nocte_aeterna Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 I acquired a 4th piece for the tank set on my Sin last night, and also had two old 3.0 armoings in my gear. I noticed that the 2-set bonuses (Wither reduces damage by 2%) are double-proccing. So I'm curious for opinions: assuming that I'm receiving 4% in damage reduction, is it worth keeping the 2 old armorings, and foregoing the Deflection 6-set bonus?
KeyboardNinja Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Sort of. It depends on your perspective. The extra 2% DR from the old 2pc (stacked with the new 4pc) is worth more than the 3 seconds on Deflection plus the extra armor rating, if you time average things. However, time averaging is deceptive, and in 4.0 the primary function of armor is not to reduce damage over time but to reduce spikes. You want to eliminate one-shot hits (which now exist, especially if you don't have full B mods). The set bonus proc isn't up 100% of the time, which means that you're sacrificing worst-case mitigation to pick up better average mitigation. In previous patches, that would have been a no-brainer. Now though, I'll take the better worst-case armor.
nocte_aeterna Posted November 12, 2015 Author Posted November 12, 2015 Sort of. It depends on your perspective. The extra 2% DR from the old 2pc (stacked with the new 4pc) is worth more than the 3 seconds on Deflection plus the extra armor rating, if you time average things. However, time averaging is deceptive, and in 4.0 the primary function of armor is not to reduce damage over time but to reduce spikes. You want to eliminate one-shot hits (which now exist, especially if you don't have full B mods). The set bonus proc isn't up 100% of the time, which means that you're sacrificing worst-case mitigation to pick up better average mitigation. In previous patches, that would have been a no-brainer. Now though, I'll take the better worst-case armor. Thanks for the insight. I haven't done much HM tanking in 4.0 yet, but I've heard about the likes of Raptus from guildies. Saw my co-tank take a gigantic hit from Thrasher last night, too, so I'll be sure to start stacking more of those B mods.
KeyboardNinja Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Thanks for the insight. I haven't done much HM tanking in 4.0 yet, but I've heard about the likes of Raptus from guildies. Saw my co-tank take a gigantic hit from Thrasher last night, too, so I'll be sure to start stacking more of those B mods. Thrasher isn't so bad, though he does hit relatively hard. Raptus hits like a truck (75k+ on a sin, and frequently). Calphayus is also quite bad, though more sustained than spiky. Master-Blaster spikes extremely hard. So there are a few.
Kadjunga Posted November 13, 2015 Posted November 13, 2015 What about the old 186 armorings though? The extra 5% shield chance seems kinda too big to pass up. Especially if you keep it on boots/gloves which have low armor contribution.
Simmerr Posted November 13, 2015 Posted November 13, 2015 What about the old 186 armorings though? The extra 5% shield chance seems kinda too big to pass up. Especially if you keep it on boots/gloves which have low armor contribution. I'm using this plus 224 4 piece set bonus on my sins. Dipstik did some work HERE showing the decrease in squish in his model when using 186 set bonus
KeyboardNinja Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) I'm using this plus 224 4 piece set bonus on my sins. Dipstik did some work HERE showing the decrease in squish in his model when using 186 set bonus The decrease in squish is not significant. Similar to stacking the 3.0 and 4.0 2pc bonuses, this is something that increases mean mitigation but reduces worst case mitigation. I would rather have the extra armor and health, because even though it's a relatively small difference in maximum spike magnitude, there are fights where it's legitimately noticeable. I never thought I'd be saying this, but honestly in 4.0, TTK is the metric you want to optimize as a tank, not mean mitigation. Healers have such insane margins on their sustained output in the hardest content, while burst is simply out of control in places (e.g. NiM Brontes burn phase). And if you're optimizing TTK, that means armor/endurance/ablation > all (defining "ablation" as effects like Reactive Warding or the new adrenal). Edited November 16, 2015 by KeyboardNinja
Simmerr Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) The decrease in squish is not significant. Similar to stacking the 3.0 and 4.0 2pc bonuses, this is something that increases mean mitigation but reduces worst case mitigation. I would rather have the extra armor and health, because even though it's a relatively small difference in maximum spike magnitude, there are fights where it's legitimately noticeable. I never thought I'd be saying this, but honestly in 4.0, TTK is the metric you want to optimize as a tank, not mean mitigation. Healers have such insane margins on their sustained output in the hardest content, while burst is simply out of control in places (e.g. NiM Brontes burn phase). And if you're optimizing TTK, that means armor/endurance/ablation > all (defining "ablation" as effects like Reactive Warding or the new adrenal). I guess I'd question if the difference in armor and health on an undefended hit is that much more significant than a 5% increased chance to absorb 60% + (80%+ with recklessness) of a big hit. ie how much of the 75k raptus hit is being mitigated in full 224 armorings vs 224 + 2 186 armorings, and the comparison of that value to the value of a 5% increased shield chance combined with near optimal armor rating in those situations. Obviously armor rating is always present, but with absorb values inflated by old 198 mods, it seems like a 5% greater chance to absorb 58-63% (80%?) of the damage seems attractive to me. Edited November 17, 2015 by Simmerr
Aelanis Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 I guess I'd question if the difference in armor and health on an undefended hit is that much more significant than a 5% increased chance to absorb 60% + (80%+ with recklessness) of a big hit. ie how much of the 75k raptus hit is being mitigated in full 224 armorings vs 224 + 2 186 armorings, and the comparison of that value to the value of a 5% increased shield chance combined with near optimal armor rating in those situations. Obviously armor rating is always present, but with absorb values inflated by old 198 mods, it seems like a 5% greater chance to absorb 58-63% (80%?) of the damage seems attractive to me. Yes, but using the 198 mods and the 186 armorings is going to really badly hurt your hit point pool, to where small hits after that 75k hit are going to finish you off, and you'll need to constantly be kept at full health, which will require the healers to babysit you. Now, if you play carefully as an Assassin, you can greatly reduce your chances of getting spiked to death by trading off hits with your cotank and working around the driving thrust timer, as well as being careful about your proximity to the boss while taunting, but that also doesn't hold in some of the other spiky fights.
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