trabble Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 i really wonder how to do this. on parsely you find a handfull sorc/sages that actually break the 6k but there are a ton of snipers, mercs and maros that reach 7K. just a few days after 4.0 launch i saw a sab-slinger on t3m4 that pulls 7,3 K DPS. what do i do wrong ? i want to break 7k too ! is that even possible with a sage ?
IkarusXY Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 As sad as it is, i don't think the class can break 7k at the moment in its current state. Quite the contrary even. The hard border seems to be around 6.5k. With that sad, we are still good and viable for all kinds of PvE, but if you really want to break 7k you better reroll to something else (Slinger, Sentinel, Vanguard...)
Divona Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) If you look DPS ranking simulation threads you understand that cap between most dps class specs are big vs sage/sorc. Becuase of the crit damage changes in 4.0 that cap is big and doing 7k i dont see possible right now. 6.5k if you are really lucky with crits that is also for TK spec. And Bioware wont comment 4.0 changes for this class there is nothing else to do. Accept doing less dps or roll other class. In real boss fights with a bit extra adds you can see bit higher dps because of aoe. Edited November 20, 2015 by Divona
Scatmanworlds Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 ive pulled 6488 with a mix of 216 and 220 gear. so 7k should be scrapable. the main issue is the lack of 20 to 30k hits that other class's get. http://parsely.io/parser/view/93165/1
Sindariel Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 ive pulled 6488 with a mix of 216 and 220 gear. so 7k should be scrapable. the main issue is the lack of 20 to 30k hits that other class's get. http://parsely.io/parser/view/93165/1 500k dummy...
Scatmanworlds Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) the 1m parse is there with it... but even on the 500k dummy, PT's are getting 7900 dps... highest sorc/ sage is 6600... the difference is far too large Edited November 21, 2015 by Scatmanworlds
Kawabonga Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) the 1m parse is there with it... but even on the 500k dummy, PT's are getting 7900 dps... highest sorc/ sage is 6600... the difference is far too large The 1m parse is just as meaningless. 1.5 or die. Seriously though, the ttk on the 500k and 1m are too low and RNG is way too big of a component on it. The larger the health pool the better when you're trying to prove a point (Not to say your point isn't valid, sorcs are parsing way too low) Edited November 21, 2015 by Kawabonga
Ryuku-sama Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) The 1m parse is just as meaningless. 1.5 or die. Seriously though, the ttk on the 500k and 1m are too low and RNG is way too big of a component on it. The larger the health pool the better when you're trying to prove a point (Not to say your point isn't valid, sorcs are parsing way too low) 1.5 isn't better.. 5-10m is minimal to reduce RNG noise. 50m would be ideal IMO but few would parse for like 1h just to get accurate data.And the only way to get a 50m parse is to do it on the dummy without HP module.. Which means no execute and no precise APM. Edited November 21, 2015 by Ryuku-sama
Kawabonga Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) 1.5 isn't better.. 5-10m is minimal to reduce RNG noise. 50m would be ideal IMO but few would parse for like 1h just to get accurate data.And the only way to get a 50m parse is to do it on the dummy without HP module.. Which means no execute and no precise APM. 1,5m is better. I never said it was optimal. Unfortunately you can't sustain a proper rotation for Madness over 1,5m/2m... Edited November 21, 2015 by Kawabonga
Scatmanworlds Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) easy enough to pick parse from the board.... sniper - 7483 dps @ 1.5m http://parsely.io/parser/view/89892/4 PT - 7.25 @ 1.5m http://parsely.io/parser/view/90185/0 Mara - 7234 @ 1.5m http://parsely.io/parser/view/92956/0 Sorc - 6.45 @ 1.5m http://parsely.io/parser/view/83097/0 still a massive difference between other class's Edited November 21, 2015 by Scatmanworlds
Ryuku-sama Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 1,5m is better. I never said it was optimal. Unfortunately you can't sustain a proper rotation for Madness over 1,5m/2m... You actually can. Just spam Force Lightning instead of incorporating Lightning Strike. It actually looks like it is a DPS increase.
ceazare Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) No it's not a dps increase, because Lightning Burns eat Death Marks. If you replace a LS with 1.5 seconds of Force Lightning you'll get another tick of Lightning Burns on average which means one of your other dots will do less damage. Even if it's Crushing Darkness dot it loses more than 100 damage that way which, according to Goblin_Lackey's math, means LS is better. The question is if that's also true on republic side, where Rippling Force isn't a dot. Edited November 21, 2015 by ceazare
Scatmanworlds Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) ok, so I ran out of force at the 1.2m mark... so my overall dps dropped to 5.4k http://parsely.io/parser/view/95021 seems theres no present parses for 2.5m dummy to compare with. 1.5m http://parsely.io/parser/view/95028 you just end up with a steady downhill curve. you can maintain force if you switch to 5 FL per rotation, but you lose a chunk of dps to it. and just for show, heres all 3 logs inc 500k together. http://parsely.io/parser/view/95033/2 Edited November 21, 2015 by Scatmanworlds
Kawabonga Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 You actually can. Just spam Force Lightning instead of incorporating Lightning Strike. It actually looks like it is a DPS increase. Debatable point because of what Pelara said about Lightning Burns eating up Death Marks... I'll do some more testing tomorrow, but i already know the rotation is still Force negative so eventually it will become unsustainable.
Dalthanar Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 On a 1.5 mil dummy without an armour reduction... If you are in full 224 gear I think you are looking at an average parse of 6.3k which with RNG will lift you to 6.5K. I am in mostly 224 gear with some 220 (224 mainhand) and I am just tipping 5.9k on average with my best parse at 6.1K I am raiding NiM at the moment and have spent alot of time and effort and credits (as my maths skills are weak( trying to find the sweat spot for me on my gear. A PT in my guild dinged 65 on Sunday, he did 3 SM pugs, got some drops, spend some tokens, he is on 5.5k on the same dummy this morning.
Scatmanworlds Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 use the armor reduction, everyone else on the dummy does. in a raid you should have all those debuff's on the boss anyways
howdor Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 You actually can. Just spam Force Lightning instead of incorporating Lightning Strike. It actually looks like it is a DPS increase. standard madness/balance protocol is to swap LS, for FL during a 1.5 mill parse as at some point you will tank your energy if you don't. Beign a DPS increase in it self might be debatable now due to the new passive crit bonus it gives your dot ticks and if lightning burns crits along with consuming a deathmark that might not be all bad. back in 3.0 for 1.5 mill parses lightning burns made up a considerable portion of the damage over time based on mine and other peoples parses that i saw
howdor Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) And as far as us sorcs being outclassed by other classes, i say what else is new?. in dummy parses i dont think we have been in top 4 since the beginning of 3.0. Granted our numbers could still be competitive in boss fights all throughout, but after the nerf to lightning the first sorc to break 5k again didn't come until the tail end of 3.0 and had to use a grenade to do it, then 204s came out and it made at least getting there achievable. Our class doesnt have the stupidly powerful damage built in like a PT, or Eng sniper, let alone a mara. We dont have any move like cell burst that can hit for a stupid high amount of dmg (25k plus when super crited) nor do we have a passive base 15% crit on our aoes like eng( which i think already gives a surge bonus to certain moves that are buffed by this) Nor do we have the ridiculous sustain potential of a watchman sentinel. Can we still be viable for PvE? Of course. But if you want to hit those super high dummy numbers then re-roll Edited November 23, 2015 by howdor spelling
Divona Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) +1 to last reply I also rerolled to shadow after playing sage as main since beta. I could virtually dps with blind eyes with sage. But since 3.0 and now 4.0 i see Bioware has no clue or desire to see this class to be competitive with most others. I used in pre 4.0 +2 and +4 set mix since it was only option to have good amount of dps overall. Now i gave up and moved on sadly. Still have hopes that one day Bioware will peek into this class forum subsection and realize what problems they have created in 4.0 for consular/sorcerer dps trees. And to have some odd self heals does not make this class flexible to do much less dps overall. I'm speaking about pve here since Bioware seems to balance using pvp where this class has a lot utility and plays a lot differently. Edited November 23, 2015 by Divona
howdor Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 +1 to last reply I also rerolled to shadow after playing sage as main since beta. I could virtually dps with blind eyes with sage. But since 3.0 and now 4.0 i see Bioware has no clue or desire to see this class to be competitive with most others. I used in pre 4.0 +2 and +4 set mix since it was only option to have good amount of dps overall. Now i gave up and moved on sadly. Still have hopes that one day Bioware will peek into this class forum subsection and realize what problems they have created in 4.0 for consular/sorcerer dps trees. And to have some odd self heals does not make this class flexible to do much less dps overall. I'm speaking about pve here since Bioware seems to balance using pvp where this class has a lot utility and plays a lot differently. Funny thing is there are several threads pointing out the problems with the class as well as more than reasonable solutions to help fix the issues with the class but all we get is nerfed while the already strong classes/specs get stronger
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