you. On all topics.

[robertthebard]

Who said preferred's supposed to offer a viable alternative to subscribing? I've been a sub many times as well as I've stayed preferred, I always come back beacause of warzones, Ops, Section X, Artifact Equipment Authorization, Hide Head Slot... (unlocks I haven't gotten yet which, at least on the GTN, are so expensive even an increase on cred cap wouldn't allow PS to buy them). It's very much possible to increase the credit cap without making it tempting for people to unsubscribe, 350k, a 100k increase from F2P, is downright idiotic.

 

Here's a guy that's all over saying you can do everything as preferred that you can as a sub, except get the latest KotFE chapter that is... In fact, my first idea was to link up this post and tell him to have his friend's go preferred, since it's apparently the best thing since sliced bread in swtor.

[bahramnima]

happy customer/player is a paying customer, and 15$ a month is small amount of money for 80% of the countries.

wild star is dying and went f2p with good model by the way much better than swtor but the game was/is garbage, same goes for successful mmos to not very successful to half dead mmos, you need to ask "is this really fun to play?"

Edited March 12, 2016 by bahramnima

[ZanyaCross]

Naturally, though, we have this subset of the subscriber base that want to cripple the game as much as possible for FTPers (all while ironically calling everyone else entitled).

 

It's amazing how prophetic I can be sometimes.

 

Oh look - the weekly "We want stuffs but we don't want to pay for stuffs so just give us the stuffs for free or we will moan a lot" post.

Then, to qualify what I'm asking for "It's horrible paying nothing and being restricted. Please lift restrictions for us people not sending money on a subscription"

 

Let me shed a tear for the plight of the free to play users...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

Nope cant do it.

 

I personally will never understand the "i dont pay anything for the game ,but i want more" mentality

 

Then understand this, the game was saved by it going to FTP, so how do you think that was accomplished if none of them are contributing to the game? You don't think that between collection unlocks, cartel market purchases, and the occasional passes, that maybe Bioware is actually making more money off of them than us? That maybe they are the ones who are contributing more to this game, by shear weight of numbers?

 

Seriously, fellow subs, get off your high-horses. if this game catered to us alone it would have died a pathetic death before SoR ever came out. Bioware should be doing what they can to encourage more people to play this game because a FTP may not be spending a lot here, but guess how much they definitely spend if they aren't playing at all?

 

Zero.

 

People like to feel like they are getting a good deal when they spend money, even if they aren't. Nobody feels good or like they are getting a good deal when they get nickle-and-dimed, which is what this game does. They nickle and dime you at every step and it turns people off.

 

On a related note, maybe if the WZ cap was raised a bit for preferred, or the cost of the pass lowered, I wouldn't hear so many PvPers whining that they never get pops.

Edited March 12, 2016 by ZanyaCross

[Andryah]

Then understand this, the game was saved by it going to FTP, so how do you think that was accomplished if none of them are contributing to the game? You don't think that between collection unlocks, cartel market purchases, and the occasional passes, that maybe Bioware is actually making more money off of them than us? That maybe they are the ones who are contributing more to this game, by shear weight of numbers?

 

Seriously, fellow subs, get off your high-horses. if this game catered to us alone it would have died a pathetic death before SoR ever came out. Bioware should be doing what they can to encourage more people to play this game because a FTP may not be spending a lot here, but guess how much they definitely spend if they aren't playing at all?

 

Zero.

 

People like to feel like they are getting a good deal when they spend money, even if they aren't. Nobody feels good or like they are getting a good deal when they get nickle-and-dimed, which is what this game does. They nickle and dime you at every step and it turns people off.

 

On a related note, maybe if the WZ cap was raised a bit for preferred, or the cost of the pass lowered, I wouldn't hear so many PvPers whining that they never get pops.

 

Really?

 

OK... understand this ---> if they make the barrier to content for non-subscribers low, then there is ZERO incentive for them to ever subscribe.

 

Honestly.. most of these types of threads are people who sub but would really rather play for free BUT don't want to lose full access to content.

[robertthebard]

It's amazing how prophetic I can be sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then understand this, the game was saved by it going to FTP, so how do you think that was accomplished if none of them are contributing to the game? You don't think that between collection unlocks, cartel market purchases, and the occasional passes, that maybe Bioware is actually making more money off of them than us? That maybe they are the ones who are contributing more to this game, by shear weight of numbers?

 

Seriously, fellow subs, get off your high-horses. if this game catered to us alone it would have died a pathetic death before SoR ever came out. Bioware should be doing what they can to encourage more people to play this game because a FTP may not be spending a lot here, but guess how much they definitely spend if they aren't playing at all?

 

Zero.

 

People like to feel like they are getting a good deal when they spend money, even if they aren't. Nobody feels good or like they are getting a good deal when they get nickle-and-dimed, which is what this game does. They nickle and dime you at every step and it turns people off.

 

On a related note, maybe if the WZ cap was raised a bit for preferred, or the cost of the pass lowered, I wouldn't hear so many PvPers whining that they never get pops.

 

Actually, based entirely on your "prophetic" logic, they should maybe tighten down the restrictions. After all, if, as you surmise, the F2P players are carrying this game under the current system, they could make it self supporting if they just tightened the noose, right? /sarcasm

 

On the other hand, going F2P opened the door to a lot of people that didn't want to pay a sub to try it out. How many of those players stayed on after the fact as preferred or sub? I can point to one, myself. In fact, I didn't even start F2P, I got a package deal at Amazon that included some sub time, and didn't let my sub lapse until I had my stroke and it had to, because nobody was sure I'd ever play again. I've cancelled it out a couple of times due to burn out. But the fact that it was F2P is the only reason I looked at it. I declined my invitation to the Closed Betas.

[jedip_enguin]

You don't think that between collection unlocks, cartel market purchases, and the occasional passes, that maybe Bioware is actually making more money off of them than us? That maybe they are the ones who are contributing more to this game, by shear weight of numbers?

 

The bulk of CC are bought by subscribers, BW have said this more than once.

 

Your fantasy scenario is not the case.

 

The game is supported by subs and CM whales, if you believe otherwise you are demented.

[XiamaraSimi]

The bulk of CC are bought by subscribers, BW have said this more than once.

 

Your fantasy scenario is not the case.

 

The game is supported by subs and CM whales, if you believe otherwise you are demented.

 

They wont get past "I dont want to have to pay for X so I should get it free because I feel Im entitled to."

Edited March 12, 2016 by XiamaraSimi

[branmakmuffin]

Seriously, fellow subs, get off your high-horses. if this game catered to us alone it would have died a pathetic death before SoR ever came out. Bioware should be doing what they can to encourage more people to play this game because a FTP may not be spending a lot here, but guess how much they definitely spend if they aren't playing at all?

 

Zero.

F2P already pay zero. That is why they are F2P. If you spend some money, you become Preferred. What kind of perks should someone who subs for one month or spends $5 on CC get? They seem to get quite a bit as it is.

[Karkais]

Here's a guy that's all over saying you can do everything as preferred that you can as a sub, except get the latest KotFE chapter that is... In fact, my first idea was to link up this post and tell him to have his friend's go preferred, since it's apparently the best thing since sliced bread in swtor.

 

How about buying dark matter catalyst off GTM?

 

I personally consider the game unplayable as F2P OR preferred. When I let my sub lapse, I stop playing the game, period. The wallet matters too much. Its simply a massive moneygrabbing scheme making you spend that money on unlocks also.

 

If I cannot tolerate the mere thought to play without subscription, then there is something wrong with the model in my opinion.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Karkais

[nanamaryjj]

I'm also in the "if sub lapses I don't play" yes the restrictions are harsh, but I won't complain about them, I'm getting something for free

Way I see it, personally speaking , is paying a sub is showing your support for a game, so when I stop paying, it means I take away that support

Same as I did with Lotro, EQ2 etc

 

Should restrictions be removed from f2p , absolutely no, it's not hard to get preferred, and in the grand scheme of things the sub fee isn't exactly high

[Gokkus]

The bulk of CC are bought by subscribers, BW have said this more than once.

 

Your fantasy scenario is not the case.

 

The game is supported by subs and CM whales, if you believe otherwise you are demented.

 

This is very much true. People who love the game obviously sub and are more committed to the game, so they buy more CCs. Casuals will never buy that many CCs because either they A: dont care enough about it to pay a lot or B: they cant/wont play often so they are confronted less with the ins and outs of the game and thus the possibilities for spending CCs.

 

There are people out there spending more on CCs in a month than I have in my enitre sub-since-launch time with SWTOR. Im betting the 80/20 rule more than applies to this game. BW is very much aware of this and caters to that group in the cartel shop.

[Jedi_riches]

It's amazing how prophetic I can be sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then understand this, the game was saved by it going to FTP, so how do you think that was accomplished if none of them are contributing to the game? You don't think that between collection unlocks, cartel market purchases, and the occasional passes, that maybe Bioware is actually making more money off of them than us? That maybe they are the ones who are contributing more to this game, by shear weight of numbers?

 

Seriously, fellow subs, get off your high-horses. if this game catered to us alone it would have died a pathetic death before SoR ever came out. Bioware should be doing what they can to encourage more people to play this game because a FTP may not be spending a lot here, but guess how much they definitely spend if they aren't playing at all?

 

Zero.

 

People like to feel like they are getting a good deal when they spend money, even if they aren't. Nobody feels good or like they are getting a good deal when they get nickle-and-dimed, which is what this game does. They nickle and dime you at every step and it turns people off.

 

On a related note, maybe if the WZ cap was raised a bit for preferred, or the cost of the pass lowered, I wouldn't hear so many PvPers whining that they never get pops.

 

I'm actually confused how exactly this game was 'saved' going F2P yeah sure it helps with server populations, however they bring next to no income into the game (remember its still subscribers who spend the most in the cartel market), I find it hard to believe that the employees of Bioware are working for free so it is still the Subscribers and the Cartel market keeping this game afloat not the F2P model.

[horrorfaneightys]

I'm actually confused how exactly this game was 'saved' going F2P yeah sure it helps with server populations, however they bring next to no income into the game (remember its still subscribers who spend the most in the cartel market), I find it hard to believe that the employees of Bioware are working for free so it is still the Subscribers and the Cartel market keeping this game afloat not the F2P model.

 

Can't speak for everyone else who came in F2P, but I wouldn't even be playing this game if it didn't go that route. I would have never even touched the game. Instead, I tried it out, and liked it enough to sub almost immediately, mainly for the different class missions. I've now been subscribing for nearly 3 years, and have invested more money in the CM. I'm sure there are others like me, and I do think we've had an impact on keeping the game up and running.

[branmakmuffin]

Can't speak for everyone else who came in F2P, but I wouldn't even be playing this game if it didn't go that route. I would have never even touched the game. Instead, I tried it out, and liked it enough to sub almost immediately, mainly for the different class missions. I've now been subscribing for nearly 3 years, and have invested more money in the CM. I'm sure there are others like me, and I do think we've had an impact on keeping the game up and running.

This is almost exactly my situation (and why I will not play a game that does not have a F2P option or a cheap enough for me B2P option), aside from the "spending money in the CM" part. I never have and never will spend a dime on CC beyond what we pay for as part of out sub fees.

Edited March 14, 2016 by branmakmuffin

[RangerPCW]

Can't speak for everyone else who came in F2P, but I wouldn't even be playing this game if it didn't go that route. I would have never even touched the game. Instead, I tried it out, and liked it enough to sub almost immediately, mainly for the different class missions. I've now been subscribing for nearly 3 years, and have invested more money in the CM. I'm sure there are others like me, and I do think we've had an impact on keeping the game up and running.

Same here. I was F2P. Ask my wife to join me. We were playing several months. Buy some CC for unlocks. Then we make a decision to pay subscription for half-year for both of us. It was almost 2.5 years ego. And we are subscribers by now, but not for long.

We like old SWTOR - that is why we became subscribers.

We don't like KotFE. We don't want to support that direction anymore. So when we finish act 3 storyline for last pair of characters, we will cancel our subscriptions. For some time.

We look forward and have a hope that things changes and BW/EA give us a good reason to subscribe once more.

Edited March 14, 2016 by RangerPCW

[ChicksDigHarleys]

I don't play when my sub lapses. I find the F2P/preferred restrictions to be annoying...as they should be. Same with LotRO. If not subbing didn't negatively impact my gameplay, why would I sub?

[nanamaryjj]

I don't play when my sub lapses. I find the F2P/preferred restrictions to be annoying...as they should be. Same with LotRO. If not subbing didn't negatively impact my gameplay, why would I sub?

 

Very much this 100%

[RangerPCW]

There is two aspects of subscription: access to content (story, FP, WZ, Ops, GSF etc.) and QoL-features (credit cap, bars, purple gear, crew skills, GTN-slots etc.).

The only way to build strong bound for players to stay subbed is content access.

No one will pay $15/month just for QoL-features.

[peter_plankskull]

F2P already pay zero. That is why they are F2P. If you spend some money, you become Preferred. What kind of perks should someone who subs for one month or spends $5 on CC get? They seem to get quite a bit as it is.

 

What if they bought the game at release for 50$, or worse, the collectors addition, and they didn't sub by December 20ish? Those 50$ average out to roughly 5$... so yeah... money well spent?

Edited March 14, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[nanamaryjj]

What if they bought the game at release for 50$, or worse, the collectors addition, and they didn't sub by December 20ish? Those 50$ average out to roughly 5$... so yeah... money well spent?

 

Hardly a fair compare, since it wasn't F2P then,

Like I never complained when Eq2 went f2p, after I'd bought so many expansions, the model at the time wasn't what it is now

[TUXs]

I don't play when my sub lapses. I find the F2P/preferred restrictions to be annoying...as they should be. Same with LotRO. If not subbing didn't negatively impact my gameplay, why would I sub?

LOTRO suckerd me in specifically because they didn't have restrictions like SWTOR does. I NEVER would have played that hairy footed midget game if there weren't a very generous F2P option. It took me over a month of solid playing as F2P to actually sub, but their F2P model made me want MORE, which is what the sub offered. More credit, more XP, less timers.

 

Why would any of you be opposed to trying something new that may bring in more players? Are you that narrow minded or delusional enough to think everyone should like this game? The restrictions in SWTOR could very easily be adjusted to try to appeal to more players.