Character customized armor cosmetic why is there a charge for each change? :confused:

[Winter-Storm]

For the life of me there is no reason to charge for each addition and removal of customized armor Cosmetic.. There is not a single advantage or disadvantage to wearing a Cosmetic??? It adds to the game play why are you making it difficult for no reason? It just for show nothing more..

[Tessie]

I'd prefer they charge for cosmetic items. Otherwise people would complain about the game being pay to win. They do give subscribers a discount on changing appearance items.

[MoyaSP]

it is a credit sink, all MMOs need them and this one doesn't have enough of them

[DarthDymond]

Any game with an active economy that has the potential to generate unlimited currency (in this case the limitless amount of credits that can be generated from killing respawning mobs and completing repeatable missions) also needs sufficient 'currency sinks' in order to prevent ludicrous inflation.

 

What form these credit sinks take are pretty arbitrary - having one of them be based on a purely cosmetic system makes as much sense as the ones that are in place for convenience systems (taxi speeder travel), the crafting system (the credit cost for crew skill missions), etc.

Edited November 28, 2015 by DarthDymond

[MillionsKNives]

Is a couple thousand credits per piece really that taxing for you?

[Winter-Storm]

Is a couple thousand credits per piece really that taxing for you?

 

Its the only mmo that charges for each change per tab. I can see charging for another cosmetic tab but each piece is kinda o-O

[Ghisallo]

For the life of me there is no reason to charge for each addition and removal of customized armor Cosmetic.. There is not a single advantage or disadvantage to wearing a Cosmetic??? It adds to the game play why are you making it difficult for no reason? It just for show nothing more..

 

It's called a credit sink. They practically throw money at you in the game and if you play the GTN it can get even crazier. I am sitting on over 20 million credits now and I do not craft or run OPs every night etc. The inflation in this game would make Zimbabwe's economy look stable.

 

Now this wasn't the case before. You had to pay (what amounted to more) to remove armor and weapon mods to put into appearance pieces and you used to have to pay for training abilities as well. Without this there would be no real sinks in the game, since whether a bug or intended, you no longer need pay for repairs.

[Cakellene]

Credit sinks need to die in a fire.

[MillionsKNives]

Credit sinks need to die in a fire.

 

Because unchecked inflation is where it's at these days?

[Ghisallo]

Because unchecked inflation is where it's at these days?

 

This I would NOT want to be a player coming to this game new and need to use the GTN for stuff. The amount stuff costs is just crazy. Between inflation and the market players, who treat buying low and selling high as a minj-game, you have stuff selling for millions. Get rid of credit sinks and yes, the new guy saves money but so does that "market player" and the prices soa even higher. So if your issue with it is you feel you dont have enough to pay for suff on the GTN you don't actually help anything.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Ghisallo

[ivanhedgehog]

Any game with an active economy that has the potential to generate unlimited currency (in this case the limitless amount of credits that can be generated from killing respawning mobs and completing repeatable missions) also needs sufficient 'currency sinks' in order to prevent ludicrous inflation.

 

What form these credit sinks take are pretty arbitrary - having one of them be based on a purely cosmetic system makes as much sense as the ones that are in place for convenience systems (taxi speeder travel), the crafting system (the credit cost for crew skill missions), etc.

they butchered credit drops from completed mobs, chests drop garbage. what they need to do is have any account over 50 million degenerate and lose x amount of credits every week. not too much , just enough to trim the overall amount of credits.

[Ghisallo]

they butchered credit drops from completed mobs, chests drop garbage. what they need to do is have any account over 50 million degenerate and lose x amount of credits every week. not too much , just enough to trim the overall amount of credits.

 

I would say, if you were going to do that 50 million is actually way too high, I would say you need something progressive. You start at say 5 million with an X% "tax", then every 5 million thereafter its X+Y%. The problem is there are ways to "off shore" the money. Guild holds, f2p accounts you can mail money to etc. Even if you applied the account tax to the guild holds, there really is no limit to the number of f2p accounts you can make so you it is bypassable.

 

The only answer is credit sinks.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

they butchered credit drops from completed mobs, chests drop garbage. what they need to do is have any account over 50 million degenerate and lose x amount of credits every week. not too much , just enough to trim the overall amount of credits.

 

Never going to happen.

 

Remember, whilst some of us have made hundreds of millions over the years, from crafting, GTN play etc, the biggest source of income now for any player is converting real life money into credits via the CM.

 

Start taxing people in an arbitrary way, just for being credit rich and the impact on their own CM sales would be catastrophic for them.

 

I do agree that the game has way too few credit sinks however. But, they have been removed to make the game more casual friendly, in the same way as you don't even need to explore planets now to find travel points etc.

 

I am all for adding back in credit sinks for mod removal etc, increasing GTN sales tax, charging more for cosmetic tabs etc, there are so many things they could charge us more for, and the biggest of all being, add back in skill purchase costs.

Edited November 30, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Ghisallo]

Never going to happen.

 

Remember, whilst some of us have made hundreds of millions over the years, from crafting, GTN play etc, the biggest source of income now for any player is converting real life money into credits via the CM.

 

Start taxing people in an arbitrary way, just for being credit rich and the impact on their own CM sales would be catastrophic for them.

 

I do agree that the game has way too few credit sinks however. But, they have been removed to make the game more casual friendly, in the same way as you don't even need to explore planets now to find travel points etc.

 

I am all for adding back in credit sinks for mod removal etc, increasing GTN sales tax, charging more for cosmetic tabs etc, there are so many things they could charge us more for, and the biggest of all being, add back in skill purchase costs.

 

What's interesting is that the lack of credit sinks, to make the game casual friendly, ironically hurts casuals because if they don't do runs just for credits, also craft or pony up that CC for the CM stuff to then sell on the GTN, they usually find themselves not being able to buy the better crafted items, mounts, CM armor etc.

 

In essence they end up being stuck in a subsistence economy where they make enough to get what they need but often find themselves trapped there, even without the credit sinks, because the lack of those same sinks helps to drive inflation.

[znihilist]

Never going to happen.

 

Remember, whilst some of us have made hundreds of millions over the years, from crafting, GTN play etc, the biggest source of income now for any player is converting real life money into credits via the CM.

 

Start taxing people in an arbitrary way, just for being credit rich and the impact on their own CM sales would be catastrophic for them.

 

I do agree that the game has way too few credit sinks however. But, they have been removed to make the game more casual friendly, in the same way as you don't even need to explore planets now to find travel points etc.

 

I am all for adding back in credit sinks for mod removal etc, increasing GTN sales tax, charging more for cosmetic tabs etc, there are so many things they could charge us more for, and the biggest of all being, add back in skill purchase costs.

 

Don't forget the slot machine, and how it was nerfed! That was a perfect credit sink! However, increasing GTN sales tax will only drive people off it. They need to add more money sinks to the game.

[Ghisallo]

Don't forget the slot machine, and how it was nerfed! That was a perfect credit sink! However, increasing GTN sales tax will only drive people off it. They need to add more money sinks to the game.

 

Credit sinks that bork other portions of the in game economy are not good ideas...hence the nerf to the slot machines. That said they need to at a minimum reinstate the repair costs. I would also suggest increasing the charge of transportation, maybe even put a cost on emergency transport abilities.

 

On a side note...I find it interesting how ANGRY people got over the nerf to the slot machine when they were only losing virtual currency but many of the people who complained have NO problem gambling with real money on the CM that has its own questionable drop rate for valuable items.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Ghisallo

[znihilist]

Credit sinks that bork other portions of the in game economy are not good ideas...hence the nerf to the slot machines. That said they need to at a minimum reinstate the repair costs. I would also suggest increasing the charge of transportation, maybe even put a cost on emergency transport abilities.

 

On a side note...I find it interesting how ANGRY people got over the nerf to the slot machine when they were only losing virtual currency but many of the people who complained have NO problem gambling with real money on the CM that has its own questionable drop rate for valuable items.

 

I am not going into this discussion again, but it wasn't borking anything, there was ample of evidence and reasons given back then to why it wasn't.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

What's interesting is that the lack of credit sinks, to make the game casual friendly, ironically hurts casuals because if they don't do runs just for credits, also craft or pony up that CC for the CM stuff to then sell on the GTN, they usually find themselves not being able to buy the better crafted items, mounts, CM armor etc.

 

In essence they end up being stuck in a subsistence economy where they make enough to get what they need but often find themselves trapped there, even without the credit sinks, because the lack of those same sinks helps to drive inflation.

 

Surely the very essence of "being a casual" means that they don't care or want or crave for those multi million credit items?

 

They do not need top of the range hilts, barrels, implants etc to complete any of the content they run, it can all be completed with items they get from simply playing the game.

 

No skill costs, a broken repair issue currently, the game has never been cheaper to play for someone solely interested in the story game.

 

However, the crux of the matter is then the casual player, who secretly wants to be more than a casual player, who wants the luxury items and becomes unhappy when he cannot afford them, and that the game does indeed have a 2 tier economy for the haves and have nots.

 

The game has never been simpler and easier than it is now, it has never been easier to make sufficient credits just from running your missions, in order to subsist. I am not sure what he answer is, new players have to start somewhere, essentially at the bottom of the heap, nowadays, if they want to immediately start making millions of credits from day one, there is only one solution, the CM, and frankly I believe that is exactly the way BW want it..

[Eksenia]

The CM doesn't create money out of thin air, since it doesn't create more credits. It does however increase supply of wares which actually leads to price deflation.

 

Credit sinks are a necessary evil because the central bank credit creation - that is quest rewards, looted credits and vendor sales - is not adjusted daily but rather once in a blue moon, which practically means that the credit creation is unlimited and only reliant on time spent.

 

Any game that has a few years will have had experienced price inflation because the paradigm is that with new levels prices and cash rewards are increased, as well as people having time to level alts with which to farm dailies et cetera. This does of course mean that a new player might find it hard to purchase things on GTN initially, but that's just the way it is.

 

All in all, credit creation is perhaps a tad too large atm (heroic weeklies!), but it has an upside of being easy available to new players. And if you're looking for the real money, the art of business is being a good middle man; ie. buying and selling larger quantities of stuff to other people and profiting from the margins.

Myself I run gathering on several alts and just sell the mats, it consumes literally only minutes per day and I still make more money than I can spend.

 

Given the influx of easy and plentiful credits, we need credit destruction across the board, with outfit tab being a smart choice because everybody does it, rather than just, say, upping the price of modding armor because it will mainly only hurt raiders who move up the gear ladder fast.

[Ghisallo]

Surely the very essence of "being a casual" means that they don't care or want or crave for those multi million credit items?

 

They do not need top of the range hilts, barrels, implants etc to complete any of the content they run, it can all be completed with items they get from simply playing the game.

 

No skill costs, a broken repair issue currently, the game has never been cheaper to play for someone solely interested in the story game.

 

However, the crux of the matter is then the casual player, who secretly wants to be more than a casual player, who wants the luxury items and becomes unhappy when he cannot afford them, and that the game does indeed have a 2 tier economy for the haves and have nots.

 

The game has never been simpler and easier than it is now, it has never been easier to make sufficient credits just from running your missions, in order to subsist. I am not sure what he answer is, new players have to start somewhere, essentially at the bottom of the heap, nowadays, if they want to immediately start making millions of credits from day one, there is only one solution, the CM, and frankly I believe that is exactly the way BW want it..

 

For somethings...yes. Would they be buying a 216 focus? Likely not. But would they want that set of armor they think looks AWESOME for appearance? Yes sir. One of my favorites for Jedi Consulate is the Ajunta Pall and that costs well into the millions to get. The same goes for that cool speeder. I am sure more than a few casual troopers want that tank with the flourish that has the cannons firing. "Fluff" items like these are often seen by casuals as items they should have equal access to regardless of their chosen playstyle.

 

If SWTOR didn't have gear that says "216" and "220" in it, which anyone could buy with crystals you can get soloing, many would complain about "only hardcore raiders" getting cool gear and in the recent threads about companions some people have complained about only hardcore players being able to see some content.

 

There is a belief among many casual players that these games should be what I sometimes refer to as a "socialist utopia." When they play these games they want to get away from the fact that maybe this person they knew just bought a house and they either still live at home or have an apartment with a roommate or that their car burns oil like an old lamp where this other person they know just bought a new car or their clothes are from Walmart and that person's are from Bloomingdale's. As such when they play the game they don't want things out of their reach even if that reason, in a game like this has to do almost entirely with their choices.

 

I agree with you btw on most of what you said...just pointing out the dynamics involved.

[Ghisallo]

The CM doesn't create money out of thin air, since it doesn't create more credits. It does however increase supply of wares which actually leads to price deflation.

 

Credit sinks are a necessary evil because the central bank credit creation - that is quest rewards, looted credits and vendor sales - is not adjusted daily but rather once in a blue moon, which practically means that the credit creation is unlimited and only reliant on time spent.

 

Any game that has a few years will have had experienced price inflation because the paradigm is that with new levels prices and cash rewards are increased, as well as people having time to level alts with which to farm dailies et cetera. This does of course mean that a new player might find it hard to purchase things on GTN initially, but that's just the way it is.

 

All in all, credit creation is perhaps a tad too large atm (heroic weeklies!), but it has an upside of being easy available to new players. And if you're looking for the real money, the art of business is being a good middle man; ie. buying and selling larger quantities of stuff to other people and profiting from the margins.

Myself I run gathering on several alts and just sell the mats, it consumes literally only minutes per day and I still make more money than I can spend.

 

Given the influx of easy and plentiful credits, we need credit destruction across the board, with outfit tab being a smart choice because everybody does it, rather than just, say, upping the price of modding armor because it will mainly only hurt raiders who move up the gear ladder fast.

 

I don't think anyone was saying that the CM creates money...only that it is there where we see the most obvious signs of inflation.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

I don't think anyone was saying that the CM creates money...only that it is there where we see the most obvious signs of inflation.

 

I agree with your previous reply wholeheartedly. The fluff items are by far the most sought after items in the game really, and they can be desired by casual and hardcore gamers alike.

 

As I said, I think that is exactly how BW want it. If people really want the said items, they will either buy some CCs and take a shot in the pack lottery, or simply buy packs to sell and then buy from the GTN. Either way, BW is happy, someone, somewhere has paid RL money for the goods.

 

Again, though, I do maintain that to just play the game, they have all they need, not necessarily want.

[Ghisallo]

I agree with your previous reply wholeheartedly. The fluff items are by far the most sought after items in the game really, and they can be desired by casual and hardcore gamers alike.

 

As I said, I think that is exactly how BW want it. If people really want the said items, they will either buy some CCs and take a shot in the pack lottery, or simply buy packs to sell and then buy from the GTN. Either way, BW is happy, someone, somewhere has paid RL money for the goods.

 

Again, though, I do maintain that to just play the game, they have all they need, not necessarily want.

 

Oh and I maintain the same facts you do. This expac especially has made it a matter of "everyone can do everything if they chose to and put in the effort". This isn't like EQ2 where, before raids were split into easy and hard mode, PUG raids were unheard of or where, if you again did not raid and/or fact plat coukd be hard to get your hands on AND you had plat sinks to boot (repair, travel, rent for housing, not a one time fee etc). This is the most accessible MMORPG I have ever played.

 

I was just pointing out that some, perhaps many, casuals would immediately deride the idea of "...if you try and put in the effort" as elitist, without considering that more than a few games are a lot less accessible, that "everyone" is replaced simply by "many" even just "some" and that the amount of effort required for SWTOR is minimal at best.

[SteveTheCynic]

I don't think anyone was saying that the CM creates money...only that it is there where we see the most obvious signs of inflation.

What nobody ever seems to acknowledge is that MMORPG economies actually have two sorts of inflation.

 

The less obvious one is "local" - the price of specific relatively-rare goods goes up and up.

 

The more obvious one is "global" - the price of all player-to-player goods goes up and up.

 

Credit sinks exist to manage global inflation, cause by increases in the total size, measured in credits per character(1), of the game economy. This corresponds to a real-world economy suffering inflation because of excessive M1 or M4 money supply.

 

(1) A game like GW2, where credits (called "gold" there) are managed per-"legacy", will have this be per legacy, not per character.

 

Local inflation is caused by credit concentration, and affects the prices of the most expensive goods.

 

"Credit concentration"? What's that? It is the phenomenon where big piles of credits become concentrated in the hands of a relatively small number of players. These players can buy and sell the most valuable items, while others have to gather them from the game world.

 

Gold sellers, by facilitating credit concentration, cause local inflation directly. If they get their credits by farming items and selling them to normal players, they cause a minor amount of global deflation (by pouring credits into the GTN-fee gold sink). If they can farm sufficient credits directly, either by gathering them from mobs or simply vendoring some trivially acquired item (former RoM players might recognise the words "Guard Dog Meat" in this context, although that usually could be sold to players for more money), this causes global inflation, but still also causes local inflation.

[eartharioch]

On a side note...I find it interesting how ANGRY people got over the nerf to the slot machine when they were only losing virtual currency but many of the people who complained have NO problem gambling with real money on the CM that has its own questionable drop rate for valuable items.

 

They got angry because they weren't gambling before the nerf...