spazmasterXIII Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I keep hearing people say Bioware shouldn't have made an MMO and I just don't understand the hate. Don't get me wrong, I loved KOTOR but I can't comprehend why people would rather have a KOTOR 3 then this game. I'm more of a solo player myself but this game is glorious compared to KOTOR 1 and 2 simply because SWTOR has more to offer because it's an mmo. I know without a doubt that if this was KOTOR 3 I would be restricted to only playing as a Jedi with a much shorter play-through. With SWTOR not only am I getting multiple classes but each class has their own unique story to boot with the additional option to play with other players if I'm in the mood. Customization is better than a typical RPG and I'm getting way more content then any non-MMO game would ever receive. KOTFE is a great expansion because of the story but I wish all the episodes were released instead the who mounthly thing and I wish the new companions had more to say outside that particular story plus I hope to god they become customizable pretty soon because right now everyone's companions all look the same but getting back on topic, why all the hate for this game?
hadoken Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) These days with fantastic single player RPGs, if they were to do a KOTOR version of it you'd get something with a lot of longevity and complexity. Something like Witcher 3, Skyrim, even DA:I (or the Mass Effect series). I can certainly see the appeal to those who have no interest whatsoever in multiplayer content. Edited November 2, 2015 by hadoken
Billupsat Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I keep hearing people say Bioware shouldn't have made an MMO and I just don't understand the hate. Don't get me wrong, I loved KOTOR but I can't comprehend why people would rather have a KOTOR 3 then this game. I'm more of a solo player myself but this game is glorious compared to KOTOR 1 and 2 simply because SWTOR has more to offer because it's an mmo. I know without a doubt that if this was KOTOR 3 I would be restricted to only playing as a Jedi with a much shorter play-through. With SWTOR not only am I getting multiple classes but each class has their own unique story to boot with the additional option to play with other players if I'm in the mood. Customization is better than a typical RPG and I'm getting way more content then any non-MMO game would ever receive. KOTFE is a great expansion because of the story but I wish all the episodes were released instead the who mounthly thing and I wish the new companions had more to say outside that particular story plus I hope to god they become customizable pretty soon because right now everyone's companions all look the same but getting back on topic, why all the hate for this game? Honestly, I would have only wanted a Kotor 3 if it was developed by the same team and writers that did Kotor 2. The storytelling in that game is still leaps and bounds ahead of where Swtor is today. Also, despite your claim that there is more story in Swtor you also have to take into account its limited in how it progresses, the endings for the class stories and light side and dark side are all mostly the same with some different flavors depending on the path you chose. (There are some exceptions obviously), the companions you get are all the same no matter what path you take, there is no variance, so despite being an MMO and ongoing its still very, very, limited in terms of actually making you feel like your choices and decisions have actually mattered along the way. Something that 'probably' wouldn't have happened if Swtor had been Kotor 3, and really probably wouldn't have happened if it had been Obsidian's Kotor 3.
JediQuaker Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I don't know - I've never played KOTOR. I guess some old folks just can't let go of the past.
Billupsat Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I don't know - I've never played KOTOR. I guess some old folks just can't let go of the past. By that logic the prequels were fine. (Note: I don't hate the prequels like some do, but the mass populace seems to loathe them with a fiery passion.)
spazmasterXIII Posted November 2, 2015 Author Posted November 2, 2015 Honestly, I would have only wanted a Kotor 3 if it was developed by the same team and writers that did Kotor 2. The storytelling in that game is still leaps and bounds ahead of where Swtor is today. Also, despite your claim that there is more story in Swtor you also have to take into account its limited in how it progresses, the endings for the class stories and light side and dark side are all mostly the same with some different flavors depending on the path you chose. (There are some exceptions obviously), the companions you get are all the same no matter what path you take, there is no variance, so despite being an MMO and ongoing its still very, very, limited in terms of actually making you feel like your choices and decisions have actually mattered along the way. Something that 'probably' wouldn't have happened if Swtor had been Kotor 3, and really probably wouldn't have happened if it had been Obsidian's Kotor 3. KOTOR was the same, no matter the choices the companions stayed the same no matter what path you took, it's not like if I desided to be dark side Jedi I unlocked a whole different party. They were exactly the same as light side Jedi the interactions were just different.
MiraBindo Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I don't know - I've never played KOTOR. I guess some old folks just can't let go of the past. If you haven't played either, i would highly recommend picking them up on steam. The combat is dated and can feel slow, but if you enjoy the bioware storytelling it's definitely worth your time. If you decide to, make sure KOTOR 2 has the restored content mod installed (available on steam workshop, very easy to install). Sadly Obsidian was rushed with the release, and had to cut a pretty hefty chunk of content. That being said i very much enjoy this game, it's just different. playing through the class stories was great.
Billupsat Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 KOTOR was the same, no matter the choices the companions stayed the same no matter what path you took, it's not like if I desided to be dark side Jedi I unlocked a whole different party. They were exactly the same as light side Jedi the interactions were just different. That's why I said I preferred Kotor 2, which is actually different is parts when light/dark and male/female. Had Kotor 3, been developed by Obsidian rather than Bioware it would most likely have been better than all three of the games we currently have. Story-wise at least.
LordArtemis Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 ......why all the hate for this game? Well, there are a few factors at play....but it mostly stems from "first impressions are lasting ones" IMO. And that one is hard to change. It started with an original dev team that frankly was out of touch entirely with their playerbase. They instead designed a game for another playerbase (WoW) with a SW skin, providing little to Bioware fans, SW fans or KotOR fans (other than companion use and the conversation wheel). Then this was compounded by that teams arrogance when it came to change, the current market and how they treated players and their opinions....going so far as to directly insult those that were critical of the game in public. This was a debacle IMO, and at least contributed to the mass exodus from the game. The F2P launch finally set the game as it should have been from launch, but it was a bit late....still, the game survived. One could argue it is doing reasonably well despite obvious market bias. What has at least contributed to the hate recently is the constant balance crusade....once again, the same mistake WoW made, once again going WoWs route without bothering to research Blizzards very public admittance and acceptance of this mistake, and ONCE AGAIN suffering the consequences IMO. Again, out of touch. And the new dev team was doing so well with the F2P launch and game changes until they started borking classes with constant changes and fixes.
LordDelectus Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I loved KOTOR, but as far as I can tell, TOR is never-ending KOTOR.
TUXs Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I loved KOTOR, but as far as I can tell, TOR is never-ending KOTOR. That's the beauty of MMOs...the story doesn't end after the last cut-scene or last level you gain...the story shifts to being the one YOU create!
Sith_Ravager Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 KOTOR...it was ok...played it through Light...Played it through Dark...then after I was done, into the bins with all my other old games... Same with KOTOR 2...bought both in the clearance bin...was kinda glad I did...no replayability killed it for me... Thats my current problem with 4.0, I just honestly dont understand how someone could want a single-player game, thats just pretty much cut-scenes...no real game-play...no longevity...if I knew STWOR was going to be this...I never would have bought the Deluxe Edition, nor would I have subbed for the time I have...I would have waited for it to be on clearance, played through Light, Dark...and into the old game collection..
CarpeSangrea Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Well, there are a few factors at play....but it mostly stems from "first impressions are lasting ones" IMO. And that one is hard to change. It started with an original dev team that frankly was out of touch entirely with their playerbase. They instead designed a game for another playerbase (WoW) with a SW skin, providing little to Bioware fans, SW fans or KotOR fans (other than companion use and the conversation wheel). Then this was compounded by that teams arrogance when it came to change, the current market and how they treated players and their opinions....going so far as to directly insult those that were critical of the game in public. This was a debacle IMO, and at least contributed to the mass exodus from the game. The F2P launch finally set the game as it should have been from launch, but it was a bit late....still, the game survived. One could argue it is doing reasonably well despite obvious market bias. What has at least contributed to the hate recently is the constant balance crusade....once again, the same mistake WoW made, once again going WoWs route without bothering to research Blizzards very public admittance and acceptance of this mistake, and ONCE AGAIN suffering the consequences IMO. Again, out of touch. And the new dev team was doing so well with the F2P launch and game changes until they started borking classes with constant changes and fixes. This guy gets it.
EnkiduNineEight Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 That's the beauty of MMOs...the story doesn't end after the last cut-scene or last level you gain...the story shifts to being the one YOU create! Whichis why I believe a hybrid Sandbox/Themepark model is a good thing. BioWare ignores the sandbox though and this lates release completely ignores the sandbox, its about _biowares_ story at this point, not your own. great for single player, bad for multiplayer.
Billupsat Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 KOTOR...it was ok...played it through Light...Played it through Dark...then after I was done, into the bins with all my other old games... Same with KOTOR 2...bought both in the clearance bin...was kinda glad I did...no replayability killed it for me... Thats my current problem with 4.0, I just honestly dont understand how someone could want a single-player game, thats just pretty much cut-scenes...no real game-play...no longevity...if I knew STWOR was going to be this...I never would have bought the Deluxe Edition, nor would I have subbed for the time I have...I would have waited for it to be on clearance, played through Light, Dark...and into the old game collection.. If you play Bioware games for anything other than story, you are doing it wrong. That's what they are famous for, story, sometimes at the detriment of gameplay. Oh, and Kotor was much better than okay despite how much I might rag on it, I just happen to like Kotor 2, much, much better. So much so that when people say 'star wars' the first thing that pops into my head is Kotor 2. It had an amazing story that was very, very repeatable in the same way people have a favorite novel or movie they like to read/watch over and over again. Bioware games are about story over gameplay, if that's not something you like then maybe this isn't the gaming company for you.
pegasussgc Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) I absolutely love KOTOR 1 and 2. They both had a big role in fostering my enjoyment of video games and Star Wars in general. I also love SWTOR, so I don't think it's a bad thing to be "obsessed" with KOTOR, as they build on each other for me. A lot of people love to hate SWTOR, just as they do many games, especially the new Battlefront. Hating has become just a past-time for many people, I honestly don't understand it myself. That being said, I would love to see Obsidian make KOTOR 3. There's still plenty of untapped timeline in the Star Wars universe that they could come up with some great stories. I believe, there is room for both SWTOR and a KOTOR 3 in the world. Edited November 2, 2015 by pegasussgc
Sith_Ravager Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Whichis why I believe a hybrid Sandbox/Themepark model is a good thing. BioWare ignores the sandbox though and this lates release completely ignores the sandbox, its about _biowares_ story at this point, not your own. great for single player, bad for multiplayer. I got the feeling theyre gonna try and slowly turn it completely into a single-player experience...but still expect the MMO fans to fork out a sub, I wont be suprised if in the next few months they determine theyre loosing money from sub loses, because why pay the sub for maybe an hours new content...when instead we can wait till its all released, and sub then..then I see them doing something realy craptastic like, the only way to get the expansion is to be subed for every month it comes out...sadly though I can see people still fighting that this is a good idea...
dipstik Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 i think each 1-50 story is like kotor 3-10, but some of the endings merrit a continuation in my opinion (inquisitor, smuggler, agent, knight, warrior) but they never happened. bioware stated that they were dropping the personal stories for a galactic story, but many of these were standalone and didnt tie much together. eternity vault, karaggas palace and explosive conflict were based on warlords. with terror from beyond we began the dread guard story, and i think this thread was successful in delivering a spanning story that encompassed the fate of the republic and empire. with forged alliances they really dived into showing that the fates of both factions were connected and we got a story that tied into what some of the 1-50 content spoke to, namely revan. and in the final portions of shadows of revan content we got back to the basics, namely the fate of the emperor, which is where fallen empire begins. i still wish chapter 4 wasnt makeb, or ilum, and we would be able to see the smuggler be the top notch pirate, or the inquisitor have arguments in the dark chamber. perhaps the knight and warrior stories are spoken to by some of the new content. what they started doing with terror from beyond i think they did successfully, but it wasnt really what i wanted. i will say i got new operations out of those galactic stories, which is what i want for end game. and in regards to the topic, kotor struck a nerve long ago for my own personal reasons, and will always hold a special place in my heart, along with those that made it (shout outs to casey hudson and drew karyshyn).
adormitul Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 First Bioware is awesome for its story and above that its characters as even the worst of them is decent but the best is well what made Bioware great. So why KOTOR obsession it is because its a great game quite great game. But do not not get me wrong this is better is just in the back of our heads we wonder how great will a KOTOR 3 is gonna be. We just want more great games.
Jerqa Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I've never tried KOTOR 1 or 2, honestly I had never even heard of them before playing this game. I have thought of buying them and trying them out on the PC. I still might someday. I do not do any console gaming and only came here because I love MMO's and have been a Star Wars fan since the 70's. This is a good game to play in my rotation of EverQuest II and Lord of the Rings online which I have played for years.
Royox Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Same with KOTOR 2...bought both in the clearance bin...was kinda glad I did...no replayability killed it for me... If you think that about KOTOR 2 you haven't played KOTOR2 or you played it wrong. KOTOR 2 is a game you can play 4 times and have diferent companions and story based on your choices like Sex, dark-light, training or not with Kreia, training your whole crew to be Jedis/siths (yes, the whole crew can become force users)...Kotor2 was just so awesome for its time and, even with KOTFE being awesome, TOR can't surpass that level of awesome. Try to find a Speech as deep as this in TOR. You can't.
MasterSpatula Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) KOTOR was the same, no matter the choices the companions stayed the same no matter what path you took, it's not like if I desided to be dark side Jedi I unlocked a whole different party. They were exactly the same as light side Jedi the interactions were just different. Except, of course, for the part where you can order one of your companions to murder another one of them. Edited November 2, 2015 by MasterSpatula
Eillack Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Because SWTOR is a follow-up to Kotor 1 and 2, filled with easter eggs, characters, etc. form Kotor 1 and 2, and is based within the Old Republic Era...where, you guess it, Kotor 1 and 2 originated in / helped create. This thread is like saying, "Wow, why are people so obsessed over Movies X / Y? " while commenting on Movie Z, which is based off of X and Y. You essentially skip the heart and soul of this era (not to mention all the comics based in this era, which yes, is the SAME universe this game takes place in), and then wonder why people mention it a lot...
Billupsat Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 If you think that about KOTOR 2 you haven't played KOTOR2 or you played it wrong. KOTOR 2 is a game you can play 4 times and have diferent companions and story based on your choices like Sex, dark-light, training or not with Kreia, training your whole crew to be Jedis/siths (yes, the whole crew can become force users)...Kotor2 was just so awesome for its time and, even with KOTFE being awesome, TOR can't surpass that level of awesome. Try to find a Speech as deep as this in TOR. You can't. Precisely, nothing in swtor has ever com close to this level of writing and character development.
Nefla Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I loved KotOR back in the day, but I love SWtOR a lot more and that's as someone who does almost no multiplayer content. I like being able to be a non human race, and I love the fact that there are 8 complete storylines each with their own set of companions <3 I'll never get over what they did to Revan though, she didn't deserve to be erased from history and replaced by some immortal angsty generic focus test guy that becomes a stupid and insane villain, and then dies pointlessly.
Recommended Posts