Would you PvP if Expertise was removed?

[howieloader]

Except PvP is only exciting the first few times, only slightly longer than PvE is, and the only thing unpredictable in PvP is whether a new player shows up to die or not. The rest might as well be a scripted PvE encounter.

 

Except people learn and evolve and get better... I suppose that means that those that don't aren't really people, are they???

[Megamaid]

It wouldn't change a thing. PvP in this game is bad and that has nothing to do with expertise, if anything removing expertise just creates a new set of problems. PvE gear would become the defacto best in slot, forcing them to bump up the ilevel of PvP gear, however that has the adverse of affect of now having easily obtained gear that is at the same quality as Raid gear. Players would be less likely to raid, since they can get the best gear from PvP and all they have to do is grind for a few weeks and your done.

 

The problem with MMOs and PvP is they try to attach the gear grind philosophy that is used for Raiding and PvE. PvP should always be about skill, and strategy used to complete objectives and beat your opponent. Making PvP a gear grind, is counter productive to what PvP should be.

 

Good PvP in an MMO either uses sheer volume of players to try balance things out, and makes the game about objectives not just killing the other openent. This is what normally is done for world PvP since it is hard to regulate gear and states in the open world. In instances PvP the normalize things and put everyone on the same ground. Rewards become cosmetic instead of a gear grind.

[Ferretstalker]

Maybe.

 

Unranked WZ gear is very cheap and will get you to 2018 expertise with little fuss (as every PvPer in the endgame knows). On the flip side, there's a large audience who sees expertise and cringes. With class-specific stats gone and Mastery having been implemented, Expertise now feels redundant. I wouldn't be opposed to merging the PvE and PvP grind into one so players can experience all content on an equal footing (provided they put the time in one way or the other), but it would need to be balanced with bolster and such.

[Lord_Iurus]

Yes, I would PVP more if I didn't need to build up a whole second set of gear independent of my Ops gear.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Current gearing for PVP in PVE gear works as follows -

 

For lvl 60-65 players

 

You can wear a maximum of 190 lvl PVE gear to maximise bolster and expertise... "If" you wear anything over this you will lose expertise, the higher the gear, the more you lose... So "do not wear" epic PVE gear in PVP... Just wear the green 190 items you can get from the fleet vendors

By wearing gear up to 190 and having every slot filled you will get 1936 expertise... This will give you stats slightly below entry lvl PVP gear... And you won't have set bonuses... But this is how all of us pvpers start out and gear up

Obviously the first thing you want to spend your Comms on is weapons so you can get 2018 expertise as weapon crystals do not calculate expertise and aren't included in the equation. This is why you can only get 1936 expertise in PVE gear now ***Note - do not put expertise crystals in PVE weapons, this does not work and will reduce stats as well as expertise ***

My path to gearing up as I get PVP Comms is as follows -

*PVP Weapons (make sure you equipe expertise crystals)

*2-4 pieces of Armor to start out your set bonus... Belts and wrists are the 2 cheapest to start this with

*2 relics

*2 more pieces of Armor to complete your set bonus (you only need 6 out of 7 to do this)

*then you can get ear and implants

*last piece of Armor (number 7)... ** note, you don't need to use a piece from the same set if you don't want to... This allows you to use one of the other Armor pieces from the same vendor if you want slightly different stats to min/max

 

Next post for pre 60

 

.

 

See it's reading things like that that puts me off PVP to be honest. I just want to join, fight, do my role and no I'm not being held back because of some stupid gear setup or something I didn't get right or understand correctly.

 

No more PVP gear = PVP population doubling at least imo.

 

Where do I get my numbers from? The amount of people here saying they would PVP if you removed expertise ... it would be even cooler if you removed gear altogether.

 

Someone should make a poll like the companion one because those are factual evidence of what the community wants apparently.

[Deyjarl]

vanilla wow identified the issue with not having a "pvp stat". the best raiders then dominate pvp.

 

only if gear is relevant to pvp. Make it irrelevant, and the PvE raiders can raid all they want, it won't matter to pvp

[Icykill_]

See it's reading things like that that puts me off PVP to be honest. I just want to join, fight, do my role and no I'm not being held back because of some stupid gear setup or something I didn't get right or understand correctly.

 

No more PVP gear = PVP population doubling at least imo.

 

Where do I get my numbers from? The amount of people here saying they would PVP if you removed expertise ... it would be even cooler if you removed gear altogether.

 

Someone should make a poll like the companion one because those are factual evidence of what the community wants apparently.

 

Wait... Sorry... What's so hard about wearing green 190 gear to PVP in?... It's so cheap or youve picked up already doing the story..

Also it's an MMO or was... It's not console... Part of the game is about gearing... Can you tell me you aren't going to PVE because you might have to gear..... Of course you aren't or you wouldn't even be playing the game...

 

By having no PVP gear you are basically giving everyone who prefers to play ops and collect high lvl gear a massive advantage over PVP people who hate ops and only want to PVP... Now if you want to give us access to that same gear you get at high lvl ops and remove PVP gear, I'm all for that... I've advocated that for years... But the Devs want you to grind gear,,, they also don't want PVE people taking the easy path by pvping to getting gear...

 

And now that youve read my original post out lining how to gear and how absolutely easy it is... If you can't be bothered to do that you shouldn't PVP at all... The same as you shouldnt play OPs if you aren't willing to gear up for them.. Now I don't know if you play OPs or Flash Points... I don't know if you just joined the game to play the story... Regardless... If you can't be bothered to do the most simplest things to play all the games features, then those parts of the game aren't for you... My post was a positive post to help new people understand how to gear and how EASY IT IS... I don't appreciate you making my post look like its a bad thing to do

[Tfranco]

No because pvp gear would become useless compared to pve gear, which would mean I have to pve to be competitive. I don't pve.

 

There is nothing wrong with expertise. The only people who don't like it are the ones getting killed on pvp servers in pve daily zones.

[imissleeches]

If stats do not matter at all, then no I would not advocate for removal (no stat customization).

 

What "customization"? Both PvE and PvP have one thing in common: 99.01% population will read a top rated guide and follow the optimal build to the letter. In the grim numberness of the end game content, there are only numbers. Where basic math like this is involved, there is always one right answer.

Edited November 3, 2015 by imissleeches

[ZeroTypeR]

I only pvp to complete WZ quests or farm WZ comms. Other than those 2 things, I really don't care about pvp. Expertise isn't a issue for me since there's a expertise buff given in WZ, not as much as stackers, but enough to be competitive.

[Max_Killjoy]

No because pvp gear would become useless compared to pve gear, which would mean I have to pve to be competitive. I don't pve.

 

Are you assuming that without Expertise, there would be no gear or comms from PvP that would be equal to the highest "tiers" of PvE-obtained gear?

Edited November 3, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Icykill_]

What "customization"? Both PvE and PvP have one thing in common: 99.01% population will read a top rated guide and follow the optimal build to the letter. In the grim numberness of the end game content, there are only numbers. Where basic math like this is involved, there is always one right answer.

 

Lots of PVP people do customise their stats for their style of game play because the Devs have some weird ideas about what stats actually work or are needed in PVP... We also have mod and enhance vendors to do this... I'm not sure about PVE, but I don't think that is an option?... I think you need to grind gear pieces and then swap if you want to... I know I wouldn't do that as it would be painful... But it's extremely easy to do in PVP and that's why a lot of people do it... Definitely more 0.99%... If I had to gues I would say at least 50% of pvpers do it, if not more... Of course you don't have too and can just run the gear they give you or go to one of those guides you mentioned... But PVP isn't so black and white... Some people have completely different styles of playing the same class, so gear for that, I know I rarely follow those guides... I might reference them to see what they think... But rarely do I think they are right

[sentientomega]

Ok, the best PVP system, in my biased and unqualified opinion would be set up as follows....think Battlefront.

 

You have a toon that is separate from your current toon. It is a generic soldier. You also have a temporary ability bar and you are stripped of ALL of your gear and bonuses.

 

You play, you kill, you gain in rank. Every death costs you a portion of rank, every kill increases your rank more substantially than losses.

 

At some point you do so well you gain the ability to actually unlock your toon as a "god mode", with all the abilities present....no gear boosts mind you, just the abilities. Think the "jedi mode" in Battlefront.

 

This would make playing with your characters special because they would be treated as the "gods" on the battlefield. Once your character dies, you go back to the generic toon and have to build up your victories again to unlock it once more.

 

The rewards are overall rank, naturally...which changes based on individual kills and deaths, along with victories overall, and that rank sets you closer to the character unlock. The top ten players would always start with their characters on the field.

 

The rewards would be special cosmetic gear that would NEVER be available to other players, and other sets of cosmetics (including gear) that would be locked out from PVE player use for a set period of time.

 

Also, the top ten players on each server would gain a special rank and icon displayed for all in the game to see. Something like "GENERAL so and so" or "JEDI MASTER so and so" and a champion portrait and icon.

 

The SPECIAL reward that would actually boost participation IMO would be to provide Cartel Coins as rewards.

 

I would be a lot happier if PvP was like this, like GSF, only much easier, since we'd be controlling generic soldiers, or Force-sensitives, and our own characters would be insulated from player attacks in a WZ. Given that PvP WZs are considerably easier than GSF, I think it'd be a really popular option, for all the right kind of players, as it would reward based on merit.

 

I do think there are more appropriate rewards to attach to PvP content, than companions though. If not, then frankly, we should be able to buy Valour 40 for CCs, in addition to being able to PvP for them, or get pick the 40 Valour response if we had been PvPing all the while before meeting those two comps on the capital worlds, but have it show when we're inspected that we bought that much Valour for the cartel coins, so people know we didn't get it PvPing, then if we do PvP, it'll show how much Valour has been gained the old-fashioned way. Such an option should be expensive, around 4-5000 CCs. It would show something like this: 40: CC Purchase, X points of Y Valour rank: PvP Participation.

 

But, to answer the OP's question; yes, I would PvP if we were all on a more-or-less level playing field.

 

Wait... Sorry... What's so hard about wearing green 190 gear to PVP in?... It's so cheap or youve picked up already doing the story..

Also it's an MMO or was... It's not console... Part of the game is about gearing... Can you tell me you aren't going to PVE because you might have to gear..... Of course you aren't or you wouldn't even be playing the game...

 

By having no PVP gear you are basically giving everyone who prefers to play ops and collect high lvl gear a massive advantage over PVP people who hate ops and only want to PVP... Now if you want to give us access to that same gear you get at high lvl ops and remove PVP gear, I'm all for that... I've advocated that for years... But the Devs want you to grind gear,,, they also don't want PVE people taking the easy path by pvping to getting gear...

 

And now that youve read my original post out lining how to gear and how absolutely easy it is... If you can't be bothered to do that you shouldn't PVP at all... The same as you shouldnt play OPs if you aren't willing to gear up for them.. Now I don't know if you play OPs or Flash Points... I don't know if you just joined the game to play the story... Regardless... If you can't be bothered to do the most simplest things to play all the games features, then those parts of the game aren't for you... My post was a positive post to help new people understand how to gear and how EASY IT IS... I don't appreciate you making my post look like its a bad thing to do

 

Then make the higher PvP tiers cost more, or something else that matches the equivalency of different crystal-purchasable gear, anyway, as I understand it, PvP 208s require tokens as well as comms, am I not right?

Edited November 3, 2015 by sentientomega

[DomiSotto]

The token is simply the shell of your T1 armor.

 

Lots of PVP people do customise their stats for their style of game play because the Devs have some weird ideas about what stats actually work or are needed in PVP... We also have mod and enhance vendors to do this... I'm not sure about PVE, but I don't think that is an option?... I think you need to grind gear pieces and then swap if you want to... I know I wouldn't do that as it would be painful...

 

Nah, because set bonus is attached to the armoring only, you can buy pieces to pull mod/enh out for comms or pull them from the free non-set-bonus drops you get in the ops (and FPs, I assume). It's still not as good as PvP gearing, but not as painful as it used to be.

[Danylia]

No. Expertise isn't the reason why I don't play PVP.

[LadyVix]

Non-PVPers don't avoid PVP because of gear issues, they avoid PVP because they're afraid. Gearing is irrelevant.

[HarleysRule]

No. I like open world, objective based PvP like DAoC. A 5-10 minute instanced PvP where it doesn't matter if you win or lose because the outcome has no impact doesn't appeal to me. Huttball in particular annoys me. Random ganking in the few OWPvP zones of people trying to do PvE content doesn't interest me.

 

Expertise is a terrible idea, though.

[Malox]

If they had it where gear and stats didn't matter and it was based on skill rather than pure numbers then pvp would actually be fun to me. But until that happens I will never do pvp willingly.

[TUXs]

See it's reading things like that that puts me off PVP to be honest. I just want to join, fight, do my role and no I'm not being held back because of some stupid gear setup or something I didn't get right or understand correctly.

 

No more PVP gear = PVP population doubling at least imo.

I'll be dammed...we agree on something

 

How many people are like you? They'd do it if they could just dabble in it...nothing "serious", but like 1-2 WZ's every other week or so, before the rest of their guild is online...but right now, you need to have the gear or you're fodder. Bolster should alleviate that, but we all know it doesn't.

 

And also...inventory space is a premium, not everyone wants to carry a full 2nd set of armor for something they want to dabble in 2 times a month.

 

Wait... Sorry... What's so hard about wearing green 190 gear to PVP in?... It's so cheap or youve picked up already doing the story..

Nobody is claiming it's "hard"...it's simply STUPID Icykill.

 

It's 100% counter intuitive to anything anyone would expect. Why on earth would someone keep poor level 60 gear, when they're 65 now, and expect that to be what they should PvP in? How does that may ANY sense at all? It doesn't...none. If you were going to PvE for the 1st time, what would you wear? Your old Battlemaster PvP gear? Of course not...Bolster punishes common sense.

 

Bolster is BROKEN! The only people who give a flip about 190 gear, ALREADY HAVE their PvP gear. Someone new to the game sure as hell isn't going to expect that, at level 65, his level 60 gear should be kept for end game PvP dabbling...how dumb of a system is this?! Bolster needs to be simplified...if not one of the 2 current PvP sets, apply flat stats based on the players selected role. Period!!! Just like descaling works. Flat stats if not in the newest PvP gear. Couldn't be any more simple to fix.

[TUXs]

Non-PVPers don't avoid PVP because of gear issues, they avoid PVP because they're afraid. Gearing is irrelevant.

 

I disagree. Expertise presents a hurdle to trying it and Expertise also presents a massive disadvantage if you don't have it. There's NOTHING positive for PvP, that comes from Expertise. It does nothing but turn away new players.

[SentinelDranoel]

Yes. I farmed pvp gear one too many years and it has gotten old. Max level is where the challenge is at but it is also where the headaches is at. Having to waste time in uneven battles just to get a piece of gear is fine until the level cap is moved again. I have done it one to many times.

[Drudenfusz]

Yes/No - simple question and answer really. I'm just curious if this is a reason why many folk here don't PvP or would like to try it but lack of gear worries them.

Depends, if I can get through PvP gear that is equal to the best raiding gear, then sure drop the expertise stat, if not, and raiders would suddenly the the best PvP players because of their gear advantage, well then we have an issue and I would not only stop playing PvP but the game in general.

[MillionsKNives]

snip

 

I look at this and see a big post of not-worth-my-time.

 

I can understand the concept of my gear not being good enough. Then I would have to get better gear, which would actually be a benefit for me in all areas of the game. But the idea that my gear is too good is just stupid. I'm not going to find some "optimal" bad gear to wear based on some idiotic formula just to play in a portion of the game that I have no desire to dedicate extra time to.

 

In fact I even tried it once. I got all of the "optimal" crappy mods and stuck it in some extra set of gear I found, put it all on and I felt like I was performing even worse despite supposedly being the best for non-PVP gear. Probably because I didn't augment any of this second set. And then after thinking that I'd have to go now and augment this crap I just stopped doing what little PVP I already did. I haven't done any since, because it's just so offputting.

[MillionsKNives]

I disagree. Expertise presents a hurdle to trying it and Expertise also presents a massive disadvantage if you don't have it. There's NOTHING positive for PvP, that comes from Expertise. It does nothing but turn away new players.

 

I think separating the PVP and PVE gear is a positive. The gear acquisition is just too uneven to really have them both reward the same stuff. We'll be back at PVE players feeling like they need to PVP in order to get gear. I could get the second best relic just by doing a few days of PVP instead of waiting weeks to get it through PVE. I just think everything about the actual implementation of it all sucks.

[Aries_cz]

Yes, PvP should be about skill, not gear.