Communication and Bioware...why this continues to be a problem

[LordArtemis]

Just my opinion folks, one persons opinion. I speak for no one but myself.

 

Ok, a while back I took a breather from this game based on the CSM debacle, which was badly handled from start to finish IMO. It still remains unresolved in my eyes, but that is a discussion for another time.

 

What I wanted to touch on now is what I feel stands as Biowares worst and prevailing weakness...communication.

 

I will cite one example, though there are countless others....level sync.

 

I assume that many folks, based on feedback around the net, felt that, with the information released at the time level sync was a bad move all around. There was little good that would come of it.

 

Removing progression from a game is a big step...a BIG step that can potential alienate an entire playerbase....just ask SOE (no, this is NOT a CU/NGE comparison). But it can also be a positive step, depending on how it is done.

 

And I think Bioware ALMOST did it right. Almost. Very close to perfect. The trick....the boost in level.

 

Sure, leveling exists now as a gate for abilities only, in its simplest terms. But gameplay has not been drastically changed IMO....aggro range is high, and that could use adjustment, but other than that most players I would expect remain reasonably powerful on the planets they quest on even WITH level sync, for two very important reasons....

 

1) Companions have received what could be argued as a substantial strength boost.

2) The sync level is generally 2 to 5 levels above current mobs on the planet, or around the max suggested level for that planet (to obviously avoid the mobs being grey and worthless).

 

Folks were wary but generally seem to accept this change, and this bodes well for it overall...but the problem remains....

 

Lack of proper communication likely hurt the title. Players had next to NO idea that this is how level sync would be set up.

 

Perhaps Bioware felt, seemingly as always, that the content would speak for itself and spoilers should be avoided.

 

I feel this continues to be this companies problem....they simply do not understand the players that play their game, and the potential market that exists....An information vacuum breeds drama and discord, deserved or not.

 

This is a MAJOR change. A drastic one that should have had a HUGE open discussion before it was implemented. Feedback should have been solicited. Adjustments should have been made. Interviews that focused on THIS change, not the storyline.

 

But that didn't happen.

 

There has to be some way to get Bioware to see the error of it's ways here. If it continues in this "one step forward, one step back" pattern it will never stop struggling to reach the point of critical mass and become retention positive in a meaningful way.

 

IMO a few things need to happen ASAP.

 

Eric Musco needs more freedom to discuss upcoming features and their impact on the game.

 

Balance efforts need to END, at least for a while. Enough is enough. You need to leave the abilities as they are for some time so players can get used to playing their classes again without CONSTANT CHANGES.

 

A focus pass needs to be made on the following things.....

 

Quality of character appearance

Quality of ALL ship landing and takeoff sequences

Agro range on all mobs needs to be reduced.

Focus on bugs and fixes.

Music at the end of class stories needs a pass. Republic stories should close with SW ending music (

), Empire with Imperial March (

) that tapers off....come on guys, the new SW film is coming. Make a real connection. Pull our heart strings.

 

But most of all, and I really can't stress this enough, IT IS TIME TO CONSIDER YOUR CUSTOMERS WHEN MAKING CHANGES. Talk to us. Tell us what you are planning. Solicit feedback. Let us spread the word.

 

Thanks for your time.

Edited November 2, 2015 by LordArtemis

[znihilist]

Perhaps Bioware felt, seemingly as always, that the content would speak for itself and spoilers should be avoided.

 

I seriously do not agree with this, they perfectly understand who plays their game, evident by how successful this expansion has been. Without going into details that borders on forum rules breaking, let me say it in this way with the actual release of KotFE a lot of the changes were as we pictured them from 2 months earlier, so why were they "delaying" the release of the information? When game developers say out loud (jokingly) that he can't talk with the Marketing director nearby (in one of the Cantina events), then it is obvious what is going on. The problem lies with mitigation of controversy. Stuff are changing, fundamental design choices are changing, and they (rightfully or not) are afraid of the reaction, so whoever is in charge decided that silence -or to put it in a better way "controlled silence"- is the better strategy.

 

This will not change as long as they are taking controversial decisions, expected it to last!

[Sansanor]

I agree. They need to increase the communication between the dev team and the players. If they don't, they will continue to have people screaming about things they want to implement. And once they do implement things, they will have more screaming because it wasn't as presented to us.

 

Perhaps there needs to be a player's council enacted. It'd be a group of players the development team looks to for feedback, suggestions, and such. They, of course, are bound by a NDA for most things that aren't announced yet, but it would let the players feel like they have a voice in the game. Turbine has implemented it for LotRO with varying success. Their player's council takes suggestions from the player base and generally pays attention to the overall feel of the game, from the player's point of view. I can't say it'd make everyone happy, but it just might help.

[RogerApple]

If by listen to feedback you mean listen to a bunch of minority players who create several threads on the same topic while the silent majority agrees and accepts the changes. They refuse to bow to the pressure of a failed business model or cave into the demands of people who kick and scream on the forms like its going out of style. If you mean they stand firm in providing fun and entertainment without catering to the vocal minority then they are listening to feedback. The majority. Game is fine.

[ZionHalcyon]

I never know where the Community Management Department ends and the Marketing Department begins, really.

 

That said, most people now who are playing the game seem to be enjoying the slightly OPed companions and being slightly over-leveled. The one thing I don't see acknowledged from its detractors is the possibility that this was a conscious design choice by BioWare - that they scaled it to the side of easy on purpose, with the idea being making the game more accessible to casual players.

 

I think what was done wasn't a "mistake" or even something in need of "tuning" - I think it was a conscious choice and it overall has made the game and story flow MUCH better. It's removed a lot of the feeling of Grind.

 

As far as what they do and don't talk about, one thing we do know, that we have now and have enough examples of, is a pattern. BioWare doesn't really give players any details on what major updates they are working on until about a month before it is released, no exception.

 

They might announce it, but you will not get hard details until it hits that TC or right before. It was that way with Forged Alliances, it was that way with SoR, it was that way, despite saying they would do otherwise, with KotFE.

 

No, rather than the freedom to talk, which they will never have, I prefer they just learn to properly manage expectations. There's enough of a reasonable pattern here where they should just pony up and tell the player base "look, when we do our major updates, we might announce it a few months out, but don't ever expect much in the way of concrete details until about a month, month and a half out. This is our internal policy, and what we feel is both fair to you and us in terms of our policies on releasing information."

 

 

 

At least then, maybe Eric and the community team might not feel compelled the way they were for KotFE to promise to keep the hype levels up and not be stingy with the information, only to have them go essentially radio silent the week after other than the repeated repeating of repitition of "OUtlander, Outlander, OUT-LANNNNNNDDDEEEERRR!!!"

 

 

 

"WHAT!!!!"

 

 

 

 

"danga zone...." (couldn't resist).

 

 

 

Anyway, I think the issue is less what they did to the game - its fine and made it more accessible. In fact, the game is incredible now.

 

What's sorely needed at this point in time is for the Community Team to live up to their namesake and be among the community, rather than giving the impression of acting above it, else being hung out to dry perhaps by those above and left to take the shot that should be perhaps going to another department (legal? Marketing proper? EA itself?)

 

 

I want the game to succeed, and now it has the potential to finally do that. But we just simply CANNOT have the gaffes that have happened in the past, like when it came off like Eric was blaming the entire fanbase when some crazy nut stalked a dev and his family.

 

 

I really wish I knew what was holding that department back. It's historically been BioWare's black eye in this game for a long time. And at the end of the day, despite what I've said about individuals on the Community Team, all I really want is for them to step up and be what community teams are in other MMOs like DDO, no more or less, even if it is with those same individuals running the show.

 

BioWare just never managed to learn how to properly manage people or expectations, which leads to the impression they choose to hide from both until they are ready to release.

 

But I digress - I could ramble forever (and already have) on this.

 

At the end of the day, I just want to see the Community Team start to actively engage the community and fan sites, much like it did at launch and like other MMOs still do today.

[g_land]

Welcome back thoughtful wall-o-text! And yes bio ware continues to have issues with this.

[RogerApple]

I mentioned this before I'll say it again. People creating dozens of threads nearly daily that are in the minority that the majority doesn't agree with. I see bumping old threads was not enough. I remember your screen name writing in other threads. So like a special little snowflake you decided to create a thread where several already exists hoping to make enough noise and complain they will smehow reverse the positive changes they have made. I must apoglize but you do not speak on behalf of entire community and I am glad they are not listening to the very small minority.

 

Please kick and complain make noises. It just frustration to the entire community. You people wonder why I getfrustrated sometimes. This is proof of already thread on same topic. You couldn't have posted this in the other threads that existed. You needed to re-hash and re-cycle a thread that only appeals to a small fraction. They are listening to feedback just not the wrong one.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I think it largely is based on them not wanting to promise one thing and give it a full range of details until they feel it's completely ready or risk the baptism by fire (which might come regardless) at least this way, they can say they didn't lie about anything.

[Thunderstriken]

Perhaps Bioware felt, seemingly as always, that the content would speak for itself and spoilers should be avoided.

 

I feel this continues to be this companies problem....they simply do not understand the players that play their game, and the potential market that exists....An information vacuum breeds drama and discord, deserved or not.

 

This is a MAJOR change. A drastic one that should have had a HUGE open discussion before it was implemented. Feedback should have been solicited. Adjustments should have been made. Interviews that focused on THIS change, not the storyline.

 

I submit that it is you that does not understand how games work. A company makes a game they want to make. People play the game. If they like the game they keep playing, if not then they move on. If players like the game overall but there are certain aspects they don't like, they can submit feedback for the developers to consider in future updates.

 

This isn't an open source community project, it's a for profit game title released by a professional game developer with the intention to make money. Of course they value your opinion, but just because you have one doesn't mean they agree with you. Take this total non issue you brought up here, level sync...

 

Level sync is absolutely nothing! Nothing at all, what, so, ever. You call it removing progression, it's not. It removes regression. It doesn't affect anyone in the slightest because it doesn't change the game in any way, shape, or form. In fact, if you really have to look at it as being something, then it can only be looked at as patching an exploit.

 

The game has never had anything to do with going back and ROFLstomping low level mobs. Therefore even though the new feature they implemented that allows players to go back and battle at levels mobs effectively removes the ability to ROFLstomp low level mobs, since that was never part of the game it didn't really remove anything.

 

So let's look at the big picture here...

 

They added a feature that expands the content players have access to by re-purposing old areas. In the past if a player wanted to run a daily every day, they pretty much were stuck running the exact same daily every day. Now, you can run a different daily every day of the week, and then some. They develop this game, they make their living off this game, it's up to them what they feel is best for the game. They had no reason to ask the players if it's OK with them if they add a new feature, nor do they need permission to plug what is basically an exploit, no matter how old.

[ZionHalcyon]

I think it largely is based on them not wanting to promise one thing and give it a full range of details until they feel it's completely ready or risk the baptism by fire (which might come regardless) at least this way, they can say they didn't lie about anything.

 

If that is their policy, fine. The problem here is that it isn't their STATED policy. As players, we are always hungry, almost ravenous for more information on the whole - its what makes us fans. And I understand the challenges dealing with that sort of appetite for information can create.

 

However, the BEST way for dealing with that has always been honesty. Just have a policy and let your fans know - manage expectations.

 

Because while your reasons may be right, and they might be doing it to duck criticism and backlash, you AND they should know by now there is NO way avoid backlash, because there will always bee a vocal group yelling about something.

 

No, the point here is that it is unbecoming for a major gaming company to appear to be cowering in a corner in fear of the very people who they sell their product to. It's just bad bad business sense. However you feel about your customers internally, Customer Service matters, ESPECIALLY in Community Management, where the more savvy Community Managers out there know how to steer communities to bring out their best aspects rather than their worst.

[Reno_Tarshil]

If that is their policy, fine. The problem here is that it isn't their STATED policy. As players, we are always hungry, almost ravenous for more information on the whole - its what makes us fans. And I understand the challenges dealing with that sort of appetite for information can create.

 

However, the BEST way for dealing with that has always been honesty. Just have a policy and let your fans know - manage expectations.

 

Because while your reasons may be right, and they might be doing it to duck criticism and backlash, you AND they should know by now there is NO way avoid backlash, because there will always bee a vocal group yelling about something.

 

No, the point here is that it is unbecoming for a major gaming company to appear to be cowering in a corner in fear of the very people who they sell their product to. It's just bad bad business sense. However you feel about your customers internally, Customer Service matters, ESPECIALLY in Community Management, where the more savvy Community Managers out there know how to steer communities to bring out their best aspects rather than their worst.

 

I don't work for BW, that was just my observation on the matter.

[DarthMaulUK]

You guys must all be new here. Bioware and this 'Community' team have always been poor with their communication and actual community engagement. The potential to have done and do so much more is staggering but unfortunately it's metric central at Bioware, which is probably why the game splutters along each year.

[LordArtemis]

If by listen to feedback you mean listen to a bunch of minority players who create several threads on the same topic while the silent majority agrees and accepts the changes. They refuse to bow to the pressure of a failed business model or cave into the demands of people who kick and scream on the forms like its going out of style. If you mean they stand firm in providing fun and entertainment without catering to the vocal minority then they are listening to feedback. The majority. Game is fine.

 

I don't mean any of that. My meaning is obvious based on the words used in my post. And the game is not fine IMO, but it could be. Thank you for offering yours.

[Thunderstriken]

No, the point here is that it is unbecoming for a major gaming company to appear to be cowering in a corner in fear of the very people who they sell their product to. It's just bad bad business sense.

 

Where do you get the idea they are cowering in a corner? That's absurd. They do not have to justify their intentions, nor do they have to defend their actions, because they are most definitely, as you have said yourself, a major gaming company.

[ZionHalcyon]

I don't work for BW, that was just my observation on the matter.

 

Never said you did, no need to be all defensive.

[LordArtemis]

I mentioned this before I'll say it again. People creating dozens of threads nearly daily that are in the minority that the majority doesn't agree with. I see bumping old threads was not enough. I remember your screen name writing in other threads. So like a special little snowflake you decided to create a thread where several already exists hoping to make enough noise and complain they will smehow reverse the positive changes they have made. I must apoglize but you do not speak on behalf of entire community and I am glad they are not listening to the very small minority.

 

I like the companions as they are, and I happen to like level sync (though aggro range could use some adjustment). Think before you post. Your not doing yourself any favors here.

 

Please kick and complain make noises. It just frustration to the entire community. You people wonder why I getfrustrated sometimes. This is proof of already thread on same topic. You couldn't have posted this in the other threads that existed. You needed to re-hash and re-cycle a thread that only appeals to a small fraction. They are listening to feedback just not the wrong one.

 

I don't wonder why you get frustrated....but I do wonder what your thinking when you post sometimes.

 

Perhaps you might need to take a break for a bit. The forum seems to be getting under your skin.

Edited November 2, 2015 by LordArtemis

[ZionHalcyon]

Where do you get the idea they are cowering in a corner? That's absurd. They do not have to justify their intentions, nor do they have to defend their actions, because they are most definitely, as you have said yourself, a major gaming company.

 

Its a metaphor, tough guy, given all I've seen since having been here from the very beginning.

[LordArtemis]

I think it largely is based on them not wanting to promise one thing and give it a full range of details until they feel it's completely ready or risk the baptism by fire (which might come regardless) at least this way, they can say they didn't lie about anything.

 

I understand that fear, and it certainly makes sense, but I think it might be hurting them more than helping them, especially with dramatic changes such as these.

[LordArtemis]

I submit that it is you that does not understand how games work. A company makes a game they want to make. People play the game. If they like the game they keep playing, if not then they move on. If players like the game overall but there are certain aspects they don't like, they can submit feedback for the developers to consider in future updates.

 

This isn't an open source community project, it's a for profit game title released by a professional game developer with the intention to make money. Of course they value your opinion, but just because you have one doesn't mean they agree with you. Take this total non issue you brought up here, level sync...

 

Level sync is absolutely nothing! Nothing at all, what, so, ever. You call it removing progression, it's not. It removes regression. It doesn't affect anyone in the slightest because it doesn't change the game in any way, shape, or form. In fact, if you really have to look at it as being something, then it can only be looked at as patching an exploit.

 

The game has never had anything to do with going back and ROFLstomping low level mobs. Therefore even though the new feature they implemented that allows players to go back and battle at levels mobs effectively removes the ability to ROFLstomp low level mobs, since that was never part of the game it didn't really remove anything.

 

So let's look at the big picture here...

 

They added a feature that expands the content players have access to by re-purposing old areas. In the past if a player wanted to run a daily every day, they pretty much were stuck running the exact same daily every day. Now, you can run a different daily every day of the week, and then some. They develop this game, they make their living off this game, it's up to them what they feel is best for the game. They had no reason to ask the players if it's OK with them if they add a new feature, nor do they need permission to plug what is basically an exploit, no matter how old.

 

Fair enough. I disagree with most of your points. But I appreciate the participation.

[Thunderstriken]

Its a metaphor, tough guy, given all I've seen since having been here from the very beginning.

 

While I find it quite amusing that you suspected I took what you said in a literal sense, I assure you the metaphor was not lost on me. However, to remove all doubt I will rephrase my question...

 

What gives you the impression they are metaphorically cowering in the corner?

[Reno_Tarshil]

Never said you did, no need to be all defensive.

 

You lumped me in with them. You capitalized the word "and" for emphasis.

 

I understand that fear, and it certainly makes sense, but I think it might be hurting them more than helping them, especially with dramatic changes such as these.

 

While I understand why this might be bad for business I'd rather them not turn into Blizzard and promise a whole zone for their WoW expansion and just mysteriously cut it and act like it didn't exist.

[hadoken]

Interesting, I thought I read recently that subs were up 33%.

 

If that were true, do you really think BioWare feels they need to change anything about how they're communicating things? I'm just curious where the 'biofail' is coming from THIS time. Forum angst?

[LordArtemis]

In this case, just to be clear (since it seems I need to be for some folks) my issue stands with the lack of community discussion for what I consider MAJOR game changes.

 

And removing progression is a major change IMO. Sure, folks can disagree with that, and that is fine. I think the vitriol around the net stands in evidence otherwise.

 

Quite a few folks out there spreading fallacies about the level sync, and that was due to a lack of information. The fault for that, and any potential subscription gains lost, or lost subs for that matter as a result sits on Biowares shoulders.

 

This is not a new problem....they seem to lack the ability to understand their players, current and potential. There are things you can hold back on, and there are things that ABSOLUTELY need to be discussed.

 

Level sync was one of those things. It is not getting a fair wrap.

[LordArtemis]

Interesting, I thought I read recently that subs were up 33%.

 

If that were true, do you really think BioWare feels they need to change anything about how they're communicating things? I'm just curious where the 'biofail' is coming from THIS time. Forum angst?

 

Hello again Hadoken.

 

Your curiosity would be served if you simply read the original post. That provides all of the information needed to satiate that curiosity of yours.

 

That is, unless of course you are attempting to make a statement instead......

 

Which is fine. There is nothing wrong with feeling nothing is wrong of course. That is what the forum is for...so we can offer our views.

 

If that is yours, obviously that is not mine. But I didn't have to tell you that..did I.

[VanorDM]

This is not a new problem....they seem to lack the ability to understand their players, current and potential.

 

To be fair, this also isn't an issue with just Bioware. I've seen this same thread made in just about every MMO I've ever played, since City of Heroes.

 

I'm not saying I disagree. Just that this seems to be a universal issue, which leads me to question if there's some fundamental things we just don't understand that leads to us not getting the level of information we think we should.