OldVengeance Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) How could Vitiate have been in two places at once? Why would he need to flee into Wild Space at all if he was already there? How could he have been both leading the Eternal Empire and unconscious on Yavin 4? If he already had a body on Zakuul, why did he need the war on Yavin to be reborn? Even as a bodiless presence on Ziost, he still had to exist in a general geographic location. If he was in two places at once during "Rise of the Emperor," is he still? Or did his incorporeal presence go back to Zakuul to merge with Valkorian's body or something? I know occasionally characters muse about the unexplained questions about the discrepancies between their experiences, such as why Vitiate didn't use the Eternal Fleet to crush the Republic, or how Valkorian could have ever been a benevolent ruler, but this seems like the question somebody should have asked right at the start. Edited November 10, 2015 by OldVengeance
Joachimthbear Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) I got the impression that just as Vitiate was absent and doing secret stuff for most of his time as Sith Emperor, Valkorion was also known to go missing on occasion, with not even Senya knowing what he was up to. It seems Vitiate spent most of his time as Valkorion, ducking out occasionally under the pretext of some secret project or other. I could be wrong, though. If Valkorion was capable of functioning when not possessed by Vitiate, he might be something more like a Child of the Emperor, though those were only created relatively recently in the timeline. Edited November 10, 2015 by Joachimthbear
SerraShar Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Senya say he become absent and neglected his familly . I assumed during those times , he was possessing someone elsewhere . During the sith warrior story , he possessed a Voss mystic body . And the stronger one is the force the further are their reach no? So he probably have a great reach and focus and can multi-task
Leaveshill Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Senya says that "Valkorion became cold, distant", and "it was like if he wasn't really there" or something, as he didn't "Notice any of us for weeks at a time", which could mean that he was there, but his mind was not (as his mind was elsewhere, literally). Or maybe he just left his body completely all the time, but I find that a bit weird as well.
Deshiel Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 He was no longer a person by the time he became Valkorion. He is a force entity now so perhaps its no big deal for him to posses more bodies at once. I think that there is a limit to how many he can posses so during the events of act 1,2,3 for all classes only a small fragment of his being resided on zacool while he focused most of his being on the characters in the original swtor story. That could be the reason why he was so distant.
DAWUSS Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Senya says that "Valkorion became cold, distant", and "it was like if he wasn't really there" or something, as he didn't "Notice any of us for weeks at a time", which could mean that he was there, but his mind was not (as his mind was elsewhere, literally). Or maybe he just left his body completely all the time, but I find that a bit weird as well. It was probably when he served his role as Voice of the Emperor
that_Spartan_IV Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 I feel as though Valkorian was the actual body, but the Sith Emperor we know of was simply his voice, and when Senya speaks of him being "gone" for weeks, that's when he was possessing that body.
Isnogut Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 How could Vitiate have been in two places at once? Why would he need to flee into Wild Space at all if he was already there? How could he have been both leading the Eternal Empire and unconscious on Yavin 4? If he already had a body on Zakuul, why did he need the war on Yavin to be reborn? Even as a bodiless presence on Ziost, he still had to exist in a general geographic location. If he was in two places at once during "Rise of the Emperor," is he still? Or did his incorporeal presence go back to Zakuul to merge with Valkorian's body or something? I know occasionally characters muse about the unexplained questions about the discrepancies between their experiences, such as why Vitiate didn't use the Eternal Fleet to crush the Republic, or how Valkorian could have ever been a benevolent ruler, but this seems like the question somebody should have asked right at the start. Herer is something to think about: When our avatar is confronting Valkorion in the Throne room for the first time, he seems quite suprised that we think he might be "our" Emperor. Later he goes with this idea, but did he ever admitted, he might be Vitiate? I think this one is playing us, letting us belive what we want. Letting us think what we want, is giving him a way stronger pawn. It's not like, I wouldn't prefer the idea of him be etither Vitiate or not. It's like, Valkorion is so totally different from Vitiate. Actually anything he is doing is different. Even all of his motives. The personalities are absoulte different. And after this particular scene I mentioned, it gave me to think.
Joachimthbear Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Agreed, there is at least some possibility that Valkorion has been bluffing us. The only truly clear evidence that Valkorion is Vitiate is Marr saying that his presence was "unmistakeable". Anything Valkorion seems to show us of the Sith Empire during the crazy carbonite hallucination sequence could just be him reading the outlander's mind, collecting information he can use later.
Audoucet Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Or BW, is just pulling a Revan on us again, and Vitiate got rid entirely of his human side, In Valk. The twins being a metaphorical incarnation of this.
renatolnsp Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 If you are a Knight, Valkorion will address Scourge as a "traitor", i think this kinda proves the is Vitiate even if i believe the writers screwed up and made some retcons to make them the same person.
OldVengeance Posted November 15, 2015 Author Posted November 15, 2015 Herer is something to think about: When our avatar is confronting Valkorion in the Throne room for the first time, he seems quite suprised that we think he might be "our" Emperor. Later he goes with this idea, but did he ever admitted, he might be Vitiate? I think this one is playing us, letting us belive what we want. Letting us think what we want, is giving him a way stronger pawn. It's not like, I wouldn't prefer the idea of him be etither Vitiate or not. It's like, Valkorion is so totally different from Vitiate. Actually anything he is doing is different. Even all of his motives. The personalities are absoulte different. And after this particular scene I mentioned, it gave me to think. I actually had the same idea. Valkorian gives off the impression like he's not quite sure what we're talking about when we meet him. In Chapter 2 when he starts talking about being the Emperor, he is already in the PC's mind and thus knows their memories. Even so, the so much of the narrative seems to be built Valkorian being Vitiate, I find it unlikely they are going to create another twist where they aren't the same person.
Isnogut Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 I have a theory recently developed. Prior posts brought me to this conclusion, but I'm not quite sure if it might fit because of the timetable. When did Vitiate become vacant from the Sith empire? About 1000 years. About the same time Valkorian appeared on Zakuul and began to reshape it. Ok, this would fit. When did Valkorian shut down a part of Vaylins psyche, also her powers away? If I remember correctly she was around 12 years old. ... When did the timeline of the SWTOR story began? Circa 7 years ago. This is about the time Vitiate began to behave quite strange. So let's assume 7 years ago Vitiate-Valkorian did something wrong while shutting parts of Vaylins mind. He was separated from his voice and other embodiments. Instead of him, Vaylins closed mind wandered around gathering the power and somehow even weakened Valkorian. Further I assume, Valkorian doesn’t know the Outlander from direct contact at all. He is although the real Vitiate. That might explain why he is behaving surprised at their first meeting. And this might explain why Marr recognised his dark aura. I also assume, he read the Outlanders mind during the fight for his life in the Carbonite. Now Vitiate wants all his power back. Who might be a better ally as the one who pushed moved the entire known galaxy, the Outlander? Either way the Outland is, he still is a force to reckon with. Either he is tenacious, a mastermind, a skilled fighter, or one of the most potent force users. In any case the Outlander is now Valkorians Joker in his sleeve. Who might be the real threat? IMHO both, Vitiate and Vaylin, because both are very dangerous creatures. But for now I assume Vaylin is the real evil overlord for this SWTOR expansion.
OldVengeance Posted November 15, 2015 Author Posted November 15, 2015 I'm pretty sure Valkorian has been ruling the Eternal Empire for much less time than the Sith Empire. Didn't the characters say it's been like a between one and two centuries?
Audoucet Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 By the way, do we know, what exactly was the point of attacking the Republic and the Empire, If you are already a rich indestructible invisible Kingdom, and you don't even occupy your own conquests ?
Isnogut Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 Arkann said in one of the videocuts they were "scouting" ...yeah, right, with a massive, battlehartened heavily armed strikeforce.
Audoucet Posted November 16, 2015 Posted November 16, 2015 Arkann said in one of the videocuts they were "scouting" ...yeah, right, with a massive, battlehartened heavily armed strikeforce. Scouting Valk's other Empire...
OldVengeance Posted November 17, 2015 Author Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) The problem I have with the idea that either Valkorian or Vitiate was the voice of the other is that the the Hand seems to describe the Emperor as being silent while he is trapped on Voss, so I think when he possesses a Voice, he still doesn't sound like he can be conscious in two places at once. And if so, the way he was described as being "distracted" by the people who knew him in Zakuul doesn't seem to be able to account for the amount of time he'd have to have been busy doing Emperor things that we saw in the Class Stories part of the game. I mean Scourge alone was supposed to be in semi-regular contact with him for centuries, right? I think he predate's the Eternal Empire by at least a century. Edited November 17, 2015 by OldVengeance
Pietrastor Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) The problem I have with the idea that either Valkorian or Vitiate was the voice of the other is that the the Hand seems to describe the Emperor as being silent while he is trapped on Voss, so I think when he possesses a Voice, he still doesn't sound like he can be conscious in two places at once. And if so, the way he was described as being "distracted" by the people who knew him in Zakuul doesn't seem to be able to account for the amount of time he'd have to have been busy doing Emperor things that we saw in the Class Stories part of the game. And even in class content in the original game the 'absent' and distant Emperor is regularly mentioned. I mean Scourge alone was supposed to be in semi-regular contact with him for centuries, right? I think he predate's the Eternal Empire by at least a century.Class content is no longer than few weeks/months. Eternal Empire is century old and Senya mentions regular and prolonged periods of times Valkoarion has been "absent" and ignoring her and children. I don't think this is that much of a problem. The biggest issue at this point is Valkorion's origins IMO. He can't really be Pureblood Sith from Marka Ragnos' Empire anymore. They need to reconcile with his Pureblood body still being important somehow for some reason. Edited November 19, 2015 by Pietrastor
OldVengeance Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) A Jedi Consular went from Padawan to the Jedi Council over the course of a few weeks? Edited November 19, 2015 by OldVengeance
lokdron Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) A Jedi Consular went from Padawan to the Jedi Council over the course of a few weeks? Well actually bioware said the chapter 1-3 stories were a few years. If I recall correctly. Edited November 19, 2015 by lokdron
Isnogut Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 The biggest issue at this point is Valkorion's origins IMO. He can't really be Pureblood Sith from Marka Ragnos' Empire anymore. They need to reconcile with his Pureblood body still being important somehow for some reason. Where do you got the idea Vitiate would be a Pureblood and not human? Nobody ever said he would be Purebood at all.
PadsterPwns Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Where do you got the idea Vitiate would be a Pureblood and not human? Nobody ever said he would be Purebood at all. It's described in the Revan novel that Vitiate is a Pureblood with black eyes.
Katahn Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 It's described in the Revan novel that Vitiate is a Pureblood with black eyes. Technically speaking that could have been just another Voice and not his true form. Even if he could be properly said to have a true form at all now.
Isnogut Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Technically speaking that could have been just another Voice and not his true form. Even if he could be properly said to have a true form at all now. Didn't thought of that. This opens a totally new point of view over the true nature of Vitiate. And I wasn't aware Vitiate was a Pureblood. Still I'm not so sure about this part, since I red severals articles about him, and none of them mentioned he was a Pureblood. But all mentioned his black eyes.
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