DarthTyranid Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Cause I feel like Zakuul isn't worse than the Sith Empire. Like they don't do nearly as evil things and don't treat conquered worlds that bad. They make planets pay taxes. No enslavement, no medical experimentation, no mass executions. They seem pretty cool. So why does everyone hate them more than the Sith Empire to the point they would work with the Sith Empire to get rid of them. All that stuff Vaylin does that everyone says is so bad? That was every tuesday for my Sith Warrior. I just don't get the why of this whole story.
BlazeTomahawk Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 You said I right there! TAXES Everybody hates taxes. But seriously, governments often team up with others they don't like to take on the big bully. USA and USSR in ww2, for example. At the time it wasn't known what crazy **** the Nazis were up to, but 2 enemies put aside their differences to prevent a 3rd side from growing too powerful
Uruare Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) Because Luke has to save the Jedi and Republic in 3500-ish years, of course. Think of it this way - just because everyone's fighting against something doesn't mean they logically should be. It's very possible that the Eternal Empire us just damn better than everything that's ever happened yet. We're gonna destroy it because it wasn't our idea and we're playing characters that are, per the narratives at least, just as dumb and absent of Big-picture reasoning ability as most of the rest of the npc's. They're trying to force hygiene and things on us. They're gonna take your guns and make you vaccinate your kids! THEY. MUST. DIE! Edited November 5, 2015 by Uruare
hadoken Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I don't think the Empire had Star Fortresses. Remember the Bothans!
BrianDavion Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 the taxes are described as damn near criplling.
BlazeTomahawk Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I picture it like the economic sanction that were placed on Cuba. It's destroying trade and really making life hard on most planets. Alderrann and Corellia might do ok, but without outside help The people of Tatooine are doomed
StarMagus Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Zakuul is worse because when the player went after them to start with, the Emp was in charge and he ate an entire world full of people. After that It was sort of a revenge, thing for locking him up in carbonite and not liking their style of govt vs what they had. If you're evil a system where you're in charge but just as evil is better. If you are good, compared to the republic they are really bad.
Derfburger Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I kinda thought the same thing playing through on my JK. Granted Lana is a moderate Sith and of the type to be more reasonable and work for the greater good. But overall the Sith Empire and Sith in general have thus far proven to be much more sadistic, genocidal, cruel, and xenophobic than the Zakuul Empire. Also as I do work on taking my second light side character through KotFE I can't help but to think if I am a dark side Emperor's Wrath or Dark Council member I would not be looking to destroy the Zakuul Empire. I would recognize it as superior to the Sith Empire and the Republic and be working towards getting Arcaan off MY throne and seeing if perhaps Vaylin can be leashed, muzzled ,and trained obedience (if not then see follows Arcaan out the airlock).
Canareth Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) I see the "Alliance" as those individuals with a particular problem with Zakuul. The Imps hate them of course (Korriban, killed Marr, general principle etc.) but Republic government is stated to be incompetent. So all malcontent Republic troops...join up with the Imperials. Your Alliance is clearly scranbling for resources. The Jedi look like they got flattened; we've yet to see one we know besides Satele and she is in exile. The most visible Jedi in the enclave is a young teenage girl who seems to be training with a human Sith friend/boyfriend. [Cue fanfic] So you might well be a small minority viewpoint. Zakuul itself is a post-Singularity utopia where 99%+ of people live in luxury. Their work and wars are done with droids. It is a higher standard of living than Coruscant ever obtained, let alone how uniform it is. If that is what Valkorion actually wants galaxy wide, it is silly to be fighting them, let alone siding with Sith to do so. However...Arcann and Vaylin have respectively lost their mind and never had one. The Star Fortresses are occasionally used for Sith-like behavior; this is entirely at Arcann and Vaylin's discretion. There is reason to believe there will be a second stage here and no one will like it. Edited November 5, 2015 by Canareth
Djiini Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I mean, if Valkorion is telling the truth about letting my character take the Eternal Throne, I'm damn well going to do that.
MaximusRex Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Zakuul isn't worse than the Sith Empire, but nor do they need to be. Maybe you haven't completed the story yet, but everyone doesn't hate Zakuul, but there isn't much love for them either. The Republic isn't a fan because they didn't want to be a subservient state to the Sith, they aren't going to be interested in staying subservient to Zakuul. The Sith Empire's whole point of being is to rule the Galaxy, Zakuul is a road block to that. Neither are especially focused on Zakuul right now because they are mostly leaving the Pubs and Imps alone. The Republic and Empire are still mostly at each other's throats while the Outlander pulls an alliance together to deal with Arcann.
SithKoriandr Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Zakuul is great...for those on Zakuul proper. It's already shown they have their own down-trodden people. Koth himself was likely in one of those great parts of the empire. A civilization is often great for those on the nice side of it, and there's always a terrible side to every civilization. Sith Empire has a lot of it, with no real great part except for those who are powerful Sith or a Moff. Republic forgoes that one really great spot with lots of middle ground.
Infernixx Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 The Eternal Empire isn't evil. Nor is it good. That Empire is best defined as 'dominant.' Arcann has the Eternal Empire suppressing both Republic and Sith Empire and gathering an obscene amount of resources. Enough resources to utterly strangle all economic activity in both vast entities. It's almost as if he has a reason and purpose for all those resources. The resources of two huge Empires 'and' undoubtedly the resources of the Eternal Empire as well. Which makes you wonder what that reason and purpose is.
enderthane Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Zakuul is worse than the Sith Empire because reasons. But seriously, it is not that it is worse, per se; it is more that it is bad. You get to see all the good stuff, but there is bad right under the surface. I see Zakuul as just like Palpatines Galactic Empire. It is great if you are on the right side of it (Palpatine's good side was humans and human culture), and you never see the bad from that side; That is until you speak out against it. Then you are screwed. If you are any thing but human, you are a second class citizen at best. Slavery and oppression are the rule of the day. This is seen in Zakuul in the Old World, as they are ruled over by a bunch of evil guys who were put in charge by the guys in charge. Palpatine ruled with fear, through the Tarkin Doctrine. Zakuul has their fleet and uses it to oppress everyone and keep them in line. There is more, but these are the biggest ones. The thing is, Zakuul seems all nice, but they are bad under that pleasant exterior. The (current) Sith Empire is really honest about their oppression, and do not hide it; Zakuul lies about being nice, and hides it's oppression.
Lord_Iurus Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 They're different from us. That makes them evil. That's the point of view I've gone at so far...while playing from the point of view of a character that is admittedly as evil as Vitiate.
QuevvenXiltyn Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Arcann did promise that the Core Worlds would burn... And I don't think he was being figurative...
jonathonpatches Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Not to come to the defence of the Sith Empire... but wasn't Koth ordered to slaughter a bunch of innocent Civillians by Zakuul? Isn't that why he abandoned them and Senya was ordered to hunt him as a traitor? Plus, there is that whole Generator incident slaughtering many innocents to kill one person, the fact they let a crazy cult run a district as their own... Not saying that Zakuul is worse than the Empire, but a strong case can be made for them being just as bad in our limited exposure to them.
DrewFromPhilly Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Because making one common enemy and having the republic and empire join forces (again) is easier than making two separate stories - and they went down the easy road. This is the only reason.
myrdinn Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 They are... neutral. I mean, look at them. Heck, they mostly refuse to color code themselves by lightsaber color, for xaxt's sake. Setting there, all... *neutral* and stuff. Can't trust them. I mean, there they are. Right there. *Fhooom* Huh. Turns out their killbots don't have preset kill limits. Uh. We've lots waves and waves of our own men. Huh. (five more years of this later) Look at them. And, we have to pay taxes for those oppressive killbots to oppress us!!!
Morrolan Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Cause I feel like Zakuul isn't worse than the Sith Empire. Like they don't do nearly as evil things and don't treat conquered worlds that bad. They make planets pay taxes. No enslavement, no medical experimentation, no mass executions. They seem pretty cool. So why does everyone hate them more than the Sith Empire to the point they would work with the Sith Empire to get rid of them. Cause the republic and empire are still vassal states even though zakuul only charges taxes and lets them govern themselves. Zakuul is better than the empire but they still restrict freedoms.
SerraShar Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Most knight we meet seem like zealot , and you can't reason with them . And seem like everyone been brainwashed in a cult . The Sith maybe worse but at least it's clear who is the Tyrant . Here everyone believe a Tyrant is Jesus.... I rather die knowing then die for a lie
StarMagus Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 The Eternal Empire isn't evil. Nor is it good. That Empire is best defined as 'dominant.' Arcann has the Eternal Empire suppressing both Republic and Sith Empire and gathering an obscene amount of resources. Enough resources to utterly strangle all economic activity in both vast entities. It's almost as if he has a reason and purpose for all those resources. The resources of two huge Empires 'and' undoubtedly the resources of the Eternal Empire as well. Which makes you wonder what that reason and purpose is. It's pretty evil, I mean part of it's plan is to cause the houses on Alderan to fight each other to the death so it can film it and beam it back for it's citizens to watch as entertainment. That's basically dog fighting for the masses, just with people.
Cavadus Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) I'll be honest... From an objective respective, regardless of who Valkorian is or isn't, an agent of the Galactic Republic or the Sith Empire, along with Darth Marr, attacks the Eternal Empire completely unprovoked and then said agent, if going light side in the throne room, straight up assassinates the emperor in cold blood. An emperor who, by all accounts, was beloved and benevolent. Ummm, sorry but the Republic and Sith Empire are the aggressors here. And wrongly so, might I add. They traveled to a foreign nation and assassinated their highest office holder, their princeps civitatis. It's actually super ****ed up about how WRONG the player is No matter how one equivocates it this was unjustified aggression. And to top it all off we put a lunatic on the throne who has made life worse for EVERYONE in the galaxy. And again, objectively, the Zakuul Empire appears to be more stable, more wealthy, have a higher living standard, and citizens appear to enjoy more personal liberty than those in the Republic or Sith Empire. Why am I fighting for the Republic or Sith Empire again? Edited November 10, 2015 by Cavadus
hadoken Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 I'll be honest... From an objective respective, regardless of who Valkorian is or isn't, an agent of the Galactic Republic or the Sith Empire, along with Darth Marr, attacks the Eternal Empire completely unprovoked and then said agent, if going light side in the throne room, straight up assassinates the emperor in cold blood. An emperor who, by all accounts, was beloved and benevolent. Ummm, sorry but the Republic and Sith Empire are the aggressors here. And wrongly so, might I add. They traveled to a foreign nation and assassinated their highest office holder, their princeps civitatis. It's actually super ****ed up about how WRONG the player is No matter how one equivocates it this was unjustified aggression. And to top it all off we put a lunatic on the throne who has made life worse for EVERYONE in the galaxy. I must have missed when the Eternal Empire was actually attacked prior to the destruction of the Imperial/Alliance fleet that resulted in the capture of Darth Marr. The only aggressors to that point had been the Eternal Empire itself. We didn't even get a chance to blow up a little probe.
Cavadus Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) I must have missed when the Eternal Empire was actually attacked prior to the destruction of the Imperial/Alliance fleet that resulted in the capture of Darth Marr. The only aggressors to that point had been the Eternal Empire itself. We didn't even get a chance to blow up a little probe. At that point Marr had entered Zakuulian space with a fleet of warships. What would the U.S. do if all of the sudden China showed up on the Atlantic coast with a fleet? What would China do in the reverse? Just showing up like that is an act of aggression. It's not like a peaceful fleet just showed up. Marr's fleet had (very) aggressive intent. Edited November 10, 2015 by Cavadus
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