Ovaline Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 KOTFE was marketed as a return to a focus on storytelling. What I can't understand is why the vanilla game released with 8 class stories and KOTFE only has one story that doesn't seem to fit any of my characters. I've played through the expansion as 3 characters, and no matter what, I end up feeling like my character got cheated out of prior characterization. My Bounty Hunter is forced to be loyal to the Empire no matter what. On Corellia I made it clear to Marr that I didn't care about his empire and that I was only on his side because it pays. Suddenly KOTFE assumes that I've changed my mind and that I, as an outlaw, suddenly care who is making the laws. Why would Lana and Koth place the fate of the galaxy on a hired gun who is only in it for the credits? Even IF we accept that I am the most capable fighter in the galaxy and they need me for my Jedi-killing skills, why is an irreverent, selfish criminal with no loyalty to anyone made into leader of the alliance? Why is there no option to skip the speeches in chapter 9? It makes no sense for a Bounty Hunter to give an oppressive dictator speech, and it makes even less sense for me to give an inspiring hero speech. Another problem Bounty Hunter has is that none of my gadgets matter at all, story-wise. In the fight against Arcann my character just shoots him a bunch of times with a pistol. Is that seriously the reason Lana spent all that time finding me and rescuing me from Carbonite, so I could try to kill Arcann with a pistol? They couldn't just use Koth, or hell, T7 for that? Inquisitor was a little less jarring, but there are specific instances that didn't fit this character either. First, it's probably important to note that my sorcerer is Dark 5 and proudly wears the Loathsome title. She is also incredibly proud of her own power and considers herself to be without equal. This is where the biggest conflict lies. My sorcerer would never accept Valkorian's power out of personal pride, but there is no way to refuse him without gaining light side points and losing my title. That's really the biggest flaw in the Dark Side/Light Side points system. Bioware just assigned points to specific actions without considering that different characters might have different reasons for choosing the same thing. I shouldn't have to choose between allowing someone else to control my body, or gaining "light side" points. Other than that, the only gripe really is that the 1-50 story for Inquisitor is largely irrelevant. There was a brief line in the story about why my Silencers are useless but nothing beyond that. There was a one-off mention about the fact that I still have a handful of Force Ghosts living inside me, but you think something like that would be incredibly relevant in the dream sequence. Why do I not have the option to at least make an ATTEMPT to absorb Valkorion like I did with the other force ghosts? Obviously it would fail, to keep the plot going, but the idea never even crosses my character's mind. Agent was probably the worst of the three. Mainly because my character doesn't do a single agent-like thing in the entire storyline. All I do is fight people and fight more people and stand around in the background while everyone else is raising the Gravestone. The Agent's primary skillset is supposed to be infiltration, subterfuge, and sabotage, but I spent the entire expansion acting as just a ****** soldier, no different from the bounty hunter. Am I seriously supposed to believe that Lana's first thought upon hearing that I was frozen in Carbonite was "man, we can't win this thing without Cipher Nine fighting on the frontlines"? All in all, it feels like Bioware wrote a pretty cool story for the Jedi Knight and then sort of hastily forced the other classes into it.
SithKoriandr Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Agreed on Agent! OMG! The story feels even worse on Agent than on Smuggler! Nothing about the Alliance system or the KotFE story feels like the Agent, unless they just give up the whole spy thing. Being a spy though, I will say, they have plenty of good skills to make it working as a soldier For your Inquisitor, that sounds more like a personal issue than a story related one. You seem to want your SI to be without any LS points, rather than a matter of what they would or wouldn't do. Or just look at it as, they finally found that one LS thing they would do...not give into Valkie. All that said, the story feels more focused on force users. JK is likely one of the better ones for it but I think Consular is a great choice also (the Emperor knows of the Consular because she took down his Children, and the Consular has raised an army before). My problem with Warrior is it never really felt like Warrior and Marr got along and then was the Warrior pro Emperor and if so, why would you be working with Marr or against the Emperor and if so, wouldn't you then be less inclined to use her power? Inquisitor I think works great as well, though they seemed forced into the whole want to lead everyone role.
Azzarr Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I've played it with my Sage Consular and Jugg Warrior and both felt great to be honest. My Consular would prefer to be more on the background, but considering the gravity of all that is happening, he feels he needs to get out of that comfort-zone and step up to be the hero everyone wants him to be. And defying Valky left and right trusting in the Force and your own powers works really well. My Warrior was loyal to the Emperor until he betrayed the Empire and he and Marr became the new superpowers in the galaxy. Him being thrown around occasionally feels out of place, but other than that I've been able to correct any assumptions the game throws at you. Valky says something about your loyalty to him as a Wrath, but the Warrior can correct him to say thats no longer the case.
Canareth Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I think it's most jarring where everything is shifted to one morality scale whereas Light Republic was previously Lawful Stupid and Light Sith was still firmly "would be kicked out of Jedi Order.' Ditto Dark Republic being " petulent corrupt brat" and Dark Sith being torture and murder. My Inquisitor who is Light IV but with a few thousand Dark points (pre-12x) including ghosts has made mostly Jedi-type answers through Chapter 9, simply because the Dark choices have been snarling at people for no/counterproductive reason. Darth Marr would make mostly the same choices. Most of the "Dark" options that I have picked are also expedient rather than, say, trying to stop a machine I don't understand from detonating on people I'm at war with in the middle of a high risk rescue mission.
Ovaline Posted November 2, 2015 Author Posted November 2, 2015 For your Inquisitor, that sounds more like a personal issue than a story related one. You seem to want your SI to be without any LS points, rather than a matter of what they would or wouldn't do. Or just look at it as, they finally found that one LS thing they would do...not give into Valkie. Why is resisting Valk a light side choice though? I can be pure evil but that doesn't mean I want to give someone control of my body. If my Sith character resists Valk because I'm too stubborn and proud of my own power and I don't want to share any with him, that's not light side. That's the Sith code to the letter.
Rhyltran Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Why is resisting Valk a light side choice though? I can be pure evil but that doesn't mean I want to give someone control of my body. If my Sith character resists Valk because I'm too stubborn and proud of my own power and I don't want to share any with him, that's not light side. That's the Sith code to the letter. It's essentially Bioware's D&D roots showing. In D&D if you do something evil for the greater good it's still considered an evil act. It doesn't matter if killing that one civilian saves the lives of hundreds of others. You still murdered a civilian. Likewise doing something good for evil reasons is still a good act when you isolate it. In this case resisting Valkorion = Good. You're choosing to forego power and his corrupting influence for whatever reason but in the end you're turning him down.
HollyUSEC Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Why is resisting Valk a light side choice though? I can be pure evil but that doesn't mean I want to give someone control of my body. If my Sith character resists Valk because I'm too stubborn and proud of my own power and I don't want to share any with him, that's not light side. That's the Sith code to the letter. Unfortunately a lot of mission choices force you to do that. For example, all the way on Ord Mantell, a side mission has you track down lost medical supplies that are desperately needed by Republic soldiers fighting the separatists. You find out they were stolen by a Cathar woman who's trying to treat displaced refugees. After recovering the supplies you have to choose whether to return them to the republic or give them to the refugees. I can see you getting light side points for giving them to the refugees, but WHY do you get DARK SIDE points for giving them to the soldiers? Without the supplies the SOLDIERS will suffer, many will die, and the fighting will go on longer because of insufficient manpower. Not to mention their spouses and children won't like you one bit if they find out you gave away the medicine that could have saved the soldiers' lives! As for the KOTFE story I played it on my IA first, and although I had a really good time (felt fantastic meeting the Lady of Sorrows for example), in hindsight I have to agree with the OP to a point. The KOTFE story DOES resonate more strongly with a force-using warrior than an ex-spy whose strengths lie more in subterfuge and infiltration than in direct frontline combat.
Shayddow Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 <<Agreed on Agent! OMG! The story feels even worse on Agent than on Smuggler! Nothing about the Alliance system or the KotFE story feels like the Agent, unless they just give up the whole spy thing.>> I have to agree somewhat on the agent thing - you go through your whole career being told by your ability trainer "trust no one" and all of a sudden you are being put in a position of trusting others - having others trust you - in order to build up your alliance... On the BH thing - I did find it appropriate in the end of chapter 2: you are pitted against Mandalore rather than Darth Marr. Although as a true Mandalorian - the Mando code does allow for challengers to fight the leader without that considered being a "bad" thing - it is a warrior culture.
darkov Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The story is clearly an extension of the Jedi Knight story. It felt alright on my Consular, but not great. I'm doing it with my Trooper and Inquisitor at the moment and expect both to be a little weird. Probably will never do it on the Knight though, as I don't like the class. Hopefully BioWare takes some of this feedback on board in the future chapters and makes it feel a little less "Knight" and little more inclusive of the other classes.
Shadowonyxia Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 I personally think all force sensitive classes fit in well with the story. Especially JK and SW. But I agree 100% on the agent and bounty hunter. I'm personally enjoying the story on my DS Sith Warrior. Everything fits in with him as being the former Wrath of the Emporer to now become his wrath again eventually, maybe. It all depends on how the story is going to be played out in the future chapters.
Lailerosse Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 Why is resisting Valk a light side choice though? I can be pure evil but that doesn't mean I want to give someone control of my body. If my Sith character resists Valk because I'm too stubborn and proud of my own power and I don't want to share any with him, that's not light side. That's the Sith code to the letter. Yes! My thoughts exactly! Also, if you're playing Inquisitor it seems obvious they'd take their past into consideration. Inquisitor knows a thing or two about possession - they had problems with their ghosts, Zash possessed Khem Val, so they should know that if using Valk's powers is letting him take control for a moment, that's not a smart thing to do. If you're playing Inquisitor refusing him is not LS choice, it's just common sense.
EdwinLi Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) I think the problem is to determine if the story should be a continuation or a reset/clean slate storyline. The galaxy we know is now gone due to Arcaan's actions through the 5 year time gap and the great heroes of the republic and empire are currently MIA or assumed KIA during the 5 year time gap with only the Outlander being the one hero found to be still alive. While we do get a few mentions of past events the story feels like it is trying to start a clean slate where the Outlander's past doesn't matter but what he or she does now may or will. Ya we get a few benefits and mentions here and there for being "this class" but it serves more of a Origin background effect. Edited November 4, 2015 by EdwinLi
Master-Nala Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 I'm currently taking one of my Scoundrels through this. She's a criminal. Arcann even discussed that fact. This story makes absolutely no sense for her. She does not care one bit who is in charge so long as there are credits to be made. And really, from what Lana says, Arcann doesn't seem particularly bad. It seems like the biggest downside for the Republic and Sith Empire is their taxes are too high. Can't we just dump an ocean in Zakuul with tea or something?
ChaosIsGolden Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) Honestly, while I loved the story, I agree this story seems geared towards a force user, (JK especially), however despite this I had more fun on my smuggler vs my warrior. What I would have really liked to see was a bigger connection to your class. Like the smuggler throwing a grenade or something you'd expect from a smuggler, while the warrior would use his telekinesis in a struggle against Arcann, etc. in the fight scenes. And more one liners you'd expect from your character, I enjoyed the few I found sprinkled throughout the story, but I'm greedy and I want more. I'm hoping if this pays off for Bioware/EA they'll have a much bigger budget and put more customization into the cut scenes to better fit your class. I'm doubtful since your character is now the Outlander, which makes them a benevolent leader/stern dictator, this is apparent by their end speech in chapter 9. With no middle option that better suites their old personas, but I'm hoping to be wrong and see more individualized future content. Edited November 5, 2015 by ChaosIsGolden
SingaSong Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I'm currently taking one of my Scoundrels through this. She's a criminal. Arcann even discussed that fact. This story makes absolutely no sense for her. She does not care one bit who is in charge so long as there are credits to be made. And really, from what Lana says, Arcann doesn't seem particularly bad. It seems like the biggest downside for the Republic and Sith Empire is their taxes are too high. Can't we just dump an ocean in Zakuul with tea or something? I'd imaging the occupation of planets such as Nar Shaddaa by Zakuulian forces could prove obstructive to the daily goings of various criminal elements such as smugglers and bounty hunters leading to why they may have a stake in getting rid of the Zakuulian invasion. That and Arcann actively hunting them personally to carbonize and imprison them for an unknown period of time. That'll provide a personal reason for wanting to deal with Arcann especially since the occupation may leave them preciously few places to hide where the Zakuulian reach does not extend.
Sardorim Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Well, the story seems to be catered around you being the Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior which are the most popular classes.
tattoohero Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 The agent stopped being a "spy" at the end of chapter 3, no where on Makeb, Rishii, Yavin, or Ziost is the agent doing anything remotely spy-like. Outside of the 1 class mission on Rishi. Everyone is pretending to be some gang member and it's not even the players choice on it. I don't see why complain about it now? Same with the Smuggler and Bounty Hunter. BH isn't after a bounty, the smuggler isn't smuggling anything. All that stopped after chapter 3.
MusicRider Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Force user classes seem to fit better than non-force users. And I think this is to some large extend due to the fact that you become the leader of the alliance. See this post of mine why I feel this was not the right thing to do. Out of the force users I feel that the consular is the most suited for this with the rest following for different reasons: Consular It perfectly fits the background story. A most powerful force user who has already been there and has done that. Inquisitor What? I am still not the Emperor? WTH? Kill the emperor(s) and take his place. It might take a while and might have to tame Valkorion (spirit) but I will get there in time. Warrior Haven't played the storyline with my warrior but I think it would most certainly could have some unique and interesting dialogs given that history the two of you have being Valkorion's, sorry Vitiate's Wrath. Knight Blah. I am surprised there is even a chapter 1 in KoTFE given his background. I.e. he should have walked in the throne room and kill Valkorion, Arkannian and everyone else on the spot, cause in a short amount of time he has become more powerful that Yoda, Palpatine and every other Jedi and Sith legend all combined together. Just blah.
Shayddow Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 <<Blah. I am surprised there is even a chapter 1 in KoTFE given his background. I.e. he should have walked in the throne room and kill Valkorion, Arkannian and everyone else on the spot, cause in a short amount of time he has become more powerful that Yoda, Palpatine and every other Jedi and Sith legend all combined together>> She didn't because t7 wasn't by her side.....
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