Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[LanceUpercutt]

I'll just wait this nerf out, in the mean time ill pick up scavenge and archeology and just npc the world drops i get

[myrken]

The way the nerf was handled sux any way you slice it!

 

 

"lol just had to say it"

[Belkiratwo]

i was a slicer myself (still haven't dropped the skill, i think we'll see the nerf partially rescinded), and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see that the massive amounts of currency that slicing enabled people to make was hurtful.

 

rate limiting lockbox missions would have nipped remote mission grinders in the bud, limited the amount of currency inflation, and kept slicing an overall profitable skill. 71% was too much, it could have done with 40-50%.

 

 

A slight nerf may have been welcome but overtime inflation would have done the exact same thing to slicing that this nerf has; made it redundant.

 

Once the cost of crafting materials has matured (inflated) then it becomes more profitable to craft and run gathering professions then it would be to run slicing lockbox missions.

 

At that point point in the economic maturation Slicing would have become and augment based profession as that maturity of both severs in player numbers and character levels would ensure that the market existed.

 

What this nerf does is force slicing into an "Augment" only profession where there is 0 market for augments because the game is only 2 weeks old.

 

 

People just don't understand that the lockboxes profit margin has 0 growth ever. There is an artificial cap of money that can be made each day from lockboxes and that cap could never be exceeded. Yes there is a light margin based on crit% but even if you crit 100% of every lockbox mission you ever sent your companions out on then that would be the absolute ceiling and it could never be excede, not at level 50, not a year from now, not ever.

 

There exists no ceiling for any other crafting or gathering profession. The only thing that dictates how much profit you can make is how well you market your product and how many units you can move.

 

edit: and this is why if allowed to mature the market would have edged out slicing eventually, it's simple *********** economics. like grade 10 ****.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Belkiratwo

[Pansophist]

I still think people are looking at it the wrong way.

 

I think the mid levels needed to be nerfed, true. But I think, more importantly, a LEVEL CAP needed to be implemented. Slicing should scale as you level, and that would alleviate the numerous amounts of people whining because their level 15 friend is bragging about his 100k credits (really, 100k? That's two repair bills at 50).

 

A level cap would have solved so many issues, and it would have been so easy to do

[Hellyeah_Rook]

Am I the only one who thinks that the whole issue with Slicing is a part of a bigger problem? I feel that crafting as a whole is completely useless. Why bother buying a piece of gear off the GM when you get equal items as quest rewards, or as random drops when you run instances?

 

Also there seems to be a huge abundant of blues and purples at low levels. In other games these items were rare, and their value on the market reflected this. Why should a player buy my blue piece of armor off the GM when it is practically handed to them for free from doing a Heroic or an Instance like Hammer Station?

 

I know common items aren't suppose to turn a profit and are desgined to be money sinks instead, and that is fine. But when a person can't sell a single piece of purple armor on their recipie list, that person is not going to invest in mats, and as you can see it affects the whole market.

 

While I don't think the slicing nerf was bad, I do think it was a poor attempt to put a bandaide on a fractured arm.

 

One thing I do want to say that I think people aren't taking into consideration is the 40k cost of training for a mount at level 25. I didn't have to buy a mount thankfully, but that 40k was pretty much all the money I had at that level. I wasn't able to put anything towards gear, or the GM at all until I picked up slicing last week and power leveled that.

[chipch]

I can't help but add my comments to this already-bloated thread.

 

I'm one of those folks that's a casual MMO gamer. That doesn't mean that I prefer Angry Birds to the likes of Skyrim or SWTOR, but instead, I have other priorities that I have to prioritize over power-gaming an MMO. Little things like a job. And kids. And a wife. (usually in that order).

 

Slicing was allowing me to rake in what I thought was a bit much at the time (and this was without alts), but the scale-back on profit is far too severe. I saw slicing as my chance to still have a bit of money to play with when I was able to log in once every couple of days or so. By having a tier 5 mission to send my companion on, I would be able to get a 3k or 4k back which was enough to outfit that same companion in the gear I just unlocked by leveling. I could then play and enjoy the game.

 

Now I have very little 'disposable' income that I have to save for my own skills with little to nothing left over.

 

I still think that slicing can be a gathering skill used to gather money, but perhaps they should have just doubled or tripled the mission run times without killing the returns. That way it drastically slows the money printing while still providing 'casual' players a way to be a part of the economy.

 

Many of the spreadsheets I've seen are dependent on the player being at the game spamming the slicing missions. If a slicing mission had an 8 hour timer and a 6k return it would still provide income but the people using it to credit farm would no longer be able to exploit it but people that only have time to log in a few times a week would still keep it as their third crew skill.

[knightnvy]

I can't help but add my comments to this already-bloated thread.

 

I'm one of those folks that's a casual MMO gamer. That doesn't mean that I prefer Angry Birds to the likes of Skyrim or SWTOR, but instead, I have other priorities that I have to prioritize over power-gaming an MMO. Little things like a job. And kids. And a wife. (usually in that order).

 

Slicing was allowing me to rake in what I thought was a bit much at the time (and this was without alts), but the scale-back on profit is far too severe. I saw slicing as my chance to still have a bit of money to play with when I was able to log in once every couple of days or so. By having a tier 5 mission to send my companion on, I would be able to get a 3k or 4k back which was enough to outfit that same companion in the gear I just unlocked by leveling. I could then play and enjoy the game.

 

Now I have very little 'disposable' income that I have to save for my own skills with little to nothing left over.

 

I still think that slicing can be a gathering skill used to gather money, but perhaps they should have just doubled or tripled the mission run times without killing the returns. That way it drastically slows the money printing while still providing 'casual' players a way to be a part of the economy.

 

Many of the spreadsheets I've seen are dependent on the player being at the game spamming the slicing missions. If a slicing mission had an 8 hour timer and a 6k return it would still provide income but the people using it to credit farm would no longer be able to exploit it but people that only have time to log in a few times a week would still keep it as their third crew skill.

 

stupid idea. its the same thing as a nerf

[Pansophist]

A slight nerf may have been welcome but overtime inflation would have done the exact same thing to slicing that this nerf has; made it redundant.

 

Once the cost of crafting materials has matured (inflated) then it becomes more profitable to craft and run gathering professions then it would be to run slicing lockbox missions.

 

At that point point in the economic maturation Slicing would have become and augment based profession as that maturity of both severs in player numbers and character levels would ensure that the market existed.

 

What this nerf does is force slicing into an "Augment" only profession where there is 0 market for augments because the game is only 2 weeks old.

 

 

 

People just don't understand that the lockboxes profit margin has 0 growth ever. There is an artificial cap of money that can be made each day from lockboxes and that cap could never be exceeded. Yes there is a light margin based on crit% but even if you crit 100% of every lockbox mission you ever sent your companions out on then that would be the absolute ceiling and it could never be excede, not at level 50, not a year from now, not ever.

 

There exists no ceiling for any other crafting or gathering profession. The only thing that dictates how much profit you can make is how well you market your product and how many units you can move.

 

edit: and this is why if allowed to mature the market would have edged out slicing eventually, it's simple *********** economics. like grade 10 ****.

 

Ahh, sense. How I love thee. Too bad Bioware listened to the whiners instead.

[psiphre]

A slight nerf may have been welcome but overtime inflation would have done the exact same thing to slicing that this nerf has; made it redundant.

 

Once the cost of crafting materials has matured (inflated) then it becomes more profitable to craft and run gathering professions then it would be to run slicing lockbox missions.

 

At that point point in the economic maturation Slicing would have become and augment based profession as that maturity of both severs in player numbers and character levels would ensure that the market existed.

 

What this nerf does is force slicing into an "Augment" only profession where there is 0 market for augments because the game is only 2 weeks old.

 

 

People just don't understand that the lockboxes profit margin has 0 growth ever. There is an artificial cap of money that can be made each day from lockboxes and that cap could never be exceeded. Yes there is a light margin based on crit% but even if you crit 100% of every lockbox mission you ever sent your companions out on then that would be the absolute ceiling and it could never be excede, not at level 50, not a year from now, not ever.

 

There exists no ceiling for any other crafting or gathering profession. The only thing that dictates how much profit you can make is how well you market your product and how many units you can move.

 

edit: and this is why if allowed to mature the market would have edged out slicing eventually, it's simple *********** economics. like grade 10 ****

.

 

i don't disagree with any of what you're saying. i do think that slicing was a good "training wheels" skill - provides credits for the leveling process, peters out at 50, and that's OK. it was a good model for a tradeskill that would get abandoned for something useful, like a crafting skill, at max level.

 

and 100k may not seem like much to a 50, but there were people making several alts and doing that on all of them. 800k IS a lot of credits.

Edited December 28, 2011 by psiphre

[_Straps_]

I'm willing to bet this was done to reduce what will be a huge incomming flux of gold farmers. Think about it... get a char to what lvl 15, have 2 Slicers running full time, make a ton of alts built the same... ???

 

I was funding my "other" crafting skills so this hurts me too but I'm pretty sure it was necessary.

 

Just my opinion (but then again, anything anyone posts should be simply taken as their opinion)

[RaZoor]

I would love to know how many people who are 50 and have slicing actually think its a huge money maker. Most of us see it as a pain in the ***, trying to manage a window that pops up every 5 minutes.

 

For those of you talking about people who are making 8 characters and leveling them to 10 and doing slicing missions and having 15million credits i say simply....LOL

 

you are lying.

 

A level 10 gets 2 companions, they can send on missions. assuming they only do orange quests they will need to do 200 of them. That is 100 login and 100 logouts. Assuming that is a no queue server. and they have 8 toons doing this. I am guessing it takes about 5 minutes to manage 1 character swap and requeue of missions. that is 8 toons x 100 logins x 5 minutes per login.

 

4000 minutes to get them all to 400. that is 66 hours of non stop logging in and logging out. If someone out there is doing that.. then damn they deserve the credits they are working their asses off.

 

as for the money....16 toons running all rich yeilds at level 47 = 16 x 5k profit = 80k per hour. at 50 you can make 50k per hour doing daily questss. kinda pointless to work your *** off for 30k extra dont you think??

 

50k per hour playing 24 hours per day logging level 10 toons non stop to restart slicing missions will yield you 250k per day and a huge L on your forehead.

 

I just cant see it.

[Darkenlight]

Just chiming in, slicing is a net loss now. I wish I could actually check out the posts from the devs on this or any replies they've made because its blatantly apparent there are a lot of folks who if not affected by this change, aren't a huge fan of the knee-jerk reaction they made by implementing this.

[Hajizan]

Does BW have any long time plans for this game? Is BW going to run the game by how much a few vocal people whine?

 

Today very little of my stuff is selling, I don't think people are spending credits. Good job on stagnating the economy BW.

[Raelstrom]

You want free money? Take the skill. You don't want free money? Don't take the skill.

[Yummymango]

Too many low level players who haven't reached 30 started whining . Now they will realize that nerf was bad idea because at higher level even your training skills cost so much money.

 

1 of my character who is not a slicer cant afford to buy anything and cant level crafting much because almost all gold is spent on leveling skills, training etc. I have 30K in bags and I wonder how am I going to get the riding training at 40 level. there is no way I can do it if I start leveling my professions.

 

 

Too much nerf that it hurts now.

[_Straps_]

I would love to know how many people who are 50 and have slicing actually think its a huge money maker. Most of us see it as a pain in the ***, trying to manage a window that pops up every 5 minutes.

 

For those of you talking about people who are making 8 characters and leveling them to 10 and doing slicing missions and having 15million credits i say simply....LOL

 

you are lying.

 

A level 10 gets 2 companions, they can send on missions. assuming they only do orange quests they will need to do 200 of them. That is 100 login and 100 logouts. Assuming that is a no queue server. and they have 8 toons doing this. I am guessing it takes about 5 minutes to manage 1 character swap and requeue of missions. that is 8 toons x 100 logins x 5 minutes per login.

 

4000 minutes to get them all to 400. that is 66 hours of non stop logging in and logging out. If someone out there is doing that.. then damn they deserve the credits they are working their asses off.

 

as for the money....16 toons running all rich yeilds at level 47 = 16 x 5k profit = 80k per hour. at 50 you can make 50k per hour doing daily questss. kinda pointless to work your *** off for 30k extra dont you think??

 

50k per hour playing 24 hours per day logging level 10 toons non stop to restart slicing missions will yield you 250k per day and a huge L on your forehead.

 

I just cant see it.

 

I have 3 slicers (out of 4 total chars) at slicing 400 and I can (could) just keep them continually running slicing missions and make mad cash. (none of my chars are about lvl 23 yet)

[RaZoor]

You want free money? Take the skill. You don't want free money? Don't take the skill.

 

Anyone who has the skill, and has leveled it to 400 and managed it all the way to level 50 will tell you it isnt exactly free money. It still requires some micro management, and considering the money earning possibilities at 50 its its like sprinkles on the cake.

 

Its just funny that Bioware would nerf something knowing full well that most of the whiners couldnt have had a full experience yet. Shame on you Bioware...

[Toggles]

A slight nerf may have been welcome but overtime inflation would have done the exact same thing to slicing that this nerf has; made it redundant.

 

Once the cost of crafting materials has matured (inflated) then it becomes more profitable to craft and run gathering professions then it would be to run slicing lockbox missions.

 

At that point point in the economic maturation Slicing would have become and augment based profession as that maturity of both severs in player numbers and character levels would ensure that the market existed.

 

What this nerf does is force slicing into an "Augment" only profession where there is 0 market for augments because the game is only 2 weeks old.

 

 

People just don't understand that the lockboxes profit margin has 0 growth ever. There is an artificial cap of money that can be made each day from lockboxes and that cap could never be exceeded. Yes there is a light margin based on crit% but even if you crit 100% of every lockbox mission you ever sent your companions out on then that would be the absolute ceiling and it could never be excede, not at level 50, not a year from now, not ever.

 

There exists no ceiling for any other crafting or gathering profession. The only thing that dictates how much profit you can make is how well you market your product and how many units you can move.

 

edit: and this is why if allowed to mature the market would have edged out slicing eventually, it's simple *********** economics. like grade 10 ****.

I've been trying to preach this as well but it seems that people who wanted the nerf in the first place are either

A: too stubborn to listen

or

B: too stupid to understand

 

 

Heck, that's one of the reasons I started to love slicing and I thought BW did this on purpose. I was pleased with their ingenuity and intelligence... then the nerf happened and I realized they stumbled upon this piece of MMO gold by pure chance, apparently.

[_Straps_]

Anyone who has the skill, and has leveled it to 400 and managed it all the way to level 50 will tell you it isnt exactly free money. It still requires some micro management, and considering the money earning possibilities at 50 its its like sprinkles on the cake.

 

Its just funny that Bioware would nerf something knowing full well that most of the whiners couldnt have had a full experience yet. Shame on you Bioware...

 

If you're already lvl 50, I doubt you had a full experience either lol!

[Yummymango]

I've been trying to preach this as well but it seems that people who wanted the nerf in the first place are either

A: too stubborn to listen

or

B: too stupid to understand

 

 

Heck, that's one of the reasons I started to love slicing and I thought BW did this on purpose. I was pleased with their ingenuity and intelligence... then the nerf happened and I realized they stumbled upon this piece of MMO gold by pure chance, apparently.

 

I think nerfing a profession in the first week of game is out is just stupid. They should do it once majority of population is at level cap and market has matured. just because some peopel whined and they nerfed it is really sad.

 

 

On other hand even if a nerf was needed, it should not be to the extent that we lose money (I am losing 1K every mission on average) on leveling it.

[Kazzuk]

QQers, read this:

 

If you do the 25-32 missions (and ignore the completely useless augment missions at this level), there is literally no way you lose money.

 

The most profitable missions are in the 25-32 level. If you don't believe me, thats fine, keep doing what you are doing and im sure Bioware will react (not really, but maybe that made you feel better).

 

Slicing does not need a nerf. I can quite easily make 20-25,000 credits an hour by sending two companions out on constant ~10 minute missions (and by supplementing those credits with slicing world nodes).

 

Just because you can no longer fund your own personal army in a matter of minutes does not mean slicing is "broken." it just means that slicing is no longer an OP crew skill.

 

Are you literally trying to get people to loose credits? Those levels are the ABSOLUTE worst missions and were a net loss even before the nerf. Look at the spreadsheet the OP posted, the missions at this level are a GUARANTEED LOSS. Do not listen to this advice, this pers0on is a clueless mynock.

 

That said, I do think they went too far, I sent 3 companions out for 4 hours last night while running FPs (one that had a +crit modifier for slicing) and it was moslty a wash credit wise, It only takes one mission failure to wipe out several hours of 200 credit returns. I think I netted about 1k credits for the entire time period and a few missions that do not sell at all (I give em to guildies anyway). I make much more just grinding mobs.... since most mobs on Hoth drop at least 90+ credits a mob, After an hour questing on HOTH I netted 8K in trash/vender items as well, so basically slicing missions are NOT worth the time at all anymore. Too much risk for too little reward. (takes 10 missions at an average of 200 credits profit a mission to wipe out one failed 2K mission.... yeah, not worth it, especially since they seemed to nerf crits drasticaly as well).

 

In short,

 

1. Do not listen to the guy I quoted.

2. The nerf was I think too drastic.

3. I did expect a nerf.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Kazzuk

[Jedicc]

I'm REALLY disappointed how this game has become since the nerf and how things were being handled. First, I missed the early access and it feels like I will never be able to catch up with those who got in early. Well tough luck, no one cares. Now, they decided to nerf that slicing to widen the economy margin between those who have millions and millions of credits since the early access with slicing and those newbies who are struggling to come up with credits to buy speeder. I just feel it's not worth it to spend time on this game anymore. I thought Blizzards was bad on nerfing WoW, but you guys take it to another level. As a result, I returned my CE and have second thought on continuing subscription.

[knightnvy]

If you're already lvl 50, I doubt you had a full experience either lol!

 

he got the experience that he wanted dont hate on that.

[_Straps_]

I think nerfing a profession in the first week of game is out is just stupid. They should do it once majority of population is at level cap and market has matured. just because some peopel whined and they nerfed it is really sad.

 

 

On other hand even if a nerf was needed, it should not be to the extent that we lose money (I am losing 1K every mission on average) on leveling it.

 

Maybe you should gather the nodes while questing/what not vice sending your companions out. Can't loose money there.

[RaZoor]

The real issue is that softies see things they cant afford on the GTN and they dont like it.

 

Then they whine.

 

Maybe Bioware should issue credit cards.

 

I bet Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae will hook them up.

 

Oh wait, been there done that.

 

Just because a game is new, and you bought it doesnt mean you get to have it ALL on day three. There are losers who dont have jobs who sit in their underpants all day in rooms that smell like farts and 5 day old Pizza who DO get to have it all.

 

Once you recognize THAT you will be fine, and BIOWARE can put Slicing back the way it was.