low level player reaction to the nerf

[sjscorpiomark]

I have posted on a few different threads but wanted to put all my thoughts in one place.

 

Do NOT compare legacy 65 characters with datachrons, presence buffs and rank 50 comps to me. I don't have any of those perks. My experience is from essentially a brand new player since I re-rolled all new characters in 4.0. I play this game for the story and to relax not grind and stress out about every pull. I raided for years and am just over the stress and frustration (i.e. challenge) of competitive end game content you can have your hard modes give me back my easy mode.

 

background in SWTOR

I played at launch for a few months until I hit my personal grind limit around level 30 on 4 characters. I was able to complete the solo missions no problem but heroics were always a 30-90 minute wait to get a group together to run. I just decided it was not how i wanted to play so I un-subbed.

I came Back into 4.0 for the story/solo centric play advertised and after seeing how nice it was to be able to solo content effeciently and even H2s were quick and easy I re-subbed. Now 4.02 comes out and it's back to the old 'forced grouping'. I don't want to, I was sold on the advertisement and play I experienced when I came back.

level appropriate H2s in questing reward gear and the limp noodle healer companion cant keep up to the incoming damage even while not pulling more than one group.

 

 

so my take on 4.0 and 4.02

4.0 promised and delivered a casual fun solo experience. the 'grind' was fine as you could go through the missions quickly and without too much effort. I could do level appropriate H2s and not constantly be near death, usually I was at 80%+ health. Was that OP maybe but it was fun and our characters are supposed to be something 'special' right not just Johnny from down the street but a hero. part of being a hero historically is being bigger than life, exceptional, a kick *** and take names person.

 

were healer comps OP in 4.0 yes they were slightly OP. but that is one of the things that made it so casual friendly.

 

4.0.2 comes out with the only warning of the impending nerf bomb posted on the forums which I was not reading regularly, no official blurb on the launcher news where everyone would have seen it. The release is buggy as hell requiring many hours to download after extra hours of maintenance.

 

I finally get into the game post 4.0.2 and do some story quests, okay not that bad taking more damage and taking a bit longer to get through stuff I can deal with this I think a couple groups then have to use my resting heal to fill up.

 

Then I hit up some Drummon Kass H2s on my level 18 BH and rank 8 Mako (remember no influence, presence, datachron whatever else buffs on a new legacy). All I have are the random greens dropped or awarded from planet quests so my gear was pretty bad. Well first pull of a gold and silver and I die before the silver goes down. Mako can't heal through 1 gold and 1 silver. ***? change her to tank and try again she keeps aggro long enough for me to blast down the silver and start on the gold then she folds, and I get my face eaten. So off to the fleet to buy gear, well Cartel anyway get a set or armor and weapns then fill it with level 18 enhancements, armors, mods and barrel. So now I am in what is essentially BiS gear at level 18 right. I go back and start again this time my DPS has increased enough to make it through and only be down to 40-50% health each pull. doable but in no way resembled easy mode or casual friendly like it was in 4.0 and only after spending CC on a full set of gear and upgrades. Many new players either don't have the cash to buy the CC or don't want to spend it on a game and they should not need to. A lot of this has to do with limited CC/stuns being only level 18 but I am level appropriate for the H2 so I should be able to do it right? it's not only for down-ranked level 65s.

 

immediate solution:

Should they revert the nerf to 4.0 levels? until a better solution is found yes I think they should immediately revert the nerf.

 

More perminent solution:

Make the down-ranked companions an option that can be turned on/off in the preferences. A better solution in my opinion is have a slider that adjusts the companion's scaling factor and quest reward scaling as well. Have a minumum and maximum value derived from the 4.0.2 and 4.0 companion strengths. the player can can customize the strength of their companions and at the same time use that to scale the credits/reputation gained from kills and missions. so if you turn your companion all the way up to 4.0 levels your credit/rep rewards are scaled back 25% and if you weaken your companion to 4.0.2 levels you scale up the rewards by 25%. that way people wanting an easy experience through the game can have it, albiet with reduced rewards while those wanting a more challenging play though can do that with a bonus of rewards.

 

 

Final thoughts:

Whether right or wrong my interpretation, and I believe the general interpretation of the 4.0 advertisement message was come back and play it will be a solo and casual friendly game now (which it was in 4.0). But after 4.0.2 it's not casual friendly by any stretch of the definition.

 

I have cancelled my recurring sub and won't re-sub until a casual friendly mode is re-introduced either a flat return to 4.0 companions or the slider idea or something I have not thought of.

[Sarfux]

Pretty well thought out post. It was promised to be a more casual friendly fun experience in 4.0 and everything has been FANTASTIC with the expansion. Best expansion in the history of this game. Period. Everything about it.

 

I just don't get why they would nerf the companions so much?

[crimsiden]

mauahahahahahah ! Hard core games finally win for once jeebus christ, its a game not a movie gawd!

[WDreamer]

The slider option is a hella lot of work to create, integrate, and trouble shoot, possibly exponentially more than continuing to fiddle more with companion base stat scaling. Edited November 19, 2015 by WDreamer

[khonaan]

i agree with most if not everything the OP stated.

 

to the people wanting challenge, sorry, but the mechanics and physics of this game doesnt match what they want, they should go play something like Age of Conan, where the fight mechanics are second to none...

[sjscorpiomark]

mauahahahahahah ! Hard core games finally win for once jeebus christ, its a game not a movie gawd!

 

dictionary definition of game: an amusement or pastime

 

Whether the game is easy or hard it's still a game.

[sjscorpiomark]

The slider option is a hella lot of work to create, integrate, and trouble shoot, possibly exponentially more than continuing to fiddle more with companion base stat scaling.

 

yes I realize that but would be the best option I could come up with to satisfy both sides of the argument without having to compromise to a less happy total population.

[khonaan]

slider option is not bad, but players did have the option to dismiss their companions...

[Psicotic]

The slider option is a hella lot of work to create, integrate, and trouble shoot, possibly exponentially more than continuing to fiddle more with companion base stat scaling.

 

In fact dont be soo hard to do, i mean of course is work and not easy one, but you can simplify that maybe just a new option on settings and you can select by example 1) Casual 2) Hard 3) Elite where 1 = 100% on companion stats (not the OP ones but a good ones not actual) 2 = 60% less on companion stats 3 = actual nerf.

 

That way you dont need to create a new slider o button and at same time is all a matter to rest the % on the companion.

 

Just my 5 cents.

[Deamandred]

The slider option is a hella lot of work to create, integrate, and trouble shoot, possibly exponentially more than continuing to fiddle more with companion base stat scaling.

 

 

I have a feeling were going to have to deal with this issue until the release of the next chapter.

[SamAnders]

Yeah I re-rolled on a new server about a month ago or so. This patch sucks ***.

[Apache]

I have a feeling were going to have to deal with this issue until the release of the next chapter.

 

That's exactly whats going to happen.

 

With Thanksgiving, and Christmas right around the corner and BW's holliday Vacations, we wont see anything done until after the first of the year at the earliest, if we see anything done at all.

 

Lets face it. They suckered us. They took our money and ran. This Nerf is the new Norm.

[Drakhar]

That's exactly whats going to happen.

 

With Thanksgiving, and Christmas right around the corner and BW's holliday Vacations, we wont see anything done until after the first of the year at the earliest, if we see anything done at all.

 

Lets face it. They suckered us. They took our money and ran. This Nerf is the new Norm.

 

Completely agree, was all bait and switch, simple as that. They already said they were pretty much going to do nothing until after the holidays, and hyping up the game by mentioning the new star wars movie. This patch seems like they had it planned all along, they have already deleted several threads about people showing their displeasure. I don't trust this company anymore after seeing what has been happening the past couple days(and I was already squimish with the many bugs and 'balances' they did to classes before this patch. /shrug

[Johnmedgla]

mauahahahahahah ! Hard core games finally win for once jeebus christ, its a game not a movie gawd!

 

Ask the Hard Core Gamers how that worked out in Wildstar?

[Drudenfusz]

Ask the Hard Core Gamers how that worked out in Wildstar?

Hard core gamers are usually not that bright, I maen really, if one wants it more hard core one can set difficulties for themselves, like not using a companion or doing everything just in green gear, and so on. But no, they don't care about the challenge, they just want to make games suck for everybody.

[positronics]

mauahahahahahah ! Hard core games finally win for once jeebus christ, its a game not a movie gawd!

 

There's nothing hardcore about SWTOR, nor was there ever. You're not elite. You're a grinder. You have the vast time to grind to get the highest spec gear. Grats.

 

The hardest part of SWTOR, the ops, aren't even all that hard. Stand on certain parts of the floor. Do your rotations. Watch for cues. Holy, you have some great hardcore skillz there!

 

The casuals are the lifeblood of the game, and SWTOR promised a casual experience. It's what brought me back. it's what will have me leave, now that they've reneged on their promise.

[positronics]

Hard core gamers are usually not that bright, I maen really, if one wants it more hard core one can set difficulties for themselves, like not using a companion or doing everything just in green gear, and so on. But no, they don't care about the challenge, they just want to make games suck for everybody.

 

Cause it's not a hardcore experience they're after. There are way more difficult games out there. Playing SWTOR for the challenge of it is like playing baseball against a bunch of little kids. Complaining about the 4.0 companions was like complaining that the kids get to use t-ball stands. These 'hardcore' people are after being 'the best' through attrition, by grinding their way to a pinnacle of gear that puts them far ahead of the casual players. It's why they love this patch. It's putting the casuals way down.

 

The casual players built this game though, and the casual players will end this game when enough of them leave.

[Neoforcer]

This should indicate some thing i watch these forums every day since launch i am seeing people that have never posted complain in mass about this one issue the grind is now to much of a grind so they can make the person that feels a video game makes them feel like a hero and should be touch to se how big the e-peen is...

 

While people just starting out are like ok i am gone peace. Yep this game will make it another year

[Draewind]

I love your take on the game. There are mature people that want to relax and enjoy.

 

Yes, 4.0 was wonderful, though a lot of the video and companion frames and such were not fully thought out or implemented properly and the videos were not completed well with customized characters and companions (gone all together because of the work I can only suppose). Even the new "Companion and Contacts" frame was incomplete and not fully integrated with the Crew Skills frame which wasn't thought out at all. There were sooo many unfinished and lazy hacks in this expansion... but we loved it!

 

4.0.2

Now not so much. Fix the crap before you torture us more. Sniper has to use a non-existent ugly pistol and the companions have no customization in the videos... really thrown together with the least possible work and purely unprofessional.

 

When you find the game that gives us what this had promised... let us know!

[RogerApple]

mauahahahahahah ! Hard core games finally win for once jeebus christ, its a game not a movie gawd!

 

I don't know what they won. People will quit due to this. You honestly think the expansion came with enough content to keep everyone happy. That's right expect for a few chapters at the very end of class quests there's almost no reason to keep playing. The boring tedious grind is still boring. It was more fun to level ALT's during this period. Now people have taken that away from people as well.

 

Tell me exactly what hardcore have won. Before this expansion servers were light to moderate. I think they will go back. Because when people aren't having fun they stop playing the game. BW did a great thing allowing those to see more content. Giving players a choice. Now due to you and people like you who are rubbing the changes in our faces. How do you honestly expect people to stay subbed.

[JamieKirby]

For me, i do every single quest as i level up a character, so i am always over-levelled, so i haven't noticed the bad side yet, maybe i will when i roll my new character, i mean.....i usually buy enough rank 5 artefact quality gifts to get my companions up to Level 20 influence for the 10% crit chance, 50% or so mission speed up and the extra presence.

 

I might level up a character without those gifts and see how bad it really is.....i mean i am not a fan of challenge, especially when the rewards are not as high as the challenge, for example, if i die taking on an elite boss for a class quest and it wasn't due to my lack of skill or knowledge of my class, it was just challenging and all i got for it, is a few common data crystals? sorry, no...not worth the hassle.

[cambul]

Wow,

 

So like, they hooked me up with this most awesome land made of candy right? Told me it was my new home! Told me that here, I would be the boss, that the power was mine.. hey.. they even gave me the super sweet 'kick ***' candy floss fairy to hang with. Good times were had, foot was really put to *** with only a few scars to partially marr this glorious face, but hey its looks cool i in front of the other guys?

 

So few days back, im chilling out front with my hot fairy friend, and were just like reminic... reminis... talking about the recent fun we been and had, and BOOOOOM!! Everything goes dark right.. Like everything! It could have been hours or days, man it felt like weeks and still...... nothing!

 

After whatever or not amount of time has passed, the land fires up into brightness again, only something has changed, something is not quite as it was before? Then these crazy looking dudes turn up from nowhere, you know the type, suits, ties, shiny black shoes.. corporate! So me and the hot fairy friend, we get up to send them packing and within seconds.. SECONDS, she's like dead.. im like.. whoa man.. what the.. who the what.. hey dude lets tal..... and that was it, bag over my head followed by a thump and darkness.

 

Next thing i now, im in an oven, with assorted roast vegetables and feeling well and truly sage and onioned.

[Stoofa]

So all new players want a "super casual" experience - so one where they don't need to learn how to play, how to use interrupts, use stuns/knockbacks etc.?

Where either their DPS companion does all the work or their healing companion lets them tank and destroy vast groups of MOBs?

They effectively want to watch a movie, with you doing as little as possible to interact with it?

 

Sorry - these people have chosen the wrong game to play.

The experience for new players right now is similar to the game on release. A level of difficulty and the requirement to learn how to play your character. Sorry and all that, but if you haven't got the patience for that then you really shouldn't be bothering.

[AsarAnchti]

They effectively want to watch a movie, with you doing as little as possible to interact with it?

 

^^ This. Pre-patch 4.0 comp were doing all the job. It wasn't single player game. Even in SP games you have a challenge. But with OP comps it was like watching interactive movie - cutscene, OP healing comp kills most mobs, cutscene and so on.

 

I'm not an elitist (hell I'm average player at best), but come on. This is Bioware. Have you tried Dragon Age: Origins, on normal mode?

 

And about heroics. I admit I've just started with 9th chapter of KotFE so I don't comment on those. But old heroics were always a challenge at the appropriate level - but never impossible to finish even in green items. Do you really think that now the comps are worse than before 4.0? I'm asking seriously, because I'm curious.

[StarkHelsing]

^^ This. Pre-patch 4.0 comp were doing all the job. It wasn't single player game. Even in SP games you have a challenge. But with OP comps it was like watching interactive movie - cutscene, OP healing comp kills most mobs, cutscene and so on.

 

I'm not an elitist (hell I'm average player at best), but come on. This is Bioware. Have you tried Dragon Age: Origins, on normal mode?

 

And about heroics. I admit I've just started with 9th chapter of KotFE so I don't comment on those. But old heroics were always a challenge at the appropriate level - but never impossible to finish even in green items. Do you really think that now the comps are worse than before 4.0? I'm asking seriously, because I'm curious.

 

Dragon Age: Origins normal mode was a cake walk compared to some of those Belsavis Heroics. Crap, I'd gladly play hard mode DA:O right now... I might actually. Good idea.

 

 

As for the companions. Yeah, they do feel worse than before 4.0. I do recall someone posting numbers showing a drop in stats, etc. You'd have been better off slapping your character in the gear you chose and working for it than the presence bullpoop right now. They needed a nerf, gosh darn, but this was too much.

Edited November 19, 2015 by StarkHelsing