F2P access is not creating a positive experience - we are losing potential

[Folgrin]

How many people buy the new hot game for $60, zerg and finish it in 2 days never to touch it again?

 

LOTS

 

Starbucks coffees, usually around $6 each. Skip 2 1/2 cups a coffee that month, sub paid.

 

Smoker? A pack of smokes averages $8-10 bucks per. Smoke a few less cigs for a few days, your lungs will thank you.

 

Like non home cooked meals? Quarter pounder meal is $6+.

 

Like to throw back a few with your friends on the weekends? 12 pack of beer around $10. If you go to a pub, ONE beer runs from $5-10.

 

All these things listed are pretty much one shot spend and consume.

 

But $15 for 30 days entertainment access is "Too much!!!!!!!!!"

 

Keep in mind I'm not one of those "this is too much people!" I'm just trying to find a way to overcome the monthly $15 bucks objection. For some reason a lot ppl i talk with are opposed to that. I suppose maybe they're thinking after 4 months they paid for the game but they still keep paying to play it.

[ZanyaCross]

OP's experiences mirror mine to a scary degree. I've been a sub for over two years but getting my friends into this game is like pulling teeth. Naturally, though, we have this subset of the subscriber base that want to cripple the game as much as possible for FTPers (all while ironically calling everyone else entitled). They, of course, would love to get rid of FTPers entirely if not for the fact they'd then have far fewer people to feel superior to.

 

Here's the thing, FTP can be done right. Either do away with the subscription system entirely and make your money off the cartel market cosmetic items (which is likely where most of it comes from anyway), or figure out a way to encourage people to sub without making the FTP experience so hamstrung.

[TX_Angel]

Keep in mind I'm not one of those "this is too much people!" I'm just trying to find a way to overcome the monthly $15 bucks objection. For some reason a lot ppl i talk with are opposed to that. I suppose maybe they're thinking after 4 months they paid for the game but they still keep paying to play it.

 

Here is another way to think about it...

 

If you play the game enough that the F2P restrictions are annoying, then you probably play it enough to justify the cost.

 

At 3 hours a night, 10 nights a month, you're playing the game 30 hours a month. That is 50 cents per hour (less if you sub 6 months at a time) and you get CC. You can actually get your sub cost down to $8.65 per month accounting for the CC if you sub 6 months at a time.

 

If you play the game 30 hours a month, AND $15 is still a lot for you, then you have found your problem. Play fewer hours at the computer and spend more time improving your financial picture and all will be solved.

[TX_Angel]

OP's experiences mirror mine to a scary degree. I've been a sub for over two years but getting my friends into this game is like pulling teeth.

 

Have you stopped to consider that they don't WANT to play this game? SWTOR isn't for everyone. Just because YOU like it and just because it is Star Wars doesn't mean everyone will like it.

 

The OP keeps saying that his friends are only interested in PvP. Frankly, if that is the case, this is the wrong game.

[ZanyaCross]

Here is another way to think about it...

 

If you play the game enough that the F2P restrictions are annoying, then you probably play it enough to justify the cost.

 

At 3 hours a night, 10 nights a month, you're playing the game 30 hours a month. That is 50 cents per hour (less if you sub 6 months at a time) and you get CC. You can actually get your sub cost down to $8.65 per month accounting for the CC if you sub 6 months at a time.

 

If you play the game 30 hours a month, AND $15 is still a lot for you, then you have found your problem. Play fewer hours at the computer and spend more time improving your financial picture and all will be solved.

 

If your logic appears flawless and people still aren't subbing then obviously there are flaws in the logic or the people (in which case flawless logic becomes irrelevant). No matter how much you make the $15 a month sound reasonable, some people aren't going to do it because "logic" and "purchases" don't always intersect.

 

If you want a truly epic example of this just look at what happened to J.C. Penny's.

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by ZanyaCross

[ZanyaCross]

Have you stopped to consider that they don't WANT to play this game? SWTOR isn't for everyone. Just because YOU like it and just because it is Star Wars doesn't mean everyone will like it.

 

The OP keeps saying that his friends are only interested in PvP. Frankly, if that is the case, this is the wrong game.

 

Ever stop to think that maybe I know my friends better than you do and that maybe you should start listening to people's complaints instead of condescendingly telling them why they're wrong?

[TX_Angel]

If your logic appears flawless and people still aren't subbing then obviously there are flaws in the logic or the people (in which case flawless logic becomes irrelevant). No matter how much you make the $15 a month sound reasonable, some people aren't going to do it because "logic" and "purchases" don't always intersect.

 

If you want a truly epic example of this just look at what happened to J.C. Penny's.

 

 

Those are fair points...

 

Allow me to make one more... The person who isn't subbing perhaps doesn't like the game enough to pay for it? If that is the case, then what do we care if they play or not?

 

Or to turn it around, if the game is made "nicer" for the F2P player, then why would *I* continue to sub?

 

---

 

Example: World of Tanks/World of Warships - My son is currently loving these two games, playing them more than SWTOR now. Sure there is "premium" for a fee and ships to buy, but we haven't spent a penny on the game.

 

Why would we? The whole game is free, unlimited, without restriction. Now, if they are making enough on sales of premium ships and "premium access" to make money, good for them.

 

Taking that viewpoint to SWTOR, you'd have to remove the sub model completely to do the same thing. But WoT/WoW is not a MMO, it is a PvP action game, not quite the same thing.

 

---

 

TL;DR - If someone doesn't want to pay for something, perhaps they don't really want it that badly. Which is fine, nothing wrong with that, but giving it to them for free isn't going to get them to start paying for it.

[TX_Angel]

Ever stop to think that maybe I know my friends better than you do and that maybe you should start listening to people's complaints instead of condescendingly telling them why they're wrong?

 

Roll your eyes all you like, I think my points were fair. If they are not accurate to your specific situation, then fair enough. They are likely accurate to *someone's situation* at least.

 

So tell me, why won't your friends sub? If they want to PvP, just pay for the game.

 

---

 

If they don't want to pay for it, I can think of two reasons (please feel free to offer a third if you have one):

 

1. They are poor and don't have $15/month

2. They don't find the game to be worth $15/month to them personally, but could afford it if they did

 

If there is a third reason, I can't think of it, but offer one if you can.

 

I would submit that in either of the above two cases, your friends should perhaps find something else to play.

 

---

 

Side note: "Sprint" didn't exist until lvl 10 at launch for subs, and speeders didn't exist until lvl 25, so let your friend know that he is really not that hard up.

[ekwalizer]

I disagree with this.

 

F2P is meant to make a player want to play more. The restrictions the OP is talking about only encourage a player to leave this game to go play another.

 

Bioware could accomplish more with different types of restrictions...like only 3 WZ's per hour. Only 1 Op per day. Timers vs. hard limits.

 

When I played lotro, I payed because I'm not cheap. You were. Bottom line.

 

I tend to agree with this.

 

The credit restriction is ridiculous in and of itself. It is meant to stifle credit sellers ... who are violating the TOS/EULA in the first place. Here is a concept ... IP/MAC address ban any account found to be a credit seller in addition to banning the account itself. That information is readily available to Bioware.

 

Given that, at least at level cap, one might need to participate in six War Zones per day; I think 6 WZ per day should be the F2P limit. I'm fine with 1 OP per day, that is after all what is required for the quest.

 

Frankly, I would say NO LIMITS up to level 50, but XP for F2P also needs to shut off at level 50 - grandfathering in any character already over that benchmark. By level 50, if they aren't hooked they probably aren't going to stick around anyway.

 

Overall this is a good game and if the F2P model was adjusted we might be able to attract more players. But this F2P model isn't doing the game or the community any favors.

Edited March 11, 2016 by ekwalizer

[ekwalizer]

 

Side note: "Sprint" didn't exist until lvl 10 at launch for subs, and speeders didn't exist until lvl 25, so let your friend know that he is really not that hard up.

 

Sprint was a level 14 ability at launch, and for a long time afterwards, even for Subs.

[Cupelixx]

I said it when f2p was announced and I'll say it again. The current f2p implementation is garbage. Paywalling features that were already in the game prior to f2p comes off as punitive and money-grubbing. They should have focused on the subscriber experience. They should have focused on subscriber perks that made people say "holy s---, here's 6 months of payments take it!". Instead they focused on "how can we nerf the core experience and annoy people into subbing?".

 

They missed a golden opportunity to have people rave about how awesome it is to be subbed. Instead, we have threads to this day about how long-time subscribers don't feel valued. They could have used their creativity to do some really awesome subscriber perks. How about free mount training at level 1? XP bonus (not normal rate vs f2p nerfed XP, an actual bonus)? A bonus to earned credits? Earn more CC the longer you're subbed? A free hypercrate of your choice for each year you sub? Access to buy more variety of items directly from the CM?

 

Bonuses and perks vs. removing restrictions. I know which one makes me subbed for the time I play the game, vs one that makes me want to stay subbed even if I'm not playing and rave to all of my friends and everyone on the innernet why they should sub.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Cupelixx

[Stoofa]

Oh look - the weekly "We want stuffs but we don't want to pay for stuffs so just give us the stuffs for free or we will moan a lot" post.

Then, to qualify what I'm asking for "It's horrible paying nothing and being restricted. Please lift restrictions for us people not sending money on a subscription"

[Damask_Rose]

Threads asking for changes to free to play pop up regularly, but they often have vastly different ideas on what should be done differently. There is no consensus on what should change. If each of these posters had their way, f2p would end up exactly like a subscription, but without the cc grant. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if some asked for cc's too

 

One of the biggest problems I see with the old refrain of "remove the f2p restrictions and give perks to subs instead" lies in the way people perceive restrictions and perks. Many of the current restrictions, like not getting sprint until lvl 10, were the way the game was played for subs, but when f2p launched the level was changed for subscribers as a perk. Now that lvl 1 is seen as the norm, instead of being a perk for subscribers it is perceived as a restriction for f2p. You can bet your sweet *** that any possible perk you could dream up to encourage people to sub will be listed as a f2p restriction in a month or two.

[Manathayria]

I'm a PvP'er so I push pvp aspect of the game because thats what I enjoy about Swtor the most. My buddies are fairly like minded so theres no issue there. The real problem comes with warzone access and access to little things. For instance a friend of mine played till about level 9 until he couldn't stand not having "Sprint" enabled. It literally frustrated him so much he could handle it and he quit and I cant get him back. "F**k this pay to win stuff, im out!". Have not played with him since.

14 or 15 was the at release level for sprint. Movement isn't 'pay to win' when you still get it even if it's at a later level. It's a restriction that's in play and yes, is meant to encourage you to invest into the game.

 

Another buddy of mine was shocked when he discovered he could only play about 3 warzones a week. "Whats the point of these pvp quests, if I cant even get access to them. This isnt Free to play if I cant play!"

I think if he ques with a subscriber he can access more than the 3-5 warzones a week, however, I believe he won't get the rewards/coms for it anymore on that character.

 

Truthfully $15 a month in this day and age is a large commitment for most gamers. So creating proper motivation to subscribe is what needs to be addressed imho.

MMOs still generally go after the 50-60$ initial buy-in + 15$ a month right off (WoW, FFXI and FFXIV being top I can think of there but I know there are more). Yes we are seeing more and more F2P with microtrans, but the subscription based model is not yet dead. Many of the F2P I've played have steeper access restrictions for content for their F2P (DDO, LoTRO, SWTOR) or have heavy time or money investment needed to get what you want/need in game (STO, NWO). The heavier time sink is not something the current 'gimme now I want' generation wants. Or games are going to module purchases (DDO, TSW, Hellgate).

 

That is what it has been since back in 2000. For this game it is a 15$ 'buy in' to unlock all currently released xpacs up to the current KoTFE chapter. The only 'dlc' you don't get for subscribing once at this stage is Section X for HK-51. You of course have the option to continue subscribing for full access to WZ and FPs after dropping that single month subscription. Alternatively you can buy passes to get access to WZ or OPs/FP without restrictions beyond artifact unlock. (and if you attach a sec key you can get 100cc cc 'free' a month to 'save' on those)

 

Of course, you don't get any new KoTFE chapters after dropping subscription, but you can always sub once they release a chapter or event connected with a chapter that you are interested in to get

 

When I was gaming more and not sticking with the one MMO - I could easily drop 50$+ on a single game in 2000 that'd last maybe... a week, and for titles in 2016, I can drop 50-60$ or more, with the addon of having DLCs etc. Keep in mind the last big "price hike" was from $50 USD --> $60 USD in 2004/2005. Most titles only last me a week or two so I could see dropping 100$+ in a month on gaming.

 

Some rare games like Skyrim of FO4 will last a month or two. Maybe more when the DLCs come out. The monthly subscription fees back in 2001 were around 15$, today, they are around 15$. With the addition that buying bigger blocks of sub time now cost much less. The actual cost of gaming has gone down for MMOs, not up.

 

Now realising that we are not console gamers, here is a price comparison for you. I suspect that the cost of PC games would be similar but wasn't finding it on the initial google search. I didn't even bother going past page 1;

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/why-retail-console-games-have-never-been-cheaper-historically/

Also, source for the PC gaming price hike if you're curious;

http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/29/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/

 

Couple ideas: firstly dont create a negative experience for F2P. Enable Sprint, enable *higher warzone/space mission/flashpoint access. However minimize the XP and rewards that they receive, perhaps display the xp and rewards that a subscriber WOULD receive but only give them the bare minimum to let them process slowly (similar to what we have now, but more dramatic). The idea is to create a grind, so they are subtlety pushed to subscribe.

You can run infinite flashpoints with a subscriber in group. You just don't get to loot the bosses that are guaranteed epic drop more than 3 or 5x (which you can't wear as F2P anyway). XP for F2P is already hamstrung, they don't need to do it even more. Infact, since 4.0 they get more because with running planet/class missions it is much like having 6x active for a subscriber - so normal xp gain for a F2P for pre-40.

 

Also maybe not allow them to wear special armor and cosmetics (Cartel market armor, unify colors, hide helmet), this will annoy people but not impact actual game play, so thats a motivator to subscribe. Basically the idea would be, they are having fun but its becoming more work then fun with the xp and rewards being so minimal. That way subscribers and non subscribers can actively play together and help bring non subscribers into the fold because they cant keep up. I CANNOT do this with the present system period. Help me bring my friends in Bioware/EA!

Actually... that is exactly what the current system does with one change - they can use the cartel market armor and can use outfit designer. The 'special armors and cosmetics' aren't really limited much. Unify colors is subscriber (or use someone's referral link after subscribing). Hide helmet is sub or buy unlock off CM or GTN. But there are enough helmets that are just the tiny mic in front of the character's face to make that a non-issue.

 

Or perhaps a smaller monthly fee. Another issue is, I cant even bring back buddies that I used to play with, they simply say $15 bucks a month isn't worth it to me. Perhaps something like $5 a month for unlimited warzone or $5 a month for flashpoint/OPS access. This way they get access to what their play style (PvP or PvE) at a more cost effective and easier to digest fee, for people that haven't played mmo's for years or more cost sensitive.

If 15$ isn't worth it to them. You won't be getting them back in anyway as subscribers. Maybe you'll get them in for F2P but if 15 a month isn't worth it to them EA isn't going to care so much about attracting them. As for WZs they can get a single character pass for 240cc a week to do the WZ. If they're focusing one character that absolutely makes sense for them to do.

 

Quick question OP, did any I'd your friends click s Referral link before they started? It gives you 7days of sub lvl play free along with a bunch of goodies f2p/preferred can use.

 

 

This link will break the referral system down in detail..

http://www.swtor.com/info/friends

Only prior subscribers get the 7 days 'free';

 

 

Previous Subscribers enjoy seven days of subscription level access with unlimited access to missions and features up to Level 50 plus the following:

 

Preferred Friends Bundle includes:

Unlock: Inventory Module

Unlock: Crew Skill Slot

Customization Control: Display Titles

Customization Control: Unify Colors

One Complimentary Character Transfer for the lifetime of the account.

 

 

New accounts that have never subscribed get this for using a raf link;

 

 

 

New players can play free up to Level 50 with no time limit and also receive the Jumpstart Bundle with boosts and items for faster leveling.

 

Jumpstart Bundle includes:

1x Quick Travel Pass

5x Minor XP Boost

1x Inventory Module

 

 

Bioware could accomplish more with different types of restrictions...like only 3 WZ's per hour. Only 1 Op per day. Timers vs. hard limits.

I hope you meant day or something... because sometimes you only get enough pops to do 3WZ an hour to begin with. OPS they shouldn't be getting into for the simple fact they can't wear the armor from them so they're a 'wasted' slot. Hard modes you run into the same issue.

 

Something that may be worth noting for the OP's friends who're more PvP minded were interested in trying it; GSF has no limits for how much they can que and the only restriction/disadvantage you have there is from not getting as much req for fleet/ships per battle. Steeper learning curve and you need to start thinking in 3-D combat rather than 2-D ground combat but it can get interesting and competitive.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Manathayria

[yaxmutal]

You should create a "friends" account. I hope this isn't against the TOS but create a second account and sub for a month to get some basic perks. You will get a free L60 so you can do KOTFE and in a couple of house have a L65 for your friends to try then you can do some things together. Send the account some money to buy some basic legacy perks and there you are. A nice account to let your buddies try the game in a much more friendly way. Hopefully some will like it and decide to make their own accounts and become subs, that way everyone wins.

 

Take them bounty hunting.

Run them through a flashpoint.

Do a couple of PvP matches with you supporting and healing them.

Let them play the excellent class story missions for a couple of classes.

 

I think the game is great and you can get them hooked easily.

 

If they get attached to a character, awesome, let them keep the account and make another one for your next friend.

 

It will cost you $15 and a few hours, not too shabby.

[jedip_enguin]

Let me shed a tear for the plight of the free to play users...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

Nope cant do it.

[nanamaryjj]

Let me shed a tear for the plight of the free to play users...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

Nope cant do it.

I personally will never understand the "i dont pay anything for the game ,but i want more" mentality

[Giberelina]

The devs said they won't implement free warzones for f2p players because they saw that "the f2p didn't use the 5 free wzs they have anyway"

 

LOL.

 

Flash news: They don't use the miserable 5 free wzs because there is no point, to begin with, if you know that you only have 5!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wzs weekly passes apply to only 1 character and they cost over 300 cc. In the GTN they are sold at 800k-1.5M, if they are sold at all. Consider that F2P have to use 2 or 3 escrow transfers to buy that. Only that the escrow transfers cost 600k themselves. lel.

 

Let's not even talk about Ranked, right?

 

So, yeah, doubt you'll see many F2P players getting into PVP.

Many think that the F2P are scrubs, bads, kids, etc. This, in my experience is wrong. Some of the more dedicated and best players I met are running on preferred accounts. Struggling with everything I said above. Sadly, many of them are more likely to give up on the game than subscribing.

In fact, I feel a complete idiot for subscribing when the devs won't do anything about PVP state. Maybe if they'd care the situation would be different, but right now, subscribing only for pvp is dumb.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Giberelina

[Manathayria]

Wzs weekly passes apply to only 1 character and they 240 cc.

Fixed that for you. But yea, I remember them stating they wouldn't up it for that reason. Sadly they're probably looking at overall, not the ones that are there just for the PvP.

 

I miss when running with a subscriber would reset possible WZ and WZ rewards like it did pre-kotfe. I do wish they'd add that back for the simple fact that if my partner goes premium, I want to be able to WZ que with him on our main characters and just keep running. Us being able to play together means I stay in game more and they keep my subscription (plus my second account's sub).

 

If he's no longer able to effectively play, I tend to fall out of the game more and start looking at dropping my subscription for both accounts. Also; No, he won't let me just pay for his subscription instead of my alt's when he's looking at dropping sub. Tried that suggestion before. At the moment with the two of us playing we have 3 currently subscribed accounts /altaholic /dualboxing.

[TX_Angel]

Sprint was a level 14 ability at launch, and for a long time afterwards, even for Subs.

 

Thanks for the correction... I remember it being annoying, either way...

[richiesilva]

It'd be cool if Preferred could see Credit Cap increased, at least former subs. Not so sure about the rest now.

[MiguelGx]

It'd be cool if Preferred could see Credit Cap increased, at least former subs. Not so sure about the rest now.

 

/This

[Karkais]

Making it more attractive to play for free does not encourage people to subscribe, it encourages them to keep playing for free.

 

But the problem is that F2P doesn't even offer a reasonable preview of the game in my opinion. I know F2P is meant to entice people into subscribing, but how can it do that if the experience is crap?

[Kingsbount]

But the problem is that F2P doesn't even offer a reasonable preview of the game in my opinion. I know F2P is meant to entice people into subscribing, but how can it do that if the experience is crap?

 

Suuuuuure.... Free access to almost all aspects of the game cannot count toward preview of the game...

 

8 classes story's.

Taste of operations/Flashpoints.

PVP warzones access.

 

Hmm... So... Basically F2P have access to all features.

You want full version? SUBSCRIBE.

 

Oh... You want this for free... Sorry, you choose wrong game.

 

You want asian MMORPG's. Were all for free. Well... Almost for free... Just a tiny little detail...

All of those asian F2P MMORPG's are pure P2W. But you have full access to the game for free, don't you?

[branmakmuffin]

It'd be cool if Preferred could see Credit Cap increased, at least former subs. Not so sure about the rest now.

The cred cap is the biggest reason I subscribe. I mentioned LotRO earlier. It is possible to "buy of" the gold cap in LotRO and that is a huge reason I don't sub to LotRO. So, I get very close to full access (there are still a few sub -only peks) to the game and I no longer have to give Turbine/WB a penny. The same would happen here if they raised the Preferred cred cap significantly.

 

Again, Preferred is not supposed to offer a viable alternative to subscribing. Also again, making the game easier for non-subscribers to play encourages them to remain non-subscribers; it does not encourage them to subscribe.