scammer got me

[Qouivandes]

... .

 

to be honest, the prevalence of folks looking to make a fast profit has been around since the first transaction happened between whomever. if the seller had no intention of listing something for anything other than X and made a mistake listing it wrong as Y, then he is less culpable than the person who saw Y instead of X and bought it. in fact, the buyer could have thought he was making a great purchase off an item and the seller was stupid for listing it at Y instead of X. however, if the seller listed an item for Y with the full intention of trying to get someone to see it as X, then the intent to deceive a buyer rises dramatically. however, if the buyer sees X without looking to ensure it really does say X and not Y, then the buyer shares in culpability.

 

in both of these, the buyer listed a item for a different amount: one by error and one on purpose. for both, the buyer will either get the profit or the loss. for both, you can easily start to construct multiple scenarios about knowledge, intent, perception, and possession. without knowing the true intention of the seller it is difficult to assign a level of intent that would either land on deception or error. same for the buyer. he may not have known he was getting a great deal because the seller messed up. or he might. (i once forgot to add the last 0 to a list price of 500g and sold an item for 50g. my fault, but that still doesnt tell me if the buyer just saw a low price or a sucker listing price.

 

this is pretty much why we have courts of law. So that we can look at what happened, weigh it against evidence, and determine who it should be judged. we only know the buyers events and not the sellers so there is really no way to accurately make a judgement either way.

 

for the record, though, i have run across too many folks that just seem to enjoy trying to get away with as much as they can at the expense of others. personally, i find anyone attempting to maliciously deceive someone--or intentionally listing an item in the hopes someone will just rush through and buy--as a parasite in the gaming community (and society at large). sure, shift full culpability to the person buying the item..that is really easy to do, but all that really does is absolve the seller and justifies the action.

 

had this been reversed in that the seller listed low by accident (see my example) for several items; a buyer scooping the items up for, perhaps, 1/4 of what they were worth; and the seller posting a thread how he messed up...folks would be all over him about checking prices, etc and that it was his own fault.

 

my advice:

Sellers: double check your listings.

Sellers: if your intent is to deceive, i only wish upon your toons pixelated space herpes.

Buyers: double check those listed prices.

Buyers: if you see a super low price...you dont know if it was done on accident or on purpose. buy it. if you want, ask them. even offer to COD back to them fro the list price or LP=10%. up to you.

 

everyone makes mistakes. its how we deal with them determines what we learn.

[JacksonMo]

And here we go with the "someone who does not know the definition of the word 'scam'" mentality.

 

But I suspect the OP has achieved his goal since the odds are strong it's just a troll post.

 

There are trolls about, but not the OP...

[Theeko]

It's not only players that got shammed in these types of purchases, it was also EA as well because when the CM first came out no one even knew there would be a collection system at all. I used about 5 Revan masks before the collection system came in and I regretted it then and now too as well, others have used tons of duplicates as well. So yeah I tend to only buy and use 1 of each item now, lol.

[TUXs]

The situation is not as cut and dry as you want to make it.

 

Prove that the person had intended to scam them out of money.

 

In court you have to prove the intention of the person setting the price was to scam someone and sometimes that is not as easy as you want to make it sound.

 

The other side can also show that if the price is in writing for all to see and the person brought said item, the person purchasing the item knew what the price was.

 

A price that is set in writing does not meet that burden of proof needed in a court of law. If you have proof that the price was changed prior to the person coming in to purchase something or in the case of an hurricane, tornado and likes and the price was changed because of that, then yes a person could be convicted in Court.

This isn't a court of law thank God...this is a video game that relies on customers. Bioware is the only policing agent we have and they have a responsibility to ensure we are free from scammers.

 

There's no proof needed, just reasonable suspicion, which is all Bioware needs to reverse the transaction and refund a players credits. Intent is easy to assume in this situation...far easier than you're making it seem.

[Infernixx]

This isn't a court of law thank God...this is a video game that relies on customers. Bioware is the only policing agent we have and they have a responsibility to ensure we are free from scammers.

 

There's no proof needed, just reasonable suspicion, which is all Bioware needs to reverse the transaction and refund a players credits. Intent is easy to assume in this situation...far easier than you're making it seem.

 

Let's assume they did that...

 

Where do you draw the line? Because what you're doing there is creating price controls. You're now playing in a game where if you charge too much for something, the buyer can cry about it later and get BW to undo the transaction. There's now a defacto price ceiling on 'everything.' Who decides what's too much? 'How' do you decide that? Because you and I both know that it won't just be applied to these obvious cases of people not paying enough attention to what they're doing. It'll be applied to any and every case where the buyer suddenly decides that he shouldn't have made that purchase because it was too expensive.

 

What do you do if the seller's already spent the credits on something else? Undo 'that' transaction and take money from the 3rd party who has no idea what's going on and why are his credits gone and why does he have that item back again? What if 'he' has already spent those credits on an item from a 4th party?

 

Undoing transactions would have to be an immediate thing...within that first hour...or you risk screwing up untold number of players. And how likely is that to happen? Does it look as if BW has the ability or desire to devote numerous employees to just sit there and sort through 'buyers remorse' tickets?

[ScarletBlaze]

I use the GTN daily since I am a crafter and I have yet to pay more than I planned on paying but I have precautions in place to help me with that. There is a pop up that asks you are you sure you want to buy this for xx amount. Sure, it may be an inconvenience to have to do it every time you purchase something but there are tools that help you if you want to use said tools. I have used them since launch. Edited November 30, 2015 by ScarletBlaze

[Reno_Tarshil]

The information for your purchasing is right there clear as day, fault is on the buyer as the game lets anyone sell anything for any price they deem. I mean there's even a confirmation purchase button.

[MasterSpatula]

Certainly, caveat emptor applies here, but caveat emptor was never mean to absolve the seller of responsibility. This was clearly a deceptive business practice. The OP never shirked his own responsibility for his carelessness, but to claim he bears all responsibility and the seller bears none is, well, sociopathy.

[TUXs]

Let's assume they did that...

 

Where do you draw the line? Because what you're doing there is creating price controls.

That's not true at all. It simply takes a tiny amount of common sense, nothing more.

 

We're talking about items going for 1000x's the "normal" rate, not paying 8mil for a speeder that's then listed for 6 a day later.

[Infernixx]

Certainly, caveat emptor applies here, but caveat emptor was never mean to absolve the seller of responsibility. This was clearly a deceptive business practice. The OP never shirked his own responsibility for his carelessness, but to claim he bears all responsibility and the seller bears none is, well, sociopathy.

 

How so? There was no deception perpetrated. The price was listed, plain as day, and the game even asked the player AGAIN if he wanted to by the overpriced crap and he clicked YES, yes he did want that overpriced crap, now give it to him now.

 

The buyer simply didn't pay attention. Where I come from, we call that the 'Stupid Tax.' A tax on being stupid.

[Lord_Sleepy]

^ Like I said, you don't want to be bothered by the facts, you've got your mind made up.

 

But you are wrong, you're ignoring the deception, and that's fine, you are free to do that.

 

Where is the deception, posting something for an unreasonably high price isn't deception, it is usually poor business but not deception. the item was what it said it was, the price he agreed to was still the same price he paid. I don't see a deception there.

[Lord_Sleepy]

That's not true at all. It simply takes a tiny amount of common sense, nothing more.

 

We're talking about items going for 1000x's the "normal" rate, not paying 8mil for a speeder that's then listed for 6 a day later.

 

But, with a little common sense he would have looked at the price and decided it was way to high and not bought it.

[UTlNNl]

Bill Gates goes to grocery store. Bill Gates inspects potatoes. Potatoes listed in order of price: low-to-high.

 

First Potato: $1.08

Second Potato: $1.08

Third Potato: $1.09

Fourth Potato: $1,090,000.09

 

Bill Gates picks up Fourth Potato, proceeds to checkout.

Cashier asks: "Are you REALLY SURE you wanna buy Fourth Potato?"

Bill hastily interrupts: "YES, ALREADY"

 

Bill swipes card and purchases potato. Transaction approved as Bill has necessary funds in account.

 

Bill comes home. Inspects bank account. Balance is $1,089,999.01 lower than expected. Bill blames the label-man.

Edited November 30, 2015 by UTlNNl

[DataBeaver]

Certainly would be nice if Bioware implemented a dialog that says "This item is priced at more than twice the cheapest available price. Are you sure you want to buy it?" I bet that would put a stop to most of these GTN con artists.

[Sydth]

kinda glad i saw this. I never knew there were decimals in this game. But, i see them now!

[jamyz]

Bill Gates goes to grocery store. Bill Gates inspects potatoes. Potatoes listed in order of price: low-to-high.

 

First Potato: $1.08

Second Potato: $1.08

Third Potato: $1.09

Fourth Potato: $1,090,000.09

 

Bill Gates picks up Fourth Potato, proceeds to checkout.

Cashier asks: "Are you REALLY SURE you wanna buy Fourth Potato?"

Bill hastily interrupts: "YES, ALREADY"

 

Bill swipes card and purchases potato. Transaction approved as Bill has necessary funds in account.

 

Bill comes home. Inspects back account. Balance is $1,089,999.01 lower than expected. Bill blames the label-man.

 

I could had not said that better. Good one

[Joesixxpack]

Certainly, caveat emptor applies here, but caveat emptor was never mean to absolve the seller of responsibility. This was clearly a deceptive business practice. The OP never shirked his own responsibility for his carelessness, but to claim he bears all responsibility and the seller bears none is, well, sociopathy.

 

Yeah the seller's an ***hole. But before we get to any legal or psych tests let's run it by the laugh test.

 

Sleazy sellers gonna sleaze. BW's not much for active help with other things and doesn't allow name 'n shame. We have a check to confirm purchase. OP goofed up, just like I did once buying a short stack of crap mats for 5,000,000. An issue is that the price is posted plain as day. Whether or not we fall for it is entirely up to us, and we have every bit of visibility and control needed.

[TUXs]

But, with a little common sense he would have looked at the price and decided it was way to high and not bought it.

I don't disagree...but people make mistakes, and these mistakes are amplified by the fact that the only place in the entire game where a fractional currency exists, is the GTN. That's the biggest flaw with the GTN...decimals. Bioware needs to remove them.

[Rankyn]

Bill Gates goes to grocery store. Bill Gates inspects potatoes. Potatoes listed in order of price: low-to-high.

 

First Potato: $1.08

Second Potato: $1.08

Third Potato: $1.09

Fourth Potato: $1,090,000.09

 

Bill Gates picks up Fourth Potato, proceeds to checkout.

Cashier asks: "Are you REALLY SURE you wanna buy Fourth Potato?"

Bill hastily interrupts: "YES, ALREADY"

 

Bill swipes card and purchases potato. Transaction approved as Bill has necessary funds in account.

 

Bill comes home. Inspects bank account. Balance is $1,089,999.01 lower than expected. Bill blames the label-man.

Bill eats potato and declares it the best potato he's ever eaten.

[jstankaroslo]

to be honest, the prevalence of folks looking to make a fast profit has been around since the first transaction happened between whomever. if the seller had no intention of listing something for anything other than X and made a mistake listing it wrong as Y, then he is less culpable than the person who saw Y instead of X and bought it. in fact, the buyer could have thought he was making a great purchase off an item and the seller was stupid for listing it at Y instead of X. however, if the seller listed an item for Y with the full intention of trying to get someone to see it as X, then the intent to deceive a buyer rises dramatically. however, if the buyer sees X without looking to ensure it really does say X and not Y, then the buyer shares in culpability.

 

in both of these, the buyer listed a item for a different amount: one by error and one on purpose. for both, the buyer will either get the profit or the loss. for both, you can easily start to construct multiple scenarios about knowledge, intent, perception, and possession. without knowing the true intention of the seller it is difficult to assign a level of intent that would either land on deception or error. same for the buyer. he may not have known he was getting a great deal because the seller messed up. or he might. (i once forgot to add the last 0 to a list price of 500g and sold an item for 50g. my fault, but that still doesnt tell me if the buyer just saw a low price or a sucker listing price.

 

this is pretty much why we have courts of law. So that we can look at what happened, weigh it against evidence, and determine who it should be judged. we only know the buyers events and not the sellers so there is really no way to accurately make a judgement either way.

 

for the record, though, i have run across too many folks that just seem to enjoy trying to get away with as much as they can at the expense of others. personally, i find anyone attempting to maliciously deceive someone--or intentionally listing an item in the hopes someone will just rush through and buy--as a parasite in the gaming community (and society at large). sure, shift full culpability to the person buying the item..that is really easy to do, but all that really does is absolve the seller and justifies the action.

 

had this been reversed in that the seller listed low by accident (see my example) for several items; a buyer scooping the items up for, perhaps, 1/4 of what they were worth; and the seller posting a thread how he messed up...folks would be all over him about checking prices, etc and that it was his own fault.

 

my advice:

Sellers: double check your listings.

Sellers: if your intent is to deceive, i only wish upon your toons pixelated space herpes.

Buyers: double check those listed prices.

Buyers: if you see a super low price...you dont know if it was done on accident or on purpose. buy it. if you want, ask them. even offer to COD back to them fro the list price or LP=10%. up to you.

 

everyone makes mistakes. its how we deal with them determines what we learn.

 

thank you for that. pretty much sums up my thoughts on this

[JacksonMo]

If I had the ability to look at people's GTN sales, I would love to know how many of you blaming the OP for his carelessness have been selling green mats and other assorted everyday items for millions of credits each.

[TUXs]

Bill Gates goes to grocery store. Bill Gates inspects potatoes. Potatoes listed in order of price: low-to-high.

 

First Potato: $1.08

Second Potato: $1.08

Third Potato: $1.09

Fourth Potato: $1,090,000.09

 

Bill Gates picks up Fourth Potato, proceeds to checkout.

Cashier asks: "Are you REALLY SURE you wanna buy Fourth Potato?"

Bill hastily interrupts: "YES, ALREADY"

 

Bill swipes card and purchases potato. Transaction approved as Bill has necessary funds in account.

 

Bill comes home. Inspects bank account. Balance is $1,089,999.01 lower than expected. Bill blames the label-man.

That's not how the GTN works though. There's no fractional currency, nor can anyone list something for fractional currency. The only place it exists is on the GTN when comparing multiple units, not singular items.

[jstankaroslo]

This isn't a court of law thank God...this is a video game that relies on customers. Bioware is the only policing agent we have and they have a responsibility to ensure we are free from scammers.

 

There's no proof needed, just reasonable suspicion, which is all Bioware needs to reverse the transaction and refund a players credits. Intent is easy to assume in this situation...far easier than you're making it seem.

 

no need to reverse it. As I wrote -this isnt the end of the world for me. The same day I discovered I sold some things I sell for 1/10 of what I list them. Well, it wasn't my day. (I was not drunk )

All I'm thinking now is that there are people who do this deceiving pricing for a reason. They probably, just my assumption, are credit sellers. Or they enjoy someone's misfortune. Or anything else.

 

Thing is, they spoil part of the game. Buying and selling is entertaining in SWTOR,. It also helps in other aspects of the game (buying outfits to look good, buying mods to be strong etc).

These people spoil part of this game. They are no different than a bunch of gankers who ambush lowbies. Or other parasites that (I think) we all would rather get rid off this game.

 

Defending them is IMO foolish. Doesn't matter if it is a scam or not. I call it a scam, others might not. It might be deemed a scam under one law system, while in another country it might not. That does not matter, really.

 

The decimals on GTN allow such practices. I can't find any positive reason for decimals to exist. They should be removed. That's all.

Edited November 30, 2015 by jstankaroslo

[iacon]

Putting the definition war on the side since it is not relevant to the issue at hand, as with anything that deals with a large volume of unknown people, one has to assume that there is a percentage of those that fall into the scummy range or ethically questionable to use a more neutral phrase.

 

What the actual percentage is unknown, but it does exist. That means that one cannot go shopping on the GTN blindly and blissfully ignorant of the potential pitfalls. To do so opens oneself up to falling for the overpriced trap. Would it be nice if there were no ethically challenged people selling stuff? Sure, but that is wishful thinking and not reality.

 

Since there is very likely nothing on the horizon to change how the GTN functions it is incumbent on the buyer to use the available tools and avoid those pitfalls. With the proper attention paid these pitfalls are 100% avoidable. Yes, it does suck if it does happen, but the only thing within our control is attention to detail.

Edited November 30, 2015 by iacon

[Lord_Sleepy]

I don't disagree...but people make mistakes, and these mistakes are amplified by the fact that the only place in the entire game where a fractional currency exists, is the GTN. That's the biggest flaw with the GTN...decimals. Bioware needs to remove them.

 

but isn't that only in the price per unit area section? because I never sold a single item for a price with a decimal, only stacks telling the price per unit.