KotFE Finally Resolves SW:TOR's Identity Crisis!

[CelCawdro]

Like many, I'm one of those people that pops back into the game whenever significant content is released. Shortly thereafter, I drift back into disinterest. I played vehemently at release, with many of my friends, but eventually, one by one, they stopped playing. They went back to other games, explored new ones. And why was this? On paper, SW:TOR ticked all the boxes required for a game trying to compete with the industry standard. I've always maintained that this is precisely why interest in SW:TOR waned so quickly: there was a focus on simply checking those boxes.

 

Unfortunately for SW:TOR, banking their success on checking as many boxes as possible was a doomed endeavour. Content was rushed, and it showed. BioWare continually attempted to shore up their game in order to make sure that they catered to as many possible demographics as possible, and the result was a game that wasn't really made for anyone. It took elements from other games, put their mediocre spin on it, and hoped for the best.

 

In beta, the focus was on story in every single way. Post-release? Raiding content - too much raiding content. People experienced the greatest storytelling available in the genre for 50 levels, then it was back to the "raid or die" mentality that every other MMO does and, quite frankly, many do better. And that's a problem with much of SW:TOR's feature list - it's simply done better elsewhere. Eventually, the game is being developed to cater to the playerbases of other games instead of its own fervent followers.

 

This is why this expansion gives me hope. SW:TOR has spent the past couple years drifting back and forth, trying to latch onto something that would give it a little focus, all the while ignoring the obvious solution - story is what makes this game unique in the genre. Story is what hooked people. Story could have been what kept people. And hopefully, story is what is going to bring many players back.

 

Many of my friends are returning already, many of whom had written the game off entirely. Anecdotal, yes, but that means something to me, at least. People who loved the game at release before becoming underwhelmed in subsequent months are very excited to get their fill of BioWare storytelling and, for the first time, we know that more is coming on a regular basis. The other aspects of the game are competent appetizers, but all of that is pointless if there is no main course. There is finally something to look forward to - something uniquely BioWare, and something that cannot be found elsewhere.

 

I'm rambling, so TL;DR: BioWare is finally playing to its key strength, and I believe that bodes very well for the future of this game.

 

All that being said, I also realize that this isn't going to please everyone, especially those who were sated by SW:TOR's operations and PvP offerings. And I realize you guys have been getting the shaft for a while, as BioWare bounced from this concept to that, but I also believe that, now that they've (hopefully) settled on a clear direction, they can finally start paying more attention to areas that haven't received much love in the past while.

[ThomasTheBeige]

[DELETE]

Wrong thread.

Edited October 29, 2015 by ThomasTheBeige

[ZionHalcyon]

Like many, I'm one of those people that pops back into the game whenever significant content is released. Shortly thereafter, I drift back into disinterest. I played vehemently at release, with many of my friends, but eventually, one by one, they stopped playing. They went back to other games, explored new ones. And why was this? On paper, SW:TOR ticked all the boxes required for a game trying to compete with the industry standard. I've always maintained that this is precisely why interest in SW:TOR waned so quickly: there was a focus on simply checking those boxes.

 

Unfortunately for SW:TOR, banking their success on checking as many boxes as possible was a doomed endeavour. Content was rushed, and it showed. BioWare continually attempted to shore up their game in order to make sure that they catered to as many possible demographics as possible, and the result was a game that wasn't really made for anyone. It took elements from other games, put their mediocre spin on it, and hoped for the best.

 

In beta, the focus was on story in every single way. Post-release? Raiding content - too much raiding content. People experienced the greatest storytelling available in the genre for 50 levels, then it was back to the "raid or die" mentality that every other MMO does and, quite frankly, many do better. And that's a problem with much of SW:TOR's feature list - it's simply done better elsewhere. Eventually, the game is being developed to cater to the playerbases of other games instead of its own fervent followers.

 

This is why this expansion gives me hope. SW:TOR has spent the past couple years drifting back and forth, trying to latch onto something that would give it a little focus, all the while ignoring the obvious solution - story is what makes this game unique in the genre. Story is what hooked people. Story could have been what kept people. And hopefully, story is what is going to bring many players back.

 

Many of my friends are returning already, many of whom had written the game off entirely. Anecdotal, yes, but that means something to me, at least. People who loved the game at release before becoming underwhelmed in subsequent months are very excited to get their fill of BioWare storytelling and, for the first time, we know that more is coming on a regular basis. The other aspects of the game are competent appetizers, but all of that is pointless if there is no main course. There is finally something to look forward to - something uniquely BioWare, and something that cannot be found elsewhere.

 

I'm rambling, so TL;DR: BioWare is finally playing to its key strength, and I believe that bodes very well for the future of this game.

 

All that being said, I also realize that this isn't going to please everyone, especially those who were sated by SW:TOR's operations and PvP offerings. And I realize you guys have been getting the shaft for a while, as BioWare bounced from this concept to that, but I also believe that, now that they've (hopefully) settled on a clear direction, they can finally start paying more attention to areas that haven't received much love in the past while.

 

Precisely how I feel. You will get backlash from the people on the fringe, who are demanding BioWare essentially go back to checking boxes of what they feel an MMO should be (look no further than the whining about companions and tacticals and levelsync for that), but I agree, the game now has an Identity, and a strong one - one I think will bring people back and keep them here.

 

The hardcore won't like it because it alienates them a bit, but Bioware spent too much time trying to find their wheelhouse, when we all knew what their wheelhouse should be - story, and everything in service to the story.

 

Its what makes this different than the jukebox fiasco that got changed due to the outcries - the majority actually like the game as it is now, and its some of the crusty holdovers who are barking loudest, yet are in the minority, which you can tell because its always the same people...

[DarthMaulUK]

I think you have to judge from Biowares poor track record at delivering content. They have promised endless times that their update cycle will be 4 weeks, then 6, then 8 and now as of Tuesday 9 months.

 

Personally, only a fool will find 'value' in paying £9 a month for a 'Netflix style' service where you wait months for an update, burn through it within 3 hours, even ultra casuals, and forced to wait again for the next instalment.

 

I only really pvp, which used to be enjoyable but 4.0 combat changes have been a firm 2 finger salute at balance because you don't need balance for 'story'.

 

And lets not forget, people left this game in massive numbers after launch due to lack of content and if 'story' wasn't enough to keep them playing, I can't see how it will work again this time around, no matter how casual and dumbed down Bioware attempt to make it.

[ZionHalcyon]

I think you have to judge from Biowares poor track record at delivering content. They have promised endless times that their update cycle will be 4 weeks, then 6, then 8 and now as of Tuesday 9 months.

 

Personally, only a fool will find 'value' in paying £9 a month for a 'Netflix style' service where you wait months for an update, burn through it within 3 hours, even ultra casuals, and forced to wait again for the next instalment.

 

I only really pvp, which used to be enjoyable but 4.0 combat changes have been a firm 2 finger salute at balance because you don't need balance for 'story'.

 

And lets not forget, people left this game in massive numbers after launch due to lack of content and if 'story' wasn't enough to keep them playing, I can't see how it will work again this time around, no matter how casual and dumbed down Bioware attempt to make it.

 

Anyone can toss around lame clichés like you just did though -

 

"Only a fool would pay for TV when you can get it over the air for free."

"Only a fool would buy water out of a bottle when you can get it out of your faucet."

"Only a fool would pay for a car and gas when you can just walk for free to wherever you need or else take public transportation."

 

And on, and on and on.

 

The point is, what's foolish to you, isn't foolish to everyone, and you aren't exactly the keeper of all things foolish.

 

Each and every person decides themselves what their time is worth to them, and how much they want to spend occupying it, and if they can afford it, and it makes them happy, then who's the fool, the fool who plays and is happy, or the fool who follows them and works themselves up calling them fools?

[Ferretstalker]

And lets not forget, people left this game in massive numbers after launch due to lack of content and if 'story' wasn't enough to keep them playing, I can't see how it will work again this time around, no matter how casual and dumbed down Bioware attempt to make it.

 

Story can only hold people for so long. Contrary to popular opinion, there are a lot of people that value solid gameplay and interactive multiplayer components. They're the reason Bioware went F2P.

 

I can't argue much about it though. The devs seem committed to what they're creating and it's not my place to disagree with their creative vision, but I can still lament that they chose the "player-driven" (whatever that means, because I'm not driving anything huehuhue) singleplayer route.

[Teladis]

I agree with you op.

 

 

As a tester who pretty much got told by devs and players. "Raiding and Dungeons is a must for end game." I got a smug grin on my face when they at last saw the error of their ways. I love being right, and it only took them how many years to start to understand it?

 

Me: If you are going to have a dungeon focus end game. You need a good LFG tool, that all players and skill levels could enjoy.

Testers: Go back to wow.

Devs: We feel that making groups is part of the joys of MMOs.

 

The developers are clueless, and listen to the wrong feedback for years. At last EA pressure them enough to say. Things have got to change, or else. They at last going back to the roots of what we was promise. A story base MMO.

 

 

 

IT IS ABOUT TIME.

[Qui_Jon]

Like many, I'm one of those people that pops back into the game whenever significant content is released. Shortly thereafter, I drift back into disinterest. I played vehemently at release, with many of my friends, but eventually, one by one, they stopped playing. They went back to other games, explored new ones. And why was this? On paper, SW:TOR ticked all the boxes required for a game trying to compete with the industry standard. I've always maintained that this is precisely why interest in SW:TOR waned so quickly: there was a focus on simply checking those boxes.

 

Unfortunately for SW:TOR, banking their success on checking as many boxes as possible was a doomed endeavour. Content was rushed, and it showed. BioWare continually attempted to shore up their game in order to make sure that they catered to as many possible demographics as possible, and the result was a game that wasn't really made for anyone. It took elements from other games, put their mediocre spin on it, and hoped for the best.

 

In beta, the focus was on story in every single way. Post-release? Raiding content - too much raiding content. People experienced the greatest storytelling available in the genre for 50 levels, then it was back to the "raid or die" mentality that every other MMO does and, quite frankly, many do better. And that's a problem with much of SW:TOR's feature list - it's simply done better elsewhere. Eventually, the game is being developed to cater to the playerbases of other games instead of its own fervent followers.

 

This is why this expansion gives me hope. SW:TOR has spent the past couple years drifting back and forth, trying to latch onto something that would give it a little focus, all the while ignoring the obvious solution - story is what makes this game unique in the genre. Story is what hooked people. Story could have been what kept people. And hopefully, story is what is going to bring many players back.

 

Many of my friends are returning already, many of whom had written the game off entirely. Anecdotal, yes, but that means something to me, at least. People who loved the game at release before becoming underwhelmed in subsequent months are very excited to get their fill of BioWare storytelling and, for the first time, we know that more is coming on a regular basis. The other aspects of the game are competent appetizers, but all of that is pointless if there is no main course. There is finally something to look forward to - something uniquely BioWare, and something that cannot be found elsewhere.

 

I'm rambling, so TL;DR: BioWare is finally playing to its key strength, and I believe that bodes very well for the future of this game.

 

All that being said, I also realize that this isn't going to please everyone, especially those who were sated by SW:TOR's operations and PvP offerings. And I realize you guys have been getting the shaft for a while, as BioWare bounced from this concept to that, but I also believe that, now that they've (hopefully) settled on a clear direction, they can finally start paying more attention to areas that haven't received much love in the past while.

 

And so what will you and your friends do after 8 hours and you have completed all the new story that the game offers. They didn't make class specific story lines as they originally did, once again we all get the same basic story with the same basic choices that mean absolutely nothing because no matter what option in chat you choose the next scene is exactly the same as the other choices.

You might complain about the raiding content or the equipment grind the end game had, but really that is the basic structure of every mmo. Hit max level grind gear, pvp. I have no doubt that just like with hut cartel and SOR that the initial play numbers will go up as players return for a bit to play the new content. But the new content lasts 8 hours IF you are watching every cut scene. And I find it hard to believe that players that had already drifted away from the game are going to stick around and pay a monthly sub for a new 30 minute story every 2-3 months rather then moving back on to another game.

[Jadescythe]

Story wasn't enough to keep players. At launch, players finished story content in 1-2 days and the devs were shocked. They had no clue that 3 years worth of developing story would be consumed in the first week. And here again, we see players have already gone through the story 2+ times in a week because you are only giving them 5 or 6 hours of story content. You need MMO grind to keep players busy between updates if you expect them to continue paying you. Otherwise make the game free and charge for each release. $15 for each set of 3 chapters or $60 for all chapters.

[Teladis]

Story wasn't enough to keep players. At launch, players finished story content in 1-2 days and the devs were shocked. They had no clue that 3 years worth of developing story would be consumed in the first week. And here again, we see players have already gone through the story 2+ times in a week because you are only giving them 5 or 6 hours of story content. You need MMO grind to keep players busy between updates if you expect them to continue paying you. Otherwise make the game free and charge for each release. $15 for each set of 3 chapters or $60 for all chapters.

 

Alliance system is better end game than ops and raids. So we got more to do now than ever before.

[ZionHalcyon]

Story wasn't enough to keep players. At launch, players finished story content in 1-2 days and the devs were shocked. They had no clue that 3 years worth of developing story would be consumed in the first week. And here again, we see players have already gone through the story 2+ times in a week because you are only giving them 5 or 6 hours of story content. You need MMO grind to keep players busy between updates if you expect them to continue paying you. Otherwise make the game free and charge for each release. $15 for each set of 3 chapters or $60 for all chapters.

 

Different dev team now, and the current team fixed the pacing issues that the old game had.

 

Not to mention with level sync, it ensures now that no content is ever irrelevant.

[Bluejayoo]

Story can only hold people for so long.

 

I am going to guess this is why Game of Thrones averages 8 million viewers per episode after 5 years...

[Eillack]

Different dev team now, and the current team fixed the pacing issues that the old game had.

 

Not to mention with level sync, it ensures now that no content is ever irrelevant.

 

That gave me a good chuckle, right there.

[Jadescythe]

Different dev team now, and the current team fixed the pacing issues that the old game had.

 

Not to mention with level sync, it ensures now that no content is ever irrelevant.

 

Level sync does literally nothing besides provide rewards to players for facerolling content. Even at level without being synced, the content is irrelevant.

[Dras_Keto]

I am going to guess this is why Game of Thrones averages 8 million viewers per episode after 5 years...

 

Cause a TV show is totally a valid comparison for an MMO. Wait, Im sorry, a railroad-plot TTG style game with a chat room. Well, actually thats not fair to TTG. You actually get to make choices in their games.

[CelCawdro]

And so what will you and your friends do after 8 hours and you have completed all the new story that the game offers. They didn't make class specific story lines as they originally did, once again we all get the same basic story with the same basic choices that mean absolutely nothing because no matter what option in chat you choose the next scene is exactly the same as the other choices.

You might complain about the raiding content or the equipment grind the end game had, but really that is the basic structure of every mmo. Hit max level grind gear, pvp. I have no doubt that just like with hut cartel and SOR that the initial play numbers will go up as players return for a bit to play the new content. But the new content lasts 8 hours IF you are watching every cut scene. And I find it hard to believe that players that had already drifted away from the game are going to stick around and pay a monthly sub for a new 30 minute story every 2-3 months rather then moving back on to another game.

 

Generic MMO content is tolerable when you're just using it to pass the time between story updates rather than having it be the be-all-end-all focus of the game. There aren't many people out there interested in MMOs that haven't already put in the distance on the loot treadmill and are looking to do so again.

 

You also overestimate how much time the average MMO player puts in to a game these days. Spread that little bit of story across a couple characters, and that's a sizable amount of content. Throw in the warzones and operations on the side to keep people occupied as they wait for the next bit (but not as the focus themselves) as you have a very unique recipe.

 

Again, this change isn't going to be for everyone. But that's the point. SW:TOR finally realized it can't appeal to everyone, and is finally focusing on the one aspect that actually makes it unique in the MMO world. That's a good thing for the health of the game. Just maybe not for people that chose SW:TOR's loot treadmill as their treadmill of choice.

[Jadescythe]

Alliance system is better end game than ops and raids. So we got more to do now than ever before.

 

How so? Because you can run the same Heroic 2 mission with a slightly different boss an infinite number of times? Sounds a lot like grinding out KDY, but I can easily solo it.

[anaz]

I am going to guess this is why Game of Thrones averages 8 million viewers per episode after 5 years...

 

Several issues with that comparison. No one is trying to charge a monthly subscription for GoT nor are hundreds of hours of entertainment expected from it unlike an MMO. When people go through a game of thrones season, they generally watch it once and move on. This is the same issue with swtor, except this an MMO which needs re playable progressive, repeatable content to maintain it. Doing a story is nice but every theme park mmo needs "rides" and for swtor the story is the only ride that they are releasing isn't great for replay ability.

 

It's such a shame too, they could have done so much more. If they focused less on story and innovated on other areas from the start of development of swtor, it could have had legs to stay the distance. They could have done dynamic movement based combat, pod racing, properly fleshed out space components. They could have capitalize more on the nature of each classes. Bounty Hunters could have bad PvP bounty lists on PvP servers, Siths could make power plays in some sort of PvE political hierarchy system. They also had one of the best IPs possible to introduce some really interesting and fun MMO mechanics.

 

But I guess innovation is too much to handle for EA. The story elements albeit quite enjoyable, is more "safe" and doesn't cater to longevity very well unlike more repeatable content.

Edited October 29, 2015 by anaz

[Sarfux]

Sometimes it takes years of soul searching to finally find out who you are!

[DirtyDiggler]

Story + sandbox would make this game best MMO out.

 

Themepark features don't hold people they are boring, dull and lead people crying on the forums for moar once they finish it....Wow killed the MMORPG and made it dull

 

They should of invested in adding sandbox along with the story.

 

Give PVP bases to fight over, make crafting meaningful, heck they could of redone the strongholds and added a new open world for the new faction where you could of had a world like SWG with player houses in the world and guild bases ect.

 

That is the kind of stuff that holds people and with sandbox in place people wouldnt be bored waiting on more story...

Edited October 29, 2015 by DirtyDiggler

[anaz]

Story + sandbox would make this game best MMO out.

 

Themepark features don't hold people they are boring, dull and lead people crying on the forums for moar once they finish it....Wow killed the MMORPG and made it dull

 

They should of invested in adding sandbox along with the story.

 

Give PVP bases to fight over, make crafting meaningful, heck they could of redone the strongholds and added a new open world for the new faction where you could of had a world like SWG with player houses in the world and guild bases ect.

 

That is the kind of stuff that holds people and with sandbox in place people wouldnt be bored waiting on more story...

 

So more like the old Star Wars: Galaxies, then.

[Emersyn]

TL;DR: BioWare is finally playing to its key strength, and I believe that bodes very well for the future of this game.

 

It needs to focus on the Story Aspect- It is what BioWare can do the BEST in the MMORPG game - it doesn't do questing the best, doesn't do raiding the best, doesn't do pvp the best -

 

WHY ARE YOU FOCUSING ON YOUR WEAKNESSES? Focus on strengths! Focus on what you can do the best!

 

That's what this expansion is doing. They must have read Jim Collins' book 'Good to Great' -

[CelCawdro]

It needs to focus on the Story Aspect- It is what BioWare can do the BEST in the MMORPG game - it doesn't do questing the best, doesn't do raiding the best, doesn't do pvp the best -

 

WHY ARE YOU FOCUSING ON YOUR WEAKNESSES? Focus on strengths! Focus on what you can do the best!

 

That's what this expansion is doing. They must have read Jim Collins' book 'Good to Great' -

 

I'm not sure if you're arguing with me, here. If so, you restated my point.

[Emersyn]

I'm not sure if you're arguing with me, here. If so, you restated my point.

 

Lol - no I'm fully agreeing with you in a confusing way (its how i do most things)

 

SWTOR needs to focus on Story above all else - it will succeed much more

[Transcendent]

Different dev team now, and the current team fixed the pacing issues that the old game had.

 

Not to mention with level sync, it ensures now that no content is ever irrelevant.

 

Yes, different dev team now, that have already shown they have the capability to let content dates "slip" or just simply not deliver them at all (hey, "better than cross server!").

 

You're deluding yourself if you think Level Sync doesn't make content irrelevant. It's made the rest of the game aside from the few hours of story completely irrelevant for those of us who want nothing to do with it.

 

You can all keep telling yourselves how great that it is that BioWare have returned to story telling as a primary focus, as someone else mentioned in a different way, without the hook being in the game with the other content, why would you think players will continuously subscribe to the game? For the monthly story updates? Well you can if you want to.

 

Here is another cliche for you, "a fool and his money are soon parted".