Lack of New OPS

[MBloomberg]

Is anybody else as pissed about the lack of info of any new group content?, does Bioware realize how much of the player base only plays this game for the Ops? They call this game an MMO, sure the story of KotFE was decent. But its been a year now since any new ops and we don't even have an ETA on when we can expect new ones. I'm pretty sure they said the gap between DF/DP and tos/Rav was a mistake and they would make an effort to release new group content whether that's a new OP or flashpoint in a much more timely manner.

 

I'm sure this is unacceptable to any person who avidly runs ops. The content is literally a faceroll now for most groups, especially groups that have been running together for the past few years, if you Bioware don't announce anything soon you will more than likely lose hundreds of subs, if not more

[KeyboardNinja]

Yes, I'm upset. My write-up of my opinion is here.

 

The thing I'm really worried about is the fact that the percentage of the population who regularly do operations is actually quite small. The percentage of that population who clear the hardest content (NiMs + 3.0 HMs) is microscopic. So a microscopic subset of a very small percentage of the overall population are the most directly affected by this. As a member of that subset, I'm beside myself with frustration. I have no idea if it will make a difference though, when the majority of the game is probably quite happy.

[DaForceiswithme]

Yes, I'm upset. My write-up of my opinion is here.

 

The thing I'm really worried about is the fact that the percentage of the population who regularly do operations is actually quite small. The percentage of that population who clear the hardest content (NiMs + 3.0 HMs) is microscopic. So a microscopic subset of a very small percentage of the overall population are the most directly affected by this. As a member of that subset, I'm beside myself with frustration. I have no idea if it will make a difference though, when the majority of the game is probably quite happy.

 

as someone that rarely does ops I am upset. The single player content does not last long and the main thing that keeps MMO's going is guilded group content.

 

I keep hearing from people when ask why do you still play WoW and they say that they don't want to leave their friends.

[MBloomberg]

While I may be wrong about the number of people who do regularly run ops, the fact that even the casual players who prefer just doing story, they still run group finder ops, and that occasional hard mode OP, and even they will get sick of running the same story mode over and over and over again.

 

This isn't just about the hardcore raiders, the simple fact of we need more group content. At this point i would be happy with one operation, as long as we have new content in quicker intervals, or, if they simply fixed the NIM bug and have the correct loot tables there, at least then there would be incentive to run NIM content, I will stay subscribed because I love Star Wars, but they need to come up with a way to keep both the casuals and hardcore players happy, and they simply aren't doing it at this point in time

[WiththeForc]

Honestly, it's not just about the ops. I don't pvp AT ALL, but I'll tell ya what, had their announcement been pvp-related, I would've been happy cause it would've meant Bioware is at least paying SOME attention to their end-game community. The major problem with this game is that BW keeps bottle-necking all of their efforts into one aspect of the game (a story completable within an hour). Pvp has pretty much gotten the shaft since release and pve has been terribly slow ever since DF/DP. Rather than putting all their eggs in one basket, they should be spreading it out into all forms of the game. Yes, there are people who solely do story, solely do ops, and solely do pvp, etc. But I'm willing to bet there's a much larger population that enjoy doing a mixture of all those things but are instead forced to play what BW puts out Edited December 2, 2015 by WiththeForc

[MBloomberg]

Honestly, it's not just about the ops. I don't pvp AT ALL, but I'll tell ya what, had their announcement been pvp-related, I would've been happy cause it would've meant Bioware is at least paying SOME attention to their end-game community. The major problem with this game is that BW keeps bottle-necking all of their efforts into one aspect of the game (a story completable within an hour). Pvp has pretty much gotten the shaft since release and pve has been terribly slow ever since DF/DP. Rather than putting all their eggs in one basket, they should be spreading it out into all forms of the game. Yes, there are people who solely do story, solely do ops, and solely do pvp, etc. But I'm willing to beg there's a much larger population that enjoy doing a mixture of all those things but are instead forced to play what BW puts out

 

I didn't mean to leave out the people that prefer the other aspects of this game like PvP, and yes I agree with you as well. Simply put, we need more group content, period. Whether new pvp game modes and maps/arenas, hell even community events. The changes they made to ops in 3.0 was needed as incentive to run the older content. As well as flashpoints, but new gear ratings for both pvp and PvE are not enough. im not an avid pvper but there needs to be more there too

[DarthZaul]

Yup but my raiding guild is already as dead as it was before 4.0 after a few weeks of activity. Raiders quit, and now were back to having 6 or 7 people then having to pug for HM. Fallout and the various other good games released (not including Battlefront lol) definitely contributed but mostly its people just don't wanna do the same old content, wipe on the same old TFB, Enrage the same old Styrak, run the same ridiculous 10 minute corpse runs in EC.

I'l probably quit the game if we don't somehow get a proper raid team back together.

 

PVP is pretty dead too. Long queue times and almost every single game is a team of terrible PVE geared players doing conquest and companion quests against another team of terrible PVE geared players doing conquest and companion quests.

Edited December 2, 2015 by DarthZaul

[Bradypan]

There was a time during 3.x where I raided six days a week across 4 groups doing TOS/Rav HM. Even after we cleared Revan HM, we raided almost every day doing sale runs on Jedi Covenant. Honestly, that era of raiding is probably over for good. There's a chance that we will never see content as interesting or as difficult as Revan again. It's certainly clear that all of the developers are being put to work on story content and subscriber rewards already. I raid, PVP, and GSF, but the only thing development time is being put into is story that essentially has no replayability. BioWare will just string us along until one day, they put us down and end our misery with the announcement that they are removing operations, warzones, and GSF from the game so that we will have all the more time to play class stories. Many of us came here because of the Star Wars IP, or story, but the main reason to stay was group content with the new friends that we made while raiding or PVPing. I still try to hold out hope for class balancing, new operations, and new warzones, but I get the sinking feeling that I will only be disappointed time and time again.

[Torvai]

Many of us came here because of the Star Wars IP, or story, but the main reason to stay was group content with the new friends that we made while raiding or PVPing. I still try to hold out hope for class balancing, new operations, and new warzones, but I get the sinking feeling that I will only be disappointed time and time again.

 

A million times this.

[Asaxor]

PvErs can now get used to the same neglect PvPers experienced for years. Never was a problem when the PvPers were the only ones to not get new endgame content, right? This is now a solo story game, you can run through the linear re-hashed KotFE corridors while your companion defeats the mobs for you. But feel free to be in denial for as long as you wish, pretty sure EA will soon resume putting significant effort into this game again, like for reals! Any moment now. Edited December 2, 2015 by Asaxor

[JouerTue]

no need for nims: only 5% of players were doing it, they throw people in HM enlighted so the metrics will confirm viability of boosted hm model, together with no 224 from Nim.

 

great success for revamped ops! : no more ops till who knows when..again numbers altered by shameles farm of EV/KP, i can wait to see when it will be a harder one.

 

pvp: it's not in our goals improving pvp atm so no more WZ, it's been a while already and all changes have controversial popularity, like queshball, arenas and pushing players in PVP thanks to conquest and now companions.

 

BUT

they made a couple of mistakes:

-too easy content had players reach level cap in two hours.

-OP companions had players grind alliance a lot more than expected, see SF solo.

-enlighted EV/KP had players grind gear i'm sure faster than expected.

 

the casuals they attracted with solo story content, have already reached cap with main and alts, they built their alliance to build an alliance and since the story has stopped, they'll just UNSUB until next chapter is released, which is terrible for making money. so NO! you have to sub for 8 months to oneshot weak mobs with HK-55 dots.

how convenient he's been taken away and Hk heroic resetted.

 

Disclamer: i'm ok with sub only content since subbing is how the game is MEANT to be played, but this is not the case, same as MMO is no place for chapter shaped solo content.

 

i don't know if this is what people want but if i had to review the game it won't get a lot of positive feedback:

 

-FP are a joke in tactical and unrewarding in HM

-SM ops are a joke, even easier than FP

-HM ops still easy and enlighted EV is just a bad idea

-no nim

-old nim drops hm tier

-PVP is abandoned by devs

-PVP has questionable balance

-where's better than cross server?

-endgame has a huge portion of solo content which doesn't help an MMO

-build an alliance for reasons

-new empire because the war between original factions could upset players who prefere a faction

Edited December 2, 2015 by JouerTue

[davidp_newton]

Yes, I'm upset. My write-up of my opinion is here.

 

The thing I'm really worried about is the fact that the percentage of the population who regularly do operations is actually quite small. The percentage of that population who clear the hardest content (NiMs + 3.0 HMs) is microscopic. So a microscopic subset of a very small percentage of the overall population are the most directly affected by this. As a member of that subset, I'm beside myself with frustration. I have no idea if it will make a difference though, when the majority of the game is probably quite happy.

 

The thing is though that people who run ops or PvP seriously have an effect on the game far, far, far beyond what their raw numbers would suggest. You are a prime example as are people like Xam Xam, SWTOR Miner, Snave, Kranitoko, Nepthen and Dulfy. Out of those people only Dulfy has not expressed disquiet in the past few days about the content drought.

 

These people and others like them are influencers in the game, guild masters, raid leaders, guide writers, theorycrafters and podcasters. Who will write the class guides when all of the high end ops players and PvP players are gone? Who will do the theorycrafting when you, Dipstik, Oofalong and Bant are gone? Who will generate proper, real hype for new features in the game and give us real news about expansions at a proper time before they are released when the dataminers no longer play? Who will generate media content about the game when the podcasters no longer play? Outside of its own, dedicated podcasts and a couple of websites this game has virtually no media exposure at all so that will mean that pretty much no one will get to hear about it. At a lower level of influence who will lead raids when raid leaders, including me in this case, are gone?

 

The game servers will be hollowed out and the heart of the community will be gone. What will Bioware be left with? A bunch of single-player gamers, most of whom will not regularly subscribe to the game and most of whom will not buy stuff on the cartel market. Bye-bye revenue, bye-bye game, bye-bye the jobs of people like Eric Musco, bye-bye Bioware Austin itself.

[VegasTheLost]

Great that you mention KBN, Dulfy and the others(sorry for not mentioning everyone)! Thing is when I looked up a guide on dulfy.net I saw in the comments that some peeps are insanely messed up in their heads. They were complaining that the guide didn't contain the gearing stats by tiers. And by stats I mean there were no mention how much alac/crit/shield/def/absorb/acc enhancement, which implant and earpiece to be used. I thought: here is a guide, a good guide written by a gamer in his/her own time to provide for the other gamers. That person put together so much info that I only have to play. No thinking, no testing what works and what not work. And people were still bashing the author. Sad and ridiculous.

 

How this connects to lack of new ops? These people who provide so much info for this community will leave at one point if they ran out of interesting gaming options. What will happen then? How these people who complain on the guide's comment section will get the info to enjoy the game and be good at it? Who will step up and do the work? Who will share?

 

I don't know if this connects to this thread, I just lost it, sorry.

[Frenesi]

The thing is though that people who run ops or PvP seriously have an effect on the game far, far, far beyond what their raw numbers would suggest. You are a prime example as are people like Xam Xam, SWTOR Miner, Snave, Kranitoko, Nepthen and Dulfy. Out of those people only Dulfy has not expressed disquiet in the past few days about the content drought.

 

These people and others like them are influencers in the game, guild masters, raid leaders, guide writers, theorycrafters and podcasters. Who will write the class guides when all of the high end ops players and PvP players are gone? Who will do the theorycrafting when you, Dipstik, Oofalong and Bant are gone? Who will generate proper, real hype for new features in the game and give us real news about expansions at a proper time before they are released when the dataminers no longer play? Who will generate media content about the game when the podcasters no longer play? Outside of its own, dedicated podcasts and a couple of websites this game has virtually no media exposure at all so that will mean that pretty much no one will get to hear about it. At a lower level of influence who will lead raids when raid leaders, including me in this case, are gone?

 

The game servers will be hollowed out and the heart of the community will be gone. What will Bioware be left with? A bunch of single-player gamers, most of whom will not regularly subscribe to the game and most of whom will not buy stuff on the cartel market. Bye-bye revenue, bye-bye game, bye-bye the jobs of people like Eric Musco, bye-bye Bioware Austin itself.

 

We are a month in, and Dulfy has guides for probably half of the specs, if not less. I don't remember if it was normal back at 3.0. but it kinda troubles me.

 

Edit: thinking about 3.0, I remember the thing that got me hyped most for it. Not new ops. Not new storyline (even if I enjoyed it). No, it was new skills, rotation changes. It made literally everything feel new, on any of my alts. Also I'm animations addict. Best part of 3.0? Penetrating blasts and the ****** feeling they brought

Edited December 2, 2015 by Frenesi

[davidp_newton]

Something that rather amused me was one of the more recent guides on Dulfy by Ironballs. What struck me about that guide was that here is a person who is sufficiently arrogant to believe their own hype and yet gets fundamental things about how the stats work just plain wrong. Look at the write-up on how crit rating works in that guide and then compare with how it actually works. When called on the nonsense ad hominem attacks were the result. The player must be good as they did finish NiM stuff at level, but it is definitely a step down in quality when compared to the 3.0 guide on the site.

 

I don't know whether there are other top scoundrel/operative DPS out there who could write such a PvE guide but haven't deigned to. However given the ops participation statistics for scoundrel and operative DPS that can be found at the Parsely website I suspect that the number of nightmare-capable operative/scoundrel DPS players is very, very small. If the community continues to shrink in size much more then this sort of thing is probably a preview of the future with respect to guide writing.

[Shwarzchild]

I'd agree that the drought is frustrating. It's even more frustrating to think that they've said they don't want a repeat of DP and DF in terms of time, yet it's exactly what's happening again. I think it's also frustrating that they're convincing themselves that it's ok to not bring out a new operation because the raiding community at large hasn't cleared Revan HM or Cortanni HM yet when that content was designed to be extremely challenging so by extension not many groups will clear it. So basing a decision that effects the entirety of the raiding community on content that they designed to only be completed by the top echelon and not the rest is just short sighted.

 

I think it'd have been a tad foolish to have gone into the live stream last night expecting this big operations announcement to drop. It was all too obvious what the announcement would center around: Sub rewards program/Chapter 10. We all know, whether we accept it or not, that any new operation won't drop until like July of next year. If even then. Around that time, probably more like Feb/ March I expect to hear something regarding raiding. If they don't even mention anything then we've got a problem that's just snowballing ever larger.

[Jerba]

I am a little confused why there is suddenly such an uproar now when we've known that we wouldn't receive an operation for a long time. Even though the Producer Letter usually gives an overview of the new content, I don't expect the next operation to come until summer so it would be too early to mention it. Nevertheless, I do find it important to let the devs know that there are operation players and that we feel neglected.

 

We are in an interesting situation because there never has been a lot of communication for operations. Class balancing, PvP, GSF and GSH, on the other hand, always received some yellow posts but with PvE, their policy was "The devs know what the players want which is why they don't need to write posts like for other contents" And surprisingly, this has always worked until now. Now, we are in a situation where we feel abandoned - either there are no operations designers left at BioWare or they have been assigned to other areas.

 

I've had the same thoughts about solo players not creating the same kind of revenue / long term attachment to the game as operations players. My guildies play this game because they have a raid group that motivates them to login each week (and run heroics and flashpoints in the off-time). They do NOT stay subscribed because BioWare releases enough content to keep them busy, or has worthy subscriber rewards. And it seems like BioWare is not noticing how big of a role guilds and communities play in keeping players tied to the game; they don't see a reason to support them.

 

But we also should not underestimate the solo players. I also constantly forget them because I don't get in touch with them. Everyone in my guild, everyone in my friends list, nearly everyone I meet in Group Finder is a group-minded player. The solo players are the players who stand around on fleet unguilded, who never write in chat and who are not willing to group up when you are in the same heroic area as they are. So it is very difficult to get an estimate for how many solo/casual players they are, they stay hidden in their strongholds or solo-mode phases.

 

I do trust BioWare that they have the numbers that show exactly how many solo players there are, and they surely didn't make a decision like this lightly. Keep in mind that this decision was made around the time DF/DP came out, when SWTOR raiding was at its heights IMO, so even then there were apparently not enough players doing the operation.

Also, I find it strange when you write in the other thread how much hours you invested into the game. To BioWare, it doesn't matter if you play 100 or 10 hours each month - you pay the same amount of money, and as long as you are happy with the game, they don't care if you are a casual or hardcore player. So the argument that endgame content lasts longer than story content doesn't mean it brings in more revenue.

 

In any case, I wanted to stress these points because I think they tend to get forgotten in those discussions. I look forward to Musco's posts today and over the next few days and am interested to read what he has to say regarding operations - if he says anything at all. My guild is very anxious about new operations content and will run out of content to do in early 2016 (my group went down to 1 raiding night per week to draw out the content as long as possible but we also are nearly full 224 now, and still have to kill the final bosses of Rav/ToS HM which should keep us busy for a few weeks). We expect to get a new operation next year and I would hate them to disappoint us.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Jerba

[KaiserTNT]

The lack of Ops is bad, but even worse is how ethically challenged EA/Bioware seems to be when it comes to communication with their customers. A lot of people who raid in this game have countless hours invested in friendships, guilds, networks, and in-game resources that we don't want to abandon because we remember the good times from past tiers. Bioware knows this, so they hype no-news streams and constantly obfuscate their long-term strategic plans in an attempt to keep us subscribing in the "sunk-cost-fallacy-based" hope that "next month things are due to be back on track".

 

Really, I'd respect whatever they were doing if they just cut all the BS and manipulation and simply said what they were planning so those of us who have sunk costs can make an informed decision to move on or not. Those plans may be "sorry guys, Ops and PvP aren't a viable business model, so it's all story and cartel market now", or maybe "No new raids until late 2016 or 2017". Fine. Either case will cost them subs from remaining raiders and PvPers in the short-term, true, but at least they'd be less scummy.

Edited December 2, 2015 by KaiserTNT

[davidp_newton]

I am a little confused why there is suddenly such an uproar now when we've known that we wouldn't receive an operation for a long time. Even though the Producer Letter usually gives an overview of the new content, I don't expect the next operation to come until summer so it would be too early to mention it. Nevertheless, I do find it important to let the devs know that there are operation players and that we feel neglected.

 

There is uproar now because this has essentially set out what is going to happen for the first half of next year, perhaps for a bit longer and it has got no mention of proper new multiplayer MMO content at all. There was not even a sniff of anything new, just smoke and mirrors. Similar to the post about no new ops at the start of KotFE which was made earlier this year it has finally confirmed what a lot of people feared to be the case but hoped would not be the case.

 

The last straw has happened and people can no longer comfort themselves with hope for the future. I suspect that we might now see a mass exodus of much of the remains of the raiding community. The blip earlier this year when it was announced that there never would be any more nightmare mode operations, leading to the remains of the progression raiding community leaving can be seen if you look at TORStatus. Server populations have never recovered from that exodus, despite many claiming that raiders are a very small percentage of players. Even if they are a small percentage in terms of numbers, in terms of impact on the community and game time played they are disproportionate in their activity. If this does happen people are going to find fleets very empty indeed in comparison even to what they became used to over the summer.

[Jadescythe]

There is uproar now because this has essentially set out what is going to happen for the first half of next year, perhaps for a bit longer and it has got no mention of proper new multiplayer MMO content at all. There was not even a sniff of anything new, just smoke and mirrors. Similar to the post about no new ops at the start of KotFE which was made earlier this year it has finally confirmed what a lot of people feared to be the case but hoped would not be the case.

 

The last straw has happened and people can no longer comfort themselves with hope for the future. I suspect that we might now see a mass exodus of much of the remains of the raiding community. The blip earlier this year when it was announced that there never would be any more nightmare mode operations, leading to the remains of the progression raiding community leaving can be seen if you look at TORStatus. Server populations have never recovered from that exodus, despite many claiming that raiders are a very small percentage of players. Even if they are a small percentage in terms of numbers, in terms of impact on the community and game time played they are disproportionate in their activity. If this does happen people are going to find fleets very empty indeed in comparison even to what they became used to over the summer.

 

Apologies, but this was known before KotFE came out. They made it very clear that no new Ops were going to be started until at least the end of 2015 and that development cycle isn't exactly 2-3 months. I would love to see new Operation content, but the changes to the existing Ops content will be better long term. It's so nice to be able to run something different every week rather than grind through the same 2 Ops over and over for a full development cycle.

 

It's at least made the wait on new content better for me. As to guilds leaving, that has more to do with raiding style. Hardcore groups running a group 3-4 days a week that can clear all the HM stuff easily certainly have reason to leave. But those guilds always have a reason to leave as they consume the content so fast. Groups running 2 days a week that can easily clear EV/KP, but have more trouble with things like Styrak, TFB (the fight, not the op), Rav and ToS have a lot of content to keep their time spent feeling fresh.

 

The impact will be the players that write the guides, do the math on gear, etc. will be leaving and hurting the more casual raiders (the larger population of raiders). But this still will not impact the majority of the population that don't need an ideal rotation and will never have anything other than comm gear.

[TripleMe]

The lack of content isn't new, it has been this way since at least a 2 years. Ops content cadence has been screwed up ever since DF / DP has been released.

 

You are looking at the game wrong. This game is no longer an MMO. Its basically a SRPG with optional group content and monthly DLCs. Each DLC costs 15 USD, you get a discount if you buy the DLCs together. That is the revenue model BW has chosen, and hence you find all these *subscriber rewards* designed to make to forego the discount.

 

Now, given this model, why are you still subscribed to the game? You can do everything the game has without a sub (except ranked PvP). You need a couple of unlocks and a small supply of ops passes.

 

For 15 USD dlcs, I would expect a hell lot more of content that what BW is providing in their chapters.

[Bradypan]

Now, given this model, why are you still subscribed to the game? You can do everything the game has without a sub (except ranked PvP). You need a couple of unlocks and a small supply of ops passes.

 

You know, that's a really good question o.o Right now I'm sitting on enough money to buy a few years worth of ops passes and I haven't done ranked PVP since S3.

[DarthScruffy]

The thing is though that people who run ops or PvP seriously have an effect on the game far, far, far beyond what their raw numbers would suggest. You are a prime example as are people like Xam Xam, SWTOR Miner, Snave, Kranitoko, Nepthen and Dulfy. Out of those people only Dulfy has not expressed disquiet in the past few days about the content drought.

 

These people and others like them are influencers in the game, guild masters, raid leaders, guide writers, theorycrafters and podcasters. Who will write the class guides when all of the high end ops players and PvP players are gone? Who will do the theorycrafting when you, Dipstik, Oofalong and Bant are gone? Who will generate proper, real hype for new features in the game and give us real news about expansions at a proper time before they are released when the dataminers no longer play? Who will generate media content about the game when the podcasters no longer play? Outside of its own, dedicated podcasts and a couple of websites this game has virtually no media exposure at all so that will mean that pretty much no one will get to hear about it. At a lower level of influence who will lead raids when raid leaders, including me in this case, are gone?

 

The game servers will be hollowed out and the heart of the community will be gone. What will Bioware be left with? A bunch of single-player gamers, most of whom will not regularly subscribe to the game and most of whom will not buy stuff on the cartel market. Bye-bye revenue, bye-bye game, bye-bye the jobs of people like Eric Musco, bye-bye Bioware Austin itself.

 

There's more institutional memory in the game than you are giving credit for right now. It's not "Oh noes! We're doomed!" I understand why people want to put that out, but the nature of institutions is that they move on and adapt.

[davidp_newton]

There's more institutional memory in the game than you are giving credit for right now. It's not "Oh noes! We're doomed!" I understand why people want to put that out, but the nature of institutions is that they move on and adapt.

 

Oh really is there? I am not talking about part of a community disappearing, leaving others behind who will, as you imply, step up and take over. I am talking about essentially the whole of a community disappearing. We have already had it with the progression raiders. No one has stepped up to take the place of the former progression raiders in this game because there are essentially no people left in the game who are both that good as players and that motivated. Furthermore there is no content in the game which promotes the formation of new progression raiding teams.

 

What I am suggesting is that this may well happen to the wider PvE community as a whole if Bioware don't pull their finger out. We will also then be in the situation of no more content in the game promoting further multiplayer PvE, so also no further opportunities for a new PvE community to emerge. As I intimated earlier in this thread I am a raid leader in my guild, but I would not pretend to know enough about the game to do a guide to a class or do theorycrafting. Those are extremely specialised skills which require a detailed knowledge of game mechanics and for class guides a particular class. If we are left with single player people who never do anything more difficult than the story missions and then cry when the slightest scintilla of difficulty is introduced into the game who will have the skills or motivation to do theorycrafting or podcasts or class guides? No one. That is the extent of the destruction of the PvE community that I am suggesting. That is what I believe will happen unless Bioware does something very quickly to stop it.

 

What is worse is that I do not believe that Bioware will do something to stop it. I believe that Bioware has misunderstood the financial and social situation of its game and does not realise that it will lose the glue which holds the community together if it continues down its current path.

[Halinalle]

There's still a lot ops. I have never done operation before because people don't allow me to join the groups because "undergeared". Edited December 3, 2015 by Halinalle