EnkiduNineEight Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) I understand you just redid companions. I understand as well that people like their ability to shift roles. But I believe that there exists great room in improving on them even more. People have many comments about companiosn presently. Some argue they are too powerful, some argue they were too powerful before 4.0 as well, some say they are just right, Some miss having to equip their companions, some don't, etc. I'd like to take a stab at suggesting a system that merges many of these ideas into something that would be more accommodating of everyone's views and result in a 'better companion experience for the greatest majority of players. First: Addressing Companion Roles. The ability to change a companions role is a good idea. It allows the players much more flexibility. The system used though removed from companions a lot of their uniqueness. Now every companion is essentially the same as any other companion with the same weapon type equipped. This diminishes many of the companions most especially companions like Treek who now are probably the least optimal companion to use. I would suggest the following change: Each companion remains a 'specialist' in their original role. For eample. Khem would still be a Specialist tank. This means Khem _retains_ his original skill set as it was prior to 4.0 when he is set to tanking. This is what he is best at, this is what he excels at. Each companion also retains the ability to switch their roles. This works much as it does now. You choose their role and they get a generic ability set for that role based on the weapon they are equipped with. They perform this role at 85-90% the efficiency of a 'Specialist' in that role. (This would be modified by Influence Rank and Equipment.. see below) Companions like 'Treek' (or any later companion gained) might have 'dual' roles... So No matter if you put Treek in 'Tank' or 'Heal' stance, she would use her _original_ set of skills, and only in DPS stance would she use the 'generic' non-specialist skillset. This allows each of our companions to retain the things that made them special. It makes each of them have something that they do better than everyone else and in which they will perform best when being used. The player isn't forced to work though with a companion whose role doesn't suit their needs as they advance through the story because they can turn a Tank Specialist into a Heal generalist as has been added in 4.0 and they will work adequately in that role. We thus get the 'best of both worlds' of Pre and Post 4.0. Second: Addressing Companion Influence (its gain and effects) Primary here would be addressing the inequity that now exists as some companions do not have any 'Gift' categories in which they will receive maximum affections. I would suggest a swiftly enacted 'Balance Pass' for companions that ensures that every companion has at least one category of gifts that will give them the maximum affection when provided to them. Otherwise you have examples where a player choosing to play a class will find that they are significantly disadvantaged in terms of the cost/effort to raise a companions Influence while other classes have no issues at all. It creates an economic disparity/time and effort disparity etc based on your initial character choice and that's poor design. Just fix this. Secondary would be to look at how 'Influence' rank affects the power of a companion. I think we have room for tuning here and also a method to emphasise that companions have specialist roles. I wont get down to nitty gritty on numbers or specific attributes, but just present this in a broad outline. Using Khem again as an example. As a specialist tank, your influence on Khem should benefit this aspect of his skills the most. Your influence rank then should add to his stats in such a way as to make him a great tank. I would suggest that perhaps you only receive the full value of your influence rank when the companion is set to their natural/specialist role. I would then provide, for example, say only 90% of their rank on their 'secondary' role. In Khem's case, this would likely be DPS. And then for their 'Tertiary' role they get only 80% of their influences effectiveness. So while Khem could be set for healing, and it would do in those few instances when you are forced to use khem but you really need a healer, he would not be the optimal healer for you. Its still good enough that it will work, but it will still be more challenging than using a 'Native' healer. First: Addressing Companion Outfitting. Personally I am put off that this aspect of the game has been so cheapened and made so easy. I understand as well though that it was not necessarily a fully enjoyable game experience for other players. Prior to 4.0 though a player could choose to spend the time and effort to gear a companion to make them truly formidable. Now, you just login and your companion is truly formidable. I believe there is room for some middle ground where Companions can be made tougher by equipping them, but where they already have some value and are more than capable without having to change their equipment and tailor it stat by stat. This needs to be done in such a way as to maintain the ability to change their cosmetic appearance easily as well, because this is a really great addition to companions in 4.0. By stripping them of the need to equip them for stats, you've made it cheaper/easier t dress them up however we want to. What I would suggest is returning to companions some of the inventory slots that were removed prior (Earpiece, Implants) and using these three equipment slots for a new category of equipment. EACH companion would come with a set of these three items, say in 'green' quality and would just be titled '<Companion>'s Earpiece' or '<Companion>'s Primary Implant' or '<Companion>'s Secondary Implant'. EG: 'Khem's Earpiece' or 'Khem's Primary Implant', etc.... These equipment items are considered the standard and keep the companion acting as they would in any normal case. Then add specific drops that can be used by _any_ companion, but are not named. So they are just <Type> Earpiece, <type> Primary Implant, <Type> secondary Implant. And these drop in various qualities, so Green, Blue, or Purple. These Companion Equipment drops gives bonuses to stats based on their 'Type' and their 'Quality'. So green items provide lesser bonus than purple. But they are not 'leveled' so you do not need to replace them constantly. if you find a an Artifact Quality piece at level 10, it will continue to provide a level appropriate bonus all the way through 65 and beyond for your companion. The 'Types' would be something along the lines of the following: Healers Earpiece, Primary or Secondary Implant - Healing Companion Equipment provides a bonus to their healing appropriate to their level/influence rank and made better by the item quality. Protectors (Earpiece, etc) - Protector Companion Equipment adds bonuses appropriate to their level, influence rank, etc for tanking tpe abilities. Inflictors (or whatever you want to call it) - Adds bonuses appropriate to their level/influence rank and item quality to the companions DPS skills. Universal *Earpiece, Implant, etc) - Adds a sligjhtly smaller bonus than a specialist piece, but it works for ANY stance. It is basically like the 'green' set the companion arrives with but because it can be Blue or Purple in quality would be an upgrade. These could all be mixed and matched, so you could try to optimize your companion for healing (even if they were a tank specialist) by outfitting them with all artifact quality 'Healer's' companion gear or you could mix and match them and just use the best item you have found so far in each slot. This gives the players some semblance of control over how well their companions perform. it gives players an incentive to find these items as drops/loot from doing content. It gives players a sense of increased accomplishment as they make their companions more and more formidable through their acquisitions. My recommendation would be that having Artifact Quality gear (a full set of the same role) should bring up a companion with a 'tertiary' role to being equivalent to an unaugmented companion with that role as primary. For Example: Khem is a 'tertiary' healer. because of this his influence rank provides less of a bonus to healing skills. But, were you to outfit Khem in full 'Healers' artifact quality equipment he would become equivalent to a Primary Healer (Say.. mako) without any equipment. So they can be quite formidable even outside their normal role, you just have to put a small amount of work into it. Mako, with full healer artifact gear would be even better, which is a bonus/incentive for players to try to outfit their companions. These items _should not_ be for sale at any vendor expect perhaps only the 'green' tier. They should only drop from Tactical (blue) and HM/OPS/Major Storyline Quests(Artifact/purple) Summary Companions maintain the best aspects of the new system from 4.0 in that they can act in any specific role the player needs but this is modified so that each companion maintains some uniqueness of character. A 'Tank' companion will perform best as a tank but will still be an adequate healer. Adding Equipment they could equip to increase their effectiveness at a role by using the Earpiece, and Implant Slots, gives players more ability to customize their companions to their game play style. Someone who _really loves_ a Tank companion, but feels they want to use them as a Healer frequently and doesn't want them to be disadvantaged in their non specialist role can equip the companion so that their healing efficacy is increased while leaving their tanking ability static. OR they can mix and match even as the situation demands by only keeping a few extra things in their inventory. Leveling the play experience for all companions by ensuring that each companion has a gift type that provides them maximum influence just makes the game more 'fair' for those class choices you might make in a vacuum when first starting the game. It is unfair to players who choose Sith Inquisitor to find out later they will have to spend more than 10 times the number of gifts to raise their companions influence to max than any other companion for any other class. I understand the 'story' reason for the mechanics, but these story reasons can be told _in the story_ and do not need the absolute inclusion of a game mechanic to re-enforce it especially when influence has been chanced from a 10,000 point cap to a 250,000 point cap. I believe a system like this contains the best of both Pre and Post 4.0. companions can take any role, but they are best at one. Companions regain their uniqueness that was wiped out in 4.0 sine they use their 'initial' skillset when they are in their primary role but default to the generic skillset when in an 'off' role. They can be customized and made more powerful, so that their handicaps by acting in an 'off' role can be eliminated but a companion whose Primary role is enhanced is always going to be the absolute 'Best' at that role. Players retain flexibility, gain customization, and companions are more Unique and Special again, instead of being carbon copies of skill sets based on weapon equipped. Edited October 31, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight
Unchosen Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) If you want BioWare to consider your suggestions you should try to just get to the point. If an idea is good you don't have to over-explain it. Edited October 31, 2015 by Unchosen
EnkiduNineEight Posted October 31, 2015 Author Posted October 31, 2015 If you want BioWare to consider your suggestions you should try to just get to the point. If an idea is good you don't have to over-explain it. Couldn't you have just replied tl;dr instead of over explaining?
Muljo_Stpho Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) First: Addressing Companion Roles. The ability to change a companions role is a good idea. It allows the players much more flexibility. The system used though removed from companions a lot of their uniqueness. Now every companion is essentially the same as any other companion with the same weapon type equipped. This diminishes many of the companions most especially companions like Treek who now are probably the least optimal companion to use. I would suggest the following change: Each companion remains a 'specialist' in their original role. For eample. Khem would still be a Specialist tank. This means Khem _retains_ his original skill set as it was prior to 4.0 when he is set to tanking. This is what he is best at, this is what he excels at. Each companion also retains the ability to switch their roles. This works much as it does now. You choose their role and they get a generic ability set for that role based on the weapon they are equipped with. They perform this role at 85-90% the efficiency of a 'Specialist' in that role. (This would be modified by Influence Rank and Equipment.. see below) Companions like 'Treek' (or any later companion gained) might have 'dual' roles... So No matter if you put Treek in 'Tank' or 'Heal' stance, she would use her _original_ set of skills, and only in DPS stance would she use the 'generic' non-specialist skillset. This allows each of our companions to retain the things that made them special. It makes each of them have something that they do better than everyone else and in which they will perform best when being used. The player isn't forced to work though with a companion whose role doesn't suit their needs as they advance through the story because they can turn a Tank Specialist into a Heal generalist as has been added in 4.0 and they will work adequately in that role. We thus get the 'best of both worlds' of Pre and Post 4.0. I've made a few posts trying to brainstorm tweaks / additions that would address this as well but I think you've worded it simpler and more elegantly than whatever I was thinking of. My thoughts were more along the lines of: 1) They don't need to ONLY have options that read "tank, damage, or heals". They could have other options like "classic mode" or something like that. (Same basic thought as you but I pictured it as a 4th option alongside the 3 generic options.) Or to put it in your terms, Khem Val would have a second tank option labeled as "Tanking Specialist - Khem Val" or something like that. 2) Even the generic options should specify more than just "tank, damage, or heals". Damage and heals in particular can be given descriptors that specify whether a spec focuses on instant, channeled, delayed (activation time), or timed (effect over time) abilities as well as whether it focuses on single target or area abilities. (Tanks probably wouldn't get that specific, but maybe they could have at least have versions with and without pushes/pulls.) So for each weapon type there would be multiple possibilities for exactly which generic moveset a companion could have in each role. Maybe this rifle companion gets "Rifle Instant Area Damage" as an option while that rifle companion gets "Rifle Timed Targeted Damage" as an option. In this way, there can be variety even among the generic cookie cutter movesets. Companions that carry the same type of weapon don't need to do everything the same exact way. 3) Why the crap are blaster rifles and sniper rifles interchangeable and using the same moveset? Split them up. Make them different. (edit: Although point number 2 could sort of address this if the options change with the equipped weapon. So maybe something like "Delayed Targeted Damage" (activation time, single target) only shows up for sniper rifles while blaster rifles will get one of the other possibilities.) 4) Or as an alternative to giving each companion 4 or more movesets to choose from, instead of giving them the option of their original movesets more or less unaltered, my thought to more directly work within the framework of the new system would be to make use of the unused companion quickbar slots (these generic movesets only use up about 8 slots including the 2 for attack and passive, which leaves 4 slots unused) for a few of the more iconic moves from their original movesets. There could be overlap between which original moves are available alongside each role's generic moves (meaning that they have abilities unique to them that they can use in any role). The idea in point number 4 would mean that the companions retain at least some of their original sense of uniqueness even while focusing on a generic moveset. If they instead opt for original movesets as a 4th option like I describe in point number 1 or as a replacement for the corresponding generic option like in your idea, companions only retain their original sense of uniqueness in that specific role. Any of those options would stick to the new paradigm of allowing companions to be really flexible in their role though. Nice ideas in the rest of your post as well. Going beyond your comments into something else though, while influence obviously can have a huge impact through the presence bonus they've added (rank 10 = enough bonus to almost double the previously possible bonus, rank 50 = brings us up to around six times as much as the previously possible bonus) it doesn't seem as if influence alone can account for the huge amount of health that companions can have now. Also, from the rare few non-ragey / actually insightful comments in the massive "overpowered companions" rant topics it does sound like there could be some hidden issue in whatever their methods are for allocating companion stats automatically, possibly something to do with how it interacts with (or relies upon?) level sync. (Apparently there's something about companions not having shield chance in tank stance when a sync is not active on you. And I also hear that they don't get any damage reduction in any role when there's no level sync. So when you're not synced (like when you're doing the Star Fortress stuff) they can actually crumble pretty easily if they get beat up by a few strong enemies.) Edited October 31, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho
EnkiduNineEight Posted October 31, 2015 Author Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Awesome, thanks for your thoughtful reply. I would welcome additional 'generic' sub categories. I think it would be fun to be able to say exactly what type of DPS I want the companion to focus on. EG, I want you to be an AOE or Single Target, DPS comp etc. I purposefully kept the suggestion though to the 'basic' trinity because I thought as well Bioware would want simplicity, ease of understanding for the new/casual target audience etc. Tough I hadn't mentioned it, we could, as a 'more advanced' player make these specific choices about narrowing their specialty further by selecting or de-slecting abilities from their companion skills bar. If each 'generic' skill set includes just one or two more potential abilities to chose from even if they were just mutually exclusive 'stances' players could be given more flexibility to how the companion plays. For me it was a choice of simplicity and synthesis. Use what we already had, add to it the best of the new system, and players get a companion that is still unique and fun but also can be used in any situation, though at slightly reduced effectiveness that with a little work and effort over time you can reduce that gap in effectiveness if that's your desire. On top of all these suggestions I should have mentioned as well that some basic work needs to be done to cleanup bugs like Shield proc's etc. as has been identified in other threads. Edited October 31, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight
Merwanor Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 I like the way companions work now way more than how it was. Especially now that they don't have any stats or anything like that. If you introduced new items you would again make it a chore. For an example. I get a better healer implant for one companion. But I want to use a different companion, but I also want that companion to work at optimal efficiency. Then I have to unequip the item from the previous companion and equip the items on the new companion. This is just annoying busy work that is not even remotely fun or interesting.
EnkiduNineEight Posted November 1, 2015 Author Posted November 1, 2015 I like the way companions work now way more than how it was. Especially now that they don't have any stats or anything like that. If you introduced new items you would again make it a chore. For an example. I get a better healer implant for one companion. But I want to use a different companion, but I also want that companion to work at optimal efficiency. Then I have to unequip the item from the previous companion and equip the items on the new companion. This is just annoying busy work that is not even remotely fun or interesting. I'm glad you do. I like the aspect that they can shift roles too. I recognize as well though that I and others miss the 'uniqueness' companions had prior to the change. Can you explain how having each companionhave their 'primary' skillset match their prior skills, and their 'off roles' being the new skills would lessen your enjoyment of the game or remove from companions the ability to fulfill all three roles in the 'trinity' as they do now after 4.0? So, companions having relatively easy to acquire companion gear drops that allow you further customization options is too onerous for game play? Even though each companioncomes with their own set and they wouild be balnacedto work 'just fine' with these basic items but could be made to specialise _if you desired_ into being slightly more efficient (blue) or more efficient (purple) at their various roles? If indeed the game comes down to being every character is a carbon copy, and there are removed all aspects of RPG from the game, there is really no reason for a great number of the current subscriber base to continue paying. I am failing to see how a system that gives you what you want (your gameplay is only marginally affected but still works almost entirely like it does presently with 4.0) but also gives options to people who missed the 'deeper' experience of a RPG and companion gearing is a problem. For me, I would prefer that the game not devolve into being clicking one of a set of text box answers in between watching my companions fight for me.
Muljo_Stpho Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) I think the complaint was only with the gear suggestion, not anything to do with the idea to bring back the original movesets as an option. On the gearing note though... I could see as a compromise the introduction of a generic page that acts as a modifier for all companions. This would be a new tab. So when you bring up the character sheet there would be tabs for your character's gear/costumes, your current companion's costume, your class ship's gear, and your crew trinket sheet. The trinket sheet would stay the same no matter which companion you have out, just like the ship gear does. This sheet could have a line of slots for tank trinkets, a line of slots for damage trinkets, and a line of slots for heal trinkets. (Only the line that matches the current companion's current role will have any effect.) So on each line of trinkets, there would be some number of slots available. (How many and of what types? Debatable. Up to the devs to work that out.) I think there would be one or two trinkets within each line labeled as a core trinket or as the primary and secondary trinkets. This could throttle the automated scaling of companion stats for that role. So maybe the description might say something about "allows companion <role> stats to scale to your level up to a maximum item rating of N" and there could be options to pick up spread throughout the game so that you can upgrade and control the target gear rating that the system will be using for companion stat allocation. I picture other trinkets after that one functioning more like relics with automatic effects. So maybe there are two trinket relic slots within each line. We might see tank trinket relics with proc effects that can boost defense, shield, or absorb. We might see damage trinket relics with proc effects that can boost mastery, power, crit, or accuracy. And we might see heal trinket relics with proc effects that can boost mastery, power, crit, or alacrity. Plus whatever other types of bonuses they can make trinket relics for, like the relics we have for a chance at a bit of extra damage or healing dealt. And all of these would also be available in many different levels so we can upgrade and control the bonuses that we're putting on our companions. Some of these upgrades could be added to class mission rewards (always given, not offered as a "pick one" option) so that new characters get them naturally as they progress through the game, but of course these would only be the green quality items for the basics to get by. Trinket vendors could be added to the game to sell the blue and purple versions for various amounts of crystals. (And I suppose they'd also have the greens, just because.) Something along those lines would capture what you were suggesting for companion "gearing" while also keeping it minimal. Those three (or four) trinkets for a role would affect the stats and effectiveness of every companion that you set in that role. (Would it also be possible to augment the trinkets and would the companions gain those few points extra on top of what gets allocated to them automatically?) Hmmm... jumping off from that idea.... Now I'm also picturing that new companion sheet featuring a slot for every mainhand and offhand type. The weapon equipped to a companion on their gear sheet can control the appearance of their weapon, but the game would actually set the maximum stats for their mainhand and offhand according to what's equipped on the appropriate type of item on the combined companion sheet. (The stats allocated according to the effective core trinket would not cover mainhand and offhand stats. It would only cover the stats that would be on armor, earpiece, and implants. (Or if it's two items, the primary trinket would correspond to head, chest, legs, hands, and feet stats while the secondary trinket would correspond to wrist, waist, earpiece, and both implant stats.)) Or to keep it even simpler than that, there could just be slots for tech mainhand weapon trinket, tech offhand weapon trinket, tech offhand power generator trinket, tech offhand shield generator trinket, force mainhand weapon trinket, force offhand weapon trinket, force offhand focus trinket, and force offhand shield generator trinket. (So for example all mainhand guns, techblades, and techstaves for companions are covered by the stats equipped on the tech mainhand weapon trinket instead of having separate slots for pistol, rifle, sniper, cannon, etc.) Another thought, for those core (or primary/secondary) trinkets maybe there could also be variants at the same item rating that differ in how they allocate stats. Use the same type of names as on mods / enhancements to get the message across. Words like "adept" or "quick savant" to indicate what type of stat distribution will be allocated. Edited November 1, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho
EnkiduNineEight Posted November 1, 2015 Author Posted November 1, 2015 That's an option. I was trying to keep things simple and not add too much extra, so figured using the exisiting companion screen as it was prior would work since its just putting three items back on each companion. I would personally prefer much more complexity and the ability to customize my companions stats but that is not going to happen.
dscount Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 I just want them to UN-BORK the companions you married as well the gifts not working. PLUS.. remove the stupid 250k requirement. This is just plain silly.
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