Galdren Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 So, let me preface this and say that ive been mmo gaming for almost 15 years. I pvp in every game i play, pretty extensively. I have a tendency to love underpowered classes, mostly because ive come to learn that in most cases, they have a much higher learning curve and take some skill to play. In almost all cases, with some dedication i could take any underpowered class and make them competitive. Never top of the class, as it were, but played well enough that it definitely was not something to be ignored. Generally, i adore pvp. PvP is in almost all games, the central thing i base my time around, once ive hit end game. But not in this case. Its simply not a possibility. At this juncture ive played most versions of the classes, and invested heavily trying to learn the different specs, abilities. Jug, Sorc, Op, Merc, with time invested in healing, dps, and tank specs to get a good feel. Ive spent weeks of play time, millions (probably billions) of credits, hundreds of dollars, and hours of my time tweaking my characters after extensive reading of posts, websites dedicated to SWTOR pvp, and asking in game advice. Ive been using both PVE and then PVP set ups just to taste the difference. You know what my ultimate conclusion is? There is too much wrong with SWTOR PVP to make it fun. In fact, there is so much wrong with PVP that i absolutely loath pvp in SWTOR. There are classes that you could literally pound your face into a keyboard with green gear and faceroll pvp geared opponents. There are classes that at the highest tier (unranked) pvp gear can barely kill others, but only after using all cooldowns, god forbid anything else comes by, because you can't even run away. Entire classes are so pvp screwed up that without a singular ability they are otherwise useless, and can be generally ignored. The single thing that just....burns me so bad, is the CC is so unevenly metered out, and done in such terrible way, that there is no "escape" unless you have stealth abilities, and even then, there are classes that can chase you down and face roll you. Frankly, there are class specs that no matter the tweaking, the buffs, the stims, med packs, gear, or pure dedication to learning the class are ever viable other than pure kill fodder for everything else. There are class specs so vastly terrible that i had a hard time believing they could be that bad. Even mediocre classes are so vastly destroyed compared to the FOTM classes that it's nigh on pointless to play in ANYTHING other than a PREMADE. In 15 years of gaming, i have never felt more frustrated, more cheated, than at this time. I have never seen a game that is this far past release with such abysmal PVP balance, terrible Dev Response about PVP, and utter lack of attention to such a HUGE section of MMO customer base. There are a million and one posts screaming about Nerf everything but their own favorite class. And i can understand. But, then everyone screams about PVE balance and how nerf this nerf that and you'd kill the PVE part of that class. That's a copout, and a poor excuse for pure laziness and a continuing dismal and insulting disregard for what seems to be (or should be) a huge part of the game. Let me be clear, im not espousing any singular FOTM nerfing, buffing, or LTP kind of talk about any singular class. Because they ALL need a HUGE pvp revamp. The classes AS THEY ARE, are so mismatched, over and under balanced as to be purely cringe worthy, from any one trying to evaluate the PVP part of the game. Whats even more crazy is that there are so many solutions to the problem im astonished someone in the deve team hasn't already put one into place. Multiple games (who i will not name here) have implemented PVP only usages to skills in the game. Adding, subtracting, altering, the way the skill works ONLY when used versus another player. Let's not pretend in a game, in this day in age, and at this point in mmo development, that such a "in the background" kind of coding could not be implemented. Im sure we as a player base could point our fingers to a dozen other examples that could easily aid in fixing the embarrassment that is PVP in SWTOR. And maybe at some point the Devs will actually stop and listen to us, but i t think, at least for me, that will be far to long, and far to late. I love the story of SWTOR, i love the game mechanics, i love the SH, the worlds, the abilities, i love this game, but for me, after playing Ops through, or Smugg through for the second, or third time....and my new found hate (at least in SWTOR) of pvp and how end game now forces me to pvp for companions.....yeah, ill have left before it's fixed. I think, if the devs actually read this, and dont toss it aside as just another rant, is this simple thing. i spent MONTHS trying to love PVP, trying any number of classes and combinations. Casual players, even hardcore PVPers, WONT spend that much time searching for the right class to play. PVP is a huge leaking sieve for SWTOR and unless its fixed, there's a huge population of gamers that will come in, do KOTFE (cause, ooh shiney) and then leave because there is nothing there to keep them.
runar_smugler Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 I agree that swtor needs a stong pvp and pve content:) Right now the pvp content is a bit lackluster..maybe add more BG's?....and keep on balancing classes. And...GIVE base level pvp gear to everyone! AND.....add an option to change from pvp gear to pve gear with 1 button click...LIKE ALL other games have! AND also....change the traits in the same manner....1 click....atm I trait for pve....cause thats the important thing for me...meaning..i run into pvp with pve gear and pve traits..just because of the hassle of changing it up everytime i want to do a little BG..
Lundorff Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 You are not wrong, but nothing will come of it. You have to find you own fun. That's it. Don't even expect something to change for the better. This game will always be utterly unbalanced and it will frustrate you if you let it. I have discovered that I really enjoy playing lowbies/midbies and creating new characters. I like to find fun and unique names (Like Hulk, Fun, Mother, Allah, Hitman etc.) and create a persona for the character even in PVP.
Chiefmckenzie Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 I could not agree more, the p remade rubbish has started again, with ranked geared players screwing over under geared players with no chance of getting near them, 4 pvp players against 1 ranked gear and there is no way you can beat him, its a joke and seems swtor has not changed and i will be leaving again soon, its rubbish not fair no scaling at 65 at all and ranked players are free to screw over new players making them feel its not even worth gearing up, because even when you do reach al you can get from vendor you have to be certain level to get next level of gear, and with everyone leveling its a joke, I know swtor don't care because i have read the forums and have seen no reply or hint of advice to this, if you are new tot he game for get pvp, you will be wasting your time at 65 - don't get me wrong pre 65 you will have a blast fair and fun, but getting in a pvp when you can see after 2 hours of getting stomped on like *****es you will realize if there is not enough for ranked match they use us as fodder , nice job guys, l PS:::: waited for weeks for this patch, and leveled to 65 in 2 hours, FANTASTIC waist of time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sevarn Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 If only the devs would care.......... And that is the problem really, they don't. They really don't. I mean, take WOW for example, their have been some balance changes there that would lead you to think the devs are incompetent sometimes, but at least they try. How long have mercs sucked now? How long has pt burst been overpowered? Sorcerers over performing for last 2 seasons, they get buffed! I could go on. Then there's actual PvP content.......oh wait, there's not. Nope nothing new. Possibility of a new wz but I won't hold my breath. And finally, the small things. Like not even showing a preview of the ranked weapon rewards, at all. This goes beyond lazy and into we don't give a crap about the PvP community. My biggest issue is that the balance changes are actually really easy to fix and yet nothing is done. I have a lot more to say on these issues bit I'm not going too, its already been said multiple times by many people and it falls on deaf ears every time. New expansion, chance to fix the issues, and they didn't. In fact they made it worse tbh. Pretty much sums it up really. They're really Lucky its a star wars game, otherwise it would be dead.
JouerTue Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 reroll fotm and farm comms in a premade, you can gear all your alts and gain decently the companions needed. but i heard that with valor 40 you don't need the 20 wz..valor 40 you can reach it at like level 40 in the more newbie friendly habitat that are midbies.
Lundorff Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 I could not agree more, the p remade rubbish has started again, with ranked geared players screwing over under geared players with no chance of getting near them, 4 pvp players against 1 ranked gear and there is no way you can beat him, its a joke and seems swtor has not changed and i will be leaving again soon, its rubbish not fair no scaling at 65 at all and ranked players are free to screw over new players making them feel its not even worth gearing up, because even when you do reach al you can get from vendor you have to be certain level to get next level of gear, and with everyone leveling its a joke, I know swtor don't care because i have read the forums and have seen no reply or hint of advice to this, if you are new tot he game for get pvp, you will be wasting your time at 65 - don't get me wrong pre 65 you will have a blast fair and fun, but getting in a pvp when you can see after 2 hours of getting stomped on like *****es you will realize if there is not enough for ranked match they use us as fodder , nice job guys, l PS:::: waited for weeks for this patch, and leveled to 65 in 2 hours, FANTASTIC waist of time !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gear is possible the smallest problem currently facing PVP. You can very easily gather enough comms between 60 - 64 to buy the very best PVP gear once you hit 65. You still need to augment it and remember to use stims, but gear is not a problem if you are even slightly interested in PVP. (Interested in PVP =/= people who queue for the first time at level 65 and wears high level PVE gear. Sorry, but even PVP requires a minimum of preparation.)
Chiefmckenzie Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Gear is possible the smallest problem currently facing PVP. You can very easily gather enough comms between 60 - 64 to buy the very best PVP gear once you hit 65. You still need to augment it and remember to use stims, but gear is not a problem if you are even slightly interested in PVP. (Interested in PVP =/= people who queue for the first time at level 65 and wears high level PVE gear. Sorry, but even PVP requires a minimum of preparation.) Sure thats not what I am saying nothing about gear, its more about Pre mades smashing low level pvp players, because there no fun in going into a pvp battle knowing you "are" most likely to loose because of ranked players allowed to have stat increases that out-way the run of the mill pvp gear from the vendor, and as the quote mentioned above "join pre-made and gear all your alts" that is the mentality we are facing today, its not about being good player if you are up against vent and pre-made you loose! end of story. and believe me in greens you last 2 min at 65, so yes its easy to gear i agreee with you but did you enjoy playing pre 65, yes, why its was considered "fair" but at 65 its like if there is no raked match then they welcome to screw over the lobbies just entering and after 20 - 25 bgs you start to loose interest in playing pvp.
hungryewok Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 The gear gap in swtor right now is nowhere close to what it was in WoW back in the early seasons - you had to grind bgs for weeks to have some starting gear and then have high enough ranked rating to get BiS gear. It took a lot of time. In ToR you need around 8k (4k for 204, and 4k for 6 pieces of 208 that cannot be made adaptive) comms and 2-3 mil credits to get quite competitve gear. Its a very low entry point. Class balance is bad - that is the common issue with pvp. Totally unrelated question: what do you need to have, except gear and datacrons to min/max your stats?
svensteen Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 . They're really Lucky its a star wars game, otherwise it would be dead. This.
DeltaGun Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Is there an MMO with good PvP? Serious question. WoW PvP had it's moments. Other MMOs I've played never came anywhere close to something that could be considered competitive or balanced (Even DAOC had completely useless classes)
Skallagar Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Seriously, I love SWTOR PvP better than all but when AoC had numbers.
hungryewok Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Seriously, I love SWTOR PvP better than all but when AoC had numbers. Warhammer online had the best PvP I've seen to date. It had scale and castle sieges, it was fun. Guild Wars 2 had good pvp when I was playing it at launch. I'm considering to give it a try soon-ish
sithBracer Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Their problems with balance all come down to one thing: their "combat team" is 1 person who is probably sending resumes out to other companies as we write this.
JouerTue Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Is there an MMO with good PvP? Serious question. WoW PvP had it's moments. Other MMOs I've played never came anywhere close to something that could be considered competitive or balanced (Even DAOC had completely useless classes) /Dayz
Skallagar Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Warhammer online had the best PvP I've seen to date. It had scale and castle sieges, it was fun. Guild Wars 2 had good pvp when I was playing it at launch. I'm considering to give it a try soon-ish It had its moments, but class balance was way worse than most. Furthermore the spacial based blocking had so much potential but didn't hold up. Edited November 4, 2015 by Skallagar
Anishor Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Is there an MMO with good PvP? Serious question. WoW PvP had it's moments. Other MMOs I've played never came anywhere close to something that could be considered competitive or balanced (Even DAOC had completely useless classes) I would say AoC's was pretty good, though last I played it was right before launch of SWTOR so I have no idea of its state, I know its numbers are down a lot. Also SWG had the best PVP experience in space =D
Vember Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 I dunno, every time I play pvp in another mmo, I always end up back here doing pvp. I realize that I actually miss SWTOR pvp when I do it in other games.
DirtyDiggler Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Its not gear, its pre-mades. Pre-mades will always smash randoms because they can coordinate all their attacks. They are able to switch targets, focusing down targets with ease and thus can win battles undermanned because they are focusing targets. It also helps when you arrange your pre-made so that you have the best class comp to work together. You got Powertechs on crack using their speed buff with other speed buffs to make them fly around the map and pimpslap the other team with their OP damage. Edited November 4, 2015 by DirtyDiggler
Alericus Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 STAY ON TARGET..OP said nothing about premades and honestly Ive played with enough crappy premades on my team to agree its the class balance, it sucks. When you see 5 guys slamming on one player and his health has gone done 5% you know there's a problem. So Bioware, I know you have no problem redesigning the game, you did it for PVE for KOTFE now please consider it for PvP. As the man said, "Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy"
Nietzs Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Disagree with the OP. SWTOR classes are just as balanced as any mmo I've ever played and I've pvp'ed competetively in many (DAoC, WOW, GW2, and now SWTOR). I don't feel that the game is as unbalanced as the people complaining on the forums would indicate. Every class has a viable dps spec for regs and almost all classes can compete in solo ranked from what I've seen with a good enough player behind the keyboard. Of course there is some imbalance, but it is no where near what some people are making it out to be. If you are expecting that every spec and every class be equally balanced and viable in pvp, then you haven't been paying attention in your 15 years of mmo gaming because this has never been the case in the mmo's I've played. It is enough for me that each class has at least 1 spec that is viable in pvp, and they pretty much do. I've heard that some classes such as marauder don't make the cut for cookie cutter team ranked groups (people are still doing 8 man team ranked?). Yet I still see lots of marauders/sentinels in regs and solo ranked putting up good numbers. Edited November 4, 2015 by Nietzs
Giberelina Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) I think, if the devs actually read this, and dont toss it aside as just another rant, is this simple thing. . Devs don't read the pvp page, they don't even know they have pvp in their game. Edited November 4, 2015 by Giberelina
Veronyka Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Multiple games (who i will not name here) have implemented PVP only usages to skills in the game. Adding, subtracting, altering, the way the skill works ONLY when used versus another player. Let's not pretend in a game, in this day in age, and at this point in mmo development, that such a "in the background" kind of coding could not be implemented. I've often wondered this myself. I have played other games that do this too. I think I'm right in saying that the consular/inquisitor whirlwind skill has different effects on other players so it can be done.
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