Lhancelot Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 PTs - AP needs a burst damage nerf. Pyro needs a buff to survivability. Tank PT is fine. Sorcs - Madness needs a damage nerf to their dots and a nerf to their self heals. Healing sorcs need their heals nerfed. Lightning needs higher damage burst on their big hits. Snipers - Virulence needs a damage buff and better defensives (a refresh ability on already existing defensives is crappy btw), Marksman needs better defensives (like virulence), Engineering needs slight buff to burst. Operatives - Concealment needs higher burst, Lethality needs higher burst and easier dot spread mechanic (frontal cone AE that never hits? GG BW!), Healing op needs better burst for emergency healing. Juggernaut - Perfectly fine. Marauder - Perfectly fine. Assassin - Perfectly fine. Mercenary - DPS are perfectly fine. Healer Mercs need better ability to manage focus fire than "Propulsion", buff it so it gets an automatic immunity to leaps/pulls/stuns etc., making a top tier utility option for it that is good for only 4 secs is useless, no merc will ever pick that because there are other options that benefit them more for survival. In essence, Propulsion is useless especially for a healing merc. Chop Chop, get to it BW and add these changes and you will have PVP balanced. You can thank me after completion.
DerSchneider Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 I mostly agree, except one: Snipers don't need defense buff. Yes they may be globaled by stealthers, but they are VERY strong 1v1 if played properly (MMship at least, you're probably right about engi and virulence)
Going Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 PTs - AP needs a burst damage nerf. Pyro needs a buff to survivability. Tank PT is fine. Sorcs - Madness needs a damage nerf to their dots and a nerf to their self heals. Healing sorcs need their heals nerfed. Lightning needs higher damage burst on their big hits. Snipers - Virulence needs a damage buff and better defensives (a refresh ability on already existing defensives is crappy btw), Marksman needs better defensives (like virulence), Engineering needs slight buff to burst. Operatives - Concealment needs higher burst, Lethality needs higher burst and easier dot spread mechanic (frontal cone AE that never hits? GG BW!), Healing op needs better burst for emergency healing. Juggernaut - Perfectly fine. Marauder - Perfectly fine. Assassin - Perfectly fine. Mercenary - DPS are perfectly fine. Healer Mercs need better ability to manage focus fire than "Propulsion", buff it so it gets an automatic immunity to leaps/pulls/stuns etc., making a top tier utility option for it that is good for only 4 secs is useless, no merc will ever pick that because there are other options that benefit them more for survival. In essence, Propulsion is useless especially for a healing merc. Chop Chop, get to it BW and add these changes and you will have PVP balanced. You can thank me after completion. Sorcs are so easy to kill Focus them and boom
Ottoattack Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) PTs - AP needs a burst damage nerf. Pyro needs a buff to survivability. Tank PT is fine. Sorcs - Madness needs a damage nerf to their dots and a nerf to their self heals. Healing sorcs need their heals nerfed. Lightning needs higher damage burst on their big hits. Snipers - Virulence needs a damage buff and better defensives (a refresh ability on already existing defensives is crappy btw), Marksman needs better defensives (like virulence), Engineering needs slight buff to burst. Operatives - Concealment needs higher burst, Lethality needs higher burst and easier dot spread mechanic (frontal cone AE that never hits? GG BW!), Healing op needs better burst for emergency healing. Juggernaut - Perfectly fine. Marauder - Perfectly fine. Assassin - Perfectly fine. Mercenary - DPS are perfectly fine. Healer Mercs need better ability to manage focus fire than "Propulsion", buff it so it gets an automatic immunity to leaps/pulls/stuns etc., making a top tier utility option for it that is good for only 4 secs is useless, no merc will ever pick that because there are other options that benefit them more for survival. In essence, Propulsion is useless especially for a healing merc. Chop Chop, get to it BW and add these changes and you will have PVP balanced. You can thank me after completion. TLDR, majority of what you mentioned is not correct and balance in the current stats is pitiful. PTs, I will pass on AP, cuz people are over shooting the gun, pyro is absolute piece of junk, and survivability is not the only issue. Merc, all three specs are weak. I wont bother getting into the details. It has been beaten to death. As for sorc, if we do all he nerfs you mentioned for madness it would not be even remotely viable. It does need restructure of how it works (similar to 2.10 would be nice). Lightning need more than just burst. The mobility has been killed in 4.0, and the sustained damage is not good either. Healer is definitely out performing, but part of the problem is tied to healers performance more than to sorcs heals in particular. Sins, dps specs are not performing well. Dec has nothing but the troll CC. Hatred is okayish, but if I am looking for a dot spec, I would not choose it. Early to determine for tank, but seems to be out performing on the damage side. Snipers, nothing but MM should even attempt to join a WZ. MM is fine, its just not a great yolo spec. Juggs, veng is definitely not okay. It is currently a dot spec, and a weak one at best. Mara, too only fury is okay. The other 2 specs do not work in PvP. Ops, neither of the dps specs is performing well. They are not terrible but surely not prime. Lethality is very poor. Edited November 8, 2015 by Ottoattack
Kakisback Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) TLDR, majority of what you mentioned is not correct and balance in the current stats is pitiful. PTs, I will pass on AP, cuz people are over shooting the gun, pyro is absolute piece of junk, and survivability is not the only issue. Merc, all three specs are weak. I wont bother getting into the details. It has been beaten to death. As for sorc, if we do all he nerfs you mentioned for madness it would not be even remotely viable. It does need restructure of how it works (similar to 2.10 would be nice). Lightning need more than just burst. The mobility has been killed in 4.0, and the sustained damage is not good either. Healer is definitely out performing, but part of the problem is tied to healers performance more than to sorcs heals in particular. Sins, dps specs are not performing well. Dec has nothing but the troll CC. Hatred is okayish, but if I am looking for a dot spec, I would not choose it. Early to determine for tank, but seems to be out performing on the damage side. Snipers, nothing but MM should even attempt to join a WZ. MM is fine, its just not a great yolo spec. Juggs, veng is definitely not okay. It is currently a dot spec, and a weak one at best. Mara, too only fury is okay. The other 2 specs do not work in PvP. Ops, neither of the dps specs is performing well. They are not terrible but surely not prime. Lethality is very poor. I agree with this mostly. AP really is OP- people are "shooting the gun" for a reason in this case. But yeah, there's of specs where's there's literally no reason to play them. MM is better than virulence in every category, and pve too. AP has better sustain, burst, and survivability than pyro- in 3.X it had more sustain in PVE, but now that's not even the case. I don't understand what they're thinking. They nerfed the surge talents for maras and ops, but kept it for AP and MM? Why do they think this is ok? Edited November 8, 2015 by Kakisback
Lhancelot Posted November 8, 2015 Author Posted November 8, 2015 I agree with this mostly. AP really is OP- people are "shooting the gun" for a reason in this case. But yeah, there's of specs where's there's literally no reason to play them. MM is better than virulence in every category, and pve too. AP has better sustain, burst, and survivability than pyro- in 3.X it had more sustain in PVE, but now that's not even the case. I don't understand what they're thinking. They nerfed the surge talents for maras and ops, but kept it for AP and MM? Why do they think this is ok? Ops seem to be fine. http://www.twitch.tv/mosh47/v/24686202 Marauders? They hit like trucks not sure how they were nerfed, regardless what the nerf to surge supposedly was supposed to do I don't notice any lack of damage on their part and they routinely top dps charts in wzs. I realize everyone's experiences are different so that explains a lot with what one player feels about a class compared to another. But the one poster earlier in this thread made it sound like 90% of the classes were 100% garbage and I feel that's not the case. When someone says the entire class is awful with nothing redeeming about it, I can't help but think the player has L2P issues, because every class has some strength to it. Every class except maybe PT pyro. The problem is some classes ("FOTM") have too many strengths and the weaker ones need some improvements which is what I tried to come up with to make them more fun and viable in PVP.
Technohic Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 Only way the changes you mention for sniper work is if you nerf MM burst. Frankly; I am all for that. Even there, Virulence and Eng need boosts defensively and offensively. Actually; I hate to say "defensively" because that to me sounds specifically like DCDs but I think it could be helped more in recovery.
Master-Nala Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Sorcs - Madness needs a damage nerf to their dots and a nerf to their self heals. Listen, I question the developers' insistence that so much of the damage potential of this class be wrapped up in the DoTs. A better balance between the ST attacks (Demolish, Lightning Strike, Force Leech and Force Lightning) and the DoTs would make more sense in the presence of DoT spread. But you guys can't just nerf the part you don't like without recognizing that the spec has abysmal damage otherwise. Sure Madness can fluff up to extreme total damage, but hell we can't pressure Sorc healers that much worse than anyone else. But you could do something like this: Remove Force Horrors current effects and replace it with: Increases the damage of Force Leech and Lightning Strike by 10%. And add another 10-25% to the Wrath damage boost. Edited November 8, 2015 by Master-Nala
kvandertulip Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Lethality needs higher burst and easier dot spread mechanic (frontal cone AE that never hits? GG BW!) Its not just dot spread that is broken. The damage that the dots do is pitiful. Two expansions in a row the damage has not scaled with the health pool. The Corrosive Assault's damage does not make up for how weak the dots are and how long the set up time is. Lethality needs a dps buff starting with the dots. Snipers - Virulence needs a damage buff and better defensives (a refresh ability on already existing defensives is crappy btw), Marksman needs better defensives (like virulence), Engineering needs slight buff to burst. Sniper defensives are better now than they have been in a long time. That is not really the issue. Virulence has the same problem that Lethality has with the dot damage. With all its damage tied to Cull, it is the most susceptible spec to LOS on top of that. Engineering's damage potential is fine, but they need to fix the stun mechanic on Plasma Probe that has been broken since 3.0. Edited November 8, 2015 by kvandertulip
Ottoattack Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 Listen, I question the developers' insistence that so much of the damage potential of this class be wrapped up in the DoTs. A better balance between the ST attacks (Demolish, Lightning Strike, Force Leech and Force Lightning) and the DoTs would make more sense in the presence of DoT spread. But you guys can't just nerf the part you don't like without recognizing that the spec has abysmal damage otherwise. Sure Madness can fluff up to extreme total damage, but hell we can't pressure Sorc healers that much worse than anyone else. But you could do something like this: Remove Force Horrors current effects and replace it with: Increases the damage of Force Leech and Lightning Strike by 10%. And add another 10-25% to the Wrath damage boost. These are great suggestions. I would probably add for all sorc specs removing resurgence heal and then make force speed base 25 secs (down from 30 sec), so speced it is 20 sec, like it was in 2.0 era.
aristrokratie Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 PTs - AP needs a burst damage nerf. Pyro needs a buff to survivability. Tank PT is fine. Sorcs - Madness needs a damage nerf to their dots and a nerf to their self heals. Healing sorcs need their heals nerfed. Lightning needs higher damage burst on their big hits. Snipers - Virulence needs a damage buff and better defensives (a refresh ability on already existing defensives is crappy btw), Marksman needs better defensives (like virulence), Engineering needs slight buff to burst. Operatives - Concealment needs higher burst, Lethality needs higher burst and easier dot spread mechanic (frontal cone AE that never hits? GG BW!), Healing op needs better burst for emergency healing. Juggernaut - Perfectly fine. Marauder - Perfectly fine. Assassin - Perfectly fine. Mercenary - DPS are perfectly fine. Healer Mercs need better ability to manage focus fire than "Propulsion", buff it so it gets an automatic immunity to leaps/pulls/stuns etc., making a top tier utility option for it that is good for only 4 secs is useless, no merc will ever pick that because there are other options that benefit them more for survival. In essence, Propulsion is useless especially for a healing merc. Chop Chop, get to it BW and add these changes and you will have PVP balanced. You can thank me after completion. be sure to reduce cd on force speed and not nerf self heals for lighning. The spec is so pathetic in terms of burst, since the mobility nerf the survivability is not that great either against melees (exept you always wanna port away and h2f which is not fun)
SplitBolt Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 How about nerf the PT range to 2meters and not allow them to have any passive abilities? Would you all be happy? Or would you still cry nerf even after the fact?
MasterFeign Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 I think, the only thing I'd like for Assassins is a 15 second CD on force run (instead of the 25 or 30 currently). And perhaps a look again at some of the utilities.
Lhancelot Posted November 8, 2015 Author Posted November 8, 2015 How about nerf the PT range to 2meters and not allow them to have any passive abilities? Would you all be happy? Or would you still cry nerf even after the fact? Nah just a nerf to their burst would suffice.
Kakisback Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 Ops seem to be fine. http://www.twitch.tv/mosh47/v/24686202 Marauders? They hit like trucks not sure how they were nerfed, regardless what the nerf to surge supposedly was supposed to do I don't notice any lack of damage on their part and they routinely top dps charts in wzs. I realize everyone's experiences are different so that explains a lot with what one player feels about a class compared to another. But the one poster earlier in this thread made it sound like 90% of the classes were 100% garbage and I feel that's not the case. When someone says the entire class is awful with nothing redeeming about it, I can't help but think the player has L2P issues, because every class has some strength to it. Every class except maybe PT pyro. The problem is some classes ("FOTM") have too many strengths and the weaker ones need some improvements which is what I tried to come up with to make them more fun and viable in PVP. Oh wow, a good player can 1v2 bads in regs. You're right. Ops are not a thing in group ranked. Even mercs are better.
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