PowerReaper Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) You have a spec that revolves (and always has) around using ravage consistently yet it feels horrible to channel as the ability does no damage now and even when it does its still nothing compared to what an AP PT can do in that 3 seconds. You also lack any burst at all and even your sustained damage with barely noticeable dots is lacking. I still manage to pull out 1 mil + daily with vengeance thanks to the dotspread but the fact remains did those dots accomplish anything? Meanwhile an AP PT is doing double my damage in burst, sustain, etc. I recently started playing again and I began noticing my damage in Vengeance was lacking a little but I didn't think much of it at all. However, this changed once I leveled up my PT, Sentinel, and Assassin and realized they all can dish out better more reliable damage in almost every scenario. Healers most of the time ignore me when I'm focusing them on my Juggernaut to the point where it's embarrassing while they're scared as hell if I jump on them with any other one of my characters (especially my PT and Assassin). Edited November 5, 2015 by PowerReaper
GrandLordMenace Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 You have a spec that revolves (and always has) around using ravage consistently yet it feels horrible to channel as the ability does no damage now and even when it does its still nothing compared to what an AP PT can do in that 3 seconds. You also lack any burst at all and even your sustained damage with barely noticeable dots is lacking. I still manage to pull out 1 mil + daily with vengeance thanks to the dotspread but the fact remains did those dots accomplish anything? Meanwhile an AP PT is doing double my damage in burst, sustain, etc. I recently started playing again and I began noticing my damage in Vengeance was lacking a little but I didn't think much of it at all. However, this changed once I leveled up my PT, Sentinel, and Assassin and realized they all can dish out better more reliable damage in almost every scenario. Healers most of the time ignore me when I'm focusing them on my Juggernaut to the point where it's embarrassing while they're scared as hell if I jump on them with any other one of my characters (especially my PT and Assassin). Yes we did get nerfed, our AOE was buffed, and our single target was buffed in some ways, but nerfed far worse in others. PVP wise we're fine, in PVE, no sane person will bring us to actual content.
Sevarn Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Kind of in a wierd place atm really. Our overall damage has never been higher in PvP, dot spread is insane and will put madness sorcerers to shame if the situation allows it. However our single target damage is average and yes we have no burst, trying to nuke a healer down is just embarrassing. Still an amazing class for regs but I have a bad feeling about ranked, think we'll be even worse than last season tbh. Have to wait until season starts to see though. Group ranked is completely out of the question. Still fun to play though.
Alec_Fortescue Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 It needs its % damage buff talent for Master Strike Back and Plasma brand to be unnerfed. Right now in end-game gear it hits for as much as it did in 3.0 number-wise. Very closely, at least.
Tenacity Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Impale/force scream/vicious throw are all still hitting for huge amounts, I didnt realize there was a problem.
Alec_Fortescue Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Impale/force scream/vicious throw are all still hitting for huge amounts, I didnt realize there was a problem. You didn't play other classes yet, did you?
UglyStik Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Honestly not having a problem at all. The only way I don't top DPS as vigi is if I'm playing objectives or not spreading dots effectively. VIgi is bursty as well for me. What augments are you using?
Sevarn Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Honestly not having a problem at all. The only way I don't top DPS as vigi is if I'm playing objectives or not spreading dots effectively. VIgi is bursty as well for me. What augments are you using? Topping damage isn't really the issue, only a good madness sorc will give you competition on the scoreboard. The problem is not regs, we're more than fine there. Problem is ranked, we're still easily focused down and controlled. Our damage comes from dotspread and that can be easily denied in ranked. We have no burst, it really is pitiful compared to some classes right now. I think with a buff to master strike and some damage back on plasmabrand, we'll be a bit better off but still bottom of the barrel (next to mercs) for ranked. We'll see once season starts. Edited November 6, 2015 by Sevarn
xMaranathax Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Isn't Vigi the sustained dps spec, Focus the burst spec? If this is true, why would Vigi need/want burst? If you want burst, roll focus. Not comparing to other classes atm. Class balance is really out of whack due to the new combat system, toons not being fully geared/leveled, and other things. Balance will come in time (I hope). Regardless, Vigilance 3.x was not the true Vigilance. Finally, in 4.0, I feel like Juggs/Guards are back to what they SHOULD be. This is my opinion. Your welcome to yours as well.
Alec_Fortescue Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 , why would Vigi need/want burst? If you want burst, roll focus. Because it's impossibru to kill a non-kiting good healer in pvp with uninterrupted, sustained damage dealing...
GrandLordMenace Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Because it's impossibru to kill a non-kiting good healer in pvp with uninterrupted, sustained damage dealing... Yeah you haven't found pain until you've been outhealed 20 minutes straight by a sorc healer while doing 6k single target dps, that is literal pain.
Alec_Fortescue Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Yeah you haven't found pain until you've been outhealed 20 minutes straight by a sorc healer while doing 6k single target dps, that is literal pain. Dude, perfect rotation, zero interruptions... Guy just stands still and outheals everything. Btw Rydarus,Pooled Hatred is broken. It consumes damage stacks with Shatter / PB dots hence Vigi / Vengeance dps is MASSIVELY impaired. Edited November 6, 2015 by Alec_Fortescue
Cuiwe Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) You have a spec that revolves (and always has) around using ravage consistently yet it feels horrible to channel as the ability does no damage now and even when it does its still nothing compared to what an AP PT can do in that 3 seconds. You also lack any burst at all and even your sustained damage with barely noticeable dots is lacking. I still manage to pull out 1 mil + daily with vengeance thanks to the dotspread but the fact remains did those dots accomplish anything? Meanwhile an AP PT is doing double my damage in burst, sustain, etc. I recently started playing again and I began noticing my damage in Vengeance was lacking a little but I didn't think much of it at all. However, this changed once I leveled up my PT, Sentinel, and Assassin and realized they all can dish out better more reliable damage in almost every scenario. Healers most of the time ignore me when I'm focusing them on my Juggernaut to the point where it's embarrassing while they're scared as hell if I jump on them with any other one of my characters (especially my PT and Assassin). Yes, yes it has. See, Ravage used to get +20% dmg from Ravager. Now it gets only +5%(!). This is a BIG nerf seeing how Ravage gives at least 40% of dps of Vengeance. So, if Ravage gives 40% dps, that is 6% overall dps nerf. So if Vengeance had 4500 dps pre 4,0, now it 'll have ~4200dps. edit: is this about PvP? Edited November 6, 2015 by Cuiwe
AllyParker Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Yeah you haven't found pain until you've been outhealed 20 minutes straight by a sorc healer while doing 6k single target dps, that is literal pain. Add in a tank or crosshealing and it feels totally hopeless.
GrandLordMenace Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Yes, yes it has. See, Ravage used to get +20% dmg from Ravager. Now it gets only +5%(!). This is a BIG nerf seeing how Ravage gives at least 40% of dps of Vengeance. So, if Ravage gives 40% dps, that is 6% overall dps nerf. So if Vengeance had 4500 dps pre 4,0, now it 'll have ~4200dps. edit: is this about PvP? It never gave quite that much, right now it only gives 20%. At Ravage's height it was 30% of all damage dealt. And I was under the impression this convo was about PVP, but my reply to you was as if you were talking about PVE. Ravage matters even less as a PVPer. Edited November 7, 2015 by GrandLordMenace
Cuiwe Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 It never gave quite that much, right now it only gives 20%. At Ravage's height it was 30% of all damage dealt. And I was under the impression this convo was about PVP, but my reply to you was as if you were talking about PVE. Ravage matters even less as a PVPer. Oh I knew it was a lot, but wasn't actually certain of the number associated with it. Still, I feel that a huge focus on it in 3,x days was good-it perfectly exemplified what Vigilance should be: a hybrid DoT / DD discipline. But that could well be my own belief-maybe the facts and the logic speaks otherwise.
GrandLordMenace Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 Oh I knew it was a lot, but wasn't actually certain of the number associated with it. Still, I feel that a huge focus on it in 3,x days was good-it perfectly exemplified what Vigilance should be: a hybrid DoT / DD discipline. But that could well be my own belief-maybe the facts and the logic speaks otherwise. It was that in PVE at least and it was viable, maybe not best, but it was viable and could pull the numbers, in 4.0? Yeah no...
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