What people SHOULD be telling BW

[Ghisallo]

People are upset clearly but...

 

Clearly people are having different experiences. Some are saying "yes more challenging but can do everything I did on Monday" with healer Comps and others are saying "Useless". Useless/impossible/broken etc are not helpful under these circumstances because clearly that is not universal.

 

What would be helpful is

 

1. If you are having issues list Character level, stats, average gear level, class and spec.

2. if at lvl 65 where were you when you had the problem?

3. what role companion was in

The reason for the above is that the change to healing companions was NOT just a flat 50% or something. Presense and level sync have effects as well. So if you do fine, except on Makeb, the Makeb lvl sync mechanic may be the issue and not the nerf overall. If you presence is low perhaps they weighted presence to much into the equation?

 

If you were doing a heroic star fortress you may actually have less gear than they intended? Maybe the encounters need to be tweeked because they are more unforgiving against a particular class? As much as people don't want to hear it there will always be an optimal class/companion role team, maybe the role combination was the problem.

 

Just saying "this is impossible" and calling people who disagree elitists doesn't help them identify a problem. Simply demanding that it is completely reverted is not going happen either. If you have issues give details. Not only is it far more constructive for the devs, but a lot of the back and forth on these threads (that regrettably I even got trapped in) devolved into "I know you are but what am I arguments" which are not only counter productive for the Devs purposes but destructive to our community.

 

Thank you for reading.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo

[The_Wulff]

People are upset clearly but...

 

Clearly people are having different experiences. Some are saying "yes more challenging but can do everything I did on Monday" with healer Comps and others are saying "Useless". Useless/impossible/broken etc are not helpful under these circumstances because clearly that is not universal.

 

What would be helpful is

 

1. If you are having issues list Character level, stats, average gear level, class and spec.

2. if at lvl 65 where were you when you had the problem?

3. what role companion was in

The reason for the above is that the change to healing companions was NOT just a flat 50% or something. Presense and level sync have effects as well. So if you do fine, except on Makeb, the Makeb lvl sync mechanic may be the issue and not the nerf overall. If you presence is low perhaps they weighted presence to much into the equation?

 

If you were doing a heroic star fortress you may actually have less gear than they intended? Maybe the encounters need to be tweeked because they are more unforgiving against a particular class? As much as people don't want to hear it there will always be an optimal class/companion role team, maybe the role combination was the problem.

 

Just saying "this is impossible" and calling people who disagree elitists doesn't help them identify a problem. Simply demanding that it is completely reverted is not going happen either. If you have issues give details. Not only is it far more constructive for the devs, but a lot of the back and forth on these threads (that regrettably I even got trapped in) devolved into "I know you are but what am I arguments" which are not only counter productive for the Devs purposes but destructive to our community.

 

Thank you for reading.

How dare you try to use a logical approach?! *Slams keyboard to the ground* *yells obscenities* *rage quits due to your forum post*

 

Edited November 18, 2015 by The_Wulff

[Frenesi]

Well, I tried to do it. Got deleted for self-censoring of few profanities (insert facepalm smile here). No way I'm recreating this wall of text again, but in short - comps are quite adequate for heroics solo, with bad gear, bad influence level and bad marauder rotation . Only runned into trouble on Makeb, and that's mostly due to mechanics.

 

And in case TUX will walk by:

 

Yes, I soloed Voss Boneyard, including the 2 golds and 4 silvers pack you referred to. Perfectly doable with tanking comp. All single bosses are fine with healing one.

 

Edited November 18, 2015 by Frenesi

[Ghisallo]

Well, I tried to do it. Got deleted for self-censoring of few profanities (insert facepalm smile here). No way I'm recreating this wall of text again, but in short - comps are quite adequate for heroics solo, with bad gear, bad influence level and bad marauder rotation . Only runned into trouble on Makeb, and that's mostly due to mechanics.

 

And in case TUX will walk by:

 

Yes, I soloed Voss Boneyard, including the 2 golds and 4 silvers pack you referred to. Perfectly doable with tanking comp. All single bosses are fine with healing one.

 

And it is doable for me as well... but this appears to not be a universal experience either. Example doing a heroic SF I could see myself having issues on my Operative that I do not have on my other characters. He has less AoE dps (which can be need on the cores) plus less armor and fewer defensive cool downs than my other toons. So maybe there is an issue but at this point it is not with the companion nerf itself as much as some of the content design. You only figure out if this is true though with data, simple declarations of anecdotal experience with NO details don't really help.

 

When I said as you did here it was only to illustrate that the "impossible" claims are not universal... this is not the same as saying "there is no problem whatsoever" though.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo

[SamAnders]

Slider options would not work in the "persistent" world of the weeklies where people are going after the same quest targets/mobs. This has always been one of the issues with MMOs that have a persistent world.

 

A game like SWTOR makes money off of keeping players playing as long as possible so they pay. They actually sit down when designing an expac and work out "average time to complete content?" because they can only make so much. BW is especially sensitive to this because of the launch debacle. Why do you think the stories are being phased in? A slider options throws this off completely. Because it is a persistent world, even the person who does not use the slider actually gets forced to use it as they see players using it tearing past them and swallowing the targets of the quest.

 

A different financial model like B2P? everything being an individual instance? Then maybe some version of a slider would work, but SWTOR doesn't have the financial model or design atm to make this a practical solution.

 

Well that's just too damn bad. Tap the mobs faster. It'd be worse of an issue if everyone had ****** companions even because then everyone would take longer to kill things.

[GythralSWTOR]

People are upset clearly but...

 

Clearly people are having different experiences. Some are saying "yes more challenging but can do everything I did on Monday" with healer Comps and others are saying "Useless". Useless/impossible/broken etc are not helpful under these circumstances because clearly that is not universal.

 

What would be helpful is

 

1. If you are having issues list Character level, stats, average gear level, class and spec.

2. if at lvl 65 where were you when you had the problem?

3. what role companion was in

The reason for the above is that the change to healing companions was NOT just a flat 50% or something. Presense and level sync have effects as well. So if you do fine, except on Makeb, the Makeb lvl sync mechanic may be the issue and not the nerf overall. If you presence is low perhaps they weighted presence to much into the equation?

 

If you were doing a heroic star fortress you may actually have less gear than they intended? Maybe the encounters need to be tweeked because they are more unforgiving against a particular class? As much as people don't want to hear it there will always be an optimal class/companion role team, maybe the role combination was the problem.

 

Just saying "this is impossible" and calling people who disagree elitists doesn't help them identify a problem. Simply demanding that it is completely reverted is not going happen either. If you have issues give details. Not only is it far more constructive for the devs, but a lot of the back and forth on these threads (that regrettably I even got trapped in) devolved into "I know you are but what am I arguments" which are not only counter productive for the Devs purposes but destructive to our community.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

Why?

I pay a sub to play the game, not to alpha test every whim that EA comes up with!

 

All the testing should have been done by staff, well before any of it getting close to a live environment, yes the odd bug gets through or does not show up in the closed servers, there yes we should be giving detail and it should be getting fixed in a timely manner, but we are not talking about a bug we are talking about a change that more or less is a bait and switch of the advertised product!

Edited November 18, 2015 by GythralSWTOR

[SamAnders]

I'm just legitimately not understanding why a persistent world makes varying companion strength an issue. I just really truly don't see it. The option is there for everybody and with the exception of PvP it really wouldn't make a difference (and in that case they could be equalized in strength).

[Ghisallo]

Why?

I pay a sub to play the game, not to alpha test every whim that EA comes up with!

 

All the testing should have been done by staff well before any of it getting close to a live environment, yes the odd bug gets through or does not show up in the closed servers, there yes we should be giving detail and it should be getting fixed in a timely manner, but we are not talking about a bug we are talking about a change that more or less is a bait and switch of the advertised product!

 

And I agree with the fact that they should have caught this before launch. That is a valid lne of complaint, o doubt.

 

I am focused on only one thing however. If you want to give an answer to Eric's request for feedback, and want to say "I should not be testing this change on my subscribed account, thanks but no thanks"... that works. it is constructive because it serves as a reminder to the devs that releasing content in the borked state they did is clearly not acceptable.

 

Simply yelling "it is impossible fix it!!!!" isn't going to get them to fix a darn thing though. All it's going to do is get you all worked up. That specific type of response is the only one I am referring to.

[captradface]

Don't talk ****, there is no bait and switch. Unless of course you want to prove what was advertised and how it's not now being delivered?

 

The content is meant to be challenging it is challenging, not impossible.

 

So, the companions weren't on a different level 10 days ago when I subbed after trying out the new content?

[Ghisallo]

I'm just legitimately not understanding why a persistent world makes varying companion strength an issue. I just really truly don't see it. The option is there for everybody and with the exception of PvP it really wouldn't make a difference (and in that case they could be equalized in strength).

 

First and foremost because the devs when it comes to these games literally plan out how fast it should take the "average player" to complete the content. They do this so they can schedule future development and release dates for new content patches. One of the reasons this game had a HUGE drop off not long after launch in 2012 is because, in BW's own words, they did not have enough content so they are very sensitive to the issue. Because this game is not b2p but is subscription and microtransaction based they MUST keep people playing for as long as possible. a Dormant sub because the player said "I won this update" is a revenue loss That is why these games have "grinds.

 

If you add the difficulty slider then this calculation is close to impossible. Even if they get close they simply would not be able to make enough content to address the "I won the update" phenomena. Is this a "business" dynamic most players could give two dangs about? Yepper BUT it is one BW has to care about if they want to stay in business.

 

The slider also creates other issue with griefing via camping quest nodes etc but that takes a back seat to the effect it has on the business model.

[Ghisallo]

So, the companions weren't on a different level 10 days ago when I subbed after trying out the new content?

 

The thing is... what is your presence... companion affection... if level sync borked? What you "feel" without looking at these numbers means NOTHING.

[Chernyo]

1. If you are having issues list Character level, stats, average gear level, class and spec.

2. if at lvl 65 where were you when you had the problem?

3. what role companion was in

 

I do not think i have troubles for the time being, but i'll share my observations:

 

1. Char = Jedi Focus Guardian, with orange gear from vendors and mods from lvl 38 level vendor.

2. at level 38-51 synchronized down to Balmora levels i had only one death in H2 - actually the first group when i realized how squishy T7 became as tank (affection~18 lvl).

3. T7 - tank(18lvl) and another H2 with Doc (lvl1 i guess - i did heroic while doing story Q for unlocking him). Doc was kind enough to not letting me die.

 

note: i did indeed some regen pauses between pulls, and use Biochem stims and medpacks occasionally.

note1: i am "new" player and no legacy buffs are available to me.

note2: if i am supposed to grind those i expect to be able to gather 8+ mobs and burn them with Guardian's wonderful AOE abilities and essentially steam/face rolling grindable content.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Not at home to get all my stats etc. but I didn't play much content beyond KoTFE ( mostly because I found the gameplay so mind numbingly boring with comps the way they were and had no interest in doing other mind numbingly boring content for rewards I don't want or need ) and a few operations after 4.0 dropped but I do log daily for my GTN stuff and I did get a rank 50 comp for ***** n giggles.

 

So I ran a few heroics last night with my rank 50 and found them far simpler than pre 4.0 which would have been the last time I recall doing heroics and how challenging they were. It was actually fun because I didn't have to stealth my whole way through a Heroic 2 at level as I used to if I didn't want to die lots but it was still challenging and I had to use all my abilities and skill to get through.

 

This is as DPS sin with a tank comp and I'm in 208 - 220 mix ( don't even have a decent hilt yet ).

 

Seems most of the rage comes from the SF Heroic 2 now which I've not attempted but it does sound pretty tough so they need to probably detune this somewhat.

 

Companions though seem fine to me.

 

All this week has done is make me hate certain aspects of the MMO community all the more because it seems many just want god mode content and have no interest in anything even semi time consuming or slightly challenging or might require them to actually think and react ( you know, playing a game ).

 

tldr; Companions are fine, SF H2 needs a rename to flashpoint or a nerf.

[captradface]

The thing is... what is your presence... companion affection... if level sync borked? What you "feel" without looking at these numbers means NOTHING.

 

What I "feel" is this isn't what I subbed for, hence my cancellation.

 

I let my wallet do it's talking. There's so many games with better mechanics than this one in this industry, there's little reason for me to stay subbed, now that what I was finding fun is gone.

Edited November 19, 2015 by captradface

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You mean the new stronger companions being a feature of KotFE/4.0 and then being nerfed back to the level of 3.0/even lower than 3.0 after a month, where the devs don't actually say anything about it until the day before the nerf, isn't bait and switch?

 

You and the next guy ... where is the advertising for this?

 

Having it overpowered and then fixing it isn't bait and switch, it's fixing it. Companions are still better than pre 4.0 - Get your influence up.

[OceanwaveII]

Why?

I pay a sub to play the game, not to alpha test every whim that EA comes up with!

 

All the testing should have been done by staff, well before any of it getting close to a live environment, yes the odd bug gets through or does not show up in the closed servers, there yes we should be giving detail and it should be getting fixed in a timely manner, but we are not talking about a bug we are talking about a change that more or less is a bait and switch of the advertised product!

 

Yeah honestly it not are job to "Test there crappy patches " They could of Easily postpone there patch or put it on a test server . It literally Improved NOTHING and it broke the damn patcher people still can't log on .It was completely unnecessary and done without warning and Rushed . I am not being paid by bioware to test there crappy content .when they refuse to even open there test servers.

[sjscorpiomark]

Slider options would not work in the "persistent" world of the weeklies where people are going after the same quest targets/mobs. This has always been one of the issues with MMOs that have a persistent world. .

 

the same issue exists in every MMO some class as a tagging advantage over another class thus they have an easier time getting those particular mobs. Hunters in WoW for an example could simply spam a trap on the spawn point of a quest mob and it would tag the mob after being created 'in the world' but before being visible to any player.

 

People that wanted the nerf wanted more of a challenge right, where there is one challenge get to those mobs as fast as others but not use your slider. see the slider idea is an OPTION you can choose to turn it up or down whenever you want. people racing ahead either suck it up or use the option your choice.

 

the problem with the nerf as it was implemented is that it disproportionately effects low and mid level players who don't have tons of datacrons, legacvy buffs, or comps with 40 or 50 influence (yet) because as far as I know nobody regardless of RNG luck, pcan make enough credits by say level 20 to gift up a comp to 50, 15 maybe but not much higher including story convos. so not only do their classes have fewer abilities/cooldowns to play with they also have the weakest possible comps. if they nerfed just level 65 comps I think much of the complaining would have not happened. end game challenge sure but why the hell make leveling to cap take any longer than needed? besides what does it effect in your game if I run h2s with OP comps ??? is it because less 'experienced' players using op comps do it faster than you? but you wanted a challenge dont use the op comp and beat their times sheesh.

 

gonna go bury my head in the sand like BW and it's cronies.

[sjscorpiomark]

You and the next guy ... where is the advertising for this?

 

Having it overpowered and then fixing it isn't bait and switch, it's fixing it. Companions are still better than pre 4.0 - Get your influence up.

 

and how exactly do you get your influence up as a new player without a ton of credits? oh you mean run esseles/black talon 80-100 times, at 30 minutes a piece to have a competent (not OP just competent) companion? how does that fix anything,

[SamAnders]

and how exactly do you get your influence up as a new player without a ton of credits? Oh you mean run esseles/black talon 80-100 times, at 30 minutes a piece to have a competent (not op just competent) companion? How does that fix anything,

 

grind harder

[sjscorpiomark]

grind harder

 

THAT is the whole point, 4.0 made the grind easy 'fun' not a chore many people obviously liked it being easy and thus the backlash. By making it harder they are gonna lose a lot of people that joined or rejoined when they made it easy and fun for them to play.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

and how exactly do you get your influence up as a new player without a ton of credits? oh you mean run esseles/black talon 80-100 times, at 30 minutes a piece to have a competent (not OP just competent) companion? how does that fix anything,

 

Play the game ... pretty sure in reading about the SF on dulfy it says the solo mode is repeatable also to get inf etc. up?

 

Else there are the heroics that can still be done etc. etc.

 

Also check this out:

 

•The Heroic difficulty mode for a given planet's Star Fortress is unlocked by completing the planetary resistance Mission arc for that planet. This mode is intended for groups of 2 players (with their respective Companions). That being said, it is possible for a solo player to complete Heroic mode, provided that player has a high-rank Companion, and has built Influence with their Alliance specialists (as this unlocks access to various usable objects within the Heroic mode that provide powerful buffs and additional abilities).

 

That's from the original alliance blog. This more or less proves companions were overpowered by design to begin with and they are now working as intended because the HM SF is now working as intended.

 

People just lost their gravy train and have their knickers in a twist, get over it.

[sjscorpiomark]

I was specifically talking about low level toons, not 65's how is a level 20 toon going to have 50 influence? it cannot be done unless someone gives them millions of credits right? so a level 20 wanting to do Drumond Kass h2s is supposed to run SF heroics for influence? /boggle/

[Gallandaeus]

The content is meant to be challenging it is challenging.

 

Challenging. I really don't think people understand this concept at all. I think people need to realize that the "challenge" they've been asking for in SOLO content is just tedious grinding made even more tedious by the lack of speed that pre-patch companions gave. And considering some people have multiple characters to do this grindy alliance building on? No. Challenge should never be imposed on repeatable solo content unless we get a Hard Mode option that offers increased reward at a greater difficulty to the player. Did we get that? Nope. What we got is BioWare's classic use of the easy-way-out solution.

[ZanyaCross]

People that wanted the nerf wanted more of a challenge right, where there is one challenge get to those mobs as fast as others but not use your slider. see the slider idea is an OPTION you can choose to turn it up or down whenever you want. people racing ahead either suck it up or use the option your choice.

 

And as I've said in other threads, I could live with that, but only if the slider also affected your loot. You want fights twice as easy? You get half the credits and green gear. You want the big rewards? You earn them.

[SamAnders]

I was specifically talking about low level toons, not 65's how is a level 20 toon going to have 50 influence? it cannot be done unless someone gives them millions of credits right? so a level 20 wanting to do Drumond Kass h2s is supposed to run SF heroics for influence? /boggle/

 

maybe you should get good this change is great bioware is great bioware does nothing wrong