Noyjitat Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Using rank 50 inf all datacrons, max presence, all class buffs and all races unlocked - excluding Cathar Companion: Jaesa Wilsaam Soothe 4.0 (launchday) 12919 heal with a 7.4 cooldown 4.02 (previous nerf) 3558 - 5033 with a 7.6 cooldown 4.02a (current) 7072 - 7803 heal with a 7.5 cooldown Ameliorating force 4.0 18809 health 2.79 second channeled 4.02 (previous nerf) 4345 channel over 2.85 seconds 4.02a (current) 12517 channel over 2.91 seconds Mending 4.0 (launchday) 4874 over 9 seconds with 11.2 cooldown 4.02 (previous nerf) 6336 over 9 seconds with 11.4 cooldown 4.02a (current) 12838 over 9 seconds with 11.2 cooldown Launchday maximum healing combined of all heals for Jaesa was 36602 health now it is 33158 and most of it has moved to heal over time rather than burst. Honestly I think bioware should of did a few patches with slight changes until we got to a point we could all agree on. Because I know the nerf herders are just going to complain about only a 3000 healing reduction. Edited November 24, 2015 by Noyjitat
Robocles Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Using rank 50 inf all datacrons, max presence, all class buffs and all races unlocked - excluding Cathar Companion: Jaesa Wilsaam Soothe 4.0 (launchday) 12919 heal with a 7.4 cooldown 4.02 (previous nerf) 3558 - 5033 with a 7.6 cooldown 4.02a (current) 7072 - 7803 heal with a 7.5 cooldown Ameliorating force 4.0 18809 health 2.79 second channeled 4.02 (previous nerf) 4345 channel over 2.85 seconds 4.02a (current) 12517 channel over 2.91 seconds Mending 4.0 (launchday) 4874 over 9 seconds with 11.2 cooldown 4.02 (previous nerf) 6336 over 9 seconds with 11.4 cooldown 4.02a (current) 12838 over 9 seconds with 11.2 cooldown Launchday maximum healing combined of all heals for Jaesa was 36602 health now it is 33158 and most of it has moved to heal over time rather than burst. Honestly I think bioware should of did a few patches with slight changes until we got to a point we could all agree on. Because I know the nerf herders are just going to complain about only a 3000 healing reduction. Wow... so are you saying Mending got buffed that much? I'll have to try that... and I don't think that's in line with what they intended... interesting. Thanks for the quick test and report. It's always nice to see actual numbers attached to these comments.
Noyjitat Posted November 24, 2015 Author Posted November 24, 2015 Yeah seems they wanted to reduce burst healing but rather than do small changes over time they did everything in one patch. Not sure that was a smart move but nobody talked about leaving due to overpowered companions like those that were going to leave over underpowered companions. Still I think it was a mistake to boost them this much without testing. But it they really decide to balance star fortresses and flashpoints separately we may see these new numbers don't matter so much in those.
XiamaraSimi Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Maybe its their way of dealing with the crappy AI coding that makes comps just stop healing for no reason
Robocles Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Yeah seems they wanted to reduce burst healing but rather than do small changes over time they did everything in one patch. Not sure that was a smart move but nobody talked about leaving due to overpowered companions like those that were going to leave over underpowered companions. Still I think it was a mistake to boost them this much without testing. But it they really decide to balance star fortresses and flashpoints separately we may see these new numbers don't matter so much in those. We'll see... it just seems weird to reduce the other heals and then leave one that will give me a roughly 1.4khps hot on me almost all the time. We'll have to see how it works out. Regarding the balance of the SFs... I thought they were just going to call it something different to reduce confusion... maybe I need to reread it, though. Again, thanks... I didn't think to record this stuff before the 4.02 dropped. As a relatively important aside... did they fix the armor/defense issue this patch (didn't see it in the notes)?
Noyjitat Posted November 24, 2015 Author Posted November 24, 2015 That was supposed to be in 4.03 so I don't think so.
Robocles Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Maybe its their way of dealing with the crappy AI coding that makes comps just stop healing for no reason Maybe... but I thought that might have been a byproduct of the issue creating input (and general) lag on certain planets... my comps seemed to act fine when I wasn't having any lag issues.
TUXs Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Very nice!!! Thank you for tracking these and posting the numbers...it's really appreciated!
XiamaraSimi Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Maybe... but I thought that might have been a byproduct of the issue creating input (and general) lag on certain planets... my comps seemed to act fine when I wasn't having any lag issues. Not for me, even without lag, Theron and Akk Dog would just stop healing and fight instead
Noyjitat Posted November 24, 2015 Author Posted November 24, 2015 I ran into that problem all the time before 4.0 especially when tanking at maximum distance from the companion. They would simply just keep blasting and never move in range to heal me. The only way around it was to make sure I wasn't too far from them but even then they still would rather blast than heal.
AshlaBoga Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I'm more interested in DPS numbers since I have ALL my companions across 22 toons in DPS stance. Anyone parse them yet? Prior to nerf my Rank 50 Lana/Senya was doing roughly 5660-5670 dps.
Noyjitat Posted November 24, 2015 Author Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Cant give you exact numbers but a 15% increase won't be very much in that department. I wish I had written down all the damage numbers before all this started... Edited November 24, 2015 by Noyjitat
Psychopyro Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Regarding the balance of the SFs... I thought they were just going to call it something different to reduce confusion... maybe I need to reread it, though. They are, it was not going to make this patch though, that much was certain. The renaming will probably come in the next patch or two.
MillionsKNives Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Using rank 50 inf all datacrons, max presence, all class buffs and all races unlocked - excluding Cathar Companion: Jaesa Wilsaam Soothe 4.0 (launchday) 12919 heal with a 7.4 cooldown 4.02 (previous nerf) 3558 - 5033 with a 7.6 cooldown 4.02a (current) 7072 - 7803 heal with a 7.5 cooldown Ameliorating force 4.0 18809 health 2.79 second channeled 4.02 (previous nerf) 4345 channel over 2.85 seconds 4.02a (current) 12517 channel over 2.91 seconds Mending 4.0 (launchday) 4874 over 9 seconds with 11.2 cooldown 4.02 (previous nerf) 6336 over 9 seconds with 11.4 cooldown 4.02a (current) 12838 over 9 seconds with 11.2 cooldown Launchday maximum healing combined of all heals for Jaesa was 36602 health now it is 33158 and most of it has moved to heal over time rather than burst. Honestly I think bioware should of did a few patches with slight changes until we got to a point we could all agree on. Because I know the nerf herders are just going to complain about only a 3000 healing reduction. Here's some napkin math based on those numbers. I multiplied the 4.0.2 numbers all by 15% first for my calculations, to account for the buff to base stats. Soothe: (single target heal) Stated 42% increase would have been 5,810 - 8,218. This falls roughly in line with stated number, though the range was narrowed and the new numbers fall towards the higher end. Ameliorating Force: (channel heal) Stated 61% increase would have been 8,044. Actual increase is 150%. Mending: (HOT) Stated 43% increase would have been 10,419. Actual increase is 76%. They did say influence level would affect the actual percentage, but that's a huge difference from the target numbers. The stated numbers look like a pretty good middle ground. The actual numbers you're showing seem like nearly a complete reversion of the nerf. Edited November 24, 2015 by MillionsKNives
XiamaraSimi Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) I ran into that problem all the time before 4.0 especially when tanking at maximum distance from the companion. They would simply just keep blasting and never move in range to heal me. The only way around it was to make sure I wasn't too far from them but even then they still would rather blast than heal. Sadly Theron would be standing right next to me pew pew pewing, knowing how they like to shoot from afar, i always stealth in and drop wither, or yank a wanderer to me, Theron within 2 feet of me at all times. And Akk Dog ran off to gnaw on whatever mob that was furthest from mes face Edited November 24, 2015 by XiamaraSimi
Furiant Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Sadly Theron would be standing right next to me pew pew pewing, knowing how they like to shoot from afar, i always stealth in and drop wither, or yank a wanderer to me, Theron within 2 feet of me at all times. And Akk Dog ran off to gnaw on whatever mob that was furthest from mes face Exactly. I'm at 40% and bleeding out while being hammered on by 3 elites and 2 strongs, and Kira actually stops healing, runs up beside me, and begins hacking away at one of the mobs. She does this until I die. Like she's OOM or something. Then I have to rez at medcenter and run the entire way back, because OMG REZ EXPLOIT, or punishment, or whatever reason that probably doesn't account for fail companions. I've died three times on this character by level 40, and every time was due to bugs. Sorry, venting. Edited November 24, 2015 by Furiant
Darkbloom Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Hello Noyjitat, I have no doubt that you have transcribed the tooltip numbers properly, but are the heals actually hitting for that much in game?
Undraxis Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I havent finished updating, but if those are the numbers after the patch then I am personally satisfied. Midway between the old OP and the recent nerf is a good spot for me.
Lord_Of_Sith Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Beyond looking at the raw numbers, I think it would be far more helpful to look at the hps in an actual rotation. I don't know how the AI actually chooses a rotation, but for the sake of rough math to make a point I'll assume it goes soothe->mending->ameliorating force->ameliorating force-> sooth->ameliorating force->ameliorating force. This would be a sustainable, repeatable rotation lasting ~15s. Doing the math for the actual hps (based on your numbers and giving a % comparing to original) comes to: Original: 7064 hps (100%) Nerf: 2087 hps (30%) Current: 5185 hps (73%) Again, probably not the exact order that companions would use (actual rotation probably sub-optimal,making these numbers a bit high), but also not account for crit (meaning these numbers a bit low), but it should be a rough estimate good enough for a thread like this. For 1 target healing, that means the original 4.0 companions could heal about as well as a fully min-maxed pve healer utilizing all cds. Clearly too high for a companion, which is why people were kicking average healers from hmfps/tacticals and replacing them with companions.. However, 2k hps is easily attainable by a dps offhealing, so clearly too low. I'd personally say 5k hps is too high, but not high enough that people will kick healers out of gf content to intentionally replace them with companions (particularly with the lack of ae healing ability), thus healer comps should now be usable but not game-breaking the way they were. Problem solved.
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