A Few Kolto Stations Does Not Make All Flashpoints Role Neutral.

[GrayGerie]

Tacticals are brtual. I have 216/220 tank, fully auged, and qued today for Battle for Ilum. I had 3 level 18 dps(Sorc, mara and Merc). I took some serious beating, I never came close to dying, but sure as hell, they got me to 30% range, and that's with 2300 def, 1500 shield and 1000 absorb and 79k HP. On last boss, when he dissapeares ,and shows up again, and he two shotted level 18's. Honestly, if I wasn't there too sponge stuff, I doubt these guys would ever finish anything.

 

And that's with them using Kolto stations trying to stay fully healed and me tanking entire fight. Just shows how weird that scaling is. He got me barely to 98%, whereas he literally twoshotted those poor 18's. Yeah, yeah, I'm a tank, Ion gas and all, heavy armor, but he still shouldn't two shot them.

 

Bolster my ***.

[WulframH]

I don't find healers that useful in most tacticals. The Kolto thingies make them redundant in most boss fights, though they do help avoid the odd death outside of them.

 

All melee DPS can be a pain, particularly if the healing stations are inconveniently situated. Or if the ranged DPS aren't inclined to keep an eye on the heals.

 

Though the balance is a bit all over the place. I was just doing Directive 7 and it was really pretty easy despite some rather erratic and low level players, while other FPs are a real pain

Edited November 22, 2015 by WulframH

[Draqsko]

On last boss, when he dissapeares ,and shows up again, and he two shotted level 18's.

 

Interrupt his 2 channeled attacks and that doesn't happen. You will need to have help though, they will come faster than your interrupt comes off cooldown. With that fight there, you won't need much healing if you can keep him interrupted.

[CaptRogue]

I'd put Maelstrom Prison in with that as well, at least for Kilran. His snipe is brutal right now, if you aren't close to full hp it'll kill you, never mind that he now rolls back and start sniping as soon as you finish the conversation with him.

 

Yeah I'll agree with this.

BEFORE the companion nerf, we couldn't do it 3 65s w a companion out. (Dude left mid run. Can't remember why.)

2 DPS & 1 healer, with DPS companion or tank.

We finally called it on last boss. We had wiped so many times.

 

Definitely NEEDS a nerf or left as non Tact.

[Holocron]

They added the kolto stations because of lazy design, rather than taking the effort to create true role agnostic flash points.

[branmakmuffin]

I don't find healers that useful in most tacticals. The Kolto thingies make them redundant in most boss fights, though they do help avoid the odd death outside of them.

 

All melee DPS can be a pain, particularly if the healing stations are inconveniently situated. Or if the ranged DPS aren't inclined to keep an eye on the heals.

This is my big beef. If I'm on a tank or a melee DPS, it's silly that I have to run over to a kolto, sometimes a kolto with a Sniper camped on it and never using it (a vote-kick worthy action, IMO)

 

Though the balance is a bit all over the place. I was just doing Directive 7 and it was really pretty easy despite some rather erratic and low level players, while other FPs are a real pain

Yes, there is a definite gap between the easy and the hard in tacticals, which is also true of HMs.

[mrsrachelm]

The Tacticals as they are now are just dividing the community even more than it already is. Those of us who are higher level and thus have the number of skills (as in those granted by level not meaning the L2P hype) are able to play easily in many of them with others of similar level. Lower level characters do not have the number of level-granted skills for their rotation and even with bolster are unable to contribute to the group well. THIS IS NOT THEIR FAULT by any means. However, as soon as tacticals pop and we all get in there, it's amazing how many higher levels will immediately bail out once they see the level of their fellow players. Or, they start moaning in group chat and ripping the lower level players a new one for something that is totally not their fault. Now we have the insta-60's who do not know their class and the rotations etc even on the most basic level thrown into the mix.

 

Between this, the companion nerf debacle, and the usual players who seem to love to stroke their e-peen at the expense of their fellow gamers the community is a toxic cesspool. That hurts the game as much as the bugs and the rest of what's currently going on. Although I have level 65's in every class but BH (never got into BH) and "know my class" etc, I have next to zero desire to group with anyone for anything for the above reasons. Add to those the incessant "rush rush rush, skip everything we possibly can, "spacebar or we kick you" crap that is so prevalent and yeah....who wants to put themselves into that situation.

 

The community, as much as the bugs, etc, are bleeding the joy out of this game.

Edited November 22, 2015 by mrsrachelm

[Meraxos]

Hence the title, it seems Bioware thinks a few kolto stations at the midboss fights means that flashpoints are suddenly all role neutral. No, that's not the case. Flashpoints are suddenly missing the required roles to even make it to the midbosses. Plus, you're sticking low-level players into complex flashpoints where they don't know their classes or have enough of a rotation to survive the battle. I don't care if everyone is bolstered to level 65; flashpoints have become hair-pullingly aggravating and tend to end in a quitting team.

 

Fix it back to the way it was, not all flashpoints were created equal.

They do all that because there are not enough people playing who want to do flashpoints at all. Making them role neutral and level synced buys them time even if it doesn't really work.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Meraxos

[Meraxos]

The Tacticals as they are now are just dividing the community even more than it already is. Those of us who are higher level and thus have the number of skills (as in those granted by level not meaning the L2P hype) are able to play easily in many of them with others of similar level. Lower level characters do not have the number of level-granted skills for their rotation and even with bolster are unable to contribute to the group well. THIS IS NOT THEIR FAULT by any means. However, as soon as tacticals pop and we all get in there, it's amazing how many higher levels will immediately bail out once they see the level of their fellow players. Or, they start moaning in group chat and ripping the lower level players a new one for something that is totally not their fault. Now we have the insta-60's who do not know their class and the rotations etc even on the most basic level thrown into the mix.

 

Between this, the companion nerf debacle, and the usual players who seem to love to stroke their e-peen at the expense of their fellow gamers the community is a toxic cesspool. That hurts the game as much as the bugs and the rest of what's currently going on. Although I have level 65's in every class but BH (never got into BH) and "know my class" etc, I have next to zero desire to group with anyone for anything for the above reasons. Add to those the incessant "rush rush rush, skip everything we possibly can, "spacebar or we kick you" crap that is so prevalent and yeah....who wants to put themselves into that situation.

 

The community, as much as the bugs, etc, are bleeding the joy out of this game.

This post is a perfect explanation of why MMOs are starting to fade away. They NEED casual players to survive. But the hardcore, tough-guy, highly experienced players all too often crap all over casuals and noobs and constantly agitate against anything that makes the game more accessible to casuals.

[OniGanon]

lolwhat

 

The old tacticals were so easy that having a healer just slowed a group down. Literally none of them were difficult.

 

Literally none, huh.

 

So in your experience, the average random PUGs could handle Ortuno or that Meltdown desert boss as a 4xDPS group?

[Djiini]

That's really not the issue, the issue is that all the enemies are scaled up to 65, but so are players, only without a ton of utilities and skills. So they get dunked.

[ZanyaCross]

They need some adjustments but don't even think of suggesting putting it back to the way it was. You're out of your mind. Random FPs used to take an hour to pop if you were lucky. Specific ones? You might as well grab a Tolstoy novel 'cause if you go on your class quest and level past the FPs" You got jack for it. .

 

Now? Even if you queue for a specific FP the wait is like 15min. Even counting for the time I'm explaining mechanics to new players that's still a hell of a lot less time I'm spending. The fights leading up to the bosses need to be tuned a bit better and some of the mid-bosses need to be adjusted a bit (seriously, some of them have over a million HP now), but that's it.

 

And for all the people crying for the poor poor newbies?

 

Every group with low level players I've been in I've gotten them through every FP. I teach them the mechanics, I assign them specific roles, I take heat off them when I can. Some of the fights have been hard, a few even brutal, but the feeling those kids get when we get through it all is worth it.

 

So in your experience, the average random PUGs could handle Ortuno or that Meltdown desert boss as a 4xDPS group?

 

If you mean Czerka Core Meltdown I've hit that at least 4 times since patch with PUGs. Sometimes as the old timer, sometimes as the lowbie. Never had a problem. Once I explain the mechanics of the final boss it's pretty much as straight forward as it gets.

 

EDIT: I finally remembered what "desert boss" you might be talking about. With the sandstorm effect? Yeah, that's tough with four DPSs if you don't know what you're doing. Even among four DPS's there's always going to be someone who's naturally better at p***ing it off, so that lucky person gets to drag it to the station while one other acts as dedicated healer, running to the kolto stations through the sandstorm (preferably with force-speed).

 

Once we figured it out it wasn't even that hard. Took maybe three tries to get it down, and yes, with all four of us DPSs and one of us like Lv 20.

Edited November 23, 2015 by ZanyaCross

[thelordofhate]

Bring back the trinity. Right now, there is absolutely no reason to play Tank or Healer characters, since you will just end up with a tank who gets all the aggro and no healing, or a healer trying to heal through people being 2-shotted by trash mobs. Bioware has absolutely RUINED flashpoints. I'd rather wait 15 minutes in a queue and know that there is a chance of completing a flashpoint rather than pull my hair out when I have to queue OVER and OVER and OVER because the group keeps wiping before we even get to the end boss. This was the stupidest thing Bioware has ever done.

[Philip_V]

Agreed. I think the flashpoints should have certain levels where they unlock. Level sync should still apply to them, so you can still do all of them when you're overleveled, but players shouldn't be bolstered up to do them, especially at level 10. I honestly hate tactical flashpoints anyway. There was nothing wrong with story mode flashpoints as they were.

[Tarkashae]

Bring back the trinity. Right now, there is absolutely no reason to play Tank or Healer characters, since you will just end up with a tank who gets all the aggro and no healing, or a healer trying to heal through people being 2-shotted by trash mobs. Bioware has absolutely RUINED flashpoints.

 

This right here. I don't do older flashpoints anymore, because I play tanks and healers. At least I can enjoy soloing on my tank characters.

 

The star fortress heroic is alright, because I can use my companion to heal or dps - and group up with any one else of any spec and have a good time.

[Akeashar]

As a somewhat serious player (ie. always read up on how to play my classes, try to at least read through flashpoint guides if going in group finder, try to practice rotations just in regular fights vs golds etc) I set myself a rule that I sign up for a flashpoint only after I’m at or higher than what the pre-4.0 minimal level for it was. Sure, my healer could jump into a random fight that might have me trying to heal (or Kolto tank camp) through any Flashpoint from level 15 onwards, but I respect the potential PUG group-mates I might have enough to not go in until I have the skills (abilities) that the battle was originally intended for at least.

 

This means, that hitting 50 I’m still not ready to sign up for the full suite of them, but at least I know when eventually I can be the best I can be. That’s primarily why I believe that while I have no issue with bolstering, I’d personally prefer that they had left the minimal levels on them, since you'd have tanks without tank buttons, healers without AoEs or HoTs, DPS without all their whack-bonk-thingies otherwise.

 

For Tactical flashpoints in general? I love they exist. It may not be as much of an issue for tanks or healers, but as a Fury Marauder I found I was having entire nights go by without a group pre-4.0. I literally spent a week signed up for Boarding Party, and never had a bite, so I ended up soloing the flashpoint after outleveling it by 10 levels. Post-4.0, as above people have commented, even on quiet nights you can still get a group after 15 minutes or so. Even if they may be rough, or chaotic, or bring me to tears on my healer as all the bolstered lowbies ignore theexistence for CC or letting me heal everyone up after a rough trash pull, I still prefer them existing to not.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Akeashar

[thelordofhate]

Occasionally you'll get a group of 65's which makes even the (former) lower level flashpoints manageable, but it's unreasonable to expect that only high level people will be entering them. In fact, the opposite is true - it's lowbies who need the daily data crystals. Some of them don't have all of the skills to make an effective rotation as has been mentioned. But I think the de-motivation for anyone to bother with tanks or healers is the worst factor at play with this. I outright deleted a level 45 tank because I couldn't stand the frustration anymore, and yes, I DO know how to play my class. But all the cooldowns and player skill still don't amount to a hill of beans when you're pulling all of the aggro and not being healed.

[wadecounty]

Here is the problem. Bads do not want to tank or heal. At the same time, bads are still horrible at DPS, they just mistakenly think being DPS allows you to stick your thumb up your butt and its ok. Since they only are willing to DPS, they only queue for tacticals since HM Flashpoints take much longer to pop.

 

Tacticals are easy, even at level 15.

 

The real issue is, bads refuse to tank or heal, so bads queue for tacticals, so most tactical groups contain at least 2+ bads. Bads will be bads. Just have to accept it.

[Loc_n_lol]

I wish they'd get rid of those stupid healing stations (never liked them, really...) and give us something more interesting, like new abilities on our BRAND NEW& AWESOME TEMP BAR : group heal, combat stealth / aggro wipe, uber defensive cooldown, self purge, extra CC, high damage aoe, taunt... You know, make things actually "tactical" and role neutral by giving everyone all the tools to do stuff regardless of their role, class & level.

 

...instead of stupid stations placed in the most inconvenient locations that you can't click because the boss is in the way but that heal you so much you can't possibly die once you manage to click them.

[hooty]

Here is the problem. Bads do not want to tank or heal. At the same time, bads are still horrible at DPS, they just mistakenly think being DPS allows you to stick your thumb up your butt and its ok. Since they only are willing to DPS, they only queue for tacticals since HM Flashpoints take much longer to pop.

 

Tacticals are easy, even at level 15.

 

The real issue is, bads refuse to tank or heal, so bads queue for tacticals, so most tactical groups contain at least 2+ bads. Bads will be bads. Just have to accept it.

 

TFPs are all about good teamwork and attitude. The vast majority of groups will succeed if they have those, even with one or two inexperienced low level players in the group. As long as those players can work as a team.

 

I agree the primary problem is not "kolto stations", it's players with bad attitudes. Not to worry, now that companions have been buffed many people will go back to what they were doing at 4.0 launch. Wait for the bad(s) to quit, and pull up companion(s) thus making the FP easy mode.

[TitusOfTides]

I tried Depths of Manaan the other day on my level 30 Scoundrel, and we had 2 Guardians (one at 65) and another Scoundrel. My group failed the final boss fight so many times they all quit, and I couldn't look for replacements because I had an active phase - so I had to leave, wasting the hour I spent playing with those idiots. Edited November 25, 2015 by TitusOfTides

[Ceinwyn]

I wish they'd get rid of those stupid healing stations (never liked them, really...) and give us something more interesting, like new abilities on our BRAND NEW& AWESOME TEMP BAR : group heal, combat stealth / aggro wipe, uber defensive cooldown, self purge, extra CC, high damage aoe, taunt... You know, make things actually "tactical" and role neutral by giving everyone all the tools to do stuff regardless of their role, class & level...

 

That is ... a really good idea. Signed.

[kirorx]

My sniper cant take direct hits from a boss. I did an all dps group last night and it was rough, mechanics aside, we just couldnt hang

[Nomad_Zero]

Yeah, i agree with op, they (the devs) have created a distinct imbalance in the fp's with whatever they've tinkered with. I had my last fill of it today. Ran tactical blood hunt, was on my 65 dps commando, mostly 216 gear, grouped up with lvls 20-40, no healers. I drew most of the aggro, and as has been the pattern, make it to Jos and Vok, have multiple wipes till the group starts leaving. Then queue up and get tactical fp depths of manaan, people left before we even started. Finally get in to tactical directive 7, drew all the aggro, 7 wipes and Id had enough.

 

Ive played this game for several years, im geared, i know my abilities and how to use them. Its just not enjoyable with the changes they've made. So I decided to unsubscribe. If you like it more power to you. Its just no longer an enjoyable game for me.

[branmakmuffin]

Yeah, i agree with op, they (the devs) have created a distinct imbalance in the fp's with whatever they've tinkered with. I had my last fill of it today. Ran tactical blood hunt, was on my 65 dps commando, mostly 216 gear, grouped up with lvls 20-40, no healers. I drew most of the aggro, and as has been the pattern, make it to Jos and Vok, have multiple wipes till the group starts leaving. Then queue up and get tactical fp depths of manaan, people left before we even started

I leave after the first wipe on Jos/Valk or Ortuno. BH and Manann tac definitely require a group who knows what they are doing.

 

Finally get in to tactical directive 7, drew all the aggro, 7 wipes and Id had enough.

D7 should not be a problem. Must've been bad communication (which you can't do anything about since you can't make people listen to you). All the FPs that were level 50HMs (as well as Red Reaper) are easy peasy as level 65 tacs.

 

I tried Depths of Manaan the other day on my level 30 Scoundrel, and we had 2 Guardians (one at 65) and another Scoundrel. My group failed the final boss fight so many times they all quit.

You made it past Ortuno and wiped on the final boss? Does not compute.

Edited November 26, 2015 by branmakmuffin