I see this ALOT post 4.0

[Jonfendm]

I was running heroics on Alderaan and Balmorra last night. 2 Heroics in particular stand out. on Alderaan it was Proof of Treason, on Balmorra it was the one where you have to kill 8 snipers (Hit them where they Live?) in a small area where literally on 10 snipers spawn.

 

In both instances, there were about 10 other people in the area doing the same Heroic. At one point, it was myself and 3 others waiting for the probe droid to respawn. Figuring that we did not all need to waste time waiting for 4 respawns, I sent group invites to 3 of the others. Not a single one accepted. So when the probe respaned, all 3 of them clicked on it at once, of course, only 1 would actually "get" the click. On Balmorra, I invited about 5 people to group, because waiting for those snipers to respawn takes forever. Again, not one person accepted (none of these people were in groups, because I got the "declined" message instead of the "xxxxxx is already in a group" message. They all just continued to go about their business killing snipers as they spawned.

 

I see it said ALL the time on here, that the long time "elite" players are terrible people for their attitudes, and that the casuals are "nicer" group of people who play for the "right" reasons. Now this is not meant as an indictment on casuals, but it just to underscore that there are many casuals who are just as flipping arrogant and selfish as the elites that they do so enjoy bashing. I could do nothing except sit there and think of all the posts basing "elites" as I tried, and failed , to save ALL of us some time, because people do not understand that if 4 people are waiting on the same spawn, it only makes sense to group up. Literally no harm can come of it.

 

 

Now, do not get me wrong, there are plenty of idiots in all walks of gaming life, but just remember, next time you may want to bash an "elite", ask yourself if you, really, are any better.

[ImmortalLowlife]

.....I sent group invites to 3 of the others. Not a single one accepted....

 

I ignore blind group invites on G.P. My auto ignore is ALWAYS on. Years of people sending blind invites (a lot of which I USED to accept btw) to do a mission that they're.....

 

A. Under leveled

B. Under geared

C. Having to go afk as soon as I accept their invite.

D. Rolling NEED on everything that Drops

E. Running ahead blindly agro'ing everything

F. Stealthing past everything, then complaining about me. having to fight.

G. Screaming "AAAARRRGGGG SPAAACCCCEEEBAAARRRR!"

 

need I continue?

[Uruare]

Bioware puts us in positions of basic functionality resources being scarce resources we must compete over in a game environment that, like so many of the WoW-knockoff design, teach mistrust for other players.

 

For some reason, devs all over seem to think it's brilliant design to make people be all Hunger Games over resource nodes and quest completion resources, create group content in which less then half of the participants are going to get anything at all and make it ridiculously easy to accidentally flag for pvp even if you're not on a pvp server, but still expect people to hit max level and suddenly be everyone else's bosom chums, happy and warm in welcoming all the strangers into their groups to do all the things with.

 

So we wind up in these games that make a lot of people want to mistrust and avoid eachother of they want to play unbothered and uninterrupted by anyone else's shenanigans, then turn around and punish them for it at endgame.

 

So now, with all the grace and dignity of a drunken penguin, Bioware has overcorrected the leveling experience to be halfway impossible to even do with friends even if one wants to, while at the same time doing exactly nothing to make the game less fostering of hostility between players.

 

Forcing us to compete for basic functionality resources to complete quests is not good design. Yes, we can ameliorate or slightly by grouping up and sharing when we can, but frankly, most aren't going to do that because most aren't going to trust the rest of us enough to want to in the first place.

 

In the end, these games have great power to sculpt and shape the mentalities of their players by sculpting and shaping the environments in which they operate.

 

Here, and in similarly structured WoW-likes, it couldn't possibly be clearer that they want us to mistrust eachother and very much subscribe to us versus them mentalities... And the easiest of those mentalities to acquire is me versus all.

 

There is exactly nothing to do in this game in which cooperating is effortless and rewarded. Making groups to do the rewarding content is a chore even if you're in a guild that does it all because you have to juggle the lockout timers of raids and make sure team composition is right with the runners and everyone's RL schedules match up.

 

Or you can pug. Isn't that fun? It's a grab bag of fun. You never know what you're going to get! Whether or not you'll even be able to complete content with a pug is a mystery! Aren't mysteries fun?

 

GW2 gets this right all over. These WoW-likes are stuck in the stone age of MMO design and as far as I can tell, the consequences are so due that they're changing the way new and future MMOs work entirely, but nobody's often talking about why.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Uruare

[Artaniz]

I ignore blind group invites on G.P. My auto ignore is ALWAYS on. Years of people sending blind invites (a lot of which I USED to accept btw) to do a mission that they're.....

 

A. Under leveled

B. Under geared

C. Having to go afk as soon as I accept their invite.

D. Rolling NEED on everything that Drops

E. Running ahead blindly agro'ing everything

F. Stealthing past everything, then complaining about me. having to fight.

G. Screaming "AAAARRRGGGG SPAAACCCCEEEBAAARRRR!"

 

need I continue?

 

 

Absolutely nothing you posted is relevant to plowing outdoor 2+ heroics , your response is hyperbole and fails to understand the OPS point , it honestly looks like you read the title and posted go back under the bridge.

 

There is no time to send you a nice whisper when doing heroics , i toss invites if you are to stupid to ta them i make damn sure to instant cast aoe on top of the mobs o you dont get the credit if you decline the invites in heroic 2+ outdoor zones.

[Bluttoh]

I ignore blind group invites on G.P. My auto ignore is ALWAYS on. Years of people sending blind invites (a lot of which I USED to accept btw) to do a mission that they're.....

 

A. Under leveled

B. Under geared

C. Having to go afk as soon as I accept their invite.

D. Rolling NEED on everything that Drops

E. Running ahead blindly agro'ing everything

F. Stealthing past everything, then complaining about me. having to fight.

G. Screaming "AAAARRRGGGG SPAAACCCCEEEBAAARRRR!"

 

need I continue?

 

 

I also never respond to an invite unless someone "asks" , just like what this person says, it generally turns out A-F

[Cedia]

Bioware puts us in positions of basic functionality resources being scarce resources we must compete over in a game environment that, like so many of the WoW-knockoff design, teach mistrust for other players.

 

For some reason, devs all over seem to think it's brilliant design to make people be all Hunger Games over resource nodes and quest completion resources, create group content in which less then half of the participants are going to get anything at all and make it ridiculously easy to accidentally flag for pvp even if you're not on a pvp server, but still expect people to hit max level and suddenly be everyone else's bosom chums, happy and warm in welcoming all the strangers into their groups to do all the things with.

 

So we wind up in these games that make a lot of people want to mistrust and avoid eachother of they want to play unbothered and uninterrupted by anyone else's shenanigans, then turn around and punish them for it at endgame.

 

So now, with all the grace and dignity of a drunken penguin, Bioware has overcorrected the leveling experience to be halfway impossible to even do with friends even if one wants to, while at the same time doing exactly nothing to make the game less fostering of hostility between players.

 

Forcing us to compete for basic functionality resources to complete quests is not good design. Yes, we can ameliorate or slightly by grouping up and sharing when we can, but frankly, most aren't going to do that because most aren't going to trust the rest of us enough to want to in the first place.

 

In the end, these games have great power to sculpt and shape the mentalities of their players by sculpting and shaping the environments in which they operate.

 

Here, and in similarly structured WoW-likes, it couldn't possibly be clearer that they want us to mistrust eachother and very much subscribe to us versus them mentalities... And the easiest of those mentalities to acquire is me versus all.

 

There is exactly nothing to do in this game in which cooperating is effortless and rewarded. Making groups to do the rewarding content is a chore even if you're in a guild that does it all because you have to juggle the lockout timers of raids and make sure team composition is right with the runners and everyone's RL schedules match up.

 

Or you can pug. Isn't that fun? It's a grab bag of fun. You never know what you're going to get! Whether or not you'll even be able to complete content with a pug is a mystery! Aren't mysteries fun?

 

GW2 gets this right all over. These WoW-likes are stuck in the stone age of MMO design and as far as I can tell, the consequences are so due that they're changing the way new and future MMOs work entirely, but nobody's often talking about why.

 

This. So much this. It's bad game design.

 

A lot of the quests were fixed by adding a blue clicky to spawn a boss. Also last night as I was running through Tython again I noticed that Kolovish's pyres don't have any respawn time anymore.

 

So maybe they are working on this issue -- file a suggestion?

[benficakungfu]

I was running heroics on Alderaan and Balmorra last night. 2 Heroics in particular stand out. on Alderaan it was Proof of Treason, on Balmorra it was the one where you have to kill 8 snipers (Hit them where they Live?) in a small area where literally on 10 snipers spawn.

 

In both instances, there were about 10 other people in the area doing the same Heroic. At one point, it was myself and 3 others waiting for the probe droid to respawn. Figuring that we did not all need to waste time waiting for 4 respawns, I sent group invites to 3 of the others. Not a single one accepted. So when the probe respaned, all 3 of them clicked on it at once, of course, only 1 would actually "get" the click. On Balmorra, I invited about 5 people to group, because waiting for those snipers to respawn takes forever. Again, not one person accepted (none of these people were in groups, because I got the "declined" message instead of the "xxxxxx is already in a group" message. They all just continued to go about their business killing snipers as they spawned.

 

I see it said ALL the time on here, that the long time "elite" players are terrible people for their attitudes, and that the casuals are "nicer" group of people who play for the "right" reasons. Now this is not meant as an indictment on casuals, but it just to underscore that there are many casuals who are just as flipping arrogant and selfish as the elites that they do so enjoy bashing. I could do nothing except sit there and think of all the posts basing "elites" as I tried, and failed , to save ALL of us some time, because people do not understand that if 4 people are waiting on the same spawn, it only makes sense to group up. Literally no harm can come of it.

 

 

Now, do not get me wrong, there are plenty of idiots in all walks of gaming life, but just remember, next time you may want to bash an "elite", ask yourself if you, really, are any better.

 

I found the waiting not worth it..

[Zanriel]

Bioware puts us in positions of basic functionality resources being scarce resources we must compete over in a game environment that, like so many of the WoW-knockoff design, teach mistrust for other players.

 

For some reason, devs all over seem to think it's brilliant design to make people be all Hunger Games over resource nodes and quest completion resources, create group content in which less then half of the participants are going to get anything at all and make it ridiculously easy to accidentally flag for pvp even if you're not on a pvp server, but still expect people to hit max level and suddenly be everyone else's bosom chums, happy and warm in welcoming all the strangers into their groups to do all the things with.

 

So we wind up in these games that make a lot of people want to mistrust and avoid eachother of they want to play unbothered and uninterrupted by anyone else's shenanigans, then turn around and punish them for it at endgame.

 

So now, with all the grace and dignity of a drunken penguin, Bioware has overcorrected the leveling experience to be halfway impossible to even do with friends even if one wants to, while at the same time doing exactly nothing to make the game less fostering of hostility between players.

 

Forcing us to compete for basic functionality resources to complete quests is not good design. Yes, we can ameliorate or slightly by grouping up and sharing when we can, but frankly, most aren't going to do that because most aren't going to trust the rest of us enough to want to in the first place.

 

In the end, these games have great power to sculpt and shape the mentalities of their players by sculpting and shaping the environments in which they operate.

 

Here, and in similarly structured WoW-likes, it couldn't possibly be clearer that they want us to mistrust eachother and very much subscribe to us versus them mentalities... And the easiest of those mentalities to acquire is me versus all.

 

There is exactly nothing to do in this game in which cooperating is effortless and rewarded. Making groups to do the rewarding content is a chore even if you're in a guild that does it all because you have to juggle the lockout timers of raids and make sure team composition is right with the runners and everyone's RL schedules match up.

 

Or you can pug. Isn't that fun? It's a grab bag of fun. You never know what you're going to get! Whether or not you'll even be able to complete content with a pug is a mystery! Aren't mysteries fun?

 

GW2 gets this right all over. These WoW-likes are stuck in the stone age of MMO design and as far as I can tell, the consequences are so due that they're changing the way new and future MMOs work entirely, but nobody's often talking about why.

 

This was my #1 complaint about the design when SWTOR first came out. It's why I choose to play on a less populated server (Begeren Colony) and if there's ever an overflow map, I'll switch to it. I can't stand having to do PVP in a PVE game and that's exactly what non-shared quest objectives force you to do... you're PVP'ing with people to click first.

 

If I see someone questing in the same area, sometimes I'll toss them a blind invite, sometimes I'll whisper them, and sometimes I'll ignore them. Every once in a while someone will toss me an invite and I'll always accept. The outcome usually ends up about the same either way... about a 30% success rate.

 

Bioware should make it a priority to either make grouping obligatory (compulsory) in these types of outdoor quest areas. If everyone's in the same vicinity and on the same quest, they're grouped automatically, even if only behind the scenes. Public quests have been a thing since at least Warhammer Online (maybe earlier). GW2 does it, a lot of other MMO's do it, and to me it's the only viable way to make an MMO work. It's immersion breaking to see a bunch of other people running around doing the same thing you're doing but nobody shares the credit.

 

If they do that, they should also take a page from GW2's playbook and have areas scale up in difficulty based on how many players are around. Maybe public questing and scaling is something the Hero Engine is incapable of, but obviously it either takes more effort than BW deems it worth, or it's a deliberate design decision. If it's the latter, I find that rather disappointing.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Zanriel

[tmwfte]

I only ever see this -- http://cdn.thewritepractice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Alot-vs-a-lot1-600x450.png -- alot. *shrug* Edited November 27, 2015 by tmwfte

[Nasja]

Competition within the same faction in heroics needs to be adressed. This can be done by increasing the spawn rate of mobs so everyone can complete the heroics without having to wait for other players and also by providing clickable objects to spawn a boss. I think both doesn't require a lot of time from the dev team.

 

To the people who auto-ignore group invites... the listed problems are more of a problem in group finder flashpoints then in heroics where you group up, kill mob(s) and then disband 1 minute later.

In the open world, there are just a couple morons who spam group invites, for these people.. ignore is your friend.

[towely]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S8TiTtIFjpI/AAAAAAAACxQ/HXLdiZZ0goU/s320/ALOT14.png

[KrazieFox]

I have stopped doing those two - along with Possessed Hunter and Mutations (republic side).

 

I'm sick of having to compete with umpteen other players for the exact same looooooooooong respawn mobs ... I am primarily a solo player, but with those Heroics I will ALWAYS prefer to team with the other players rather than compete with them. I turned off my 'Auto - Decline Group Invites' specifically due to these outdoor (non-instanced) Heroics - but I can only do it so many times before I got sick of having to compete ... so I simply do not bother with the 4 mentioned - plus several others too that are not instanced.

 

Horrible, Terrible design. They were originally created as Optional - so there were never that many players doing them at the same time as yourself - now they are mandatory for Alliance there are nearly always 100+ players all trying to kill the same 10 minute respawn mobs ... it became so frustrating I leave those alone now - I just cannot be bothered to fight for them.

 

The Respawn timers need serious adjustmant.

 

Dev's need to realise that people are NOT teaming for them and increase numbers too ... or, if you are in the vicinity of an Heroic and you have the quest in your log, auto Group players ...

 

The Dev's need to sit down and redesign the mechanics for these Heroics now there are so many players trying to do them simultaneously.

[branmakmuffin]

I ignore blind group invites on G.P. My auto ignore is ALWAYS on. Years of people sending blind invites (a lot of which I USED to accept btw) to do a mission that they're.....

 

A. Under leveled

B. Under geared

C. Having to go afk as soon as I accept their invite.

D. Rolling NEED on everything that Drops

E. Running ahead blindly agro'ing everything

F. Stealthing past everything, then complaining about me. having to fight.

G. Screaming "AAAARRRGGGG SPAAACCCCEEEBAAARRRR!"

 

need I continue?

For the OP to assume the declines are out of arrogance is quite a leap. I, too, do not like to group with random strangers. I will just go do something else and then come back and try again later if there is a "kill queue." He also seems to be implying that he is one of the "elites" and that the decliners are all "casuals" who should be grateful for his offer of help.

 

Horrible, Terrible design. They were originally created as Optional - so there were never that many players doing them at the same time as yourself - now they are mandatory for Alliance

The only thing they are mandatory for is the Galactic Hero title. It's not like there's a shortage of other Heroics to do.

Edited November 27, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[JediQuaker]

I see it said ALL the time on here, that the long time "elite" players are terrible people for their attitudes, and that the casuals are "nicer" group of people who play for the "right" reasons.

How did you determine that those players who declined your invite were "casuals" and not "elites"? How could you tell?

Maybe, since most people can do the Heroics easily, they simply don't want to share the drops.

[XiamaraSimi]

Coming from Dungeons and Dragons Online, where a blind invite makes a window pop up in your screen until you click your answer, especially bad if your typing something and it makes you start running and autorun off a cliff/into mobs, a lot of people turn off invites, and then -forget- they have it turned off.

 

Yes they need to up respawns, but getting pissy at people for using an in game feature to ward off unasked for invites from rude people is just silly.

 

And yes, trolls can and do follow you around spamming invite just to be trolls, easier to just turn off invites and deny them fuel.

[meaux]

Open tap on mobs. Everyone gets credit for the kill if they do damage to it. Lotro everyone gets their own loot too.

[Taramayne]

There is no time to send you a nice whisper when doing heroics , i toss invites if you are to stupid to ta them i make damn sure to instant cast aoe on top of the mobs o you dont get the credit if you decline the invites in heroic 2+ outdoor zones.

 

Obviously you're part of the problem.

 

"I don't have time to ask"....nonsense. Take the 15 seconds to type "group for (insert target here) please" or wait the 5 minutes for it to respawn when your AOE doesn't tag it first.

 

Punishing people out of spite for not accepting your blind invite is just childish and silly.

 

Still, there DOES need to be adjustment made to respawn timers for the public areas.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Taramayne

[JDiablos]

How did you determine that those players who declined your invite were "casuals" and not "elites"? How could you tell?

Maybe, since most people can do the Heroics easily, they simply don't want to share the drops.

 

Anyone who doesn't understand that grouping up for such a quest makes it a 100 times...I mean 1000 times...no, wait I mean 1 MILLION DOLLA...I mean 1 million times faster and easier to do is playing casually. For that matter people who...

 

have auto-decline on are casual.

 

and people who...

 

take time to loot mobs while doing heroic quests are casual. (per your reference to the drops (which I assume was not meant to signify leprosy))

 

There is one instance; however, where an elite type player would decline invites. That is if he/she were utterly confident in his/her ability to win the mob when it spawned, and wanted to troll everyone else by killing it while the plebs watched on in depression and disbelief. This would immediately be followed by the aforementioned elite mounting his greatest stallion (rarest OPS mount drop) and riding off into the sunset.

[JamieKirby]

I normally prefer to solo while levelling up, but grouping for the sake of speeding up the heroic completion, sure i will always accept a group invite for it, but i also would prefer them asking first, instead of doing spamming me with group invites.

 

As others have stated, i have encountered so many players that just want to skip the cool stuff...aka 'SPACE BAR!!!!!!!!!' i really wish bioware would make everything 100% instanced and if you want to group up, you have to invite them and they come into your instance.

 

Then there would be no need to group up unless you want to....but thats my opinion, so please don't jump down my throat because you have a different opinion.

[Allamirr]

I posted on this the other day, its ONLY about the open area free for all Heroic2s that are a problem. It is the only time i accept blind invites, normally i never accept blind invites. It makes the heroic2s go soooo much faster, without having to fight over spawns and waiting on repops. I think more and more people are starting to realize its better to just group and get these done faster, as the grind becomes more annoying week after week.

[Jazulfi]

I see it said ALL the time on here, that the long time "elite" players are terrible people for their attitudes, and that the casuals are "nicer" group of people who play for the "right" reasons. Now this is not meant as an indictment on casuals, but it just to underscore that there are many casuals who are just as flipping arrogant and selfish as the elites that they do so enjoy bashing. I could do nothing except sit there and think of all the posts basing "elites" as I tried, and failed , to save ALL of us some time, because people do not understand that if 4 people are waiting on the same spawn, it only makes sense to group up. Literally no harm can come of it.

 

Just want to point out that you have no idea whether the people refusing your invites are what you consider to be 'casual' or 'elite' players. I get your frustration at the situation but you're just making massive assumptions.

 

Those words get bandied about too much, particularly here on the forum, and are fairly meaningless in real terms. I think there's a vast colour-wheel of play-styles and attitudes, which are not even set in stone day-by-day to an individual player, and whilst I agree it's not very efficient of them if they refuse, there could be myriad reasons why they wouldn't want to at that point, reasonable or otherwise.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jazulfi

[Bluttoh]

Anyone who doesn't understand that grouping up for such a quest makes it a 100 times...I mean 1000 times...no, wait I mean 1 MILLION DOLLA...I mean 1 million times faster and easier to do is playing casually. For that matter people who...

 

have auto-decline on are casual.

 

and people who...

 

take time to loot mobs while doing heroic quests are casual. (per your reference to the drops (which I assume was not meant to signify leprosy))

 

There is one instance; however, where an elite type player would decline invites. That is if he/she were utterly confident in his/her ability to win the mob when it spawned, and wanted to troll everyone else by killing it while the plebs watched on in depression and disbelief. This would immediately be followed by the aforementioned elite mounting his greatest stallion (rarest OPS mount drop) and riding off into the sunset.

 

 

Now I know what a troll is, thanks pal!

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Yet another reason why 4.0 sucks. Also the fact that they didn't even bother making a daily area and sent people back to old heroics to do the heroics solo... There is no logic in this other than just pure laziness.

[ArielaKnight]

There are reasons people refuse to group up in heroics

 

(1) They want to do it themselves.

(2) They don't know you

(3) They don't like blind invites. DO NOT give me the excuse well you are in an open area so it is not the same. If you are waiting for something to respawn YOU CAN ask them first. The excuse it is an open area is wearing thin on these types of post. You are waiting for something to respawn and you can't ask someone to group up and then you want to know why they don't group. Sorry, asking first is polite.

 

(4) They are waiting for someone to log on and if they are in the middle of something they are going to log and go join their friends, boyfriend, girfriend, spouse and leave the area. Some people are playing with people and they do not want to get in a group if they are waiting for someone to log on.

 

(5) They don't like to group with people that tend to want to continue in the group even after you disband from the group. They recieve messages like (a) Why did you disband (b) You should have stayed in the group © Can I put you on my friend's list. and then when you log on hey can you come help me do this........

 

Yes those things have happened. Some of us have been through that too many times and yes on heroics.

 

I will group:

 

(1) If someone has enough courtesy to ask me first (Reread #3 before you say I don't have time)

 

Have a good day.

Edited November 27, 2015 by ArielaKnight

[beattlebilly]

Declining a blind group invite =/= being rude or having a bad attitude. Now, if they said something rude, obnoxious, mean or insulting to you, sure. But just declining? No.