Hiply Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) If some of the "immersion" logic behind syncing is that "a blaster bolt to the face is a blaster bolt to the face whether you're 5 or 65, so it makes sense for mobs on starter planets to be able to hit a seasoned veteran fully decked out in the best armor in the game" then... Why isn't the reverse true? Why, if scaling makes sense from an "immersion" perspective, doesn't it happen in both directions? I mean, if a blaster bolt in the face is a blaster bolt in the face then a L10 should be able to hit and damage a L65 NPC elite or standard boss...right? Edited November 11, 2015 by Hiply
JWagner Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 But a blaster bolt to the face of an untrained jedi hurts so much more than a blaster bolt to a trained jedi. Killing a padawan is far easier than a master. See anakin and the younglings. That was easy, and Obi kicked his rear end and burned him alive
VanorDM Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 It's also not even remotely like a lvl 65 on a lvl 10 planet is the same power level as a real level 10 character.
Belidos_Goveko Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 If you could sync up to higher level zones what would the point of levelling be?
Hiply Posted November 11, 2015 Author Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) If you could sync up to higher level zones what would the point of levelling be? That's a really good question. It has nothing to do with the argument that syncing is immersive though. Edited November 11, 2015 by Hiply
VanorDM Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 It has nothing to do with the argument that syncing is immersive though. An argument you already lost.... So you're just trying to start it again and it will end up with the same points being made as last time.
Drudenfusz Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 If some of the "immersion" logic behind syncing is that "a blaster bolt to the face is a blaster bolt to the face whether you're 5 or 65, so it makes sense for mobs on starter planets to be able to hit a seasoned veteran fully decked out in the best armor in the game" then... Why isn't the reverse true? Why, if scaling makes sense from an "immersion" perspective, doesn't it happen in both directions? I mean, if a blaster bolt in the face is a blaster bolt in the face then a L10 should be able to hit and damage a L65 NPC elite or standard boss...right? Getting levelled up a level sync could harm the story immersion... thus it is a one way street exactly because of immersion!
Sarfux Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 No, it shouldn't be where you get leveled up. the reason why they put this great system in is so we have the whole galaxy to do stuff in! Not just wait for higher level planets to continue doing linear things and then just wait...and wait..and wait. Now, if I want I can level my 48 Agent or Trooper on Coruscant, Tatooine, Nar Shaddaa in no particular order! You can just go wherever. THAT is fantastic and it sets up future content to be anywhere of their choosing.
Hebruixe Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 If you could sync up to higher level zones what would the point of levelling be? I'm neutral on this issue, but it's easy to answer your question. If bi-directional level syncing bolstered you up to the minimum level requirement for the planet you're visiting, you would still benefit from gaining new levels and progressing toward the maximum level allowed on that planet. Furthermore, leveling up unlocks new abilities, new passives, new crew skill slots, new character perks and new xmog options (i.e., gear with level restrictions becomes available through increasing one's level).
Hiply Posted November 11, 2015 Author Posted November 11, 2015 An argument you already lost.... So you're just trying to start it again and it will end up with the same points being made as last time. No, you're not getting it. I bowed out of the argument that I should be godlike on starter planets after getting bashed with "immersion, immersion, immersion and immersion says a blaster bolt to the face is a blaster bolt to the face!" and it got me to thinking about why that's only valid in one direction. Your answer is completely not responsive to that question of immersion and is instead nothing more than a personal attack.
Hiply Posted November 11, 2015 Author Posted November 11, 2015 Getting levelled up a level sync could harm the story immersion... thus it is a one way street exactly because of immersion! How would it not be immersive?
Princess_Chibi Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 "Please nerf them more so I can do L65 content and kill high levels at L10." Called it....Everyone was warned level sync would never be enough for these peeps... They want it all, L65 ops being carried all the way through, after this will be equipping the highest gear at any level; because it's "not fair" that a L10 gets spanked by a L65 with little effort.
JWagner Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 How would it not be immersive? How would it be..? You get the exp based on your real level. PRoblem is, the exp gains on higher planets are usually much higher, and you could essentially grind the planets exploration the same way you grind flash points now. On top of that, it would require a recode of the planets. Alot of the planets don't activate til a specific level. So they'd need adjusted to look at sync level, etc. Far too much work, with so little real gain?
VanorDM Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) It's quite contrary to immersion to think that a lvl 10 Jedi who's just passed the trials should be on par with a lvl 65 Jedi Master in advanced armor. It also doesn't work out mechanically, as has been proven time and time again with bolster systems in other MMO's. You can't just add HP's and other stats to a lvl 20 character and have them actually be on par with a lvl 50 character. It quite simply does not work. However it does work ok the other way, a Jedi Master is still very powerful on pretty much every planet, but not completely invincible, which is something they should never be. Edited November 11, 2015 by VanorDM
TUXs Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 No, it shouldn't be where you get leveled up. the reason why they put this great system in is so we have the whole galaxy to do stuff in! Not just wait for higher level planets to continue doing linear things and then just wait...and wait..and wait. Now, if I want I can level my 48 Agent or Trooper on Coruscant, Tatooine, Nar Shaddaa in no particular order! You can just go wherever. THAT is fantastic and it sets up future content to be anywhere of their choosing. You realize that if they leveled you up, your 48 could visit amazing places like Ziost and Rishi too right? You'd have MORE to do...everyone would...in no particular order...just go wherever.
VanorDM Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 You realize that if they leveled you up, your 48 could visit amazing places like Ziost and Rishi too right? But could a lvl 10 character even if they were bolstered up to lvl 60 actually survive those places? I rather doubt it myself. Also there's nothing wrong about having various planets locked behind the story line. I mean if someone really wanted a sandbox experience where they could go where they wanted, when they wanted... Why play this game?
TheAresian Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 I once read a similar discussion online regarding either hit points or health in another game. The immersion aspect was explained more or less as follows: Health/hit points/energy are only part of the equation. The blaster bolt that the level 10 fired may have only struck a glancing blow to the cheek of that lvl 65 due to the higher level character's reflexes or perhaps the nerves of the lower character. It's a logical argument for older games like the tabletop D&D where almost everything is how the player visualizes it to be. However, it could also apply to the more immersive and detailed roleplayers. How does it apply to level sync? The PC is more skilled/battle tested than the lower level NPCs on level synched planets, but it's still possible however unlikely that the NPC lands a one in a million shot. It is perhaps a bit of a stretch to put so much out there visually and then ask the player to imagine something else. Just imagine you're watching pro wrestling only with light sabers and blasters.
ikinai Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Sure this is where it all starts, first you want bi-directionality, next thing you know it's all about poly-directional syncing. What's after that? Getting married to droids? What's this galaxy coming to!?
VanorDM Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 The blaster bolt that the level 10 fired may have only struck a glancing blow to the cheek of that lvl 65 due to the higher level character's reflexes or perhaps the nerves of the lower character. That idea has been around since about 1975 or so... It's never really worked though, because the human body can only take so much damage regardless of how well you're trained. Sure a pro boxer or MMA fighter will be able to take more than me. But you stab one of them and they'll bleed the same. Sure they may be better able to deflect the blow or avoid it, but that becomes a matter of reflexes and armor rather than just HP's. HP's have always been a purely mechanical thing that at best don't break immersion. But I agree with your overall point, a character no matter how powerful should be completely invincible, which is what a max lvl character on a starter planet was. Now they're merely semi-invincible, which IMO is fine, because my character is in fact visibly more powerful now than the first time I was there. But doing level sync in the reverse, does break immersion because it would damage any sense of actual progression or improvement.
VanorDM Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 What's after that? Getting married to droids? What's this galaxy coming to!? Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
TUXs Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Sure this is where it all starts, first you want bi-directionality, next thing you know it's all about poly-directional syncing. What's after that? Getting married to droids? What's this galaxy coming to!? DON'T CALL THEM THAT! You can't use the D word, only they can use it...cuz it's trademarked. Call them AI's. AI's are people-like-ish too!
Hiply Posted November 11, 2015 Author Posted November 11, 2015 Sure this is where it all starts, first you want bi-directionality, next thing you know it's all about poly-directional syncing. What's after that? Getting married to droids? What's this galaxy coming to!? +1, because really, who knows where it all might lead?
TX_Angel Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Sure this is where it all starts, first you want bi-directionality, next thing you know it's all about poly-directional syncing. What's after that? Getting married to droids? What's this galaxy coming to!? I *heart* T7 forever!
hadoken Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 The reverse wouldn't break immersion but it would break cohesion. There is a plan as to where you should go to level at any given level. That they also have content at cap that takes place on lower level planets and want to make that still somewhat relevant (insert companion debate here) is different from the leveling trek from start to finish. But beyond the whole 'immersion' argument the other practical impact of the sync is to ensure you are never OVERLEVEL for the planet/quest you're doing. So you're always rewarded. That's a good thing, mechanically.
Mithros Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Because the story moves you from planet to planet. Makes no sense to go to Corellia to take part in the ending of the war if the war hasn't even officially started yet. Does it make great sense that you can not go to Corellia until the story allows it? No, but that only matters if you think that you should go to Corellia for some reason, and the only reasons you can come up with are not supported by the story. You can complain that not being allowed to go to Corellia is immersion-breaking but you only want to go there in order to break immersion anyway. "Han Solo used a light saber... My smuggler should be able to use one, too". "My trooper uses a pistol in his cut scenes. Why can't I equip one instead of a rifle/cannon?". "My <insert tech user> can use force abilities. I should be able to multiclass as a <insert force user>". Every one of those can break immersion, but only if you want them to. Not being able to go to certain planets at certain times works the exact same way.
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