Companion Change Feedback

[JourrnoRush]

indeed, that does seem to be a very strange attitude to have. thankfully forums generally only make up a small volume of a games player base. regular posters do tend to represent the more extreme attitudes, and opinions, in an mmo, tending to stand out more in the forum than in the actual game, were they are very much a whisper in the general buzz of busy play.

 

The majority of players, aka those who don't use the forums, are most likely indifferent. They probably see the change, then like an average intelligent human being, adapts to the changes. Both sides of this argument (myself included at one point) were more concerned about being the winning side versus trying to find a middle ground to make MOST people happy.

 

Hopefully, BW makes the best decision that keeps some solo content challenging and some solo content easy.

If there is going to be an achievement attached to something for soloing, then it should be difficult. I would hope most would agree with this.

[Lord_Sleepy]

The majority of players, aka those who don't use the forums, are most likely indifferent. They probably see the change, then like an average intelligent human being, adapts to the changes. Both sides of this argument (myself included at one point) were more concerned about being the winning side versus trying to find a middle ground to make MOST people happy.

 

Hopefully, BW makes the best decision that keeps some solo content challenging and some solo content easy.

If there is going to be an achievement attached to something for soloing, then it should be difficult. I would hope most would agree with this.

 

I still personally think that allowing the individual to decide how buffed or nerfed the companions are would make the most people happy, and of course if they did that I would so want an achievement for doing the starfortress with maximum buff called 'it'll buff out" and have one for the total nerf also (Yes, I would work to get both, but want to do it on as I want to to prepare) Maybe call it "nuke 'em from orbit" or something.

 

But I want all groups to be able to play in the way they find enjoyable without messing others enjoyment up.

[JourrnoRush]

I still personally think that allowing the individual to decide how buffed or nerfed the companions are would make the most people happy, and of course if they did that I would so want an achievement for doing the starfortress with maximum buff called 'it'll buff out" and have one for the total nerf also (Yes, I would work to get both, but want to do it on as I want to to prepare) Maybe call it "nuke 'em from orbit" or something.

 

But I want all groups to be able to play in the way they find enjoyable without messing others enjoyment up.

 

That would be a fair compromise. Having achievements on both end of the spectrum would make MOST people happy.

 

Though, lets not kid ourselves. There would STILL be people advocating for the "hard" achievement to be nerfed to their lower level of skill.

 

I just hope BW can meet both parties on this issue.

[positronics]

The majority of players, aka those who don't use the forums, are most likely indifferent. They probably see the change, then like an average intelligent human being, adapts to the changes. Both sides of this argument (myself included at one point) were more concerned about being the winning side versus trying to find a middle ground to make MOST people happy.

 

Hopefully, BW makes the best decision that keeps some solo content challenging and some solo content easy.

If there is going to be an achievement attached to something for soloing, then it should be difficult. I would hope most would agree with this.

 

Except, we know the majority was against 4.0.2. because BW made an unprecedented about-face days after the patch when the unsub numbers hit.

 

The correct direction for BW to go is to plug their ears against the whiny grinder class in the future and probably invoke a Costanza Rule about their wants. I've read grinders saying they'd rather have this game fail than appeal to 'casuals', which is ludicrous.

[Lord_Sleepy]

That would be a fair compromise. Having achievements on both end of the spectrum would make MOST people happy.

 

Though, lets not kid ourselves. There would STILL be people advocating for the "hard" achievement to be nerfed to their lower level of skill.

 

I just hope BW can meet both parties on this issue.

 

There probably would be people wanting the hard one nerfed, and I would be against that as much as I am for what I am for lol

 

But I probably wouldn't notice, after Wednesday probably going back to not a forum person again.

[JourrnoRush]

Except, we know the majority was against 4.0.2. because BW made an unprecedented about-face days after the patch when the unsub numbers hit.

 

The correct direction for BW to go is to plug their ears against the whiny grinder class in the future and probably invoke a Costanza Rule about their wants. I've read grinders saying they'd rather have this game fail than appeal to 'casuals', which is ludicrous.

 

The majority want something that is fair, at least I would hope so. The " whiner grinder" class, I believe want content they enjoy doing to be a little bit challenging. There are some who would go that extreme of wanting the game to fail because they didn't get it their way. Just like there are, using your labels, "whiny lower skilled players" who would see this game fail because its too hard.

 

Players shouldn't want to ruin others experiences just so they get what they want. We should all aim to please both sides of this issue.

 

The correct direction for BW is to make companions good enough to complete solo content and not too OP that the game becomes a joke. Hopefully Tuesday makes most people happy.

[Ghisallo]

Except, we know the majority was against 4.0.2. because BW made an unprecedented about-face days after the patch when the unsub numbers hit.

 

The correct direction for BW to go is to plug their ears against the whiny grinder class in the future and probably invoke a Costanza Rule about their wants. I've read grinders saying they'd rather have this game fail than appeal to 'casuals', which is ludicrous.

 

Well thats a BIG guess, probably fueled by a little hubris. It couldn't just be the fact that people were angry and giving voice to their opinions or anything? I mean hell I saw people saying "I am unsubbing" here when they said the same thing at the Slot Machine debacle.

 

That said if you expect a full reversion back to the original companions I can actually 100% promise you that, as an example, heal values will NOT be reverted back to original values. They are putting in something that amounts to a middle ground in the hopes of "just" annoying everyone. Annoyed people still pay and thus play but if it is a full reversion that you seek and nothing else will do, you will be just as angry on Tuesday.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Dawnblabe]

Instead of doing the tired old buff and nerf cycle with your companions.

 

Give them three different settings........low power, normal and over powered that the players can set. This allows the player to decide how powerful his companion is. You can also add some sort of reward for using low power....IE achievement or item to tempt players to use that setting. Don't use for PVP just use the normal setting for that to make it fair.

 

Just an idea likely will get shot down and torn up

[mrsrachelm]

Your Level: 65

Item rating: 208's not augmented

Discipline: Sniper (Also, Sage, Sorc, Gunslinger, Damage Trooper, Damage Jedi Knight, Damage Sith Warrior)

Companion: Lana, Senya, Treek, HK, Theron, (basically any that were 30-35 influence)

Companion Role: Healer (especially as that is what I use the most), DPS, and Tank

Companion Influence: All above were at influence level 30- 35

Missions/Play Experience: Solo SF = no problems

 

Heroic SF = forget about it without a group

 

Planetary H2+'s = Lower level planets okay but VERY QUICKLY becomes like slogging

thru knee-deep mud. Healer can't keep up. Spends more time

healing themselves in groups of mobs.

 

Mid - High level planets absolutely a miserable experience that makes the mandatory

Alliance grind an absolute chore. HATE it! Won't do it. Won't continue to play if it stays

this way, period.

 

Over-all Experience: I've sub'd since launch, have Legacy perks, etc. I am a casual player but I'm not a poor player. I have done group content and solo content since launch. I want to group when I want to not when I'm forced to because of gated material or to do the storyline. I especially do not want to be forced to group to do the mid-high level H2 planetary grind and I do not feel players should be punished for not having Operations and Heroic gear to enable them to do said planetary H2's, or be forced to run a tank toon which are the ones who are most often saying how they can still do it so "L2P!". If I wanted to roll a tank toon, and I NEVER have, I would have. All my toons are DPS/Damage toons. None of them are survivable now.

 

I do not PvP because I HATE it and resented having to PvP in order to get specific companions based on the concern that future companions and/or content is gated behind them.

 

Bottom line: If playing and grinding is going to be made to be a chore due to wimpy companions in all three skill areas, I and my family who all sub, will be taking our sub and cartel coin purchase money elsewhere.

 

My husband is a brand new sub. No Legacy yet. He is low 20's. He is HATING the changes. He was having so much fun prior to the update. Now he feels cheated. He too is very angry. He feels we were baited by a promise then had the rug pulled out.

Edited November 21, 2015 by mrsrachelm

[Ghisallo]

Instead of doing the tired old buff and nerf cycle with your companions.

 

Give them three different settings........low power, normal and over powered that the players can set. This allows the player to decide how powerful his companion is. You can also add some sort of reward for using low power....IE achievement or item to tempt players to use that setting. Don't use for PVP just use the normal setting for that to make it fair.

 

Just an idea likely will get shot down and torn up

 

Thta doesnt work in an MMO like this.

 

Here is the issue with an MMO like SWTOR.

1. Budget based on income derived from Subscription/f2p hybrid model.

2. Shared persistent world by all players.

3. Limts to the amount of content that can be generated.

 

They can only develop so much content and people who are not playing are not paying under their financial model.

 

As such when they develop content for this game they will actually use metrics to determine the amount of time the "average" player takes to complete the content. They will then set their development cycles around this estimation in order to minimize the amount of "I am bored there is nothing else to do" thoughts which results in people not playing.

 

A difficulty slider first, when implemented, makes any such calculation impossible. After it is implemented it speeds up the completion of the content to such a high pace that not only is there no way to develop enough content to stop people from getting bored, there is no way to develop enough content to even minimize the downtime between content launches.

 

Sliders work in SP games because the costs of making one are no where near what they are for an MMOs over the long term. SP games get developed... you sell em... make your profit. Start making the next and it comes out when it comes out. I mean just look at Fallout 4... Fallout 3 came out in 2008. If people finish the game in one day it doesn't matter because you got their 50 bucks.

 

The MMO requires 24 hour servers, in game support, constant bug fixes and content updates that come out multiple times a year and what we would call a "bonafide expac" every 12-18 months. Because of these dynamics sliders would KILL the financial model of the MMO an thus the MMO itself as there would not be enough people playing and thus paying consistently to keep the lights on.

 

Sometimes what makes something work financially is something we as players do not like BUT if the game is not financially successful we have no game at all. To give you an idea of the expense... When WoW was doing their BIG marketing blitz during the WotLK years they literally were breaking even. They had MILLIONs of players but between the costs of maintaining the game itself and the money they were paying for Primetime TV commercials and all the shelf space to squeeze out competition they had very little profit.

 

Now maybe this means the days of the MMOs are numbered. Perhaps this age of participation awards (which most child psychologists say is a bad thing) and instant gratification encouraged by the internet and the idea of "if it's digital it should be free" is bring that day to us...but then we should simply give the genre an honorable death and not kill it painfully by trying to turn it into something it simply can not be.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Kahiel]

First, thanks for giving us the insight to the developers goals for game progression. Between reading the patch notes and comments on the forums, I had a different opinion of how things were supposed to work, especially the distinction between Star Fortress [solo] and Star Fortress [Heroic]. Let's see if I can give you some helpful feedback.

 

 

 

Your level - 17 (18 leveled up during the process)

Roughly Average Item Rating - 46.6

Discipline - Rage Juggernaut

Companion - Vetter

Companion role - Heal

Companion Influence level - 10

Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?) - DK [Heroic 2+] Saving Face and Personal Challenge,

Your personal experience while playing this content - I specifically ran these the night before the patch after hearing about the upcoming nerf. I would say it was easy, but I managed to clear the two heroics with my companion without difficulty. After the patch, I ran the heroics again (yea weeklys) and it took longer, but I didn't experience any difficulties completing them (didn't die, Vette didn't die, didn't get the Low Health warnings for either).

 

 

Your level - 65

Roughly Average Item Rating - 199

Discipline - Combat Sentinel

Companion - Lana

Companion role - Heal

Companion Influence level - 15

Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?) Star Fortress Solo and Heroic.

Your personal experience while playing this content - I've run SF Solo several times prior to the patch. Like the H2+ above, I wouldn't call it easy, but I cleared it without much difficulty. After the patch, the last run through was much more difficult. Lana died just as I was finishing the Super Trooper. IMHO I would place SF Solo as a little more difficult than a standard H2+. I didn't try the SF Heroic prior to the patch. After the patch I cannot complete it. It is challenging to get to the Super Trooper. I could probably take the Trooper if it weren't for the adds. My problem is that without taunts or adequate CC abilities I can't mitigate the adds attacking Lana. I can't "tank" the damage without a healer so I can't put Lana in a different role. If the intent was to make the Heroic version require two players plus companions, I could see that. I'm not sure how gearing or influence can provide enough strength to solo it past that point.

 

I wanted to update some information. I started running more planetary H2+ missions and ran into problems. On Nar Shadaa I had a difficult time completing some of the Heroics. Using T7 (Inf - 16), Treek (Inf - 6) and Lana (Inf - 16) I had a hard time with Elite and Champions. Managing my rotations and defensive cooldowns, it was touchy a on a few of the heroics.

[Avaery]

Please give us your feedback, and we simply ask you to be as constructive as possible. Include information such as:

 

Your level

65

Roughly Average Item Rating

208

Discipline

Sorceror / Lightning

Companion

Lana

Companion role

Tank: Struggles to tank when taking on 2 or more elites plus trash. Barely survives against Champion without support / assistance. Fails to pull agro 50% of the time especially ranged attackers. Before the patch I could use all three roles. After patch only the Tank.

Damage: Got me killed a lot. I pull agro and die in seconds from spike damage.

Healer: Worst than tank role. Can't heal enough to sustain me through spikes.

 

Companion Influence level

25

Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?)

Solo and H2 SF was enjoyable prior to patch. Companion was great, tanked like a boss, and the tedium of slogging through multiple waves of mobs and runs of solo/H2 SF was made tolerable because I could switch my brain off and do the content at ease.

Your personal experience while playing this content

Before patch i had a lot of fun. I only have a couple of hours per week to play since I work nearly 60 hours a week. I joined a few months prior to 4.0 to play the class missions that i missed, and the 12x exp made it very quick and enjoyable. After 4.0 landed i thought the changes to companions were great and I liked being able to pick the role of the companion rather than being locked with just one class. I really liked Lana and being able to choose the role to match my class was great. I would have loved if the game continued that way. I could never do heroics before 4.0 because group finder and LFG takes too long, and I don't have time to wait for groups.

 

In the first week i got through all of the planetary heroics solo and they took between 5-10 minutes each. As an average player in non-raid gear this felt sufficiently enjoyable and some progress was achieved. I still couldn't participate in raids because I dont have time for that but at least I could enjoy the story/daily grind.

 

Each night i could probably do 5-6 H2s before calling the night (roughly 1 hour) so committing to that schedule I could get the weekly done with a few extra hours and help on the weekend. It was fun and i felt like i was progressing enough despite the limited time to play.

 

Post patch. It takes about 20-30 minutes to do one planetary H2. My companion and I are die a lot more and waste time running back to the place that i previously died (only to realise monsters have respawned).

I tried throwing CCs and stuns after seeking advice from guildies but planetary H2s have just become a hard, tedious, boring grind fest.

 

In conclusion, post patch is not fun at all. I understand if you intend the game to be challenging for some people who want hard mode, but I'm afraid I don't enjoy it.

 

With the arrival of new games I'm definitely dropping the subscription and picking up another game worth my time. I mean, the last three months was terrific, but the latest patch is a killjoy. To put things into perspective I am about 2 weeks to the end of subscriber status and was considering the 180 day renewal. I certainly won't be doing that now.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Avaery

[tmwfte]

Part of me thinks that the "solution" will be GSIsus Droid for sale on the Cartel Market. Only 8000 cc.

[Razdek]

Part of me thinks that the "solution" will be GSIsus Droid for sale on the Cartel Market. Only 8000 cc.

 

Or just make treek and HK 4.0 oppness with their original animations.

[tmwfte]

Or just make treek and HK 4.0 oppness with their original animations.

 

That wouldn't net BioWare as much "new" money.

[Albertwang]

With a lvl 19 Corso Riggs on my scrapper DPS scoundrel I had a very difficult time with the Oricon heroic. Luckily I could shealth but no way I could fight those mobs there.

 

Definitely I prefer the old companions like before.

[AngFour]

HALLELUJAH!

 

 

Now please just consider making it so that you only have to complete Solo Star Fortress to finish the storyline, and Heroic Star Fortress is just an extra. Please don't nerf Heroic SF while buffing companions--that just takes away fun.

 

 

THIS. It's jarring that the entire KotFE story is meant to be soloed, and then a major part of the story, destroying the Star Fortresses, requires at least another person unless you're extremely skilled. And for people who made instant 60's are not going to be overly familiar with their classes in the few hours they've been playing the class. On top of this, we're expected to do this for multiple characters if we're the type who plays alts.

 

I'm fine with Heroic Star Fortress being officially called a Flashpoint for extra phat lewt, but for story progression, I would like to have the solo mode progress the storyline for less reward.

[DarthEnrique]

On top of that the statement by Eric that players should be able to solo any 2+ heroic with their comp ins't helping either since as of now it is not true. Especially for those who are low level with low level influence companions.

 

You're probably right. And I'll be among them if it's bad... Lol!

[DarthEnrique]

The problem is that when Eric says in the OP here...

 

 

 

how is it unreasonable to at least ask "are you using the right rotations? Are you using CC and interrupts?" etc Because while I did see some jerks say "l2p" noob and such I also saw people upset with the changes getting their panties in a bunch over simple questions like these.

 

Lets be honest, the loudest voices against the nerfs were from people who often were at least honest and said they did not think the solo portion of the game should involve progression or "knowledge of your class". They thought steamrolling was appropriate. I will give those people kudos for honesty.

Honestly I didn't know we were suppose to learn about our class... Never knew that at all. I'm just playing the game for the storyline that's really it... And honestly I don't want to "rotate" my companion, I like having Theron's hot *** too look at. I romanticized with him for a reason... Hello! I want to be able to use him all the time cause I'm serious Theron is a site for soar eyes when you got to face ugly *** monsters or Rodians and when I found out he was going to come back for KOTFE and was going to be a companion I was a freaking twitter and decided that he was going to be the comp I always used. My story, my character, my choice, Bioware needs to respect that....

[DarthEnrique]

Instead of doing the tired old buff and nerf cycle with your companions.

 

Give them three different settings........low power, normal and over powered that the players can set. This allows the player to decide how powerful his companion is. You can also add some sort of reward for using low power....IE achievement or item to tempt players to use that setting. Don't use for PVP just use the normal setting for that to make it fair.

 

Just an idea likely will get shot down and torn up

 

Amen for choices!

[DarthEnrique]

You know you'd think people cancelling their subscriptions would say "You made a mistake Bioware unnerf the companions." Honestly how annoying is it that we're going to get "item buffs" instead of what a vast majority are asking. Not to mention that the timing of this nerfing is really bad what with so many people going to play newly released games such as SW: Battlefront or Fallout 4. I knew we'd lose people to new games but now those who have unsubscribed and quit playing are probably looking for another game to play... So losing customers and probably people who've been on this game a long time is not important? Yeah who's got brains? You don't want to lose money Bioware duh!

[DarthEnrique]

Also, bring back HK-55! I miss "meatbags"! "Organics" is just not the same... *sniff* RIP HK-55 you are missed...

[Alssaran]

Except, we know the majority was against 4.0.2. because BW made an unprecedented about-face days after the patch when the unsub numbers hit.

 

No. The people who are the most vocal at the moment.

 

Most vocal does not mean majority. People still haven't figured that out after four years.

[DarthEnrique]

No. The people who are the most vocal at the moment.

 

Most vocal does not mean majority. People still haven't figured that out after four years.

 

Apparently you have not heard the old statement "Actions speak louder than words." have you?

[Lord_Sleepy]

Thta doesnt work in an MMO like this.

 

Here is the issue with an MMO like SWTOR.

1. Budget based on income derived from Subscription/f2p hybrid model.

2. Shared persistent world by all players.

3. Limts to the amount of content that can be generated.

 

They can only develop so much content and people who are not playing are not paying under their financial model.

 

As such when they develop content for this game they will actually use metrics to determine the amount of time the "average" player takes to complete the content. They will then set their development cycles around this estimation in order to minimize the amount of "I am bored there is nothing else to do" thoughts which results in people not playing.

 

A difficulty slider first, when implemented, makes any such calculation impossible. After it is implemented it speeds up the completion of the content to such a high pace that not only is there no way to develop enough content to stop people from getting bored, there is no way to develop enough content to even minimize the downtime between content launches.

 

Sliders work in SP games because the costs of making one are no where near what they are for an MMOs over the long term. SP games get developed... you sell em... make your profit. Start making the next and it comes out when it comes out. I mean just look at Fallout 4... Fallout 3 came out in 2008. If people finish the game in one day it doesn't matter because you got their 50 bucks.

 

The MMO requires 24 hour servers, in game support, constant bug fixes and content updates that come out multiple times a year and what we would call a "bonafide expac" every 12-18 months. Because of these dynamics sliders would KILL the financial model of the MMO an thus the MMO itself as there would not be enough people playing and thus paying consistently to keep the lights on.

 

Sometimes what makes something work financially is something we as players do not like BUT if the game is not financially successful we have no game at all. To give you an idea of the expense... When WoW was doing their BIG marketing blitz during the WotLK years they literally were breaking even. They had MILLIONs of players but between the costs of maintaining the game itself and the money they were paying for Primetime TV commercials and all the shelf space to squeeze out competition they had very little profit.

 

Now maybe this means the days of the MMOs are numbered. Perhaps this age of participation awards (which most child psychologists say is a bad thing) and instant gratification encouraged by the internet and the idea of "if it's digital it should be free" is bring that day to us...but then we should simply give the genre an honorable death and not kill it painfully by trying to turn it into something it simply can not be.

 

But, how many alts do you have? do you like leveling them up also? Do you intend on making more characters?

I only have 2 pages of alts, want to get them all leveled and already planning my next character, no, being able to rush through the content isn't stopping me from playing, it will have me leveling alts and making more. If it is tedious to level and grind then yes, only count how long it takes me to get 1 character through it because that would be all I would bother with.