Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[Kurou_Daijuuji]

Finally, I think that one of the reasons for the nerf may have been that healing companions had become preferable to actual players in Flashpoints and apparently players were being kicked in favour of companions (though I did not see it personally). However, I do not think that this was a companion issue; the Flashpoints are currently unbalanced and frustrating to play through with pug groups. At least, in my experience and from what I have read elsewhere. And for those who would say, 'Join a guild.', I and many other casual players may not feel that they have the time to commit to a guild - hence the popularity of group finding mechanisms in MMOs.

 

Flashpoints in general are pretty awful. It's great that they added the option of solo flashpoints, especially for the story mandated ones, but it wasn't thought through very well. 4.0's level scaling + 4.2's companion nerf + no rewards = tedium.

 

For example, I'm level 61 going into the pair on Ilum, scaled down to level 50, and wind up feeling about level 12. Combined with the changes to the companions, it's possibly the single most tedious, unrewarding slog in the game. Fight a mob, stop. Heal. Fight another couple of mobs, stop, heal. Fight a boss that takes anywhere from five to ten minutes, get one lousy Common Data Crystal. Repeat.

 

I have no idea who thought it was a good idea, but for Solo Flashpoints to be (much) less rewarding than even the most basic heroics in the game really isn't. Not when it takes the better part of an hour for some of these minimum, and I get less for the whole slog than I would doing Republic's Most Wanted on Coruscant in about five minutes flat.

[CombatLord]

Tried doing H2's on Balmorra on a lvl 20 and with a blue's from DK heroics and having Kaliyo as heals with a lvl 9 presence and had to give up cause she just could not keep up with damage and my cc's are next to none {idk if I get more as I get higher} and I could not keep up spot heals as I am spec'd as dps. So idk.

[iremeath]

well,my 2 cents,this has basically ruined the game,just resubbed,got my wife to sub as well,we were enjoying doing endgame solo and together,now,absolutely terrible,we both unsubbed today,a small nerf for balance is one thing,making soloable parts of the game impossible is not a nerf,its a game changer,bioware,you have till our sub is up,or you lose 2 more Edited November 19, 2015 by iremeath

[positronics]

Tried doing H2's on Balmorra on a lvl 20 and with a blue's from DK heroics and having Kaliyo as heals with a lvl 9 presence and had to give up cause she just could not keep up with damage and my cc's are next to none {idk if I get more as I get higher} and I could not keep up spot heals as I am spec'd as dps. So idk.

 

Almost all Heroics are like that now. Only thing to do is unsub and stop giving them money until they change it.

[Ecad_Mistflier]

Okay so I got in finally here are my thoughts, coming from the place of no characters over level 47 no comps over level 18 and no legacy unlocks. I tried standard planet H2+ runs (sentinel lvl 28 and commando lvl 48) both with healer comps.

 

Yesterday I would wipe the floor with them, OP for sure but fun wrecking stuff. today I scraped by a few near deaths and generally about twice as long to complete the mission needing to be exceedingly careful about CC and not letting splash damage (an issue on the commando) from breaking CC so lots of CC then run away a ways or LOS to pull the rest away from the CC. not a big deal but a skill many people don't have if they have not played a game that required CC regularly.

 

if you accidentally break a CC it gets problematic and you will have to blow all your cool downs. For the average player that has some MMO raiding experience it's a 75% chance of pulling it out when bad things happen because you have probably experienced things going sideways a lot. The average never raided just play for RP or crafting and a little FUN (i.e. not into wanting a challenging combat game) player i give them a 25% chance or less when things go sideways.

 

Does yesterday's experience mean the nerf was needed, being too easy? Yes I think so

Does today's experience mean the nerf was too much? Yes I think so, put back 1/2 the nerf and I think it would be fine.

 

for the raider/hard mode player it doesn't really effect you so I don't want to hear it was too easy. (you always play with 4 humans right?) if you did play with comps just dismiss them and truly SOLO content have as much challenging play as you want. What does it matter to you if I or anyone else wants an easy gaming experience?

 

For the casual to average player the nerf is going to turn what was a really fun 'easy' game into a chore and many will unsub due to it no longer being FUN for them. They are not crybabies or whiners or anything but people who want to play a game and enjoy themselves. they could care less about how you and your group downed hard mode blah blah with no tank, they just want to play their FUN game their way and let you do it your way.

 

My sentiments exactly. There are far too many games out there to be tied down to a grinder. I came back to give this one a second try and was having a good time with the so called "OP companions" and felt finally my game style is getting some love. But I spoke too soon. I have unsubscribed again.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Ecad_Mistflier
Spelling.

[loukick]

"check the changes yourself.."

I have log in, test this huge nerf and...

 

"check the changes yourself.."

It is made, i have canceled my subscription.

 

++

[FFHAuthor]

Well, I'll throw in with an odd perspective. I stopped playing SWTOR back before the introduction of Strongholds. I just couldn't keep up with the game and felt like things just weren't engrossing and kinda felt like it was a grind, exactly what I didn't want to do in a game. I canceled my subscription and tried now and again at various times to play in the FtP mode, but with so much common stuff locked behind a pay wall, it just wasn't fun.

 

I broke down about a month ago and resubscribed to bring back my characters since the new storyline seemed interesting and I was told that 'now your companions are stronger' and 'Bioware really moved back to storytelling'. And I'll be honest, after muddling through the changes, and finding everything different I was a bit taken aback, but I did find something to be excellent; The Companions. I could do Flashpoints and Heroics with just my companion set as a healer, and it felt wonderful! I was having fun with the game that I hadn't had before.

 

Now the companions get nerfed with this new patch and now I'm working on trying to play heroics that I was working through fairly respectably, but now I'm getting slaughtered.

 

I read a lot of comments that just say 'do the story mode' and that's a ludicrous concept, you want me to pay for a game that I can only play a fraction of?

 

Now all of a sudden, the game that I come back to find extremely enjoyable has suddenly become that grind again that has a massive amount of content leveled out of my reach without trying to group up with random strangers who are running around. Lovely design choice there guys, now I'm thinking of canceling my subscription again because if I want to play an aggravating game, I'll fire up Dwarf Fortress, because at least that gives me enjoyment and massive open world storytelling with the aggravating grind.

[Xenooo]

I have been a sub since release and have canceled until this comp nerf is fixed. See link below for more info.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=854505&page=2

[SithEmpress]

Why do they always do this, they release something that good "maybe too good" and a lot of people like it but then they nerf it into the ground a month later. Its getting really old, please test these feature so the don't come out overpowered. That way you avoid making a lot of people angry who like the feature the way it was.These massive nerf show a lack of testing, neither the companions or slot machine should have ever reached live. This is really harmful behavior that hurting the game as each time some people quite because they feel burned.

 

I will agree companions need tone down a little maybe 5-20%. Why don't you as other said use test center and make small changes for once. At least when the companions were strong it made the terrible alliance grind a little less annoying. It's not that I don't like a challenge but I did all this content a long time ago. The joy of the challenged went away long ago, now it just tedious and thanks to this change slower. Sadly I have to do it over and over for the massive alliance grind.

 

For those that like it I'm happy for you. I still think this change will have a negative impact overall. I believe people are more forgiving when they are overpowered vs under-powered. When they are under powered they can't get through the content easily. You can say what you want about other players skills but there a lot of people who aren't looking for a challenge or are new, thus they lack the skill to be successful. Of course if they are the majority or not could be debated, time will only tell.

Edited November 19, 2015 by SithEmpress

[AztecSoul]

On the original topic of 'soloing' heroics 2, with the companion meant to be that #2...

 

I attempted 'The Viper's Nest' heroic 2 on Makeb, and couldn't complete it on my vanguard with a rank10 healing companion (highest available to me). I have +100 presence from the human racial achievement, and +150 presence bonus from legacy-wide companion achievements, out of a possible 400. A few presence datacrons were collected, granting some points there. Legacy-wide +5% crit and +5% endurance buffs on, since I only played the Trooper, Smuggler, and Agent through Chapter 3.

 

The mobs from the heroic itself completely destroyed my companion on my first try, rather quickly. Second try involved blowing all CDs and only needing to defeat three enemies (last wave?) before I went down. The last try didn't fare any better. Having more presence buffs and ranking up my companion may be the tipping point to being able to solo this particular heroic, and possibly getting a level higher to equip better gear (though level sync seemed to cap my health regardless of equipping better gear).

 

I imagine I 'should' be able to solo the other heroics if I revise my approach as well, but this doesn't mean it can be done in the same amount of time as during pre-patch. Elara ultimately couldn't keep up with healing through the damage we received during 'the viper's nest', so even if I was to run the other heroics on my own through completion, it would be agonizingly long, assuming we're not exposed to so many enemies at the same time.

 

I respectfully ask the devs to take a second look at companion combat ability, in order to strike a balance through incremental changes. Bringing companion effectiveness down in increments, rather than to an extreme, would have been preferred. Thank you.

[Fordbird]

I don't understand why people were whining in the first place. The companions were only OP if you increased their influence. If you/I wanted more difficult play, use a companion with less influence. For those that wanted a more casual experience maxing influence could help them do that too. Influence with the companions is a choice for every player. Not being able to clear content is obviously not. I haven't had issues clearing any content, but I'd hate to see all the new people this xpac pulled in quit because they were lead to believe they were paying for a product that was quickly pulled out from under them.

[trancejeremy]

I don't understand why people were whining in the first place. The companions were only OP if you increased their influence. If you/I wanted more difficult play, use a companion with less influence. For those that wanted a more casual experience maxing influence could help them do that too. Influence with the companions is a choice for every player. Not being able to clear content is obviously not. I haven't had issues clearing any content, but I'd hate to see all the new people this xpac pulled in quit because they were lead to believe they were paying for a product that was quickly pulled out from under them.

 

This has always been the case - certain people will min-max (aka optimize for combat) with characters with the best gear, best everything and then turn around and complain that the game is too easy

[SithEmpress]

I don't understand why people were whining in the first place. The companions were only OP if you increased their influence. If you/I wanted more difficult play, use a companion with less influence. For those that wanted a more casual experience maxing influence could help them do that too. Influence with the companions is a choice for every player. Not being able to clear content is obviously not. I haven't had issues clearing any content, but I'd hate to see all the new people this xpac pulled in quit because they were lead to believe they were paying for a product that was quickly pulled out from under them.

 

This is sadly true, it was very easy for people to use in game mechanic to make thing harder. I did this in 12xp by not gearing myself or companion up as often as most people do. It was fun sometime to have a challenge but when I'm grinding dailies or just trying to do alliance grind I'm not looking for a challenge. I think this change is going to cost not only old players but as you said new players.

[EightSided]

The main problem is that Biofail pulled a complete 180 on its solo content. This is not for casual players anymore.

 

Its for 'IAML33T' who has his rotation and CDs timed down to the split second while his nose is stuck to the screen during boss fights.

[Kahiel]

Your self stated goal of being able to complete H2+ with a player and companion isn't holding water. I can run H2 with my new Sith Juggernaut on DK. It takes longer than before, but he didn't die. My 65 Sentinel with a mix of 200 to 216 gear with Lana at level 15 can't get past the Super Trooper on H2+ Star Fortress. In solo mode, Lana died just as I finished the trooper. In H2+ we just get burned down. Don't tell me to L2P because I don't see how cooldown management can overcome the never ending waves of adds. I don't have a taunt so I can't pull them off of her. I spend all my time trying to kill the adds to keep Lana clear and as soon as I finish one wave, the next hits. I will continue running some of my other characters through KotFE but I won't be doing the Star Fortresses. After that, we will just have to see.

[CombatLord]

Your self stated goal of being able to complete H2+ with a player and companion isn't holding water. I can run H2 with my new Sith Juggernaut on DK. It takes longer than before, but he didn't die. My 65 Sentinel with a mix of 200 to 216 gear with Lana at level 15 can't get past the Super Trooper on H2+ Star Fortress. In solo mode, Lana died just as I finished the trooper. In H2+ we just get burned down. Don't tell me to L2P because I don't see how cooldown management can overcome the never ending waves of adds. I don't have a taunt so I can't pull them off of her. I spend all my time trying to kill the adds to keep Lana clear and as soon as I finish one wave, the next hits. I will continue running some of my other characters through KotFE but I won't be doing the Star Fortresses. After that, we will just have to see.

 

This 100%

I am afraid though that the devs will only listen to the feedback of the pro-nerf crowd cause thats all they wanna hear. And remember then EricM said the line about being able to complete H2+ with a player and companion, well now I am seeing comments from some of the pro nerf crowd saying "yea he said that but what he rly meant is that you are not meant too rly.

[Ghisallo]

Your self stated goal of being able to complete H2+ with a player and companion isn't holding water. I can run H2 with my new Sith Juggernaut on DK. It takes longer than before, but he didn't die. My 65 Sentinel with a mix of 200 to 216 gear with Lana at level 15 can't get past the Super Trooper on H2+ Star Fortress. In solo mode, Lana died just as I finished the trooper. In H2+ we just get burned down. Don't tell me to L2P because I don't see how cooldown management can overcome the never ending waves of adds. I don't have a taunt so I can't pull them off of her. I spend all my time trying to kill the adds to keep Lana clear and as soon as I finish one wave, the next hits. I will continue running some of my other characters through KotFE but I won't be doing the Star Fortresses. After that, we will just have to see.

 

Did you use the clickies inside? I say this because it appears obvious this was something you were supposed to grind too. They have the clickies inside that require Affection 10 in the appropriate Alliance. They then have an achievement to do it without using said clickies as well.

 

As such it seems like this is something where eventually you can solo it after getting the alliance faction and gear that comes from the weeklies that got you the faction in the first place. Then by doing it on heroic mode with the clickies you get twice the rewards (the weekly) you get even more gear so you can do it without the clickies, all along you are also build affection with your chosen companion.

 

Also just like back in the day, when doing something in progression you should expect to die, even when soloing. They never said you or your companion would not die when accomplishing the task, or that all tasks could be done right now with your current gear, affection and alliance faction. They simply said they were intended to be soloed, nothing more.

[Deyjarl]

REVERT the change, in the meantime I will stay un-subbed

 

As if you were going to sub anyway.

[Talonus]

So I have a BH-Merc, with 216 set gear plus a couple 220 pieces. I dropped a bunch of resources to get my HK up to level 50. Still total crap. I can't even solo the Makeb H2 mission Observer, I don't have even a remote chance of beating the guardian droid. Before the nerf I could take him. Roll back this companion nerf, until then, I'm done with this nonsense.

[Ceinwyn]

Tested Heroic Star Fortress on my Juggernaut (DPS - Rage spec) with Senya (level 24 influence) in heal mode.

 

Unable to get past the final room before the Exarch (with the two captains and 18 stacks Photovoltaic Energy on the Exarch). I was close but couldn't get past it.

 

Used a fortitude stim, health pots on hand, all defensive cooldowns. Max presence through Legacy. My gear is 192x1, 208x7, 216x3, 220x1 with 186 relics, half augments. My alliance specialists ARE NOT level 10 however I did use the buff at the start. I could easily do this prior to patch 4.0.2.

 

To be clear, I'm not complaining. Yet. However with alliance specialists at rank 10 plus their additional buffs I expect to be able to finish this. (That's how I believe the Heroic is meant to be attempted solo). If that's not possible, then I'll complain.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Get real,, It's MEANT to be Soloable. Not everyone likes groups. Just because some can get the Best gear with the Best augs and boost their comps to over 30, many cant. These are "Story Arc" so MUST be completed. the Comps are wwaaayyy under powered now that many fall on the first Elite and his mobs, and not just a few times. There needs to be balance,, not to much the other way that it's screws the Fun. You will have trouble getting a group to pick on when they leave.

 

Seriously just be quiet and go away if that's your response.

 

I posted proof positive of what it's "meant to be". Bioware decide this, not you and not me.

 

That came from the Alliance blog about EXACTLY what HM SF is meant to be, for you to try argue against BW's own blog just makes you look foolish and it's no wonder that it's hard to take any of the hair on brigade seriously.

[positronics]

Tested Heroic Star Fortress on my Juggernaut (DPS - Rage spec) with Senya (level 24 influence) in heal mode.

 

Unable to get past the final room before the Exarch (with the two captains and 18 stacks Photovoltaic Energy on the Exarch). I was close but couldn't get past it.

 

Used a fortitude stim, health pots on hand, all defensive cooldowns. Max presence through Legacy. My gear is 192x1, 208x7, 216x3, 220x1 with 186 relics, half augments. My alliance specialists ARE NOT level 10 however I did use the buff at the start. I could easily do this prior to patch 4.0.2.

 

To be clear, I'm not complaining. Yet. However with alliance specialists at rank 10 plus their additional buffs I expect to be able to finish this. (That's how I believe the Heroic is meant to be attempted solo). If that's not possible, then I'll complain.

 

Get ready to complain, because it blows.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The main problem is that Biofail pulled a complete 180 on its solo content. This is not for casual players anymore.

 

Its for 'IAML33T' who has his rotation and CDs timed down to the split second while his nose is stuck to the screen during boss fights.

 

Or people who know how to operate their fingers and not mash their keyboard with their elbows ... "GRRR WHY AMZ I DIEING!" ... we know why and it's not because of the companion nerf.

[Deyjarl]

Lana at level 15 can't get past the Super Trooper on H2+ Star Fortress.

 

Lana or any other melee Comp is part of the problem.

 

Any time you move with an opponent she is going to also move in melee, and not heal you.

 

Any time you are in an AOE, she is going to be in that AoE also, taking damage, and probably after, not healing you.

 

Ranged healers are so much better in general, but more so in the Star Fortress which has lots of the issues that make melee healing companions bad healers.

 

 

Is that all to make it better. Probably not for everyone, but it will help for a lot of you. I know you all love Lana and always want her out, but sorry melee healer companions just aren't worth the bother.

 

I'm not against them tweaking companions some more to help some of the players (not that I actually think they need it but am willing to compromise). But a reversion or god mode button as some are asking for (didn't say you) is definitely not needed.

 

I've got 2 different characters through now and not having an issue in any heroics. Not an elite player but not average either so my experience is not going to be a good example (so far it has been easy), hence the compromise of them tweaking it still a bit.

 

But there are some things you can do to.

 

Solo mode drops 200 mods and gear. That's not far off 208, and you are getting coms and influence for 208, and doesn't even take that much time to get. It still drops all the decorations you can sell to buy other gear.

 

Does the game really have to hand out everything?

[Kalfridian]

My impression on the companions post patch (and some general impression), doing some planet heroics with my Jedi Guardian Defense Spec with DPS and (trying) healer companions. The higher level heroics was Darkness of Ilum, done it with a DPS companion, I haven't died on it but got some problem with unwanted pull (the mob density in the area was high, moreover I don't know why but the corpse of the enemies were still on the ground and they respawned on them, so I got surprised) and my HP dropped a lot until I readjusted myself to the pre 4.0 mindset and returned to use my defensive cooldown: after that all the enemies and boss were pretty much annihilated.

 

No problem on lower level heroics, but my LV35 Lana DPS was (at least, I think she was since her HP never dropped like that before) less resistant than before and died on Shadow Extraction on Nar Shaddaa.

As for damage, she still hold her own and kick some butt, she wasn't useless but she didn't leave a trail of corpse behind her in less than ten second like before either. In the end I think I'm okay with the change to the DPS stance, even though it was easier to play before.

 

The healing stance however is pretty useless for mob pull and only marginally useful for boss fight (and even then, only the Tyrant and the Queen, the big bug was problematic because I used too much my guardian slash and got a litte overwhelmed with the reinforcement, the Tyrant simply hit hard and isn't susceptible to stun, so you have to stay on your toe for his ravage), the number are really too low (the DPS stance doesn't feel this nerfed, the Healing stance feel nuked) which doesn't go well with the paperthin armor the companion has. Blondie spend more time healing herself than me and even when she does a well placed Focused Defense works better.

So I don't even know if I'd call healing stance bad, simply.... useless than pre 4.0 (the nerf on the heroic boss has removed the need of a dedicated healer to complement the defensive cooldown on hardhitting and high HP boss, at least for the majority of the boss fight).

This, obviously, for a tank but seeing the number even for a DPS they will not be that useful, the healing is too low and it might be better to simply go for overwhelming damage or a tank than a healer. I Might be wrong though, haven't tried on my marauder, he's only level 24.

Oh, and I haven't done Makeb, and knowing the planet (and the heroic), well, there might be a problem with some of the h2 mission (For the record for sure, since it's broken, but another one or two can give problem, one of them has two consecutive wave of enemies who goes ******* on you with their gatling, lot of damage in seconds, don't know about savage skies and the three turret fight, that's probably doable with Heroic Moment).

 

Another thing: I can pretty much do all the heroic I've tried on a level 65 tank. Don't know if I can do them on level, without all the cooldown or class abilities, don't think so since I'm an average to bad player, survived the nerf because I was here before 4.0. As of now reading the number I think it's back to 3.3.2 for me, enter the heroic zone only if 5 level over the mission with modded and buffed gear, don't charge in with the healing companion ready to cover, specially not with a DPS class. It was good until it lasted, but with the buffed level experience I'll simply not do the heroic while levelling since I don't need them to overlevel and they dont' give cool orange modded gear anymore. I still got a lot of solo content to do, so it's not really a problem if I can't solo everything.

 

I have not tried the H2 Star Fortress post nerf with another chara, and I don't think I will since healing is now useless, which means that it will take at least double the time it took the first time I've soloed them, and that's using all the buff and the specialist help (can't do the SF without it, so I'll never get one and only). My other toons will never go through them, the reward don't justify the new hassle: I can buy 208 gear and mod with common crystal or money and the new companion are more or less mannequin without any story relevance (the SF itself are an orange story arc), the decoration is alredy in my stronghold and the mount has the same description of the Ziost one, so I'll stick to that for my "run around hoping no mob will knock me down" exploration.

As of now they're more or less an exercise in tedium without any substantial reward.

 

So, TL;DR, my suggestion is:

 

- I think It may be better to backnerf the healing stance. The drop in healing number is pretty severe and I don't find them really helpful now. While I can understand why they've been nerfed (20K healing was pretty ridicolous, even if it was fun), I don't understand why they nerf was so bad, DPS stance don't feel that different.

 

- I'm not sure If the heroic now can be done solo on level, so maybe someone can try to test it.

 

- The "For the record" heroic on Makeb must be retuned to give more time to click the panel. I don't have any speed buff so I can't finish it.

 

- If the Star Fortress ever become purple content, give the possibility to call the JesusBot for the heroic version so you can speed up the time it take to do it solo or for those who don't want to group for some reason. If they remain orange, though, they're already good except for the reward.

 

- Lokin and Talos are walking around my stronghold in their underwear for some reason. Why can't my Lana do that too?