Have you played the game?

[Gromarch]

Reading through the forum while patching yesterday, it seemed like an awful lot of players could testify that the epic nerf our poor companions had endured, made the game extremely difficult compared to before and killed the fun.

 

After a relatively short while, I couldn't help to realize that the majority of these players where being very vocal and upset about a change that they had been able to try for less than an hour.

 

The main gripe was about the new impossibility of soloing 2+ Heroics and soloing Star Fortress.

However, it didn't take long though, before some peeps came through, testifying that they'd soloed both SF and 2+H's.

 

Now let me make a few things clear about me as a gamer; I generally suck and I like to play MMO's solo 90% of the time I utilize my wee blasters.

So you can imagine what a nice breeze it was to stroll through everything when I came back to this game a short while ago.

It felt almost to easy, even for me, which I brought up in chat and someone suggested I dismissed my companion, if I wanted challenge. I did and was instantly reminded how much I can manage to suck at this game, Rest assured, I wasn't without my trusty comp for long.

 

So it was with a heavy heart and low expectations that I threw myself into doing some 2+H's when I logged in this morning; I expected to die. A lot. Which I did at first.

 

But each time I died, (and I really hate dying!!) it was like I missed some piece of the puzzle, like the was something that I had forgot about and after a (to long) while, I realized how many of my skills I wasn't using at all.

And boy, did some of those come in handy.

 

As said, I mainly suck; I'm the guy that most really don'r group with more than once, part of this being due to me lacking the skills of steering my pixeldoll and pressing numbers at the same time.

Sometimes even remembering the right number can be.. well, nevermind that, but suffice to say, I had to make some small changes to my UI to enable me to use most of my skills somewhat easily.

 

Now I´m soloing 2+H's again, almost as easy as yesterday, but admittedly a bit more challenging. And fun.

 

My points here being:

• Trying to adapt and overcome before passing judgement, might be a good idea; you might realize that the nerf might be huge, but not necessarily game or fun breaking at all.
   
  
• The game have been so easy, that it made me forget how to play my char and if you´re really struggling, perhaps then that's the case for you as well. Checking rotations and see if you miss out on some skill(s) might do the trick.
   
  
• Since I can make it work, I believe that most can, without it being a struggle. Granted that they wish it to work, of course. If you're just angry about it, it'll never work, in which case:
   
  
• The problem is not the problem. The problem is some peoples attitude towards the problem.
   
  

[ryoutou]

Yep, I managed heroic SF on a newish 65. Been tinkering with all my lowbie alts I'm leveling.

 

The fuss is really blown out of proportion. Its just not that bad.

[Neoforcer]

OP this is not about adapting it is about content that is not meant to be hard for any one. H2s are not raids they are time sinks to make credits and reps it is not meant to be omg i died a lot or man i had to use heroic moments on that fight. Which new players that we have invited to join us on a epic story don't have.

[MillionsKNives]

Thank you. The problem is people don't want to try and fail, then try again. They want to faceroll through the content and get their participation trophy for watching their companion do the content for them. With a bit of effort and adaptation they'd be surprised at what they could accomplish, instead of giving up and whining on the forums.

[panzersoldatten]

good point and so true ... spout off before engaging brain ...then L2P....LMAO learned that this morning as well.

[hadoken]

I didn't try any of my 65s last night, was playing a mid 40s guardian. What I did notice was groups composed of two silvers almost killed me, had to use quite a bit of extra effort to take them down and often times I'd skip groups or wait for cooldowns on defensive abilities before pulls. It didn't bother me all that much but it was quite a difference from prior to the patch. I have a feeling I would not be able to solo any of the Heroic 2s at level, which I could before.

[Neoforcer]

Yep, I managed heroic SF on a newish 65. Been tinkering with all my lowbie alts I'm leveling.

 

The fuss is really blown out of proportion. Its just not that bad.

 

Not really you have allts and buff and heroic moments on all those alts what people are missing is that new players don't have that stuff. there on a new 65 that they got handed and expect by other these people should play like a pro. Can i solo yes been here since beta can the new friend i got to come to the game slol it no there dieing were 2 days ago they were having fun now there like screw this. If you all want to play a dead game so bad keep it up....

[Gundivar]

My points here being:

• Trying to adapt and overcome before passing judgement, might be a good idea; you might realize that the nerf might be huge, but not necessarily game or fun breaking at all.
   
  
• The game have been so easy, that it made me forget how to play my char and if you´re really struggling, perhaps then that's the case for you as well. Checking rotations and see if you miss out on some skill(s) might do the trick.
   
  
• Since I can make it work, I believe that most can, without it being a struggle. Granted that they wish it to work, of course. If you're just angry about it, it'll never work, in which case:
   
  
• The problem is not the problem. The problem is some peoples attitude towards the problem.
   
  

 

Exactly.

 

I said this in another post as well.

 

People just expect everything to work like before.

Healing has been nerfed so the conditions of the heroics have changed.

If the conditions have been changed it is needed to change your tactics.

 

Look again at your character, adapt, jump in again and profit.

[masstershake]

Great post and an example of how people should be acting.

 

This should get stickied and have added "before you complain about companions read this first"

[ryoutou]

OP this is not about adapting it is about content that is not meant to be hard for any one. H2s are not raids they are time sinks to make credits and reps it is not meant to be omg i died a lot or man i had to use heroic moments on that fight. Which new players that we have invited to join us on a epic story don't have.

 

They give an achievement for soloing one of these things with no buff. An achievement with a legacy title. As it was you could get it with almost zero effort. Now it takes just a wee bit.

 

Good grief.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

I agree. The game seems more in line with what I'd expect. Solo stuff is still too easy, the slightly more challenging H2s are now something I must be a bit careful about in regard to pulling multiple mobs, using CCs on bigger mobs, using my deffinsive buffs and stuns etc. At some point the game should be a challenge and when I get killed, I have found its a L2P issue with me, not that the game is not correctly tuned to my skill level, and that's fine, I have a lot to learn.

[Neoforcer]

Thank you. The problem is people don't want to try and fail, then try again. They want to faceroll through the content and get their participation trophy for watching their companion do the content for them. With a bit of effort and adaptation they'd be surprised at what they could accomplish, instead of giving up and whining on the forums.

 

Not really whats happening is some people don't have shinny 4 alt buffs with 8 heroic moments and unity or even legacy for that mater feeling like they cant play content H2s are not meant to be hard there meant to be time sinks on a rep grind. What you will be surprised by is the sharp fall of in subs on new player and a dead game like in SOR. No were did BW state the H2s are meant to be challenge for players to adapt to it

[Halinalle]

69k Annihilation Marauder's/Watchman Sentinel's crit ticks during Berserk/Zen (all burning damage) heal about 14% less than channeled heal from rank 24 healer companion. That should tell a lot about this. OP, remember those burns heal 1% of hp every tick so higher the hp higher the healing effect. And they are group wide. Edited November 18, 2015 by Halinalle

[MillionsKNives]

OP this is not about adapting it is about content that is not meant to be hard for any one. H2s are not raids they are time sinks to make credits and reps it is not meant to be omg i died a lot or man i had to use heroic moments on that fight. Which new players that we have invited to join us on a epic story don't have.

 

Who said they're not supposed to be difficult? They're called heroics, not super special sunshine quests.

[masstershake]

Who said they're not supposed to be difficult? They're called heroics, not super special sunshine quests.

 

+1

 

Bioware seriously stickie this thread. The sence coming out here is amazing

[Master-Nala]

My points here being:

• Trying to adapt and overcome before passing judgement, might be a good idea; you might realize that the nerf might be huge, but not necessarily game or fun breaking at all.
   
  
• The game have been so easy, that it made me forget how to play my char and if you´re really struggling, perhaps then that's the case for you as well. Checking rotations and see if you miss out on some skill(s) might do the trick.
   
  
• Since I can make it work, I believe that most can, without it being a struggle. Granted that they wish it to work, of course. If you're just angry about it, it'll never work, in which case:
   
  
• The problem is not the problem. The problem is some peoples attitude towards the problem.
   
  

 

Excellent post, I agree completely.

[Razamatazz]

I would respectfully argue that any quest with Heroic in the title is supposed to provide a challenge. I agree that the standard daily quests should not be terribly difficult, but the weekly ones should provide some challenge for a single player with just their companion. There is plenty of content in the game that is faceroll easy, a large majority of bhai the story, the 9 chapters of KotFE. A little challenge is not a bad thing for people. As the OP said, he often wasn't using many of his abilities and after using them he succeeded. It's all still doable, it's just now the player is the one who has to carry the load, rather than the game carrying it for them via the companions.

 

Now, I'll openly qualify what I've said with I agree with the companion nerf. My character was invincible with a healer comp and I didn't like that. I realized this after soloing elite named mobs on Corellia that were 2 levels higher than me and soloing the Battle of Ilumn on tactical at level 50 or so. I would agree the tune down could have been done more incrementally, but again, having players encounter some challenge in a Heroic quest is how I feel it should be based on it being called heroic. It should be able to be solo'd, but only through skill or overgearing, which is how it seems to be now. I understand if folks disagree, as we're all entitled to an opinion, but based on Eric Musco's post it seems the Dev's may have intended it to be that way. For what it's worth at least.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Razamatazz

[ZanyaCross]

So it was with a heavy heart and low expectations that I threw myself into doing some 2+H's when I logged in this morning; I expected to die. A lot. Which I did at first.

 

But each time I died, (and I really hate dying!!) it was like I missed some piece of the puzzle, like the was something that I had forgot about and after a (to long) while, I realized how many of my skills I wasn't using at all.

And boy, did some of those come in handy.

 

As said, I mainly suck; I'm the guy that most really don'r group with more than once, part of this being due to me lacking the skills of steering my pixeldoll and pressing numbers at the same time.

Sometimes even remembering the right number can be.. well, nevermind that, but suffice to say, I had to make some small changes to my UI to enable me to use most of my skills somewhat easily.

 

Now I´m soloing 2+H's again, almost as easy as yesterday, but admittedly a bit more challenging. And fun.

 

There is nothing that feels quite as good in this game as that sense of accomplishment you get from overcoming a wall that was holding you back. I'm glad you got to feel that.

 

There's a saying in the video game industry. "Fail faster", because the more and faster you fail the more and faster you learn (and boy did I ever "learn" at this game my first year).

[well]

Thank you. The problem is people don't want to try and fail, then try again. They want to faceroll through the content and get their participation trophy for watching their companion do the content for them. With a bit of effort and adaptation they'd be surprised at what they could accomplish, instead of giving up and whining on the forums.

 

Are you talking about yourself? Since you don't know all the people playing.

[bseefeldt]

First things first, I can Solo SF heroic with very little difficulty. It does take longer to do but I did it. I guess one of my complaints is I don't like that it takes longer to do. But what pisses me off more then anything is that people were coming back to the game, not a lot of players but the guild felt active again. Now after yesterday new / returning players that were loving the game, cant do things they have been doing since 4.0 launched. I am on a low pop server Bastion and a lot of the new players after waiting all day for the patch to download finally log on and bam ! they cant do what they have been doing and they hate it. Losing new players on a dead server sucks! was just starting to have fun again and now after yesterday feels like a kick in the balls.

[Quraswren]

SNIP...

 

The problem is not the problem.

 

Well you're pretty much wrong.

 

It's an over nerf to an area of the game that didn't need it. This nerf didn't make the game anymore fun or entertaining. It made the grind more "grindy" but thats about it.

 

Combine that grind with how bad this nerf works with level sync and it just gets worse. Not only at max level but during leveling.

 

So this nerf is a problem because it didn't make the game more fun over all. It just made it tedious, took out some leisurely entertainment in a solo area of the game that just didn't need any more grind than we already got (AKA a 10K affection grind now made into 250K)

 

It's just one more poorly thought out design change and it is indeed a problem for a lot of gamers.

[MillionsKNives]

Well you're pretty much wrong.

 

It's an over nerf to an area of the game that didn't need it. This nerf didn't make the game anymore fun or entertaining. It made the grind more "grindy" but thats about it.

 

Combine that grind with how bad this nerf works with level sync and it just gets worse. Not only at max level but during leveling.

 

So this nerf is a problem because it didn't make the game more fun over all. It just made it tedious, took out some leisurely entertainment in a solo area of the game that just didn't need any more grind than we already got (AKA a 10K affection grind now made into 250K)

 

It's just one more poorly thought out design change and it is indeed a problem for a lot of gamers.

 

I don't think the change is perfect, but the game is definitely a lot more fun now than it was before. I actually feel like the hero now, instead of the follower.

[evilisgood]

1) make a new toon on a server with no legacy buffs/unlocks

2)lvl it to ~40 as dps

3)go to belsavis and do a heroic with your rank 10 healing comp

4) tell us how much fun you had being obliterated

[Bobs_YourUncle]

1) make a new toon on a server with no legacy buffs/unlocks

2)lvl it to ~40 as dps

3)go to belsavis and do a heroic with your rank 10 healing comp

4) tell us how much fun you had being obliterated

 

So a pretty much on level heroic shouldn't be a challenge, if not impossible, for a new (no legacy buffs/unlocks, first character?) player? Of course it should be, as it's always been.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Bobs_YourUncle

[Quraswren]

I don't think the change is perfect,

 

Thats because BW screwed up perfect. That being, a enjoyable solo experience that you can adjust for yourself by using a difference companion if you want to add some tedious time to an already grindy part of the game or you can do it a bit more quickly by using that powerful companion you got and have a it more fun and entertainment with them.

 

but the game is definitely a lot more fun now than it was before. I actually feel like the hero now, instead of the follower.

Well, were going to disagree there. The nerf didn't add any fun or entertainment to SWTOR and if you really found that adding more time to a slog of running the same heroic over and over. Grab a weaker companion and have at it. LEave the rest alone.

 

Now my toons feels about as non-heroic as one can get. Be it the piss poor down leveling going to planets makingt me feel NON-heroic or when I go into a star fortress, designed to be me and my companion and it's nothing but a grind made worse and the fun was taken out of it by this nerf.

 

Heroic feeling in SWTOR is a joke these days. Down leveling and the nerf to companions saw to that.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Quraswren