Petition to Change Modifications

[Myxam]

More Specifically the Tanking ones, from Defense to Shield Rating on the basis of Shield Rating be a more universally desired stat than Defense Rating.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[wadecounty]

Here's the problem with the whole tank gearing situation.

 

Pre 2.0, they had 3 tank stats, and which tank you were depended on what got boosted by your tree mostly, since force/tech attacks AND internal/elemental damage had no interaction with tank stats. Basically, Juggs went defense cause that was what their tree emphasized, Sins could go a bit of defense but were helped more by absorb to complement their dark ward, and PT's went shielding to complement heat blast.

 

2.0, that all changed when they decided for some reason to make force/tech attacks shieldable, but not defendable. Now you had a situation where one tanking stat was useless for a lot of attacks and even some entire encounters, yet you had one of the three tanks dependent on that stat. And that imbalance remained for the entirety of the 2.0-4.0 content. PT's held the #1 spot the whole time as most desired tank on most fights, with Juggernauts only surpassing Sins until Sins received their DR buffs, then they fell pretty far into third place. Saber Reflect was very nice for certain fights/mechanics, but overall you'd much rather have a PT or Sin than a Jugg, and a large part of that was the stats cooked into the class.

 

So now what they've done is set up a situation where instead of punishing the one tank that has to gear somewhat for defense, they make all tanks gear for it, and only let PT's/Sins customize the amount of shield/absorb values they have in order to best complement their skill trees. I think this is a better approach to what they took previous, and most of the tank mitigation charts bare that out, as Juggs come out slightly on top, but in fights where it is mostly force/tech damage (which there are still plenty), they will fall behind Sins/PT's, rather than almost always being behind the other 2 tanks.

 

That being said, is this the optimal solution? Not really, because you still have a tank stat that is useless against a lot of stuff, especially in PvP.

 

My proposal in the past has been to add a small resist chance to the defense stat. Not a 1:1 ratio for how much defense you get, but maybe 3:1, so for example having 30% Defense would equal 10% resist. Because of how powerful resist is, its at least something you'd have to put some thought into, and it would finally give value to the defense stat in PvP (shielding would stop more damage, but a key resist on a stun could make a bigger difference). And it would finally give accuracy some meaning in PvP for Sorcs/Operatives as well, although they'd require less than white damage classes still.

 

That being said, if they made a change like this, then sure, allow shielding to return on mods, and let tanks mix and match to pick a good loadout. But until then, I'm against changing it, as all it would do is let PT's/Sins once again be the de facto tanks for almost all content, when right now its actually somewhat balanced. Because even with defense being forced on mods, PT's/Sins will still always be way better shield/absorb tanks than Juggs, and that STILL gives them an advantage on some fights that a Jugg can never make up.

Edited November 19, 2015 by wadecounty

[OMGITSJAD]

-snip-

Exactly. Sure you could just make Shield be the secondary stat, but then that would benefit Sins and PT's by a ton and leave Juggs behind again(I'm so glad I've been able to do everything on my Jugg after a stint as playing PT halfway through 4.0 cause hydraulics too stronk. ). Defense would be made even worse as you'd baseline have a higher shield chance which would make absorb better too...it would be nice having more consistent mitigation but it could create more problems than the current situation min/max-wise. One thing we can at least do is trade defense for health, which can be more reliable than a chance at a shield or a defend. I would love if defense boosted resist chance as well, mainly because the Ravage stacks would make resist chance more reliable than 11% but...

Edited November 19, 2015 by OMGITSJAD

[ThatGuyToo]

I expect kbn and dipstick to weigh in on tank stats. They tend to look at the details of how tanks fair in the higher conetent and find the strengths and weaknesses to the designs. The devs have changed aspects of the game due to their findings.

 

They should have info out soon, if not already. They are fairly detailed.

 

Edit: if they did change this so shield was a secondary stay they would likely reduce he much shield we get per point invested. OP doesn't suggest otherwise and its logical shield would be nerfed if it became more available for balance purposes.

 

Additionally, on my PT I've felt just fine. Have not seen an issue an issue but I've not looked at parsing details.

Edited December 2, 2015 by ThatGuyToo

[JPileggi]

It kind of sucks being forced to stack defence as a shadow tank. Was this change really needed? I've only just come back after taking a break from the game last year and tanking was pretty balanced from what I saw back then although shadows and pt had a small advantage.

 

One of the things I love about this game is how easy it is to micromanage and trade stats, that element of control really appeals to me. Without it, it feels like a bit of a cop out, I'm currently sitting at 1600+ defence and there is nothing I can do about it though I suppose its a needed evil in the name of balance? The change doesn't affect gameplay but if you're a stat nerd like me its a bit of a disappointment.

[JPileggi]

(double post) Edited December 21, 2015 by JPileggi

[dipstik]

i somewhat agree that putting shield into the secondary slot may put juggs at a disadvantage, but augments should be able to remedy that. i think i would prefer defense giving resist. i have had numbers posted since october for 4.0 (thread is on 2nd page now, so it could use a bump http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=842859 ). unfortunatley, i dont have very much hm/nim data, so no internal/elemental damage is being taken into account which skews the overall mitigation numbers, which means comparing the classes by looking at squish numbers doesn't mean much.

 

i have been a fan of the dumbing down of gearing, mostly because players are no longer heavily punished for improper gearing. for example, the only tank that has varible amount of shield/absorb for most fights (0 to 70% melee damage) is the sin, and the change is very slight (1378 to 1362 shield). the other classes have the same gear for most of the fights.

 

what i dont like is 198 absorb B mods giving better mitigation than 220B mods for 2 of the 3 classes. funny thing is, even if the defense gave resisit, these calcs wouldnt show it since i am assuming no internal/elemental due to lack of data. part of me just wants to assume 10% internal/elemental, just so its accounted for in some form.

Edited December 22, 2015 by dipstik

[Lalainnia]

Only reason I don't see defense increasing resist chance is number #1 offender would be pvp in some shape or form unless it was separated stat wise for pvp and pve I could see ppl stacking def mods to reach something silly like 40% or high def/resist chance. While i personally like the idea of having def do something better it seems like it can get messy and bioware sucks at implementing new stuff in general so it might break and we might end up with def chance increasing damage taken or something absurd.

[FerkWork]

I also just want a gearing method that makes sense. Why is the most commod method using new gear is 220 B Mods, Mk-2 Enhancements, 220 Comm Implants and Ear, and only using 224 Armorin gs, Barrel, and Relics.

 

Shouldn't we get useful 224 gear?