Question for all the casuals

[ZanyaCross]

I really dislike using the term "casual" in this sense. This game's difficulty should be fine for a casual player. I might even support buffing the comps back up slightly to a point where at Influence 50 they are just above what they would be in 3.0 Yavin gear. That's perfectly fine!

 

The people who want constant invincibility? That's not casual play! That's not any kind of play at all. That's being lazy.

 

Spacebar.

Press Spacebar.

SPACEBARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

OMG you ^&%^$%$ hit the spacebar.

 

You know what? That's fine. You don't like to group then you only have to six whole times throughout the entire game for the SF runs. Here's my problem, I do like group content and the crop of new players that came in have been awful. It's not like it was their fault either, they never learned to play right in single-player because thanks to the ridiculously OP comps they never had to.

 

People keep screaming about "elitists" ruining their fun, but why the hell should my game be ruined for the sake of people who don't want to even learn the basics of how to play or are so horribly inconvenienced at the thought of a heroic taking 5min longer?

Edited November 20, 2015 by ZanyaCross

[Theeko]

I wish I could hate you to death. I haven't played LoL in years and this still brought back an amount of rage I hadn't felt in forever.

 

But Teemo is the best and the funniest, lol

[Tarkashae]

They destroyed the ability to do solo heroic content, after explicitly stating that they are meant to be solo'ed the night before.

 

Then they should fix it. I find it boring to do everything alone, but if people don't have the option, they should.

 

I don't *think* I said otherwise? I just wish people would stop being so ANGRY at everything over it. I'm still playing, and I actually found that grouping with others to do harder content is faster.

 

Being a tank, I don't die easy. But when I tried the heroic starforge solo first day (before nerf), it took FOREVER to slog through, and I got to the droid and just came to a stalemate. I wasn't dying, but neither was it. That wasn't fun. So I came back with another player and we cleared it FAST. That was fun.

 

I see players who main a dps saying they can't solo things anymore and I say "OMG PLS LET ME BE YOUR MEATSHIELD" so we can do it!

 

I wish I had picked a different server sometimes. I came to Jedi Covenant to join a guild of ex-EVE friends, but they all moved on months ago. Not many people here.

 

If I transfer all my characters to a different server will I still keep all my legacy/achievements perks?

Edited November 20, 2015 by Tarkashae

[Eanelinea]

I don't group:

 

Takes twice as long for me.

 

I like being able to afk as much as I want to.

 

I don't want some elitist jerk nitpicking my armor when I'm doing an sm heroic or operation and we're doing just fine.

 

Ain't no body but myself paying my subscription, thank you.

 

I KNOW how to play. I was able to play and even lead raids in Everquest and WoW, I can do the same in this game.

 

I was FORCED to group for EVERY DAMN THING in Everquest, I don't want to go through that crap again.

 

I have a life.

 

I am NOT going to spacebar. I don't care if I've seen the same cutscenes once or a million times, I'm going to watch them again if I want to. Again, ain't no one but myself paying my subsciption.

 

**I** want the loot and decorations, not have to fight for them.

 

I REALLY don't give two ***** in the wind if I'm putting out defense/dps/heal numbers or not. I'm not in the middle of doing a nightmare operation, so who gives a ****.

 

Elitist people make me want to smack a *****.

[Halinalle]

- "L2P! You have to use ability X exactly when I want you to use it."

- "If you don't have 80k hp you're filthy casual who doesn't know how to gear."

- Level 50+ Vanguards who are obviously Tactics but have Plasma Cell active and play it like Assault Specialist (Explosive round spam).

[Deamandred]

 

People keep screaming about "elitists" ruining their fun, but why the hell should my game be ruined for the sake of people who don't want to even learn the basics of how to play?

 

Interesting comment. Your game, are you saying you have more rights here than the Non-elitists. Technically the casuals make up a larger paying majority than the elitists. You want to see this game here next year or the year after, do the math.

 

The problem here is not elitists or casuals. it was piss poor implementation of the patch. most people on both sides can agree that a toning down of the companions was needed. A moderate toning down that should have first been applied to the test server. So that we could spend a few weeks testing it out. providing feedback that would have included other companion AI issues. In the end getting a patch that made sense addressed more issues and that all sides could live with.

 

Instead we were sold a bill of goods that got a ton of people to resub only to receive a base delta zero nerf a month later.

 

Let me ask you something, although in this context only a New Yorker would get it. If you paid for a Juniors cheese cake would you quietly accept Sara Lee. Because that is essentially the difference between 4.0 companions and 4.02 companions. people feel cheated and justifiably so

[xxHellsmokexx]

I don't group:

 

Takes twice as long for me.

 

I like being able to afk as much as I want to.

 

I don't want some elitist jerk nitpicking my armor when I'm doing an sm heroic or operation and we're doing just fine.

 

Ain't no body but myself paying my subscription, thank you.

 

I KNOW how to play. I was able to play and even lead raids in Everquest and WoW, I can do the same in this game.

 

I was FORCED to group for EVERY DAMN THING in Everquest, I don't want to go through that crap again.

 

I have a life.

 

I am NOT going to spacebar. I don't care if I've seen the same cutscenes once or a million times, I'm going to watch them again if I want to. Again, ain't no one but myself paying my subsciption.

 

**I** want the loot and decorations, not have to fight for them.

 

I REALLY don't give two ***** in the wind if I'm putting out defense/dps/heal numbers or not. I'm not in the middle of doing a nightmare operation, so who gives a ****.

 

Elitist people make me want to smack a *****.

 

This pretty much says it all.

[ZanyaCross]

I wish I had picked a different server sometimes. I came to Jedi Covenant to join a guild of ex-EVE friends, but they all moved on months ago. Not many people here.

 

If I transfer all my characters to a different server will I still keep all my legacy/achievements perks?

 

I believe so, yes. When I moved my much higher level main character over to my current server, it replaced the legacy name of the character who was there already with his, but he brought all his unlocks with him.

[bseefeldt]

This pretty much says it all.

 

LMAO I have to kinda agree lol

[Amadahy]

Despite being in MMOs for well over 11 years now, one thing always baffles me.

 

Why is it anyone's concern why someone plays the way they do?

 

If you enjoy group content, great! Have fun with your friends, guildies, randoms, or whoever.

 

if you enjoy solo, great! Have at if/when you can, and have fun.

 

If you enjoy both, perfect! Go have fun.

 

To me, it seems completely pointless to pit one group against the other. The stereotypical attitudes, displayed all over this forum, regarding group players and solo players is WHY people do not want to group.

 

My reason for not group is I don't want to. I spent the last 10 years (in another game) doing nothing but group content. I spent more time raiding, gearing up for raiding, assisting our lowbies will gearing. Helping out with spreadsheets, re-speccing, and helping anyone that needed it. I am, quite frankly, tired of it. I want to be able to log onto this game and move at my own pace. This has always been my laid back, chill out, no stress MMO. If I want to solo a (planetary) heroic, so be it.

 

Lastly, I have to agree with others comment on heroics. Planetary heroics are our new dailies now. If you are building your alliance, you HAVE to run them to get supplies. If you are leveling up a new character, you HAVE to run them to get gear upgrades. While I am still able to solo the majority of planetary heroics, for Alliance supplies, on my main (218 gear, companions at 50 influence). I had a difficult time on my lowbie character earlier tonight.

 

Prior to 4.0 it was made clear, that heroics (planetary) would be solo-able. I shouldn't have to group up for these. Especially since the rewards are not equal to the headache they are now.

[JDiablos]

Interesting comment. Your game, are you saying you have more rights here than the Non-elitists. Technically the casuals make up a larger paying majority than the elitists. You want to see this game here next year or the year after, do the math.

 

The problem here is not elitists or casuals. it was piss poor implementation of the patch. most people on both sides can agree that a toning down of the companions was needed. A moderate toning down that should have first been applied to the test server. So that we could spend a few weeks testing it out. providing feedback that would have included other companion AI issues. In the end getting a patch that made sense addressed more issues and that all sides could live with.

 

Instead we were sold a bill of goods that got a ton of people to resub only to receive a base delta zero nerf a month later.

 

Let me ask you something, although in this context only a New Yorker would get it. If you paid for a Juniors cheese cake would you quietly accept Sara Lee. Because that is essentially the difference between 4.0 companions and 4.02 companions. people feel cheated and justifiably so

 

2 things.

 

First, you were almost the first person to join this forum (you probably helped set up the furniture) was Demandred already taken by one of the 4 people who got here before you or did you want that extra letter in there? (also if that's a Wheel of Time reference wasn't the companion they just put out a waste of money? I paid $40 bucks I don't think I learned anything new but where everyone was at on the One Power scale. I wanted some notes!)

 

Second, you're absolutely right about implementation. I think companions are in a decent enough place right now that had they rolled them out this way with 4.0 we wouldn't have heard anything about it. Maybe a few requests to buff them slightly but nothing near what we're getting now. This was very much a failure on Bioware's part in thier implementation of the expansion. Having said that they had to correct it, no matter how unpopular it may be right now, because games do need balance to maintain a subscriber base. No matter how much people love a cheat code (and we do love the heck out of them) we get tired more quickly of a game without challenge.

[ZanyaCross]

Interesting comment. Your game, are you saying you have more rights here than the Non-elitists.

 

I stopped reading your self-indulgent text-diarrhea at that point because you obviously didn't read a whole lot of what I wrote. I don't consider myself "elite", and I don't have a problem with casuals. "Casuals" are not the ones whining about this problem so please just stop with the victim-complex.

 

The comps being OP ruined FPs. It ruined world pvp, it ruined single-player mode for quite a few, God only knows what it did to PUGs in ops, and that seems to be okay with a lot of people. So, again, I ask you why I should care about "ruining" the game for people who don't even want to learn the very basics if they obviously don't care about ruining it for people who aren't them?

Edited November 20, 2015 by ZanyaCross

[Tarkashae]

I don't group:

 

Takes twice as long for me.

-as a tank, it speeds things up for me

 

I like being able to afk as much as I want to.

-Fair enough

 

I don't want some elitist jerk nitpicking my armor when I'm doing an sm heroic or operation and we're doing just fine.

-I don't care what you wear. If you can kill stuff nekkid, its funnier

 

Ain't no body but myself paying my subscription, thank you.

-Same for all of us

 

I KNOW how to play. I was able to play and even lead raids in Everquest and WoW, I can do the same in this game.

-I like to think I know how to tank. I stick with what I know and let other people do what they want. If they ASK, I'll give what help I can, but if they don't, they probably don't want any help. That's OK.

 

I was FORCED to group for EVERY DAMN THING in Everquest, I don't want to go through that crap again.

-I never played EQ, don't know what is was like.

 

I have a life.

-me too

 

I am NOT going to spacebar. I don't care if I've seen the same cutscenes once or a million times, I'm going to watch them again if I want to. Again, ain't no one but myself paying my subsciption.

-cutscenes are awesome!

 

**I** want the loot and decorations, not have to fight for them.

-the decorations drop in solo mode too. Having to deal with the /need on everything/ people can be annoying, but after WoW, I just don't care that much. I see your point here.

 

I REALLY don't give two ***** in the wind if I'm putting out defense/dps/heal numbers or not. I'm not in the middle of doing a nightmare operation, so who gives a ****.

-Agreed.

 

Elitist people make me want to smack a *****.

 

I don't know if I fall into either category. I used to be a raider, but my schedule won't allow it anymore and I just accept it.

[ZeroTypeR]

I can group, I just choose not to. But I do group from time to time, so I'm not against grouping when I NEED to or if I just feel like helping somebody out.

[Deamandred]

I stopped reading your self-indulgent text-diarrhea at that point because you obviously didn't read a whole lot of what I wrote. I don't consider myself "elite", and I don't have a problem with casuals. "Casuals" are not the ones whining about this problem so please just stop with the victim-complex.

 

The comps being OP ruined FPs. It ruined world pvp, it ruined single-player mode for quite a few, God only knows what it did to PUGs in ops, and that seems to be okay with a lot of people. So, again, I ask you why I should care about "ruining" the game for people who don't even want to learn the very basics if they obviously don't care about ruining it for people who aren't them?

 

Once again it all comes down to implementation. Proper beta testing could have prevented the companions from going live at the level they were. They failed there, let them go live and THE OP Companions were responsible for the majority of people returning and spending money here again.

 

The Patch, Poor implementation 2.0, should have been put on the test center. we all knew a moderate nerf was needed.

 

By the way in the end the only changes that matter are those that effect the bottom line. what you want or I want doesn't matter. IF BW wants to leave the changes as is and can accept a certain loss so be it. If the accountants in charge feel different there will be change. Money talks, bulls**it walks.

[Atalantia]

There are two types of people who play this game that make up about 90% of players, and they are as follows:

 

Group 1: Rude disrespectful kids who want everything for free with no work, and are totally ungrateful when they actually get it. They hold no allegiance to the game or its future, and are like locust that will drive away new subs on their way to the next big thing.

 

Group 2: Bitter older mmo players who are glued to the SW ip, and who are torn between mmo styles, but they now gravitate to either solo play, or elitist groups who bash the young and ignorant alike. They too are a cancer, simply because of their constant vocal vitriol, both in the game, and on the forums.

 

 

Neither of these groups play well with others, so grouping is a crapshoot as a result.

 

Holo I must have giggled for at least five minutes very spot on post

[Deamandred]

Second, you're absolutely right about implementation. I think companions are in a decent enough place right now that had they rolled them out this way with 4.0 we wouldn't have heard anything about it. Maybe a few requests to buff them slightly but nothing near what we're getting now. This was very much a failure on Bioware's part in thier implementation of the expansion. Having said that they had to correct it, no matter how unpopular it may be right now, because games do need balance to maintain a subscriber base. No matter how much people love a cheat code (and we do love the heck out of them) we get tired more quickly of a game without challenge.

 

Never stated that a nerf was not needed. I totally agree that a moderate toning down was in fact necessary. I think the sweet spot was smack dab in the middle of what was and what we got. but damm come on all this could have been avoided with 2 or 3 weeks of testing or some beta testing before 4.0 went live. While i do find alot of these threads entertaining. anyone with an ounce of sense can see it all could have and should have been avoided.

 

you are right also had 4.02 been 4.0 this would have worked out better. its always better to add slight improvements to a product than to downgrade one. upgrade promote customer satisfaction, downgrades dissatisfaction. exactly as we have seen the last few days.

[Shwarzchild]

I'm not sure I'll ever understand solo only players, not all of them per say but some of them. Not because of the play style, but because of the hyperbole that I've seen thrown around here ad nausea. And, if anyone says any different it's automatic to call them an elitist jerk or something. Is there truth that there are plenty of players out there who are jerks? Absolutely, but what exactly is this elitist definition? I've been called an elitist before after responding to some posts because I display my raid accomplishments in my signature, and while I am incredibly proud of what I've accomplished in the game and like showing it, does that actually make me an elitist? I try to look at things rationally, without emotion, and attempt to debate things that are based in fact without giving in to my own emotions regarding a topic. I've lost my cool with exactly one player in a flash point in the past 2-3 years (and rightly so got called out for it on the forums, which I responded to so people knew I was that person which made me feel like I owned up to my actions). In a group finder op if I say we don't have the DPS, that's not a knock on the people, it's a simple fact. Each encounter has a mathematical minimum that is required for the group to pass. If it's not there, it's not there. If I want to try it again later, I can. It's not meant as a jab, or an insult. It's an admission of fact.

 

Most of the players that people consider actually elite don't check your gear and then rail on to you about it. Most don't check your achievements and rail on about it to you. I check people's achievements when a) they are in a guild I know is either around mine, or one of the more skilled by reputation to see where they are or what they've been able to do. or b) when they're being a jerk so I know if they have actually done things in this game that warrant the attitude (which most times they haven't). The only other time I actively look at achievements or gear is for my own raid team if I'm recruiting, or planning who gets what gear from a raid. And, there are a lot more people who do what I do than take it upon ourselves to beat our chests, flop our man parts, or generally try to destroy another player. Most high level players are comfortable in their own skins, and quite frankly because we enjoy doing things the way we do i.e with much regard to detail, we have more important things in our minds than truly going so deeply into another person's experience.

 

If a player doesn't space bar? Who cares. I space bar my own cut scenes because I've seen the videos a million times. I couldn't care less if someone else space bars. The instance will progress when everyone is ready. Not a single person I play with regularly demands things from other players. Maybe it's a rare case, but I actually think it isn't. Mainly we're buying time until our raids. If someone breaks CC, before the next pull I'll say in chat "ccing X" so people know, if they still don't follow it oh well, I'll flash bang it or dirty kick it if need be to provide time for the group. Because I know my class I don't worry about if this gets broken, because I know I have a plan B or C to deal with it. If people clearly don't know what's going on in a fight, I will type it out in chat. I won't yell about them not knowing.

 

Elite players don't do the things that are being described by some other players of this game, and at least right now the crowd that is heavily against grouping (and I only say this because the term elitist gets tossed around a lot in these threads). Honestly, these "elitists" are more than likely "wanna-be" elite players. Are there elite players who are jerks? Most likely. That can't be ruled out. But, you don't find them talking much on the forums. You may find them in threads that talk about operations and getting around difficult spots, but aside from that you don't see many of them.

 

FWIW: I am not elite. I consider myself very capable, but I am not elite. I know who the elite players are on my server, and I know they're better than I am. I just think that the whole elitist term is just about as accurate in describing elite players as the casual term is at describing truly casual players.... not very. Some casuals are truly casual i.e they don't have tons of time to delve deeply into the game, and maybe the they don't want to, so they play when they want to, and enjoy it when they do play. Maybe that means 1 night a week. Maybe it's different. But that to me is casual. Just as elite means something different to me than what is thrown around as elitist here. On both sides there's truly ignorant people posing as one or the other. But, ignorance doesn't make one elite, nor does it make one casual.

 

 

Tl;Dr: I had words. I said them. I said them on a forum. And, I'm sure people will not agree with the words I've said.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Shwarzchild

[Tarkashae]

I believe so, yes. When I moved my much higher level main character over to my current server, it replaced the legacy name of the character who was there already with his, but he brought all his unlocks with him.

 

I will probably move some characters then. Working third shift and trying to find people awake early am on a lower pop server isn't working out so well.

 

I really hope Bioware will fix the companions to a reasonable midpoint asap. I haven't really found another mmo I like yet.

 

WoW was fun until the devs "balanced" pvp and broke destro warlock.

 

I really enjoy playing with other people, kinda disappointing that it seems to be a thing of the past.

[ivanhedgehog]

Why can't you group with people?

 

I work full time, I got 2 dogs and a cat to deal with. I only have a couple hours a day to play games.

 

Yet, I don't see the problem with most of the other people in the games I play. I get groups for heroic content a a daily basis, and most of the time, they are NOT terrible, rude jerks. We just do the dungeon/flashpoint, say thanks for the group, and move on. Occasionally, someone asks a question about the game, and if I know the answer, I tell them.

 

I made a post a few days ago asking for people who play in the early morning on Jedi Covenant to start aa morning heroic/whatever group. I GOT NO ONE.

 

Stop raging about how none of you have any time to do anything now that you can't solo and look around. Stop being so anti-social and rude (you know, like these mythical people that you won't group up with), and try doing heroics with another guy.

 

I may be harsh and blunt on these forums, but I'm asking you to run a heroic with me. I'm a great tank, and even after the nerf, my lvl 20 influence Xalek is better then nothing. Bring your favorite dps character and we'll go obliterate the enemy, or something. COMEON!

 

it seems you require daddy bioware to make other kids play with you. thats ok with you. its like having your mother tie a porkchop around your neck to get the dog to play with you. if you are a reasonably social person you can find a guild full of people that will team with you and you wont need it to be forced on you. I dont want to team with you if you do any of the many things that drive many other players up the wall. like needing on everything, like running ahead and pulling the next room. like going afk every other fight. the list goes on and on. some of us want to solo at our own pace. My wife is recovering from a heart attack and bypass surgery, sometimes I have to leave the kbd with little or no notice. I will not inflict this on a team, I dont want to be "that guy". same reason I dont que for flashpoints or join OPs. It wouldnt be fair to the team, so let me solo and we can both have fun.

[ivanhedgehog]

The game is all about story just ask BW. The story is SOLO, all of the sudden you want people to group up? That really doesnt make sense. There are raids and heroic FPs for group content. Theres even a group finder.

 

People are pissed because BW sells a solo story game and then on a whim destroys the enjoyment of soloing for many many people.

 

They just made the game less fun because it lines up with "their vision" Who the hell wants to pay for a game that is less fun by design?

 

their vision has cataracts

[Tarkashae]

it seems you require daddy bioware to make other kids play with you.

 

Have you read what I've been saying? Where have I said that people shouldn't be able to do solo content?

 

I asked why people needed to solo heroic content. (what purpose does solo mode not fulfill that heroic does)

 

I asked why it was so terrible to group up.

 

if you are a reasonably social person you can find a guild full of people that will team with you

 

How do you know this? I work third shift, I play at 8AM eastern time. I'm not even looking for a guild, just warm bodies to do heroics with. Sheesh.

 

 

There is a disconnect here. I get that there are horrible people and you don't want to play with them. That's totally cool.

 

How will you know? Wouldn't it be awesome if you found a really good player to play with? Yet you are so vehement in your rejection of the possible bad that you shut out all the good too.

 

That's OK, I guess...was hoping I could get people to at least consider a different possibility.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Tarkashae

[Eurydemus]

I don't mind grouping, but I never felt compelled to do so unless it was out of necessity (like for that stupid Dromund Kas Heroic where you have to kill the guy in the Dark Temple and he takes an eternity to respawn). I could solo all the content I was regularly engaged in pre-companion nerf and - outside of Flashpoints - I still can with the recent changes.

 

Perhaps if I'm in a guild I'd be more willing to run with people.

[RebelTelevision]

I mostly solo, but I also think the nerf has been blown out of proportion.

 

Yeah, I'm here for the story. And those Heroic 2s don't contain a lot of story. The nerf makes those story mobs take longer to kill, but not unplayably so.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Why can't you group with people?

 

I work full time, I got 2 dogs and a cat to deal with. I only have a couple hours a day to play games.

 

Yet, I don't see the problem with most of the other people in the games I play. I get groups for heroic content a a daily basis, and most of the time, they are NOT terrible, rude jerks. We just do the dungeon/flashpoint, say thanks for the group, and move on. Occasionally, someone asks a question about the game, and if I know the answer, I tell them.

 

I made a post a few days ago asking for people who play in the early morning on Jedi Covenant to start aa morning heroic/whatever group. I GOT NO ONE.

 

Stop raging about how none of you have any time to do anything now that you can't solo and look around. Stop being so anti-social and rude (you know, like these mythical people that you won't group up with), and try doing heroics with another guy.

 

I may be harsh and blunt on these forums, but I'm asking you to run a heroic with me. I'm a great tank, and even after the nerf, my lvl 20 influence Xalek is better then nothing. Bring your favorite dps character and we'll go obliterate the enemy, or something. COMEON!

 

Whilst I am pushing upper middle age, and we have grandkids staying over a fair amount of time, I consider my game style to be currently far from casual, however, I personally dislike grouping, for anything other than PVP, and even that annoys me sometimes, it due to the fact that I don't give a rats about listening to people whine in groupchat. Other players, usually, are nothing more than better than average AI as far as I am concerned. When I was younger, playing UO etc, of course things were different, and to be fair, in those niche gaming markets, most people were decent, in the modern MMO, a lot are complete bell whiffs who I have zero interest in.

Edited November 20, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen