The fairness in Preferred Status, or lack thereof.

[VanorDM]

Like the person said, they spent toons of money on this game..

 

That person is most likely completely wrong. At the very least they have no evidence to support that claim. You can be a preferred member by spending as little as $5 on it. Or subscribe once for $15... Neither amount is even remotely a toon let alone a ton of money.

[XiamaraSimi]

If the credit cap left tomorrow, I'd unsub instantly. So would a lot of other people.

 

No amount of decos or mounts would change that, I have more than I can ever use.

 

The credit cap is the only reason to stay subbed, I am wealthy in the game and can buy everything on the GTN I'll ever need.

 

From the game's point of view, the credit cap is totally fair, and the right thing to do. But yea, selfish me would say to ditch it so I can freeload.

 

Well said. I dont do WZs so no worries about hitting the cap on those.

 

They broke on rails space (essential parts unequip when you zone, bad for fighting when parts of your ship are sitting in its cargo hold instead of where they need to be...) so no worries about that cap.

 

I dont do GSF, so if they even have a weekly cap for that, doesnt matter to me.

 

You can buy GTN slot unlocks from the CM/off the GTN, another non issue.

 

I used a referral link so i have useful vanity unlocks on every character

 

I have so many outfits unlocked with minimal headpieces i can get around hide helmet with no issue, another non issue.

 

Crew skills you can get unlocks for. Another non issue.

 

Server character limit was raised by a huge amount, hmm, still no issue.

 

So that leaves... credit cap for me as incentive to sub.

 

Hmm, what should Bioware do?

 

Star Trek Online sold a "Credit Cap Unlock" when it went free to play. Guess what? I, and everyone i know that played bought the unlock and unsubbed.

Edited November 10, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[Meraxos]

A few decos or mounts wouldn't be enough of a reason to pay $15/month. Why would you sub for such a game?

They give subscribers a variety of permanent boosts like 25% additional XP gain and additional credits dropping from mobs. A whole list of things like this.

 

Don't get me wrong about Wildstar. I think their FTP model is a good one. But their fatal mistake is that they have created a FTP model that will attract a ton of casual players but they have not modified their existing content or created new content that is appropriate for those players.

 

SWTOR, on the other hand, has greatly modified it's content to be very appealing to casual players. The only question is how many will stick around past the first month or two.

 

Sadly, I'm a pessimist and expect both games to go through a brief resurgence and then slowly fade away.

[VanorDM]

But making attacks on personal lives over it ("If you can't afford this game, you have bigger problems to worry about, and you should fix those before playing this game") gets really old, really fast.

 

That's not an attack that's just good advice. There's plenty of things out there that some people can't afford to do. That's just a simple statement of facts. I play miniature games like X-Wing and Armada, those cost quite a lot of money. There's plenty of people out there who don't have the spare cash for that. That's not something to be ashamed of, but it also doesn't mean that FFG needs to start giving away their models for free.

 

$15/Month really isn't a lot of money, and for anyone who thinks it is due to their financial situation quite honestly have other things they need to focus on.

[hadoken]

I think the biggest problem with preferred, to be honest, is how the rest of the userbase looks down on you for not paying to play "their" game.

 

This only really happens when you complain that what you're getting for free isn't good enough.

 

I think it's a valid reaction from those of us that are paying. It IS what separates us from you. You do see that, right?

[thebobmaster]

This only really happens when you complain that what you're getting for free isn't good enough.

 

I think it's a valid reaction from those of us that are paying. It IS what separates us from you. You do see that, right?

 

Like I said, when you are saying it in response to demands, that's one thing. But as soon as I say something about how the credit cap is a bit annoying, I get hit with comments about how I need to get a job. Ignoring the fact that I have one, but just not one that pays on a regular enough basis for anything monthly, and have no real prospects to get a better job until I graduate and move to a different area where being monolingual is not as much of a handicap.

 

Again, I can understand subs reacting to the complaining and demands of Preferred. To be honest, we/they are in no position to demand anything other than being able to pay. But there is a difference between wanting something and demanding it. But as soon as I say I would like to see something, it's seen as saying that Bioware needs to do it to keep me playing, and I'm seen as a leech. That's the part that gets to me.

[JessieLoverRxE]

You don't know if that is true... I imagine just as many people bought $5 worth of CC and became preferred and never spent another dime...

 

Or they subbed for 1 month, or bought SoR to become preferred and get their level cap raised.

 

None of those people spent "tons of money" on the game, they spent $5-20 on it. BFD...

 

I've spent more than $2K on this game since it launched, if I unsub tomorrow, I'm not owed a thing. Imagine that, I get how it works.

 

The difference between f2p and pref is so small, i doubt anyone would pay $5 or have a one month only sub with the sole purpese they can then hold 100k more cash and send mail lol. ( did i already mention you can't even send money to your alts?)

 

Idk...I personaly wouldn't consider unsubing because other people can have the same amount of money as long as they put effort into it..but I'm starting to see this may just be my opinion. Or maybe you people just aren't using the 60 days pre-paid like I have to (can't sub trough the offical site since it keeps rejecting my money for whatever reason ***), to actually get to see the overall difference that goes beyond the credit cap.

 

If in-game money is so important, consider this; The things you buy from the cartel matket using the 500cc's you get a month - how much credits do you earn selling those items on gtn? And also (fun, a bit selfish part but)....how much more would you get if people besides subs would have no credit cap yet still no cc's that you have?

[VanorDM]

But as soon as I say something about how the credit cap is a bit annoying, I get hit with comments about how I need to get a job

 

Actually most people were saying that the credit cap is there to get people to sub. It''s only when people start to complain about it and make statements about how some people can't afford to sub that those comments are made.

 

And again they aren't personal attacks, if you're taking them as such, that's on you not the person saying it.

[JessieLoverRxE]

I think the biggest problem with preferred, to be honest, is how the rest of the userbase looks down on you for not paying to play "their" game. I mean, I can understand that you are tired of hearing about how this or that isn't fair, blah blah blah. But making attacks on personal lives over it ("If you can't afford this game, you have bigger problems to worry about, and you should fix those before playing this game") gets really old, really fast. My financial status, or lack thereof, is quite frankly not much of your business. Insulting people for being unable or unwilling to scrape together $15 every month to sub doesn't make me want to sub. But then, you don't want us lowly folk to play the game anyways, so why bother?

 

I'll step off my soapbox now. That's just something that's been building up in me for a while now, and I felt I needed to finally say my piece about it, even knowing I'll probably get slammed for it.

 

I actually don't get how some people can be this uptight either. The very thought of removing a restriction on unsubs seems to bring out so much emotion they can't even see how thy themselves would profit for this.

 

...tell me something (speaking in general) who needs those unlocks from cm but can't afford the mils you priced? Perhals some subs who are planning on unsubing and want to get ready for their pref status; but really...most are ppl who can't pay for it because they have the freaking credit cap. They want it. You want to sell it , but guess what?

[hadoken]

Like I said, when you are saying it in response to demands, that's one thing. But as soon as I say something about how the credit cap is a bit annoying, I get hit with comments about how I need to get a job. Ignoring the fact that I have one, but just not one that pays on a regular enough basis for anything monthly, and have no real prospects to get a better job until I graduate and move to a different area where being monolingual is not as much of a handicap.

 

Again, I can understand subs reacting to the complaining and demands of Preferred. To be honest, we/they are in no position to demand anything other than being able to pay. But there is a difference between wanting something and demanding it. But as soon as I say I would like to see something, it's seen as saying that Bioware needs to do it to keep me playing, and I'm seen as a leech. That's the part that gets to me.

 

Part of the issue is, and this isn't really your fault but you'll be blamed for it, a lot of subscribers were subscribing back when that was the only way TO play the game, and see F2P/Preferred as a necessary evil to keep the game alive. So any complaints really come off as wanting more of something you shouldn't have in the first place.

 

For example, myself, when I'm not subscribing for this game I'm not playing it. At all. And that's how I treat any game that has a subscription, really.

Edited November 10, 2015 by hadoken

[ryoutou]

But making attacks on personal lives over it ("If you can't afford this game, you have bigger problems to worry about, and you should fix those before playing this game") gets really old, really fast. My financial status, or lack thereof, is quite frankly not much of your business. Insulting people for being unable or unwilling to scrape together $15 every month to sub doesn't make me want to sub.

 

It is just illogical that a person who can afford a net connection and a computer to run the game on would not be able to scrape up $15 for something that is a big enough priority that they make long impassioned posts about. It simply doesn't compute. But hey, I'll allow I don't know people's situations...benefits of the doubt, choice, etc.

 

A lot of these folks who are arguing for more features for free seem to want the game paid for on the back of people who can and do pay for optional visual things. Seen it mentioned quite a bit - and there is already quite a bit of that going on with the cartel market already, not to mention the subscriptions themselves.

 

Those paying customers are already subsidizing a whole lot of free content for folks that "can't afford" $15 a month....but can afford a net connection and a computer to run the game on. And can take the time to play the game. Which, fine.

 

At what point is the content available for free...whether Preferred or otherwise enough?

 

Never. It will never be enough for some folks.

 

But if you make a laundry list of what is available...1-50 on all classes? Free.

 

That is enough no matter what restrictions are put on the game. It is a massive amount of content.

[VanorDM]

My issue is when someone claims that it's unfair they don't get more. It really makes me wonder if they even understand the concept of fairness or not.

 

Fair is getting what you paid for, if you paid nothing and get something then there can be nothing really unfair about what you get. So when someone calls it unfair, it really rubs a lot of people the wrong way, and rightfully so.

[thebobmaster]

It is just illogical that a person who can afford a net connection and a computer to run the game on would not be able to scrape up $15 for something that is a big enough priority that they make long impassioned posts about. .

 

That's fair enough. As for my own situation, I can't afford either the net connection or the computer. The computer is an old one of my brother-in-law, and the net connection is my family's, who I live with since I can't get a permanent job to move out. I'll allow that there aren't many in my situation, and I agree that the preferred/F2P demanding changes gets to be too much. My entire point is that no one can say for sure why they aren't a sub, or why they can't afford to sub. In my case, pretty much all my money goes straight to gas, or oil, or other essentials.

 

I suppose I should say that the people saying that I should take care of my life aren't what upset me. It's the people who either imply or flat-out state that I'm blowing my money elsewhere ("Stop drinking at Starbuck's every week and you could afford it"), when I just flat-out do not have the discretionary funds.

[TX_Angel]

But making attacks on personal lives over it ("If you can't afford this game, you have bigger problems to worry about, and you should fix those before playing this game") gets really old, really fast.

 

It isn't a personal attack, it is a true statement that generically applies to any and all comers...

 

I have no problems with using my tax dollars to fund food banks, there is no excuse in our modern society to ever let anyone go hungry. I'm quite ok with part of my wealth and efforts being used to provide for those who are truly suffering and who need help. That is what separates us from cavemen and makes us civilized.

 

SWTOR is a bloody VIDEO GAME. It is not a "need", it is a "want". If you WANT to play it, then you NEED to pay for it.

 

If you CAN'T pay for it, or don't WANT to pay for it, fine, then go do something else. What those of us who DO pay for it get really sick of are the freeloaders who want to play for free while paying nothing for it, while expecting the rest of us to do so.

 

If you're hungry, I will feed you. If you're bored and want to play a video game, pay for it yourself.

[TX_Angel]

They give subscribers a variety of permanent boosts like 25% additional XP gain and additional credits dropping from mobs. A whole list of things like this.

 

Meh, once you're wealthy, more credits from mobs doesn't mean much...

 

XP gains can be nice for grindy games that take weeks to get levels, but when you level up three times in an hour, slowing it down to twice an hour isn't a huge penalty (looking at you SWTOR)...

 

I return to my point, without a credit cap, without limits, what reason is there to sub? A few mounts/decos/credits?

[VanorDM]

It's the people who either imply or flat-out state that I'm blowing my money elsewhere ("Stop drinking at Starbuck's every week and you could afford it"), when I just flat-out do not have the discretionary funds.

 

If someone is actually saying that, then they need to stop. But I don't think they're saying what you think they are.

 

They're just pointing out that $15/month is the same as about one cup of coffee at starbucks a week. It's more of a comparison to how much money that is.

 

I'm sure there's some people like you who are lucky enough to have a computer they maybe couldn't afford, and can't swing $15 a month. For people like you, there's the F2P system, and that's great because you can get a lot of play time without spending money.

 

Yes the credit cap is a limit, but it's supposed to be a limit, because otherwise those who could afford to pay wouldn't.

[thebobmaster]

If someone is actually saying that, then they need to stop. But I don't think they're saying what you think they are.

 

They're just pointing out that $15/month is the same as about one cup of coffee at starbucks a week. It's more of a comparison to how much money that is.

 

I'm sure there's some people like you who are lucky enough to have a computer they maybe couldn't afford, and can't swing $15 a month. For people like you, there's the F2P system, and that's great because you can get a lot of play time without spending money.

 

Yes the credit cap is a limit, but it's supposed to be a limit, because otherwise those who could afford to pay wouldn't.

 

Fair enough. Thank you for being reasonable about it. As for what you said, I have been told on several occasions to "stop eating out once a week, and you can afford it".

[TX_Angel]

This only really happens when you complain that what you're getting for free isn't good enough.

 

I think it's a valid reaction from those of us that are paying. It IS what separates us from you. You do see that, right?

 

Yep, it gets really annoying when someone keeps complaining about not getting for free what I'm actually paying for.

 

I have a guildie at the moment who is bad about this, I've had a private chat with him, but if he keeps it up, he is going on ignore, and I've never ignored a guild member before.

 

But every day it is another "aww, that is so cool, I want XYZ mount/deco/gear from the CM, can someone buy it for me, I'll pay you back later, I'm pref so I can't afford it".

 

To which I reply, "you can sub and have the credits to buy it", to which he has honestly replied, "I can't afford to sub", to which I replied, "then be thankful you have a free game to play and ignore the shinies, life will be easier for us all".

 

---

 

So my advice to all F2P/preferred... if you see expensive shinies, just ignore them, your life will be easier. Enjoy what is free, use the drops and gear the game gives you in spades, and just pretend the Akk Dog companion doesn't exist, because frankly as a F2P/preferred player, you're never going to get it.

 

What you should NOT do is ***** and complain constantly about not being able to afford them. I wouldn't listen to it in real life either, "aww, I'm poor, I can't afford a Lexus, why can't I have a Lexus, will you buy me one, I'll pay you back later, promise!"

 

That is how pathetic it sounds.

[VanorDM]

I return to my point, without a credit cap, without limits, what reason is there to sub? A few mounts/decos/credits?

 

In theory you could come up with enough perks that the credit limit isn't needed. But it would be hard, but most times it really does involve limiting access to something or another.

 

I'm looking at Wildstar's F2P system now... And it too uses the same concept. You're clearly at least somewhat limited on what you can do in Wildstar if you aren't a subscriber.

[thebobmaster]

One last thing I'll say in terms of the credit cap: I actually wouldn't even mind the credit cap, if it wasn't for the bloody notifications. As soon as you hit 280K credits, you get hit with a notification every time you get credits. It's not just text, either. You know that sound you get when you get mail? Yeah, imagine hearing that every time you loot credits, or finish a quest, or sell something. Oh, and if you sell all your junk items at once? That's one sound per stack. It's like aural hell.

[VanorDM]

It's like aural hell.

 

That does sound like a pain... pun intended.

[TX_Angel]

If in-game money is so important, consider this; The things you buy from the cartel matket using the 500cc's you get a month - how much credits do you earn selling those items on gtn? And also (fun, a bit selfish part but)....how much more would you get if people besides subs would have no credit cap yet still no cc's that you have?

 

I don't use the monthly CC for that, I use them to unlock things in collections.

 

I only have to sub at this point because of the credit cap. I have enough credits in the game to buy every unlock and pass I could ever want off the GTN. The only place CCs are needed are to unlock stuff in collections, but I don't do that all that often either, just once in awhile.

 

But I get what you're saying, you're suggesting the sales of items on the GTN would be better if F2P could buy expensive stuff off the GTN from subs.

 

That is actually a fair point, but it also likely would kick inflation up a notch, because a whole new customer base would open up, raising prices further. But I don't need the money. If I could have no credit cap, I'd unsub tomorrow, I frankly I have all the credits I'll ever need. That is why there is a 10 million credit vehicle for sale on Odessan, for people like me to spend our credits on.

[TX_Angel]

It is just illogical that a person who can afford a net connection and a computer to run the game on would not be able to scrape up $15 for something that is a big enough priority that they make long impassioned posts about. It simply doesn't compute. But hey, I'll allow I don't know people's situations...benefits of the doubt, choice, etc.

 

A lot of these folks who are arguing for more features for free seem to want the game paid for on the back of people who can and do pay for optional visual things. Seen it mentioned quite a bit - and there is already quite a bit of that going on with the cartel market already, not to mention the subscriptions themselves.

 

Those paying customers are already subsidizing a whole lot of free content for folks that "can't afford" $15 a month....but can afford a net connection and a computer to run the game on. And can take the time to play the game. Which, fine.

 

At what point is the content available for free...whether Preferred or otherwise enough?

 

Never. It will never be enough for some folks.

 

But if you make a laundry list of what is available...1-50 on all classes? Free.

 

That is enough no matter what restrictions are put on the game. It is a massive amount of content.

 

^ Long post, but quoted for truth...

[JessieLoverRxE]

One last thing I'll say in terms of the credit cap: I actually wouldn't even mind the credit cap, if it wasn't for the bloody notifications. As soon as you hit 280K credits, you get hit with a notification every time you get credits. It's not just text, either. You know that sound you get when you get mail? Yeah, imagine hearing that every time you loot credits, or finish a quest, or sell something. Oh, and if you sell all your junk items at once? That's one sound per stack. It's like aural hell.

 

Even if i was completley selfish, I'd still remove those pesky credit caps so someone would actually buy the gtn mil worth stuff you get from cartel market only lol. Srsly; are we not going to talk about this?

[TX_Angel]

That's fair enough. As for my own situation, I can't afford either the net connection or the computer. The computer is an old one of my brother-in-law, and the net connection is my family's, who I live with since I can't get a permanent job to move out. I'll allow that there aren't many in my situation, and I agree that the preferred/F2P demanding changes gets to be too much. My entire point is that no one can say for sure why they aren't a sub, or why they can't afford to sub. In my case, pretty much all my money goes straight to gas, or oil, or other essentials.

 

If I was in your shoes, I'd be posting, "Holy crap, thank you so much all you paying customers, helping to support this game so I can play it for free. Whatever limits I have to live with are fine, I'm getting a whole game for free, this is awesome! No complaints here, lets go have fun".

 

And that is ALL that should be said. To which I'd reply, "great no problem, thanks for being grateful for what you have, want to join our group and go do stuff?"

 

There is a 15 year old kid in my guild, his parents won't sub him and he doesn't have a job, so can't pay for it. The computer and net connection are of course his parents. That's fine, he is F2P, no worries. Right up until he says, "aww, I want the new armor set in the CM, it is really cool, will someone buy it for me?".

 

THAT gets REALLY old, really fast...